Pet Peeve

[A. Nony Mouse]

Mrs. Harshman, please leave too.

I suggest that you sell your home and do not come any here any more too. Obviously you are blind to what goes on around you.
Did you ever consider that some people stay here or come here in spite of the problems and not because of them?

The Dominican Republic does not need people like you. It needs people who have the courage to point out problems and suggest a better way

 

[Susanne]

Re: Neverending question...(Hillbilly

Hillbilly - as always - has provided insight and nuance to this thread.

It is so easy to stereotype and judge people from a very limited experience (such as a holiday at a resort) and comparing to how this would be in your home country. Easy solutions ("they should just work harder and get rid of their culture") show ignorance rather than useful suggestions.

I may be reading more into some of these messages than really exists, but it strikes me that more than one show signs of bitterness from the fact that you have come to the DR to make a new life (and money) but now it is not as easy. Well, did you check out things like mentality, educational levels, culture etc. before you went? Were you ready to follow the mentality of your new country? If not, I understand your bitterness but don't blame the country.

Instead of getting all insulted try to help instead. Instead of despairing of the lack of qualified labour, help to educate. Put pressure on the government, for instance by uniting with others with similar problems. The DR is eager to get foreign investments. Have you thought of telling the government how unlikely that is to happen if the level of education is not raised?

Just a few suggestions - maybe inappropriate, in which case I apologize.

Regards,
Susanne

 

[Bobs]

Re: Neverending question...(Hillbilly

Thanx Susanne ! Muchas Gracias .

 

[Duarte]

Bunch of lazy Dominicans...read on

WOW...Them dominican people must be truly lazy...I mean imagine that. Reject a job that pays the whopping amount of $4000 pesos a month. I mean can you imagine how qualified people could reject such an enormous salary? It's inconceivable how these people could be so lazy as to not want to work for $8.13 USD A DAY. If I could ever find a job paying that much money I would take it in a heartbeat. Imagine all I could do with all that money. I could even have some extra cheese with my whopper...I could eat an extra slice of salamy with my platanos...I would be so thankful that this foreigner came to my country to pay me $8.13 USD a day...Boy am I glad I went to college though, because otherwise I would never be able to get such a job...I mean I would be so unqualified...

 

[Duck]

Re: Bunch of lazy Dominicans...read on

$US 8.13 / day is about $US 7.00 a day more than someone in Usbekistan, Kirgistan or elsewhere in the GUS makes on average. There are not however, tons of tourists around spending "a lot" of money for leisure (and thereby leaving the impression that life is always so where foreigners come from), so these people do work for - yes - $1 / day.

You can't compare apples to oranges, and RDP 4.000 / month is still 30% more than a Soldier or police officer (a soldier last month told me he was making about 2.800 / month - please correct me someone if I'm way wrong) in th DR makes and is not bad in relativ terms - coming from a foreigner or a dominican employer (what's the difference there anyway? Should foreigners pay higher wages than dominican employers, and if so on what basis??).

 

[Duarte]

Re: Bunch of lazy Dominicans...read on

True some people make less than $4,000 but at the same time you cannot ask for well educated, qualified people at that price. It's just not gonna happen. Not in the DR, Uzbekistan, Kirjistan or anywhere else...If that's all you're willing to pay then be happy with what you get...You want well educated capable people then I'll work for you, but you're gonna have to mortgage that business to pay my salary...

 

[Tom]

Your salary

What type of mortgage would you anticipate on a hamburger stand?

Tom

 

[DR-VETERAN]

Re: Bunch of lazy Dominicans...read on/Duarte

you see that's the big problem.the good and qualified people do have work and always find work and believe me they earn a lot more than rd$ 4,000,00.i know people as employees who earn as much as rd$ 25,000,00 per month.no they are not bank directors.
now what's the difference to the rest of the bunch?
try responsability,better education,positive energy,interest on work,identification with product or company,desire to improve themselves,seriousness,willing to work overtime and maybe on sundays if necesary and a lot of other things the rest of the bunch just don't seem to come up with.
before you earn a high salary you start way down and work yourself up.this means you start with a small salary and earn what you deserve.
no matter here, in the states or usbekistan or anywhere else.

your posts definitly show the lack of experience with the laborforce and it's problems here.
besides employed a dominican today who will earn around rd$ 15,000,00 starting salary per month.guess why!

