re: Dominican Elite "Revisited"

A

azb

Guest
Re: Another question for TW

To onions and carrots.
You would find more people living on credit card in USA than any other part of this world. In USA, everything anyone buys is almost always bought on credit. Most cars are always financed. So what are you talking about when you say dominicans live on credit cards? More people buy things on cash here than I have seen in USA (reason being, the interest rate is sky high).
I have seen more yuppies in NYC alone who live on credit cards to support their fake lifestyle than you would see in the whole country of DR.
You think the fraud and corruption doesn't exist in USA and in other european countries? You don't seem to know that in this day of age, some of the biggest bank robberies have occured through the electronic transactions via internet. I am not even talking about credit card frauds nor other types of scams what plague american business everyday. The top banks are not even secured in this internet age.
Everyday you read how city employees have taken bribes to get favors done ex: look at president clinton who pardoned a fugitive who was not only wanted for selling illegal arms to iran but was also wanted for spying for the state of israel against USA. Thats Marc rich.... american citizen and also israeli citizen for being jewish. didn't you see how many justice department officials were pissed off at the president's decision? You didn't smell a rat there? Now this is going on at a presidential level. Need I tell you more?
the truth is that you are a dominican who like to stand tall by stepping on the heads of the other less fortunate ones around you. You think you are better than the rest because you have some education and stemming from a wealthy family but even at your best you sound like a "one eyed prince amongst the blinds".
be proud to be a dominican and stop degrading your own people.
have a nice day.
 
M

Maria Obetsanov

Guest
Re: Jealousy and hatred

Those that really have cash Go to THE HILTON or eat a the Cub Santo Domingo or Espana they do have facility for the club members and their guest. We are working class in the US, I am More a DOminican than some of these braggards. I believed that goes for class. I consider working class if someone in your household works to bring an income in Last time i check my husband made more than the DR president per year. Money has its place, to be enjoyed and invested not waved around. The Young people on the Board are waving their Daddys' money. I bet they been told to get a job by their Father or mothers, they are a bit high maintainance with the showing off.
 
C

CJ

Guest
Charlie,I think that a "millionaire" would be best defined as someone that had an net income that would be equivilent to having an investment portfolio of 1million dollars U.S...say you had a $15,000.00 U.S. per month income, I believe that you could live the life style of a "millionaire"...if you had an income of $1,500.00 U.S....and live in the D.R. you could easily be mistaken for a "millionaire"
 
O

Onions and carrots

Guest
Re: Another question for TW

My objective is not to look down on the poor Dominicans around me.I am a self avowed leftist who defends the poor and truly respects their opinion.I wish the poor in the DR could live like the poor in the USA. Any poor schlep(janitor,dishwasher,etc) in the States and Canada can own all the trappings of the upper middle class of the DR(Cds,DVDs,new cars,new home,fancy clothing,etc) cause of the inherent market structure.Yet in the DR the poor can barely eat twice a day.

What I do look down upon is the disgusting pride evident in some Dominicans. They want to flaunt whatever they obtained by means of credit.Yet it doesn't end there.They also want those who have less than they do to feel inferior to them. I've seen it all the time in the DR. At times I've corrected these individuals and asked them what do they gain from making others feel inferior.I feel its correct to degrade and humiliate those wannabes on credit cause they do it to those less fortunate than them.

These people show no type of respect,remorse and compassion fro people living in "barrancones and canadas".I would never be "capaz" to dgrade these poor people. It breaks my heart to see material and psychological abuse they go thru everyday. Young girls from poor families ahving no other choice than to shack up with a decrepit old geezer in order to better her lot in life.THATS NOT RIGHT! Thats what burns me inside.

So, if you gathered anything else other than this it wasn't my intention.
 
J

Joachim

Guest
Re: Another question for TW

Well said I felt the same way when I was there.
 
M

Maria Obetsanov

Guest
Re: Kennedys dont flaunt MONEY??

