- Thread starter Kyle
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saber/conocer
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When you are acquainted with a person, you know (conocer) him.
When you know about a subject matter, you know (saber) the info.
The latter is to do with your knowledge, whereas the first is to do with being acquainted with.
I'm confused, because I've used these two sentences.
1.Conozco (conocer) de alguien que puede hacer ese trabajo.
2.Se (saber) de alguien que puede hacer ese trabajo.
I think I get it, they both could be used but #1 is to know someone personally and #2 You know of someone (you knowledge or info on someone) that could do the job???
Conozco (conocer) de alguien que puede hacer ese trabajo.
I would think that your sentence is wrong, unless you remove the word "de", or at least change it to "a", and it's back to what we are saying, that you are acquainted with.
In the second sentence, you are dealing with your knowledge base, so "saber: is correct.
Saber vs conocer- grammar concepts-
Traditionally, there are certain verbs that pose difficulty in Spanish for all speakers, which includes native and second language, truly bilingual (those who grew up in a balanced dual language environment), casual Spanish speakers etc. however, the understanding of how they are used correctly can be overcome by proper instruction and correction.
Those of you who know my style of posting in this forum since exception in April 2005 know that I am pro grammar and pro a grammar textbook. The grammar textbook being the ultimate source for proper speech and not the incorrect usage often heard in day-to-day conversation, the television, newspapers and other forms of communication. If you are aware of what correct grammar is you will recognize incorrect speech. If you are not aware you will assume that the spoken language heard is always the correct form.
Saber and conocer, two verbs to express 'to know' in Spanish but with different nuances is not unique to Spanish. El espa?ol is the most extended and spoken language of the Latin based ones and there are two forms to express 'to know' in at least three. In French it's savoir/ conna?tre. Italian has two forms however, I can't comment or Portuguese because I am not at all familiar with the language but the chances are high based on its origin.
There are very logical rules that define usage of one over the other and once they are learned and you truly understand what you are trying to express in Spanish you will not err also you will recognize when it's used incorrectly. The understanding of when to use one over the other is not as simple as familiarity vs. knowledge (of facts). That's one of differences but there are more complex nuances. A good grammar textbook explains these nuances in depth. For those of you who speak French, use your knowledge of French and apply it to Spanish when choosing one over the other. The grammatical rules are the same. Saber/savoir and Conocer/ conna?tre have the same base grammar rules.
As general a comment verbs are one of the difficult aspects of language learning but in my opinion the most essential because they express the action in the sentence and without them the phrase lacks meaning. The second aspect is using the correct mood (indicative vs. subjunctive) and then the correct corresponding tenses. There are some traditional problematic verbs in Spanish and I am referring to the usage and not the conjugation.
Examples:
*saber/ conocer
*ser/ estar
*traer / llevar
*ir/ venir
Again, if you consult a good grammar textbook combined with your solid understanding of the language you will be able to recognize proper usage and more importantly recognize incorrect usage in day-to-day speech.
-LDG.
PD. This topic was discussed very early on.
Traditionally, there are certain verbs that pose difficulty in Spanish for all speakers, which includes native and second language, truly bilingual (those who grew up in a balanced dual language environment), casual Spanish speakers etc. however, the understanding of how they are used correctly can be overcome by proper instruction and correction.
Those of you who know my style of posting in this forum since exception in April 2005 know that I am pro grammar and pro a grammar textbook. The grammar textbook being the ultimate source for proper speech and not the incorrect usage often heard in day-to-day conversation, the television, newspapers and other forms of communication. If you are aware of what correct grammar is you will recognize incorrect speech. If you are not aware you will assume that the spoken language heard is always the correct form.
Saber and conocer, two verbs to express 'to know' in Spanish but with different nuances is not unique to Spanish. El espa?ol is the most extended and spoken language of the Latin based ones and there are two forms to express 'to know' in at least three. In French it's savoir/ conna?tre. Italian has two forms however, I can't comment or Portuguese because I am not at all familiar with the language but the chances are high based on its origin.
There are very logical rules that define usage of one over the other and once they are learned and you truly understand what you are trying to express in Spanish you will not err also you will recognize when it's used incorrectly. The understanding of when to use one over the other is not as simple as familiarity vs. knowledge (of facts). That's one of differences but there are more complex nuances. A good grammar textbook explains these nuances in depth. For those of you who speak French, use your knowledge of French and apply it to Spanish when choosing one over the other. The grammatical rules are the same. Saber/savoir and Conocer/ conna?tre have the same base grammar rules.
As general a comment verbs are one of the difficult aspects of language learning but in my opinion the most essential because they express the action in the sentence and without them the phrase lacks meaning. The second aspect is using the correct mood (indicative vs. subjunctive) and then the correct corresponding tenses. There are some traditional problematic verbs in Spanish and I am referring to the usage and not the conjugation.