 

[billy jones]

Re: Neverending question. No easy answers

I have been visiting Buenos Aires d' Herrera for 20 years now. Have NEVER seen a newspaper in anyone's home. They're not even sold for miles around. I carry my own reading material. It is a sad situation. The mindset must be changed. I love the DR and its people, but I can't take it more than a week at a time. I do not like getting into political discussions there. Therefore, I eat, I drink, and I laugh with my favorite people. ...and I can't wait to return to DR. God Bless you all.

 

[Duarte]

Re: Bunch of lazy Dominicans...read on/Duarte

OK I give up!! It's obvious that you will never get it. You cannot ask for qualified people at the price you're willing to pay ($4,000 pesos) Since most qualified people already have a job making more than that, then doesn't it follow that if you want to atract these people then you should be paying a better salary than they're currently making. Nobody is going to leave their job to take a pay cut, unless forced to do it. FYI I happen to have a lot of experience with the Dominican labor force. I've been on both sides of the fence. I've been both employee and employer. What you need is to hire a Dominican HR director and let him/her handle the hiring, because it's obvious you don't understand the culture...

 

[DR-VETERAN]

Re: Bunch of lazy Dominicans...read on/Duarte

in my initial post you could read about them jumping from one job to next with long unemployment times in between.also the comment was with the unemployed and not the employed.please note this little difference.
as you seem to have great understanding and knowledge of labor matter so i like to consult you to tell me how much to pay for somebody which represents him/herself as sales person with the following or similar curriculum.
age between 18-22 worked 3 month as promotora on a whisky stand in a supermarket.8 month unemployed after this.worked 5 month as vendedora in a shop.has not worked after this anymore.

even worse somebody with no job education or any work experience at all.

how about the 18 year old which had a child with 17 and changes jobs every 6-8 weeks.who loves to talk with everybody and loves even more to forget about work and gives you a bad face when you call the attention to which you should be entitled to do so.
quien paga manda.

also 80 calls and only 25 show up for the interview.to much effort going to the interview?

tell me how much you pay for starters?what incentives?
so are you still an employer here?

 

[Kodiak beer]

Re: Neverending question. No easy answers

This all sounds very familiar. I've heard it said about Mexico, the Phillipines, Jamaica (insert favorite 3rd world nation here).

The problem is not with the people themselves, it is with the type of governments typical of developing nations. You don't develop a national work ethic when success is penalized. I'm more familiar with Mexican politics than DR, but I'm sure the same rules apply. When a local opens a small business of some kind or attains some sort of success, he is immediately assailed from all sides by the police, the local government and political party, the various health and welfare functionaries, labor reps, etc, etc, - all holding out their hand for "the bite" - Mordida.
The more successful he becomes, the bigger "bite" he has to pay.

People see this - they know. They look around to see who IS successful, who has the big house, the new car, etc, and lo and behold it is the police chief who has the expensive home on a tiny salary - the mayor, the bureaucrat...
And there is no easy way out of this for developing nations. The governments are typically in the control of one party, who do nothing but plunder whatever wealth they can from the economy.

When hard labor is rewarded by success, people respond accordingly. When hard labor is punished, people also respond accordingly. National cynicism is justified under such a regime.

 

[Rafael Diaz]

"Get a Life"/Maria/ME strikes again!!! *DC*

 

[Duarte]

Re: Bunch of lazy Dominicans...read on/Duarte

As noted before, is obvious you don't understand the Dominican culture and the issues going on there. Like I said...Hire a Dominican HR person and let him/her handle the hiring...A few things to consider:
-In the DR when people tell you at 7:00 they really mean at 8:00
-In a country with such high unemployment level, you will see a lot of holes im people's resumes
-Hardly any training programs exist in the country
-Just like in the US anybody with less than a college degree usually does not know how to put together a resume
-Most people who have at least a high school diploma should be commended, given the hardships you have to go through to get to that level at least...