I have not seen any KENNEDY living a a poor area of town. Whenever you see a KENNEDY hause its usually in an exclusive , or Private ESTATE/compaund THEY SURE FOUNT THEIR MONEY somehow they manage to do with a class, that very few have Here. Old money usually act "sensillo", without pride or arrogance, thus appearing not to flant their money.
 
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Ase

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Dumb-inican elite

The problem with the Dominican elite is that they usually live well above their means even if they have 100 million pesos.There behavior is reminiscent of the Spanish royalty of the 15 century.

These people make me sick.American rich folk or most of them live well below their means and have organizations to help the poor.Check Bill Gates and how he snubbed Leo Fdez with his cockamamy idea of a Cyber-park.He also snubbed Pres. Bush with his idea of removing some tax on the wealthy.He said that po' folk need help. Look at the Kennedys, you see these families have class.They don't flaunt riches,RESPECT the poor and VALUE their opinions.

Now their Dumb-inican colleagues have a DISDAIN for the poor, EXPLOIT them with subsistence wages and REJECT any ideas they have.

Haven't you noticed when Pres. CLINTON visited other lands how he had a humble countenance with an amicable disposition.He welcomed everyones opinion esp. the poor.

Death to that hierarchical and demeaning attitude demonstrated by elitists.
Death to the humiliation of the poor.
Long live the Onion and Carrots mentality

Onions and carrots​

Although many latin countries have cultures that love to show off what they have dealt with scarcity, lack as a results of colonialism. I have a friend from Cuba, nice person however, had issues collecting things, and only wears name brand in other words, pretty flashy and excessive. I asked them why were they this way?. They explained that back in Cuba they did not have much and now that they are well off they love to have the things that they would only have dreamed off. Here is "Onions and carrots", praising colonizers and their descents who's origine of wealth is questionable! not sure about the Kennedys so I cannot include them. These people have had an advantage over all other groups of people for centuries. They can possible have benefitted from generational wealth, some of this wealth can come from slavery. They were strategically given cheap loans and grants to own their land. They are given opportunities when it comes to businesses. It is well know and documented that the USA has not been fair in practices when it comes to the European Americans and all other groups. It is so easy to judge without adding all other factors. I think that you sound more dumb than anything... sir!
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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Onions and carrots​

Although many latin countries have cultures that love to show off what they have dealt with scarcity, lack as a results of colonialism. I have a friend from Cuba, nice person however, had issues collecting things, and only wears name brand in other words, pretty flashy and excessive. I asked them why were they this way?. They explained that back in Cuba they did not have much and now that they are well off they love to have the things that they would only have dreamed off. Here is "Onions and carrots", praising colonizers and their descents who's origine of wealth is questionable! not sure about the Kennedys so I cannot include them. These people have had an advantage over all other groups of people for centuries. They can possible have benefitted from generational wealth, some of this wealth can come from slavery. They were strategically given cheap loans and grants to own their land. They are given opportunities when it comes to businesses. It is well know and documented that the USA has not been fair in practices when it comes to the European Americans and all other groups. It is so easy to judge without adding all other factors. I think that you sound more dumb than anything... sir!
What are you tslking about? Most upper class Dominicans got their wealth after Trujillo. Of those that made it before, a large chunk did it during the Trujillo dictatorship. Upper class Dominicans of colonial origins are few in comparison. As if that's not enough, the characteristics of even the Dominican upper class from colonial times is a very modest existence, in many cases downright poverty. That goes back to the 17th century which is known as "The Century of Misery." Things got so bad for the Dominican upper class that classicism was bssed on peoples last names as the average lifestyle of a Dominican upper class family and those of the everyday people wasn't that different. Churches began to conduct masses in the very early hours of the morning because it was common for upper class ladies to not have a proper dress to attend mass. The darkness hide their poverty.

