Propane gas conversion review (long post)

[cobraboy]

Now, if I had to take a guess based on my amateur experience tuning modern gasoline engines, I would say that the premature death is due to the lack of lubrication from LPG, as opposed to gasoline, and exposure to engine knock over a prolonged period of time. Keep in mind, that engine knock has to be really severe before it becomes audible to the human ear, which is the tuning instrument of choice for the mechanics doing installation of these kits in DR.

Absolute fact. Knock is detonation, an explosion of air/fuel putting huge stress on bearings, valves, pistons and rings. And gasoline DOES have lubricating properties, especially in the upper engine around the valves. Recall tetraethyl lead was used for top end lubrication before being banned as a polluter; that's how we got "unleaded" in the first place...

That would explain the premature death of motors, especially the top end..

 

[Hipocrito Mejia]

So where is a piggyback mapable ECU available?

I would think that one can be sourced from Europe as a replacement part. However, keep in mind that the systems installed in DR also lack the injectors.

does a chassis dyno in the DR even exist (we used them for the fine tuning of 500+hp big block V-8's we'd stuff into our 2200lb. Cobra reproductions)?

From my limited talks with other car enthusiasts in DR, no. The best that you can hope for is some road tuning, which can yield good results, but is more time consuming.

Now, where's that long stretch of straight road? :rambo:

 

[cobraboy]

From my limited talks with other car enthusiasts in DR, no. The best that you can hope for is some road tuning, which can yield good results, but is more time consuming.

Hmmmmm....I smell a new market...:ninja:

 

[Robert]

So where is a piggyback mapable ECU available? And does a chassis dyno in the DR even exist (we used them for the fine tuning of 500+hp big block V-8's we'd stuff into our 2200lb. Cobra reproductions, the genesis of my handle)?

Apparently BP Autocentro in Herrera, Santo Domingo has a one of the only dyno's here. It's popular and they have regular dyno days.

Piggyback fuel controllers etc.
Piggy-back Fuel Controllers :: Engine Tuning Resources & Tips.

Below is a link to the most popular petrol head site in the DR.
http://www.razine.com/

 

[Hipocrito Mejia]

It's not a cheap piece of equipment.

Around here (NJ), I pay $120/hr because it's a friend's shop. The real going rate is $100 for 3 pulls, and $160/hr.

Piggyback fuel controllers are available from many different sources. I've used some made in Japan with excellent results (365hp out of a 4cyl), but keep in mind that this still does nothing to control timing. You would also have to get a set of LPG injectors, and those would have to be compatible with your fuel controller.

I think that we need to figure out how to source a complete system from Europe.

 

[rubio_higuey]

As far as LPG-after-elections issue is concerned:

1) I do not think LPG will be abandoned absolutely for all the cars. The results would be huelgas by transport guys and huge raise in prices charged to customers on conchos, gauguitas, and taxis. It would be a revolt.

2) If LPG will be allowed only for transport guys, the black market with ID cards will be set up, or clandestine filling stations. Do you think the infrastructure built over years by propagas, Credigas, Tropigas and other gas distributors will be able to be supported only by household and transport use? No way. The revolt from big empresarios...

3) One has to also consider this is a very bribery-prone country, so bribes will ensure you get your tanks filled. In either option 1 or 2, imagine 100 "non-allowed" cars pass through a busy filling stations. Charge 100 pesos "fee" each one to fill up, you will get at least 10.000 pesos per day, which is 300,000 pesos per month. The bribes will ensure the Industria y Comercio guys write down the fill-ups as household fillups, of course they will give their share to their bosses, and bosses to their bossess. Imagine the hundreds of busy fillings tations throughout the DR, and thousands of less busy ones... I see lots of new jeepetas on the horizon...

4) Even if LPG is sold to regular car users at non-subsidized prices, there will be black market and bribery market open. The filling guy just needs to get some of these ID cards (which should be not a problem for many of them) and just charge the regular shopper subsidized price swiping the card for him, and charging him a small fee. The fee is then devided along the chain.

 

[cobraboy]

rubio, are you suggesting that propane will be banned for non-commercial vehicles? Or that it would be available, but at the non-subsidized price?

 

[Adrian Bye]

Is there a certain level of vehicles you should not have this done to? I have a nissan murano, its in decent condition and I'd rather not trash the engine by doing this.. The cost for me to install a new engine is probably quite a bit more expensive.

 

[Rocky]

Is there a certain level of vehicles you should not have this done to? I have a nissan murano, its in decent condition and I'd rather not trash the engine by doing this.. The cost for me to install a new engine is probably quite a bit more expensive.

That's what I figure too.
Replacing my Lexus engine would cost a bit more than pocketchange.
These guys with the publicos put in any type/brand of engine in to replace the old ones.
They know all the tricks in the book for modifying any small engine into any small car.
To get good conditon used engines for our vehicles, we'd definitely be looking in the thousands.

 

[Tamborista]

Replacing my Lexus engine would cost a bit more than pocketchange.

Why wouldn't you replace it with the original Camry engine?

Tambo' make joke

 

[Rocky]

Why wouldn't you replace it with the original Camry engine?

Tambo' make joke

I've never looked into it, but there is a possibility that the Camry 6 Cyl is the same as the Lexus, although I doubt it, but if it is the same, I bet it ain't cheap either.
Little 1.6 litre 4 cyl engines are way way cheaper to replace.

