Real Estate in Haiti

Big

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Don't know, don't care. Keep in mind this is Haiti we are talking about. That is a place with ZERO chance of getting better.

Now if they build walls , fortresses, around their developments and bring everything in from outside and produce all of the power, water and other infrastructure they need and then somehow educate a workforce with no education at all,, well. never mind, I give up, it just isn't possible to make anything work there.
Agreed. Most of the Haitians I have met, which is dozens at least, have been relatively well educated. Far better than the average Dominican, and they've mostly spoken 3 or 4 languages. Creole (sp), English, Spanish and French. ALL of them spoke 3. They've been industrious, hard-working, entrepreneurial, and willing to do whatever it took to succeed.

It's grossly unfair to brush "Haitians" with the same brush and look at them in a negative light.
1) Haiti is a complete failed State. No fix for 20 + years
2) As far as education, you clearly made that up as very few Haitians speak French.
 

D'Arcy (Apostropheman)

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1. I stipulate to the first sentence. I disagree with the second.
2. I have met many Haitians that speak French. Of course I have gone to university. Here. In the Dominican Republic.
Perhaps it's the quality of people I associate with but most of them speak French. Before the devastating earthquake in 2010 that such extreme damage and that Haiti has not recovered from, French, while not taught formally to all, it is to the "upper classes", and many others pick it up. Much of the teaching going on in Haiti today are more informal schools and if those teaching were privileged enough to have learned French it would explain an increase in the numbers of those who speak it.

It's perhaps a testament to those with enough grit and resilience to make it to and in the DR that most I know have spoken French, also English, and have picked up Spanish as well, even if many in Haiti don't and no longer get such opportunities.

That Haiti is a failed state or has not been "fixed" for more than 20 years has more to do with foreign involvement (meddling?) and the dictators who have embezzled and taken billions(?) out of the country to the detriment of the citizens and organized democratic government, and the gangs that now largely control the country. Of course, devastating natural disasters and failed (plundered) international aid are just more kicks in the head.
 

Big

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1. I stipulate to the first sentence. I disagree with the second.
2. I have met many Haitians that speak French. Of course I have gone to university. Here. In the Dominican Republic.
hmm that's unusual, as the majority of Haitians do not speak French. Part of the problem is just that, education. No business is going to hire someone that speaks gibberish and slang Spanish. As someone who speaks a meaningless language (Afrikaans) I would not complicate my business life with someone who can't communicate in a reasonable articulable manner.
 
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johne

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And off we go into the wild blue yonder. OPoster said "real estate opps." Im trying to focus on that and Big... now you want to shuffle the three dice to speak about lingo. Lets talk real estate. You in ? (don't say no so fast... there is a pot a gold at the end. ) Hmmmmm
 

D'Arcy (Apostropheman)

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Yes, getting back more towards the OP it's a shame that things are so chaotic in Haiti making the timing questionable, and the likelihood that it's a safe or good investment.

A large factor is that regardless of past attempts, post 2010, there has been little to no traction or improvement in rebuilding.

Despite all this, education is still a priority, even if it barely resembles what most of us would recognize. Similar to many warzones and conflict areas, and locations of an large natural disasters.
 
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JD Jones

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Not to doubt, but do you have any specific examples?

I met a Haitian girl the other day who studied in Université Jean Price Mars, and she spoke better English than I did.
 

D'Arcy (Apostropheman)

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Not to doubt, but do you have any specific examples?

I met a Haitian girl the other day who studied in Université Jean Price Mars, and she spoke better English than I did.
Education is fundamental. I trust that we can "all" agree on that.

The lack of even the most basic infrastructure makes it unlikely that the majority of people will have access to proper and acceptable basic education, and almost no one but the rich, if there are any that have not abandoned Haiti, will have the opportunity for a proper education. Also, most of the wealthy and powerful tend to send their kids to higher education outside of Haiti.

This really makes it a forgone conclusion that things will not improve fundamentally in Haiti making this possible opportunity risky. But, it does not have to be that way ;)
 
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D'Arcy (Apostropheman)

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You wrote:

"Despite all this, education is still a priority, even if it barely resembles what most of us would recognize."

