Salsa dancing in Santo Domingo?

Sep 19, 2005
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well I dont know the difference between any of the styles.....is it how you start

and to me as far as just learning buy listening to the rhythm and JUST dancing.....it would seem like it would take a lot longer to learn

learning the basics cant hurt.. and leads to faster learning.....I personally didnt want to spend a year trying to keep off my GF's new shoes.

ricardo.... the place I am learning is th eonly place that taught even remotely close to where I live....THAT I could find anyway.

I would add that the couple who teach at this school, dance professionally, and have students now that dance professionally...they have a group going to the Miami salsa congress soon.

bob
 

andrea9k

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most non-latin people need a school to learn what comes natural to most latin people... ehem...

I am talking about dancing... :cheeky:
 

Marianopolita

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TD my dear-

It all depends on the skill of the dancer. Some people need to have salsa broken down step by step to understand and follow the rhythm where others can learn by watching or just by dancing with an amateur partner. In my experience learning how to dance via lessons and good teachers is nice if you want to dance salsa at a level above street level. Personally, lessons come in handy for some nice variations other than the common stuff. I don't regret taking lessons (and it was not for the lack of rhythm) it was more so to learn variations that are harder to master just by watching. Just this weekend when I was dancing it was a nice reminder how valuable lessons can be.

-LDG.

Talldrink said:
Dont know if it has been said before in this thread - but what happened with learning by rhythm and just dancing salsa?
 
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Ricardo900

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Jul 12, 2004
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laurapasinifan said:
well I dont know the difference between any of the styles.....is it how you start

and to me as far as just learning buy listening to the rhythm and JUST dancing.....it would seem like it would take a lot longer to learn

learning the basics cant hurt.. and leads to faster learning.....I personally didnt want to spend a year trying to keep off my GF's new shoes.

ricardo.... the place I am learning is th eonly place that taught even remotely close to where I live....THAT I could find anyway.

I would add that the couple who teach at this school, dance professionally, and have students now that dance professionally...they have a group going to the Miami salsa congress soon.

bob

On2 starts with the left-foot stepping backwards and On1 starts with the left-foot stepping forward. The only thing is that it will be hard to find dance partners who dance On2, but you will learn salsa basics, rythm and timing, that you can utilize if you switch over, a lot of excellent dancers style On2, if you go to the Copa on Saturday night, the Copa Girls & Cabana Boys dance on stage with the On2 style, Melanie, Steve, and Juan. Here's a website you should check out. http://www.salsanewyork.com/calendar.htm http://www.salsanewyork.com/ourdancemusic.htm

Enjoy
 

DRPAWA

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Ricardo, you are right about the connection between learning salsa and how this also improves your bachata. I found this to be the case with merengue. My salsa lessons really helped make me a really smooth merenguero.

Ricardo and Talldrink, what if you didn’t grow up dancing it (esp. in the kitchen?). Lesley D. is on point, in any event. There’s more to learn than just the basics.

You are right again Ricardo, I’ve gotten on the dance floor and felt like I didn’t know what I was doing because my partner danced on2 or on1 or the opposite of the style I learned.
 

macocael

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There is not a single dance that requires the man to put his RIGHT foot forward to initiate the dance. The man leads, not the woman. Therefore the first step he takes he moves forward with his LEFT foot, the woman steps back with her RIGHT. This is true of all these dances. You dont begin a merengue or a bachata with your right foot, nor do you do so with salsa. That is just plain wrong. If you do it, you will know instantly, as you will be completely twisted up within the space of a few steps. Look at bachata, which is also a 4/4 rhythm: the man moves FORWARD onthe first step with his LEFT foot. It is true, On2 teaches you to step backward on two, and that is how I was taught. But I suspect there is a reason for this which I will explain, and there is no reason to stick to it if you dont like. The rhythm remains the same whether you move forward or backward.