 

[Duck]

Tom & Duarte

Tom - Exactly!

Duarte - I don't think this string is referring to specialists. Low skilled labor earnes lower wages all over the world.

Can't imagine mortgaging my business for you or anyone else - but maybe that's why its working. I can't deal with people who say "7" and mean "8" (OK, if it's 7:15, who cares) and need 8 hours to do 4 hours worth of work.

 

[DR-VETERAN]

Re: Bunch of lazy Dominicans...read on/Duarte

you really did not answer the the post but anyway.you know what is funny about your suggestion? is that to hire employees i have to hire an employee.do you know how many dominican business owners have the same problems?big ones and small ones.
you would expect them to be on top of that problem but they are not.so it's not a cultural thing as you like to put it.and i do know very well what is going on.do you?

coming 1 hour late?may be ok on private ocassion.for work it is not acceptable.if the employee comes late than he needs to be taught to come on time as he likes his salary paid on time.
correct?
there is no problem of teaching this unless the employee rejects what is being taught on purpose.than do i have the right to call his attention?anywhere in the world i do have the right!

here?i may not have the right because he is dominican?or because he is "poor"?or because he isn't very bright or because...?

the kind of negativ working attitude we try to discuss here is also one of the contributing factors that the country is not in the shape it could be.

now coming back to may salary question:you critisize the rd$ 4,000,00 (which is more than many others pay).let's asume i get only 50% worth of work and attention and buena voluntad.would i get 100% if i pay 8,000,00 or do i have to pay 15,000,00 or more?
if you pay that person a salary of an developed country would it have the same quantity output and quality in the same time?
just let me know your experiences or thoughts on this.
maybe i learn something.

 

[CES]

Re: These posts are WAY too hard... (NOT

Unos de los problemas que afectan a los dominicanos es que las compa?ias que pagan buenos su eldos no emplean a nadie que no sean jovenes y bien parecidos con la jubilacion a una temprana edad.

~ ~ ~ "una Cibae?a"

 

[CES]

Re: Neverending question...(Susanne

>>> "Just a few suggestions - maybe inappropriate, in which case I apologize." <<<

Dear Susanne,

No need to apologize, your observations are 'spot on'. Mrs. CES sez', in her opinion, the work ethic has changed considerably from 1960 when she was starting out in the business world as secretary to the Director of Agriculture, and just newly graduated at that! (See una Cibae?as' post: http://dr1.com/board/index.cgi?read=50476 ) It's undeniable that there are many things wrong with "some" Dominicans view of the employer/ employee situation.

Best Regards,

. . . CES

 

[catherine]

i found your statements to be of some interest because im american born dominican and i wanna move out there so bad im only 23 and so i wanna try it but one of my motive is because i wanna help the native there although employment is scarce and i hear it is not easy to live here at all. I feel that whatever i do there will be much more rewarding than what i can do here in ny becuase the people are much more needy there and in turn more appreciative im just trying to find out how i can be there for the people and be able to live at least an average life out there and be comfortable in the least possible way

 

[catherine]

Re: poor dominicans?

well i just started reading the strands to this arguement and let me just say that i know i can make good money here in the US as afordham grad and with my experience i was born in us and travel to Dr all the time and at this point in my life wish i can move to dr and work there and give up all the luxury i have in the us to move and help a society that i know is more needy and aprreciative. and for the record im not lazy or trying to get an easy way out i dont think that is what u would call me and i dont expect any special treatment cause im willing to move out there either i just want a decent job out there that ican live on and eat and help native dominicans cause i love it down there including the people they are poor but much more warm hearted than the people in NY
that is for sure