And I asked if you had any specifics or was it just an assumption?
It's based upon firsthand reporting in articles I've read and videos I've seen. I'm sure that a quick search would make that evident.

How could it not be anything that we're accustomed to, in first-world countries and even in most cities and towns in the DR, and also the schools that some members here run or are involved in, in rural DR locals? Many, if not most buildings that were destroyed in Haiti have not even been cleared let alone rebuilt so schools, such as they are, take place outside, in tents, or in ruined buildings.


AND

 

Yourmaninvegas

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hmm that's unusual, as the majority of Haitians do not speak French. Part of the problem is just that, education. No business is going to hire someone that speaks gibberish and slang Spanish.
Maybe you should have wrote: "In my experience I have not come across many Haitians that speak French".
Because in my experience that has not been the case while living in the 🇩🇴.

Maybe the speaking of French is a benefit of education. And education is often a benefit of privilege.
So, now I am going to give you some education.
I attended the School of Languages at APEC
I actually went to classes and had classmates from Haiti. They all spoke French, most spoke English and they were in the same Spanish classes as I was in order to bring their Spanish up to college level (or they were fulfilling requirements for their degree).
All them spoke way more than "slang Spanish". And much better Spanish than I did.
I had a friend who was a house cleaner. She spoke four languages. One of them was French. She was from Haiti. And she could not get her papers in the 🇩🇴 to work.
As someone who speaks a meaningless language (Afrikaans) I would not complicate my business life with someone who can't communicate in a reasonable articulable manner.
I am glad you learned a meaningful language.
I know two now.🤪

Did anyone actually read the article in post #3?
It said:
"the people who could have afforded to buy a house or land in Haiti — middle- and upper-class families — are also the ones who have been able to afford to leave the country."
These are the exact people who ARE educated and can send their children to other countries to get educated.
"somehow educate a workforce with no education at all"
Is this your opinion?
 

NanSanPedro

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I was talking with a friend in Okap earlier today. Mid 20s guy. He regrets his education. He finished his 13 years and got his Bach II and it doesn't help him do squat. This guy's older brother has an engineering degree from PAP and works as a mason. By the way, neither of these guys speak French. They may have had some classes but it's totally useless in Haiti. The govt documents are in French, but anyone can understand them as simple as they are.

Still, education is a massive priority in Haiti. Even though they can't do shit with the education, people still value it immensely. That's just part of the culture. All parents send their kids to school if they can. It's made more expensive by the stupid uniforms, but that's just more culture.

I've paid for classical educations, language schools, plumbing schools for Haitians. None of them have helped anyone. Money just thrown in the shitter. I'm hoping the programming school I'm trying to do works out, but I have some very real doubts.
 

Yourmaninvegas

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Education is an interesting thing.
It is both general and specific.
When I finally got the job that I really wanted...they send me to two basic schools to educate me on how to do the job they wanted me to do. Then I still had to go through a training program at my local office.
But I still would not say that any of my education was a waste.
In fact I would say that my education before university (other than reading, writing and math) did not do much for me at all.

But it is interesting that the smartest people are leaving Haiti.
That leaves a pool of individuals that may not be prepared to anything other than take care of themselves.
And since those with money want to get out of there...there are currently very few buyers.
Even for pennies on the dollar right now...I don't know of any property worth being kidnapped for.
 

D'Arcy (Apostropheman)

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I was talking with a friend in Okap earlier today. Mid 20s guy. He regrets his education. He finished his 13 years and got his Bach II and it doesn't help him do squat. This guy's older brother has an engineering degree from PAP and works as a mason. By the way, neither of these guys speak French. They may have had some classes but it's totally useless in Haiti. The govt documents are in French, but anyone can understand them as simple as they are.

Still, education is a massive priority in Haiti. Even though they can't do shit with the education, people still value it immensely. That's just part of the culture. All parents send their kids to school if they can. It's made more expensive by the stupid uniforms, but that's just more culture.

I've paid for classical educations, language schools, plumbing schools for Haitians. None of them have helped anyone. Money just thrown in the shitter. I'm hoping the programming school I'm trying to do works out, but I have some very real doubts.
It's a terrible and difficult situation but if people, like you, don't step up then there is even less hope.

Education is never wasted IMO, it changes most people for the better. It helps you learn to think and learn better in "all" situations and it's a fundamental building block for rebuilding and improving the country and government.