Now the argument as to on1 or on2 is perpetual among Newyorkers who love to dissect and argue. And Ricardo is right, the on2 is the preferred method for the ball room style. All the oldsters at the Copa dance on2 (the youngsters do both). Go there on a Tuesday night and they will show you. That is their way. They didnt learn this from Eddie Torres in the 70s. Not at all. Nor did they learn this in these ridiculous dance schools that just serve to confuse everyone through their inability to explain things properly or in their haste to oversimplify things so that two-left-foot types can emerge from the class with some sense of forward motion. The dance schools are a problem because they change things round to suit the presumed clumsiness of their students. THere is a lot of pressure to get the "suckers" in there and get them out with smiles on their faces. You dont want your students despairing; you want them to keep taking lessons. Thus they tend to oversimplify and the students come back for more.

Now if you dont believe me, look at old films of the mambo dancers and you will see just what i mean. The on2 step comes from them; that is how they danced mambo, and the dance for salsa is the same. But again as Ricardo points out many today just dance on1. Fine, I got no problem with that, I can do both and I am willing to lead any woman out there in her preferred manner -- but let me add that a truly good lead (which I am not) can move his partner with the mere touch of his hand at the right point in any direction he wishes, because he knows the dance. So if you are a woman and dont feel confident with On2, just find the right partner and you will pick it up. Anyway, On1, On2, in the end it is meaningless and you should try to do both.

However, I stand by my original statement: the on2 step stems from the nature of the rhythm, and if you dance on2 you will feel it. It is simple really. But I wouldnt worry too much whether or not you dance on 1 or on 2, as long as you are enjoying yourself and your partner and you are moving in synch. The idea is to create a synchronicity, that is the essence of dance.

I suspect that On 1 is considered easier to learn and that is why the schools are now turning out more people who dance on1. From what DRPAWA is saying it appears that Eddie Torres is teaching people to move on one, not two (which puzzles me because I danced with Torres and he taught breaking on two). Because if you parse it out, the first step of an eight step sequence beginning on one, would lead you eventually to emphasize beat 5 as well. Actually I think you are just confused DRPAWA: Eddie is still teaching On2, which means that you step back on two, and when you come round to the second half of the sequence you would step forward on 6 (NOT 5, as you stated). That must be it. Anyway, if you understand the clave, then eventually you will see the utter synchronicity of moving on two. You will cleave to the clave. Trust me, it is true. Do you have a sense of rhythm? If you do, you will feel the difference, and there is no greater argument in favor of adopting the step.

Now Bob, I think I know why we have all been taught to move back on the first beat instead of forward. You are being prepared for the basic turn which involves the man taking a step back, signaling with his left hand to the woman that she is about to turn by bringing it down and across your front as you step back. She then steps forward and can make a turn gracefully. she steps into you, and thus keeps the rhythm safely and cannot lose her balance. This is the first turn you learn (or at least it was when I was learning). Perhaps teachers figure it is easier if they start beginnners out in the backwards direction so that there will be no confusion and they can move from the basic step pattern to the next stage when they learn to turn their partner.

While I was taught this too, I find that now I often begin the dance by stepping on two in a forward direction, entering into the sequence in this manner, and then changing up when I come to the second sequence of eight steps, so that I step backward then and vary the movement that way. I see no reason not to proceed in this manner, as the rhythmic emphasis remains the same.

But DRPAWA, none of this explains why you are moving forward on 5 with the RIGHT foot. You will just have to have Eddie explain it all to you. I dont get that. As I said I think you just didnt explain it correctly.

I will try to find a salsa for you where the clave is unmistakeably prominent and you can hear the stuttered clack clack. You see, some of the clacks occur on the upbeat, and that creates the syncopated feeling. Give me a chance. I will return with a recommendation.
 
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Ricardo900

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DRPAWA said:
Ricardo, you are right about the connection between learning salsa and how this also improves your bachata. I found this to be the case with merengue. My salsa lessons really helped make me a really smooth merenguero.

Ricardo and Talldrink, what if you didn?t grow up dancing it (esp. in the kitchen?). Lesley D. is on point, in any event. There?s more to learn than just the basics.