People need to stop applying ideas that may be appropriate to the USA to the DR. The premise isn't the same. A good example is slavery which was very different the one practiced in the DR in colonial times from the one practiced in the USA during and after colonial times. To mention one difference, the typical slave owner in the USA owned many along with their families. The slaves were the ones that did all the work. In the DR, the average slave owner had a handful, 5 tops in most cases. They were so few that slave owners got to know their slaves by name, it was common for the slaves to sit on the same table as the slave owner's family and everyone eat at the sametime. Slaves only did part of the work as more often the slave owner's themselves had to work the land along with the slaves. All of that and more, which began to take place in the 17th century, was due to the extreme poverty that affected everybody.

Even attitudes towards Haitians before they became their own country tended to be very linient, at times them receiving support for their revolution against the French. Things got so amicable, that the Dominican army* even accepted and incorporated many of the Haitians that fled into the Spanish part of the island early in the Haitian Revolution. The most notable was Jean François. In 1793 c. there was an invasion of Fort Dauphin (now Fort Liberté, Haiti.) The invasion was headed by the Dominican army** and the runaway Haitians that went to the Spanish part, this included Jean François. The invasion started in Dajabón and while the generals and the soldiers were not involved in the massacre of the French that lived in that town, leaving that to the Haitians that accompanied them with Jean François among them, non of the generals and soldiers gave help to any of the French that went to them as they were being pursued by their former slaves. The support towards the Haitians had reached that level. Attitudes began to change with the invasion of Toussaint Loverture in 1801 and of Jean Jacques Dessalines in 1805 which basically cemented an anti-Haitian feeling on much of the population due to the cruelties commited against the civilian population, even campesinos that lived scattered between the towns, by the Haitian soldiers on the others of Jean Jacques Dessalines. Most of the Dominicans alive today descend from the survivors of that attempted widespread massacre, the ones the manage to escape from the towns and lived in the woods. In La Vega almost the entire population that fled went into the mountains. That's when and how Jarabacoa was founded.

Something like that never happened in the USA. You can't simply apply USA concepts to the DR without taking into account that they have an extremely different history.

The average Dominican has a lineage that goes back to colonial times and even beyond. You will find more "colonials" among the average population than among the upper class. A good number of Dominicans have become darker and blacker after the country was formed mostly to to natural growth, further mixture with every generation and migration from Haiti, the English Caribbean and the African Americans thst migrated in the 1820's and settled everywhere.***


* Then the Spanish army, but Spaniards from the Iberian peninsula often were the generals and some of the soldiers that were from the Canary Islands, the rest were Dominicans; the same happened in Puerto Rico, Cuba and elsewhere in the Spanish Empire. The Spanish army in those places was composed mostly by locals.

** One of the generals had the last name Montalvo. During Danilo Medina's government there was a high ranking minister with that same last name. He also has similarities in looks with Antonio del Monte y Tejeda, another Dominican from colonial times. In both instances I was left wondering...

*** Today the colony of African Americans that settled in Samaná are the most notables because there was hardly any Dominican population when they settled there. Elsewhere in the DR the original African American populations "melted" as they took up Dominicsn men and women for partners. If there would had been a sizeable population in Samaná, the samething would had happened there.
 

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bob saunders

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What are you tslking about? Most upper class Dominicans got their wealth after Trujillo. Of those that made it before, a large chunk did it during the Trujillo dictatorship. Upper class Dominicans of colonial origins are few in comparison. As if that's not enough, the characteristics of even the Dominican upper class from colonial times is a very modest existence, in many cases downright poverty. That goes back to the 17th century which is known as "The Century of Misery." Things got so bad for the Dominican upper class that classicism was bssed on peoples last names as the average lifestyle of a Dominican upper class family and those of the everyday people wasn't that different. Churches began to conduct masses in the very early hours of the morning because it was common for upper class ladies to not have a proper dress to attend mass. The darkness hide their poverty.