 

[augustus]

All I know is I can't wait to move down there to have one put in any vehicle I own and I've had this in mind for about 3yrs now, since riding in a friends large chevy caprice in Santo Domingo and I could smell the gas but now and then I could taste the savings.........Mmmmmmmmmmmm.....Cheapest mechanics in the world, I had an alternator rebuilt on a friends JEEP THAT i BORROWED IN SOSUA last September, the mechanic charged me $45.00 US and installed new fan belt while I waited, AZB, keep up the good work and pm me what engine you have and maybe I can put 1 or 2 in my container when I move there.........Engines here in Philly are cheap $250.00 US, mechanics are not $700.00 to $1,300 US for installation and they will still keep you on hold for months................

 

[Adrian Bye]

That's what I figure too.
Replacing my Lexus engine would cost a bit more than pocketchange.
These guys with the publicos put in any type/brand of engine in to replace the old ones.
They know all the tricks in the book for modifying any small engine into any small car.
To get good conditon used engines for our vehicles, we'd definitely be looking in the thousands.

Good point.

Its a pity not more people know about this stuff on DR1. This thread is enlightening to me in terms of the knowledge gap between DR1 readers and the middle to high class Dominicans who live here.

 

[AZB]

Since we have moved on from the technical mambo jambo I will post again.
Adrian, I have seen people with expensive SUVs with gas systems. All you have to do is go to a nice gas pump example: next to pricemart and wait there outside for 10 mins. You would be surprised to see what types of cars, SUVs are equipped with propane systems. Its just people with nice SUVs would never admit to having a propane system in their cars. This is sort of like a pride thing. People actually are embarrassed to tell people they have gas system in their car. Hahahaha.
I have seen your SUV and its a nice one. Now that I have read such bad reviews of gas systems on this thread, I would be afraid to put one in my car if I had a murano.
Good luck.
AZB

 

[Robert]

Good point.

Its a pity not more people know about this stuff on DR1. This thread is enlightening to me in terms of the knowledge gap between DR1 readers and the middle to high class Dominicans who live here.

Ignorance is bliss!!

Just spoke to my buddy at Santo Domingo motors, who has seen a few gas conversions as their service shop manager.

Advice, don't do it, unless you get it done right and it's not cheap here to do it right. Most LPG shops here will usually rip out the old ECU, so you loose any cruise control, traction control, stability control, diagnostics and in some cases ABS breaking ability (model dependent).

Like Rocky, he said the publicos do it becasue it makes sense, it's cheap, the cars are basically junk and they are driving around the city which is perfect for LPG.

I'll investigate a little further and see who are the "better" installers and if they even use the newer multi-point injector kits with their own ECU's.

 

[Adrian Bye]

Thanks for the pointers guys.

Maybe its better to have a cheaper SUV or car and get it running with propane.. Consider it more like a disposable car. I'm tired of paying RD$2000 to fill up each time I go to Cabarete. Paying RD$300 is cheaper than the bus for door to door transport.

 

[AZB]

Maybe its better to have a cheaper SUV or car and get it running with propane.. Consider it more like a disposable car. I'm tired of paying RD$2000 to fill up each time I go to Cabarete. Paying RD$300 is cheaper than the bus for door to door transport.

Very good idea. maybe some people might consider buying an old corolla or honda and use it for long distance driving with propane tank. the nice car, save it for local dates and night out in town.
AZB

 

[Hipocrito Mejia]

You would be surprised to see what types of cars, SUVs are equipped with propane systems. Its just people with nice SUVs would never admit to having a propane system in their cars. This is sort of like a pride thing. People actually are embarrassed to tell people they have gas system in their car.

So true! There are luxury vehicles running on LPG, but those people are ashamed to admit it because it hurts their standing among others. People think that if you have the money for the car, then you have the money for gas, no matter how expensive it is. Running such a vehicle on LPG lowers their status.

I have seen your SUV and its a nice one. Now that I have read such bad reviews of gas systems on this thread, I would be afraid to put one in my car if I had a murano.

Hopefully, someone will figure out how to address this need. There's nothing wrong with installing an LPG conversion system on such a vehicle, or any vehicle for that matter, as long as it is a complete system, and it is properly installed and tuned. Again, as it stands now, nobody on this board is aware of such an option being available in DR.

 

[cobraboy]

Ignorance is bliss!!

Just spoke to my buddy at Santo Domingo motors, who has seen a few gas conversions as their service shop manager.

Advice, don't do it, unless you get it done right and it's not cheap here to do it right. Most LPG shops here will usually rip out the old ECU, so you loose any cruise control, traction control, stability control, diagnostics and in some cases ABS breaking ability (model dependent).

Like Rocky, he said the publicos do it becasue it makes sense, it's cheap, the cars are basically junk and they are driving around the city which is perfect for LPG.

I'll investigate a little further and see who are the "better" installers and if they even use the newer multi-point injector kits with their own ECU's.

Hopefully, someone will figure out how to address this need. There's nothing wrong with installing an LPG conversion system on such a vehicle, or any vehicle for that matter, as long as it is a complete system, and it is properly installed and tuned. Again, as it stands now, nobody on this board is aware of such an option being available in DR.

I'd be VERY interested in the proper system.

I know a little more than a shade tree mechanic, and I can see how an imporperly installed LPG system can create havoc with the sophistocated electro-mechanical systems.

I'm all ears.

 

[Rocky]

Here's an example of conversion prices abroad.
Prins LPG Conversion Network - Conversion Prices
For a small 4 cyl.
1,500 Brit pounds = $3,012.60 US = 102,127 pesos.
The price alone proves to me that these DR 20K conversions are no good.
Apart from saving money on fuel, I expect that everything else suffers, from performance to durability.