P.S. I would have loved to be a mason. A friend's father was a master stone mason and bricklayer. He designed and built his own house, largely by himself, and worked on many exclusive projects/buildings all over the world. He even owned a large apartment in Manhattan that sold for well over a million USD decades ago. Not bad for a wee lad from Glasgow ;) LOL
 

NALs

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I was talking with a friend in Okap earlier today. Mid 20s guy. He regrets his education. He finished his 13 years and got his Bach II and it doesn't help him do squat. This guy's older brother has an engineering degree from PAP and works as a mason. By the way, neither of these guys speak French. They may have had some classes but it's totally useless in Haiti. The govt documents are in French, but anyone can understand them as simple as they are.

Still, education is a massive priority in Haiti. Even though they can't do shit with the education, people still value it immensely. That's just part of the culture. All parents send their kids to school if they can. It's made more expensive by the stupid uniforms, but that's just more culture.

I've paid for classical educations, language schools, plumbing schools for Haitians. None of them have helped anyone. Money just thrown in the shitter. I'm hoping the programming school I'm trying to do works out, but I have some very real doubts.
There is more to having a university title thsn the economic benefits (which may or may not come true). If you have a university degree, even if you don't use it towards developing a career and making money, people will give you a preferential treatment. The best way to see this is compare how you get treated by someone that knows nothing about you and then let them know your title. 8 out 10 times there is a change. Everywhere you go those with university degrees will always be a minority of the population. That's the case even in the USA (although there are some areas where in the immediate vicinity university educated can be a large percentage of the population, but those places are exceptions). You go into a bank and many times the licenciado gets better treatment thsn the regular Joe. You go into government offices and the only people getting a better treatment are those with connections.

If Haiti truly is a country where "people still value it immensely" and "that's just part of the culture," things like these are bound to happen more frequently given that people know you have a degree.

With that said, many times when a university degree isn't enough to get you through the door, you need further specialization such as an equivalence of a masters or a PhD.
 

terantius

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Investing in a country that is currently in an armed struggle in its capital city seems like the most irrational thing one could possibly do. Not to mention, the condition of said country has been steadily a disaster for 70 plus year relative to other countries in the region and the planet. Literally the poorest country in the hemisphere.

By the way, insisting that haitian speaks multiple languages on the basis that you personally met a couple that spoke french is completely irrational.

Only 60 percent of the population was literate in the 2020 census. And you're proposing that you've met some haitians that spoke "better than me" as evidence for a population being multi-lingual, what?
 
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windeguy

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Maybe you should have wrote: "In my experience I have not come across many Haitians that speak French".
Because in my experience that has not been the case while living in the 🇩🇴.

Maybe the speaking of French is a benefit of education. And education is often a benefit of privilege.
So, now I am going to give you some education.
I attended the School of Languages at APEC
I actually went to classes and had classmates from Haiti. They all spoke French, most spoke English and they were in the same Spanish classes as I was in order to bring their Spanish up to college level (or they were fulfilling requirements for their degree).
All them spoke way more than "slang Spanish". And much better Spanish than I did.
I had a friend who was a house cleaner. She spoke four languages. One of them was French. She was from Haiti. And she could not get her papers in the 🇩🇴 to work.

I am glad you learned a meaningful language.
I know two now.🤪

Did anyone actually read the article in post #3?
It said:
"the people who could have afforded to buy a house or land in Haiti — middle- and upper-class families — are also the ones who have been able to afford to leave the country."
These are the exact people who ARE educated and can send their children to other countries to get educated.

Is this your opinion?
It is my experience while living in the DR north coast for 20 years that the education level of Haitians is very low. I do have one exception, he was one of the ones who got out. but that one exception does not negate the many others with little education level. Some people think they all speak French? Those people must be joking.

As for buying property in Haiti? What guarantees is there that you actually own that property since there is no valid government there?
 
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Big

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And off we go into the wild blue yonder. OPoster said "real estate opps." Im trying to focus on that and Big... now you want to shuffle the three dice to speak about lingo. Lets talk real estate. You in ? (don't say no so fast... there is a pot a gold at the end. ) Hmmmmm
Real Estate is worthless !!
 
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