People need to stop applying ideas that may be appropriate to the USA to the DR. The premise isn't the same. A good example is slavery which was very different the one practiced in the DR in colonial times from the one practiced in the USA during and after colonial times. To mention one difference, the typical slave owner in the USA owned many along with their families. The slaves were the ones that did all the work. In the DR, the average slave owner had a handful, 5 tops in most cases. They were so few that slave owners got to know their slaves by name, it was common for the slaves to sit on the same table as the slave owner's family and everyone eat at the sametime. Slaves only did part of the work as more often the slave owner's themselves had to work the land along with the slaves. All of that and more, which began to take place in the 17th century, was due to the extreme poverty that affected everybody.

Even attitudes towards Haitians before they became their own country tended to be very linient, at times them receiving support for their revolution against the French. Things got so amicable, that the Dominican army* even accepted and incorporated many of the Haitians that fled into the Spanish part of the island early in the Haitian Revolution. The most notable was Jean François. In 1793 c. there was an invasion of Fort Dauphin (now Fort Liberté, Haiti.) The invasion was headed by the Dominican army** and the runaway Haitians that went to the Spanish part, this included Jean François. The invasion started in Dajabón and while the generals and the soldiers were not involved in the massacre of the French that lived in that town, leaving that to the Haitians that accompanied them with Jean François among them, non of the generals and soldiers gave help to any of the French that went to them as they were being pursued by their former slaves. The support towards the Haitians had reached that level. Attitudes began to change with the invasion of Toussaint Loverture in 1801 and of Jean Jacques Dessalines in 1805 which basically cemented an anti-Haitian feeling on much of the population due to the cruelties commited against the civilian population, even campesinos that lived scattered between the towns, by the Haitian soldiers on the others of Jean Jacques Dessalines. Most of the Dominicans alive today descend from the survivors of that attempted widespread massacre, the ones the manage to escape from the towns and lived in the woods. In La Vega almost the entire population that fled went into the mountains. That's when and how Jarabacoa was founded.

Something like that never happened in the USA. You can't simply apply USA concepts to the DR without taking into account that they have an extremely different history.

The average Dominican has a lineage that goes back to colonial times and even beyond. You will find more "colonials" among the average population than among the upper class. A good number of Dominicans have become darker and blacker after the country was formed mostly to to natural growth, further mixture with every generation and migration from Haiti, the English Caribbean and the African Americans thst migrated in the 1820's and settled everywhere.***


* Then the Spanish army, but Spaniards from the Iberian peninsula often were the generals and some of the soldiers that were from the Canary Islands, the rest were Dominicans; the same happened in Puerto Rico, Cuba and elsewhere in the Spanish Empire. The Spanish army in those places was composed mostly by locals.

** One of the generals had the last name Montalvo. During Danilo Medina's government there was a high ranking minister with that same last name. He also has similarities in looks with Antonio del Monte y Tejeda, another Dominican from colonial times. In both instances I was left wondering...

*** Today the colony of African Americans that settled in Samaná are the most notables because there was hardly any Dominican population when they settled there. Elsewhere in the DR the original African American populations "melted" as they took up Dominicsn men and women for partners. If there would had been a sizeable population in Samaná, the samething would had happened there.
I know many of the original families in the Jarabacoa area were land rich but cash poor. They became cash rich by carefully selling properties when the demand and price were high.
 
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El Hijo de Manolo

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What are you tslking about? Most upper class Dominicans got their wealth after Trujillo. Of those that made it before, a large chunk did it during the Trujillo dictatorship. Upper class Dominicans of colonial origins are few in comparison. As if that's not enough, the characteristics of even the Dominican upper class from colonial times is a very modest existence, in many cases downright poverty. That goes back to the 17th century which is known as "The Century of Misery." Things got so bad for the Dominican upper class that classicism was bssed on peoples last names as the average lifestyle of a Dominican upper class family and those of the everyday people wasn't that different. Churches began to conduct masses in the very early hours of the morning because it was common for upper class ladies to not have a proper dress to attend mass. The darkness hide their poverty.

