ROI Buying an apartment to live in for 1 year.

[JanH]

I know you don't want to hear anything more about your dogs, but I would think any of the neighborhoods (subdivisions) would allow dogs. our neighborhood, Casa Linda, has several owners/renters with dogs. Most homes here are surrounded by walls or fencing (hidden by thick foliage). Dogs are leashed when on the streets.

We have a custom-built kennel at our house from previous owner. We store stuff in the cute little dog house and use the rest for my clothes lines. But it will be there for renters and eventually, for our dog.

There are several houses in this neighborhood that rent long term. Most are rented through the management (www.casalindaonline.com) I think they are around $850/mo.

BTW - If I had a condo, I wouldn't want neighbors with dogs either. Most bark at anything that moves. Maybe not yours, but most.

 

[Chris]

Thanks Ken, that was a very honest and intelligent answer much appreciated.

With your experience in country, I am curious specifically on what you would do. Or, if it is a better way of asking, how did you come to be a full time resident? Did you patiently wait and rent? Curious, but sensitive to your privacy if that seems a prying question. I am curious about how any expatriot "settled in". Did they rent, did they buy immediately?

Thanks!

We patiently rented - and in fact, we're still rending patiently but will probably end up buying what we're renting and set off what we've paid in rental against the purchase price. We have a first option to buy and it was arranged up front that rental will be set off against the purchase price. So, rental money is not wasted. I am very very happy that we made the decision to rent. We've seen a lot, much more and in more relaxed circumstances than if we were trying to buy first off. We've taken weekends and gone property shopping with no urgency and no need to get a roof over our heads, simply looking at, and learning about the market. We can truly say we prefer to live on the mountain side and not on the ocean, and we are convinced that we like the little town that we chose to stay in first, the best. But we've had the opportunity to look at other towns, other property, other lifestyles, other coastlines, other developments, etc etc. We've lived through an earthquake and tropical storms in our house. I believe our decision to buy, now after a year of living here and a previous year of visiting here, will be an informed decision.

Others may have different experiences.

 

[wtf2001]

Thanks!

Thank you Jan for your tips. I am looking at Casa Linda as a very likely long-term or permanent option. I just wrote the management through the website you referred. If you hear of any owners interested in direct rental to us, or if they suggest interest in long term with option to buy I would very much like to hear about it.

The idea of an outside home is a nice one. Our dogs are cleaner than most humans I know of. Where ever we rent/purchase, we would definitely have a maid as well as perform and installation of pavers or what not for the animals should they ever be outside. We have never had fleas in 9 years, do to the fact they really only go out for 10 minutes or so a day just for bodily functions. In our current home, they use a 10 square foot area designated in the yard, which I even remove immediately to proper waste area. You can see we are extremely responsible owners.

Anyway, your help as well as that of any others is very much appreciated.

Thanks Cris for your post as well. I am wondering what area we will like better, ocean side or mountain side. Guess we will have to use the year to explore as well.

We look forward to meeting the regular posters here very soon.

Gary and Kimberly

 

[Escott]

WTF, nothing personal with the dog comments. I owned a kennel, trained and bred dogs for many years. Matter of fact at the last DR1 party in Cabarete I met people that bought a puppy from me in the states 15-20 years ago who remembered me. It was the folks with the Standard Poodle if anyone is curious who it was.

My comments weren't to speak ill of YOUR dogs as much as to let you know that you may have problems in some places with the acceptance of Dogs.

I wouldnt even consider buying real estate for years in the DR. I frankly thought it was a piss poor investment. I get a high percentage on my money investing in the DR and when I did the math, I would have had paid the rent with money left over just by investing.

When I was in Costa Rica in March I checked out RE there as it was on my short list for retirement. My short list included DR, CR, Panama and Ecuador. Well the prices were 2x to 3x as much in CR as DR and the infrastructure was 1/2 of what it was in the DR. You could drive for 40 miles on roads with Bolders, not a dirt road but a boulder road going from one major place to another in CR.

I then decided to look to nibble on some pieces in the DR. North Coast was the place I had chosen to settle and I have been buying since my next time in the DR which was April. So far I have bought a building lot in a gated community and a Condo. I have offers in on 4 homes in Sosua and a Duplex in Cabarete as I type and think I may get em all in a month and the Duplex which I just put an offer on yesterday I may get in a week. I think I had picked possibly the low in the Market but of course time will tell and if it was it was by luck.

A lot of people that come to the DR ended up getting majorly screwed over and over again for one reason or another. Those are the same people that sit at the bars with their noses buried in their drinks complaining about how horrible it is here. If you can avoid the first 5 screwings here you have a better chance of liking this place. This is something we try and help newbies with here. I can honestly say that this message board has been invaluable to me. It is hard to even express how much I have learned from it. These same people who are advising you are some of the finest people I have ever met in my life. I enjoy their knowledge and friendships I have made over the years just as much.