Examples:
*saber/ conocer
*ser/ estar
*traer / llevar
*ir/ venir
Again, if you consult a good grammar textbook combined with your solid understanding of the language you will be able to recognize proper usage and more importantly recognize incorrect usage in day-to-day speech.
-LDG.
PD. This topic was discussed very early on.
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My recommendations-
Thanks M.A.R. I check the board daily more than once per day but I just have a different perspective regarding the Spanish forum right now. I am still around don't worry.
There are a wealth of good grammar books on the market and I have a few favorites:
1/ Con mucho gusto- this is an English/Spanish high beginner/ low intermediate grammar book. What I like about it is the thoroughness of the explanations. The focus is completely on grammar with cultural excerpts in every chapter.
2/ El pr?ximo paso- by B?rbara M?jica. This is a high intermediate grammar textbook completely in Spanish. The focus is on grammar and special nuances that pose difficulty for all Spanish speakers. The book is a gem if you have a strong grammar base and are looking to improve and understand better specific grammar concepts.
3/ Identidades- Exploraciones e interconexiones. I recently purchased this one and I have yet to finish analyzing it however from what I have reviewed it's a well organized and detailed high intermediate grammar textbook. The lessons are presented in way that you can read through it like a book rather than for study purposes. It's a little expensive but IMO there's no price tag on education. If you read the description of the textbook on Amazon you will get a feel for the value of this text.
There are some really good advanced grammar textbooks that I have analyzed as well, but they are geared towards educators, linguists, grammarians etc. which I use on a professional level.
All of these books are available on Amazon.
Chao
-LDG.
Thanks M.A.R. I check the board daily more than once per day but I just have a different perspective regarding the Spanish forum right now. I am still around don't worry.
There are a wealth of good grammar books on the market and I have a few favorites:
1/ Con mucho gusto- this is an English/Spanish high beginner/ low intermediate grammar book. What I like about it is the thoroughness of the explanations. The focus is completely on grammar with cultural excerpts in every chapter.
2/ El pr?ximo paso- by B?rbara M?jica. This is a high intermediate grammar textbook completely in Spanish. The focus is on grammar and special nuances that pose difficulty for all Spanish speakers. The book is a gem if you have a strong grammar base and are looking to improve and understand better specific grammar concepts.
3/ Identidades- Exploraciones e interconexiones. I recently purchased this one and I have yet to finish analyzing it however from what I have reviewed it's a well organized and detailed high intermediate grammar textbook. The lessons are presented in way that you can read through it like a book rather than for study purposes. It's a little expensive but IMO there's no price tag on education. If you read the description of the textbook on Amazon you will get a feel for the value of this text.
There are some really good advanced grammar textbooks that I have analyzed as well, but they are geared towards educators, linguists, grammarians etc. which I use on a professional level.
All of these books are available on Amazon.
Chao
-LDG.
C
Chip00
Guest
Not to confuse things but conocer is used here with places such as "tu conoces ese lugar bien?"
FYI, IMO the best thing any foreigner can do to make his Spanish better is buy a grammar book or take classes and especially focus on learning the verb tenses thoroughly and placement of direct and indirect object by themselves and with reflexive verbs. This IMO is the hardest thing for most gringos that I know when it comes to speaking Spanish correctly. Knowing this important part of Spanish will enable one to be able to "learn on the fly" because one will be able to understand the majority of the conversation and figure out many meanings of local words and phrases w/o having to use a dictionary.
Chip, that is the one thing i am always studying, verb tenses. and you're right, since i have begun to understand verbs, i do seem to "pick up" most of the conversation. hopefully, before i come to the DR to live once i retire, i will have mastered at least intermediate level...
What I found very helpful in learning languages is to make cards with commonly used verbs and other words you want to memorize and place them everywhere you can see easily - at work, at home, car, etc. The more often you see them, the easier to remember...
C
Chip00
Guest
Norma - la frase "but conocer is used here with places" en ingles no significa que el uso de "conocer" se prohibe en otras formas, sino que es acceptable usarla con el lugar.
Maybe this will help.Norma - la frase "but conocer is used here with places" en ingles no significa que el uso de "conocer" se prohibe en otras formas, sino que es acceptable usarla con el lugar.
If you know about something, then it's saber.
If you know it, like are familiar with, then it's conocer.
Tu sabes de esta pueblo?
Do you know about this town?
Tu conoces esta pueblo?
Do you know this town.
Are you familiar with it.
One last time.
Think of conocer as being associated with intimacy.
Along the lines of your soul.
Saber is cerebral.
Info you have stored in your brain.
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