People need to stop applying ideas that may be appropriate to the USA to the DR. The premise isn't the same. A good example is slavery which was very different the one practiced in the DR in colonial times from the one practiced in the USA during and after colonial times. To mention one difference, the typical slave owner in the USA owned many along with their families. The slaves were the ones that did all the work. In the DR, the average slave owner had a handful, 5 tops in most cases. They were so few that slave owners got to know their slaves by name, it was common for the slaves to sit on the same table as the slave owner's family and everyone eat at the sametime. Slaves only did part of the work as more often the slave owner's themselves had to work the land along with the slaves. All of that and more, which began to take place in the 17th century, was due to the extreme poverty that affected everybody.

Even attitudes towards Haitians before they became their own country tended to be very linient, at times them receiving support for their revolution against the French. Things got so amicable, that the Dominican army* even accepted and incorporated many of the Haitians that fled into the Spanish part of the island early in the Haitian Revolution. The most notable was Jean François. In 1793 c. there was an invasion of Fort Dauphin (now Fort Liberté, Haiti.) The invasion was headed by the Dominican army** and the runaway Haitians that went to the Spanish part, this included Jean François. The invasion started in Dajabón and while the generals and the soldiers were not involved in the massacre of the French that lived in that town, leaving that to the Haitians that accompanied them with Jean François among them, non of the generals and soldiers gave help to any of the French that went to them as they were being pursued by their former slaves. The support towards the Haitians had reached that level. Attitudes began to change with the invasion of Toussaint Loverture in 1801 and of Jean Jacques Dessalines in 1805 which basically cemented an anti-Haitian feeling on much of the population due to the cruelties commited against the civilian population, even campesinos that lived scattered between the towns, by the Haitian soldiers on the others of Jean Jacques Dessalines. Most of the Dominicans alive today descend from the survivors of that attempted widespread massacre, the ones the manage to escape from the towns and lived in the woods. In La Vega almost the entire population that fled went into the mountains. That's when and how Jarabacoa was founded.

Something like that never happened in the USA. You can't simply apply USA concepts to the DR without taking into account that they have an extremely different history.

The average Dominican has a lineage that goes back to colonial times and even beyond. You will find more "colonials" among the average population than among the upper class. A good number of Dominicans have become darker and blacker after the country was formed mostly to to natural growth, further mixture with every generation and migration from Haiti, the English Caribbean and the African Americans thst migrated in the 1820's and settled everywhere.***


* Then the Spanish army, but Spaniards from the Iberian peninsula often were the generals and some of the soldiers that were from the Canary Islands, the rest were Dominicans; the same happened in Puerto Rico, Cuba and elsewhere in the Spanish Empire. The Spanish army in those places was composed mostly by locals.

** One of the generals had the last name Montalvo. During Danilo Medina's government there was a high ranking minister with that same last name. He also has similarities in looks with Antonio del Monte y Tejeda, another Dominican from colonial times. In both instances I was left wondering...

*** Today the colony of African Americans that settled in Samaná are the most notables because there was hardly any Dominican population when they settled there. Elsewhere in the DR the original African American populations "melted" as they took up Dominicsn men and women for partners. If there would had been a sizeable population in Samaná, the samething would had happened there.
Dude you could buzz kill a free weekend stay at the Playboy mansion
 

Ase

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What are you tslking about? Most upper class Dominicans got their wealth after Trujillo. Of those that made it before, a large chunk did it during the Trujillo dictatorship. Upper class Dominicans of colonial origins are few in comparison. As if that's not enough, the characteristics of even the Dominican upper class from colonial times is a very modest existence, in many cases downright poverty. That goes back to the 17th century which is known as "The Century of Misery." Things got so bad for the Dominican upper class that classicism was bssed on peoples last names as the average lifestyle of a Dominican upper class family and those of the everyday people wasn't that different. Churches began to conduct masses in the very early hours of the morning because it was common for upper class ladies to not have a proper dress to attend mass. The darkness hide their poverty.