You are right again Ricardo, I?ve gotten on the dance floor and felt like I didn?t know what I was doing because my partner danced on2 or on1 or the opposite of the style I learned.
I learned salsa in the clubs stepping on everybody toes and bumping knees together:laugh: Latinos were very patient with me and taught me how to dance, I still go to dance schools once and a while to learn complicated turn-patterns, dance schools are excellent if you want to show off. Old School salseros don't do complicated turn patterns, they are more with enjoying the song, then showing off. I'll dance bachata and if I see people watching me I will throw in some salsa turns, to get a grin out of them:classic:
 

macocael

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nothing wrong with learning these things just by dancing. That is how I started. I used to go to the copa and dance with anyone who would tolerate a clumsy beginner, and it was fine. But there comes a point where you really want some instruction, learn some shines, learn some more turns, perfect your form (form is important -- people take steps that are too large, violate the "box," dont hold themselves erect, etc). That is when you go to a school. I think beginning with the dance instruction could present problems: too much rationalizing of the dance and you will find yourself analysing every step instead of just moving naturally. Have you ever seen when inexperienced dancers are silently counting to themselves the rhythm? No, I recommend listening to salsa and mambo, finding the really danceable numbers and letting that rhythm sink into your heart, into your pulse. You will find yourself moving naturally and sooner or later everthing falls into place.
 

DRPAWA

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Macocael, sorry I confused the whole issue. It's not right foot forward on five as I wrote earlier. Having gone to the bathroom (didn't want to just get up and dance in the office) and tried it, the man starts with his right foot forward on......... Six. So you are correct, I'm actually doing left back on2! (It's been a while and those lessons were about 10 years agon).
 

DRPAWA

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NOOOOOOOO, Ricardo....

Ricardo900 said:
I learned salsa in the clubs stepping on everybody toes and bumping knees together:laugh: Latinos were very patient with me and taught me how to dance, I still go to dance schools once and a while to learn complicated turn-patterns, dance schools are excellent if you want to show off. Old School salseros don't do complicated turn patterns, they are more with enjoying the song, then showing off. I'll dance bachata and if I see people watching me I will throw in some salsa turns, to get a grin out of them:classic:

Keep these dances pure whenever possible. I understand the smiles you're trying to elicit but remember that dancing the dance (whichever it may be) in the most sensual/natural manner will do that without introducing "foreign" elements into it. Yeah, okay, I understand, you're just having fun! That's cool.
 

Stodgord

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People who learn dancing with numbers look stiffer than a dead person when dancing. 1-2 and 3 won't cut it people. Listen to the music and your body will eventually follow the rhythm.
 

Marianopolita

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Stodgord-

What you say is true to a certain extent. The problem is not all people have rhythm when they dance and specific to Andrea9k's comment not all Latinos have rhythm. I have seen many Latinos that are rhythm-less and much depends on the culture and how much exposure a person has to music.


-LDG.
 
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DRPAWA

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Lesley D said:
What you say is true to a certain extent. The problem is not all people have rhythm when they dance and specific to Andrea9k's comment not all Latinos have rhythm. I have seen many Latinos that are rhythm-less and much depends on the culture and how much exposure a person has to music.


-LDG.

Truer words were never spoken. Just look up my brother!! I only wish that I had the "in the kitchen" learning that Talldrink refers to.
 

macocael

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I am withStodgard on that point. The body has its own "intellect" of sorts, its own physical memory which will allow you to pick up the dance ifyou dont overanalyse it. Just keep listening to the music, it will guide you. And there is so much of it. Dont limit yourself to what the schools will play, much of which is the sappy pop version.

Now DRPAWA, we finally got the steps straightened out -- you really threw me there, and I had to edit that post like three times before I finally sussed out the problem. Btw, dont criticize Ricardo for mixing in a little salsa with his bachata -- believe it or not this is already happening, bachata is changing, developing, getting more interesting as a dance. Before it was the kind of thing you danced drunk in a bordello with a taxi dancer -- so it was slower and simpler; it was meant for close dancing, dancing "apretao." Now the kids are really turning it into something fun. They move much more fluidly than they used to, and while turns are not yet the thing, I think they will be introduced in time. I have been doing it myself (totally throwing my partners for a loop, but it is fun. Harder to do than in salsa though). YOu can see this on DR tv now, and there is ten second spot that interrupts normal programming from time to time to showcase some sensational bachata dancers. Anyway, dances are meant to evolve and change. that is why the whole on1 and on2 debate is really moot -- though as you can see I cleave to the latter and will argue strenuously on its behalf!