Keep listening and keep asking. Makes you wiser.

Scott

 

[Criss Colon]

If I could give you only one piece of advice,it would be......

.....RENT FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You must not purchase until you have spent one year finding out if the DR is for you,and more importantly,for your wife and your child!!!You will need a year to find out where you want to live!The rent money should be considered as "Education Fees"! What you learn in one year of living can only be learned "First Hand",or by paying attention to what you are being told on DR1! Most people don't take us seriously,and that will cost them money!
Go to thr "Living Forum" and look for "Timex's" first year experiences in the DR.Lots of interesting points to ponder there!

Living in the DR is like paying a "Government Contractor",It will cost you twice as much as you were quoted,be of inferior quality,and always be delivered very very LATE,if at all!

The beer is really good!

CCCCCCCCCCCris CCCCCColon

 

[goatfarmnga]

Re: If I could give you only one piece of advice,it would be......

Living in the DR is like paying a "Government Contractor",It will cost you twice as much as you were quoted,be of inferior quality,and always be delivered very very LATE,if at all!

The beer is really good!

CCCCCCCCCCCris CCCCCColon

[/B][/QUOTE]
That is too funny CC..Sadly true but funny! Pam

 

[wtf2001]

Interesting Reply

Thanks Criss for the interesting reply.

I have only been watching the board for several months, and certainly reading is now where close to living in country gaining first hand experience. Your rent first advice is something we intend on adhereing to. Basically my family is looking for the best environment anywhere in the world to live on a fixed residual income stream. My wife has an affinity for beach access and of course safe yet challenging education for our 6 year old son. I have an affinity for comfortable home life and setting up a relatively stress free sabatical for a few years while we are young. We have investigated some other communities that seem abit too pocketed away in the mountains of Panama, or ruled out for the same reasons Scott mentioned in his posting. DR seems to be at the top of the list, hence our interest in seeing for ourselves first hand for a trial run.

Criss...how long have you lived in DR? What area do you live? How did you pick the place? Where did you expatriate from if at all?

Since this thread is about return on investment (ROI), I am curious about a tangent. Not just a financial ROI, but a time based one.

Where would you invest 1 year of your life exploring to relocate to? Assume an after tax income stream of $50k/annual and mandatory access to US public school standard education for an elementary level child. Beach should be within 45 minute drive, High speed internet must be available, and government must be stable/relatively safe.

We are not considering relocation for miserly reasons, but for lifestyle ones. We don't expect to live the current lifestyle we have now, because my wife and I currently work 70 weeks to suppport the current US based lifestyle we lead. We would like to change that "trade time for money" pattern for awhile.


Is there a better ROI of 1 year living in DR vs some place else you have first hand knowledge? This question is for any poster.

All contributions as always are very much appreciated.

 

[Ken]

Santo Domingo is a possibility. Most internet options available to you there and the best schools for your child.

For many years I lived in Samana, but wouldn't recommend it to you. Neither the schools or internet access would be satisfactory. I now live in Sosua and like it here. I think the Sosua/Cabarete area is worth your consideration. Internet Flash is available from Codetel (just make sure you pick an area where the service is) and the International School of Sosua should please your wife and child. As will the easy access to the beaches. The large, friendly expat community in this area is also a big plus.

I've lived in the DR since 1986.

PS: Here is link to International School if you don't already have it http://www.issosua.com/

 

[wtf2001]

thanks for the link...

Thanks for the link Ken. I have it on our favorites and I have spoken with the school administrator. THe school is one of the biggest reasons we are considering Sosua moreso than Cabarete at the moment. We would like to find something within reasonable distance of all the support infrastructure (grocery, school, social venues, *beach - if even possible).

If the beach were not within a 30 minute walk, we would want something higher on the hills or mountains that still had some nice vistas, if not of the ocean.

I have never really considered S.D. since we do not prefer city living. I have lived in Chicago and L.A., so would like to avoid repeat. The north area seems appealing in general moreso than a larger population.

I appreciate the advice this thread is generating. I assure you I invest several hours a day researching our interests, and this board is a huge benefit not just to me but for the rest of the forum community.

Gary and Kim

 

[Chris]

Re: Interesting Reply

Is there a better ROI of 1 year living in DR vs some place else you have first hand knowledge? This question is for any poster.

The old ROI question on life eh! Well, work out the ROI on having more time to do things, and less stress. Work out the ROI on not having to keep up with a murderous lifestyle in business. Work out the ROI of being able to see my granddaughter daily. I lived in the US for 12 years and whatever ROI I earned there, was not worth the lifestyle that I had to lead, to earn it. I earn about 75% less now than what I earned there, and every moment is worth it.