People need to stop applying ideas that may be appropriate to the USA to the DR. The premise isn't the same. A good example is slavery which was very different the one practiced in the DR in colonial times from the one practiced in the USA during and after colonial times. To mention one difference, the typical slave owner in the USA owned many along with their families. The slaves were the ones that did all the work. In the DR, the average slave owner had a handful, 5 tops in most cases. They were so few that slave owners got to know their slaves by name, it was common for the slaves to sit on the same table as the slave owner's family and everyone eat at the sametime. Slaves only did part of the work as more often the slave owner's themselves had to work the land along with the slaves. All of that and more, which began to take place in the 17th century, was due to the extreme poverty that affected everybody.

Even attitudes towards Haitians before they became their own country tended to be very linient, at times them receiving support for their revolution against the French. Things got so amicable, that the Dominican army* even accepted and incorporated many of the Haitians that fled into the Spanish part of the island early in the Haitian Revolution. The most notable was Jean François. In 1793 c. there was an invasion of Fort Dauphin (now Fort Liberté, Haiti.) The invasion was headed by the Dominican army** and the runaway Haitians that went to the Spanish part, this included Jean François. The invasion started in Dajabón and while the generals and the soldiers were not involved in the massacre of the French that lived in that town, leaving that to the Haitians that accompanied them with Jean François among them, non of the generals and soldiers gave help to any of the French that went to them as they were being pursued by their former slaves. The support towards the Haitians had reached that level. Attitudes began to change with the invasion of Toussaint Loverture in 1801 and of Jean Jacques Dessalines in 1805 which basically cemented an anti-Haitian feeling on much of the population due to the cruelties commited against the civilian population, even campesinos that lived scattered between the towns, by the Haitian soldiers on the others of Jean Jacques Dessalines. Most of the Dominicans alive today descend from the survivors of that attempted widespread massacre, the ones the manage to escape from the towns and lived in the woods. In La Vega almost the entire population that fled went into the mountains. That's when and how Jarabacoa was founded.

Something like that never happened in the USA. You can't simply apply USA concepts to the DR without taking into account that they have an extremely different history.

The average Dominican has a lineage that goes back to colonial times and even beyond. You will find more "colonials" among the average population than among the upper class. A good number of Dominicans have become darker and blacker after the country was formed mostly to to natural growth, further mixture with every generation and migration from Haiti, the English Caribbean and the African Americans thst migrated in the 1820's and settled everywhere.***


* Then the Spanish army, but Spaniards from the Iberian peninsula often were the generals and some of the soldiers that were from the Canary Islands, the rest were Dominicans; the same happened in Puerto Rico, Cuba and elsewhere in the Spanish Empire. The Spanish army in those places was composed mostly by locals.

** One of the generals had the last name Montalvo. During Danilo Medina's government there was a high ranking minister with that same last name. He also has similarities in looks with Antonio del Monte y Tejeda, another Dominican from colonial times. In both instances I was left wondering...

*** Today the colony of African Americans that settled in Samaná are the most notables because there was hardly any Dominican population when they settled there. Elsewhere in the DR the original African American populations "melted" as they took up Dominicsn men and women for partners. If there would had been a sizeable population in Samaná, the samething would had happened there.
you love to say that things that happened in the USA did not Happen in DR what the heck are you talking about..... it shows you lack of knowledge. For starters go learn your own history I happened to mayor in it! I am not arguing with a "person" who still feels a kin way about Trujillo and it is soooo lost!
Slavery is is still slavery you obviously don't know your own history. It is literally explaining the concept of evolution to a kindergarteners who refuses to listen and argue with you because they are afraid. Why are you NOT Appalled but the horrible comments made against the Dominicans where they use a slang to refer to us? get a life and learn your history, when you don't know your history it is bound to happen again, ya'll keep loving your oppressors and justifying things and downplaying suffering. smh
FYI, Africans are everywhere in DR not just Samana, funny how you try to sneak that in... lol