Btw, Ricardo, I always believed that Eddie taught breaking on two because he was one of Tito Puente's mambo dancers as a kid. I mean, that is how he explained it. That is where he got it from, I am sure, so I dont know if he just reintroduced it when he was teaching in the 70s, or it was already there all along. I know growing up that my PR friends in fact danced both, but on2 was still considered the mark of the superior salsa dancer. You would walk by the bodegas with willie colon or Raphy Leavitt blasting onto the sidewalk, and the local Don Juan would always impress you with his moves.

Rhythm is not the property of any particular ethnic group, though some groups emphasize its value more than others. The Irish have a great dance tradition, btw, so not all gringos are without the gift. But alot of gringos when they dance tend to bob up and down too much, like a jig or a clog dance, and I think it is part of the European cultural heritage. But i know plenty of latinos who are absolutely terrible dancers. Terrible. I thank god that my daughter appears to have a sense of rhythm.

Btw, I apologize for bashing dance schools, they can in fact be fun, and some of the teachers are marvelous (imagine the patience it requires). And I will say that while Torres is a fine dancer, his wife is a positively sensational dancer, amazing dancer!
 

DRPAWA

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Macocael, I wasn't really critizing Ricardo - it was in kind of a friendly noooooo. Of couse, batacha will evolve.

In a small dance in a barrio that one of my cousins wanted to show me in DR (as we were driving through) I also noticed that those Dominicans were bobbing up and down quite a bit - to merengue!!!

Yes, Maria is quite the dancer (or at least was back when I last saw her).
 

macocael

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The father of the woman who taught me merengue, way back in the days, is a terrible dancer, so much so that at parties the women hide from him, which is difficult as he is also a notorious hound. Anyway, he steps off rhythm, he bobs up and down, he moves left when he should move right -- it is really quite comical. The problem is that he thinks he is a fine dancer. Once when a woman rejected his request to dance, he struck her! He was drunk, and he was a nasty drunk to boot. A huge brawl ensued between the two major clans present at the party (which if I remember correctly was a baptismal party!).

Hey, dancing is serious business!
 

macocael

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DRPAWA one song where youcan hear the clave quite clearly is Raphy Leavitt's Amor y Paz. It opens with just the clave sounding, and then the rest kick in so the normal 4/4 rhythm is established and you can more clearly sense how the two play off each other. That should help for starters. Problem with this song is that is not really too danceable at the opening. I will look for others.
 

DRPAWA

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macocael said:
DRPAWA one song where youcan hear the clave quite clearly is Raphy Leavitt's Amor y Paz. It opens with just the clave sounding, and then the rest kick in so the normal 4/4 rhythm is established and you can more clearly sense how the two play off each other. That should help for starters. Problem with this song is that is not really too danceable at the opening. I will look for others.

Muchas gracias Macocael. I'll check it out tonight.
Hey, are you planning to attend the March 3 DR1 get together at Rancho Jubilee? It would be great talk about this in person.
 

macocael

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have no idea, i am down here in St DOmingo, are we talking the DR crowd or the NY crowd?

Btw, while I think the raphy leavitt example will start you off, i am going to talk to my musicologist friend who can explain this stuff better. May be he can make some good suggestions. It starts to get rather complicated, and frankly I get a little confused by it one he takes off!

Try beating out the 4/4 rhythm while the clave sounds, and you will instantly catch on to the syncopation, though you may also lose the beat promptly. It aint easy!
 

macocael

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Got another good example for you DRPAWA: get a hold of Ruben Blade's album Caminando,and listen to the title song "Caminando": after the verses, the horns really take off and in the back the clave sings. You will hear the chorus "yen yer?" so you know you are in the right place. Song kicks A$%?&!!