Let me give you a couple of real examples
Spending on food and necessities - Folks think things are cheap in the DR, but if you do not change your lifestyle, and you exist/ subsist on imports from the US, or wherever home is, you will spend more than ever before in your life. If you adjust your lifestyle, buy local and learn many new things like for instance how to cook those brown hairy roots - your food bill will be cut tremendously. Your ROI is in your hands. I have possibly 80% less little bottles and additives in the fridge than ever before in my life. It is possible to live very cheaply and very simply here without feeling deprived. But you have to be able to improvise, and be flexible. It is *not* like home. We are a family of four and usually have visitors, customers or somebody around. I spend much less than what I used to spend in the US as we take the time and trouble to make the food - No deli food and no prepared stuff, fresh fruit and veg that we actually prepare and cook daily - The lifestyle allows us this time.

Vehicle expenses - from 3 cars in the US to 1 car here. If there are repairs to be done, the local mechanico down the road comes quite quickly and keeps the old truck running.

Clothing and these types of things - I don't have 60 pairs of shoes any longer. I have about 10. And I like shoes. That tells you something. T-Shirts, shorts, light pants a few dresses with summer jackets for business and I'm fine. Lots of beach stuff. My clothes expenditure is about 50% less than in the US.

Insurance, Medical and such types of things - Much much cheaper. I go to the Doctor for about 350 pesos and usually walk out with at least part of the prescription that I need. Serious medical, for that you need insurance. Healthier lifestyle, less medical required. Dentists are excellent and about half the price than in the US. Again, for major medical, you need insurance.

Housing etc - For us, it is about 50% of what we spent in the US. But, we like big and lots of space, so for housing, we still spend a lot of money by DR standards - our choice.

Household help, Gardener etc. - I spend less on household help than what I spent on the gardening service in the US.

Quality of life - I do not have to keep up with the Jonesses. Not even in business. I can take off at 3 if I choose to, and go and sit on the beach and drink wine. Everybody understands a Dominican Day. There is much less business stress - but getting used to the life, had stressors that I could not envisage, before we made the move.

Entertainment, meals out - We spend altogether too much time on the beach drinking wine and chatting with friends, but this is good ROI. If we have to travel in the DR for business or to Santo Domingo, we tend to stay in cheaper hotels and make up with trying better restaurants. Or we eat cheaply and stay in a better hotel.

Schooling - my granddaughter (2 and a half) goes to a small Montessori pre-school in our town. US$100 a month for half days for Montessori pre-school is not bad and we are paying a fortune by Dominican standards.

Island Fever - The one thing about the DR in comparison with other Caribbean Islands, that is really good, is that it is a big enough island, not to get island fever. Beaches and mountains. Cities and little hole in the wall towns. If I spent the next 20 years here, I probably still would not have explored all the places that I want to explore, in depth.

Before we came here, we looked at Panama, Costa Rica, A number of other Caribbean Islands and actually lived for a year on another Island.

So ROI on lifestyle and happiness. Well, a scale has not been invented for that.

 

[Ken]

I've been thinking about the questions you asked me in an earlier post re renting vs. buying.

My wife and I came here on our sailboat, and it was our home until we bought the condo we now live in. So I guess we would be in the "rent first" column.

There is nothing magic about renting for a year. It doesn't have to be that long--if in a shorter period of time you, your wife and your child decide this is really where you want to live. If you were purchasing a vacation home, then buy and be done with it. After all, the time spent here will only be a small part of your life.

But living here is quite different. Not everyone can adjust to it. "A" type people, for example, who are unable to relax and go with the flow don't last very long. Changing things so that life will be the same here as at home doesn't work.

The advantage of renting (or living on a boat like we did) is that you can leave at any time. Nobody feels trapped in a decision. I can't emphasize enough how important that is during the adjustment period. My observation is that people who think of their first months here as an experiment are more likely to become happy permanet residents than those who burned all the bridges before being sure this was really the place for them.

As far as whether to spend that trial period in rented quarters or something you buy, knowing it is not permanent, is something you have to decide. What many of us are saying is not to buy the permanent dwelling until all those affected by the decision are sure this is what they want.

 

[wtf2001]

Wow

What wonderful, thoughtful and down-to-earth replies I have read in this thread. I am a think 3 times before action type of person when it comes to life decisions such as geographical relocation. The previous posts with consideration to ROI for a "trial period" stay in DR were simply fantastic.

Until recently, my wife and I have been living a very stressful lifestyle. A short snapshot of my history includes growing up in Texas destined to be a cattle man, joining the military special forces at age 17 to "see the world", managing the cardiology diagnostics division of a major Florida hospital, to my current occupation as IT director at a medical research facility.

My wife's history includes flying for Continental for years " to see the world", very high hierarchal service within the US Federal Government, to corporate telecom administrator for 250 national branches.

We are at a point where frankly we are sick of chasing the trappings in the US as well as living to work, or working to live. Our home here is much more than we need, classic car collections hold no luster for me anymore, and other reasons I was inspired to be agressive in business seem very pointless at this time. Hence our interest in a "Radical Sabatical"

Surely, we do not want to grovel or live a desitute lifestyle. I'll go ape if I cut off any business interests completely, hence the need for communication infrastructure to support my work outside the D.R.

In abscence of working for a living, we would like our investment income streams to support an independent lifestyle. We would like to focus on enjoying our family inter relationships and I would like to spend more time with my son and wife than I currently can afford. I guess it is a "stop and smell the roses" environment I want to enjoy.

That is the reason behind our "investment" into changing our lifestyle dramatically. We could do so in the US, but frankly it would mandate continued employment or business ownership stresses I don't want to pursue for a few years while my son is young.

Thanks again for listening to my rant and contributing your valuable advice.

Gary and Kim

 

[JanH]

I think if I were moving there, I would want to rent on a 3-mo basis, going maybe 3 different places. After 9 mos, I would pretty much know which area/neighborhood I liked best. There are very nice quiet neighborhoods between resort towns that offer tranquil surroundings but provide people close enough to you to establish friendships and a place for your child to make friends and ride bikes.

There are many neighborhoods on the ocean side of the main highway between Sosua and Cabarete. These neighborhoods allow a quick walk to the beach. Buying in neighborhoods on the other side of the highway would give you better prices, generally.

 

[wtf2001]

Thanks Jan, that is a very smart idea.

I tried replying to your PMs, but it says your box is full.

Here is an edited version of my reply to your PM. It is abit off topic on this thread, so other viewers please forgive and don't pelt me with rocks.



Thanks Jan,

I recall the photos of your truly lovely home. Do you by chance have any images of the neighborhood? I see the homes on the C.L. website, I am curious of a "feel" for the neighborhood as well as individual home images. Things we take for granted here at my home are mail service, trash service, grocery conveniences (although they require a car, they are very close), and school bus routes on our street.

I am curious about other expatriate families. Do you know of any children that live in the neighborhood full time? Ours is 6, I am 33 and Kim is 38 so we are curious about full time residential peer families. Do you know email or DR1 names of any of the families you mention?

We have Great Danes and a very, very old Cocker spaniel.

http://itzagreat58.com/PhotoAlbum/Pets/Pets.htm

Please send any file attachement mail you might have to gary@itzagreat58.com

It is a pleasure chatting with you and I hope all is well with you both!

Gary and Kim

 

[pasha]

Re: Wow

.....I am a think 3 times before action type of person

Rent

Best, P

 

[goatfarmnga]

Chris....

Great info! I wish all others would post such honest things about their lives inthe DR..I hear it is too expensive so many times..I just do not believe that..Thanks for the good info to all. PAM

 

[Ken]

Gary & Kim, you have mentioned that you will be working with Dean Brown. A very good choice. He lives in Perla Marina; there are other resident children there.

I would think finding an area where other children live would be an important consideration. Some areas seem to be made up mainly by second homes and homes of retirees.

As far as renting in 3 places for several months each, it sounds good but you will have to see if it is realistic given the availability of housing for short term rental in the areas that look most interesting to you.

 

[JanH]

Great web site, Gary. Nice autobiography.

I've cleaned out my PM box, so you can send again. I'll email you with specifics on friends in the neighborhood, etc.

We also have friends in neighborhood across the highway, on the beach side. They have a lovely home and it's a nice neighborhood. They're going to start renting end of this year.

 

[wtf2001]

Dean Brown Tour

Thanks Jan for the nice compliment and help.

Sadly, I learned today that Dean Brown will have to be stateside the first week of November. Something about testing for his son with an unknown return date. I hope it isn't anything serious as he sounds like a very nice man commanding a lot of respect from the regulars here at DR1.

I guess I better scout for another agent that knows the area as well. I certainly am not looking for a purchase at the moment, rather a nice rental like the ones Jan suggests in Casa Linda. Any suggestions of that nature would be very welcome through PM or here.

I appreciate all of the feedback on my ROI question. As always, the variety of responses are welcome and some great tips were digested.


Gary and Kim

 

[Ken]

For those who know Dean, the testing of his son has to do with an educational placement rather than any health problem. Not serious.