I read the info on some website im sorry but I dont recall it...it was some time ago...well i'm from Santo Domingo but my mom was born in bonao and her father in San Fransisco de macoris and her mother was born in la vega...my mothers brothers are ALWAYS called chino they look so native american...especially my grandmother she looks like a Mexican-Mestiza if u ask me and my grandfather he looks straight outa the forest(lol)...I would like to know more information about the Zambos and Maroons in DR...Aso do they know for a fact that there are no people living in mountain ranges or mountins in the whole island of in Hispaniola?(TAINOS and MAROOONS!) this could spark a whole new idea in both Language and culture...I will continue this discussion tomorrow.
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Should Dominican Spanish be its own language like Haitian Creole?
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Re all the lists of Ta?no and African words: Every dialect has its particular words. e.g. In Australia all visiting English speakers have to learn some new words like bonzer, dunny and dags, as well as some unique expressions not found elsewhere in the English-speaking world. In the Spanish-speaking world, Argentinians have their borrowed words from Italian, Andeans use some Quechua and Aymara words in their Spanish too.
The examples given as 'Dominican' as opposed to 'Spanish' like 'to 'ta bien can be heard in many Spanish-speaking countries, including Spain. Presenting these as exclusively Dominican suggests limited exposure to other accents/varieties of Spanish across the Spanish-speaking world.
The examples given as 'Dominican' as opposed to 'Spanish' like 'to 'ta bien can be heard in many Spanish-speaking countries, including Spain. Presenting these as exclusively Dominican suggests limited exposure to other accents/varieties of Spanish across the Spanish-speaking world.
Yeah san francisco de macoris has alot of diversity, the mountains were mostly afro-indegenous as the spanish component has been a later arrival post 1800s.
Yes there are "borrowed" words as you say, if it was only a few dozen then it wouldnt be any different from argentinian spanish, but were talkin about hundreds if not thousands of words. Also dominicans say "como tu ta" instead of "como ta tu" the tu is before the ta, something not present in any other country i know of, and this is also an african trait, similar to how jamaicans saying "me a go" instead of "i'm a go". If you listen closely to the Andean accents, specially Peruvians, Ecuadorians, Bolivians and South Colombians u will notice they sound HIGHLY indegenous, they almost sound like native's who are 1st or 2nd generation learners of spanish, i have a hard time understanding quechua spanish as it is vastly different from dominican spanish.
About spain having some of these dialect features, well Spain's whole southern part, had not only moors and jews but also "sub-saharan" africans, specially post 1400s when Portugal sold hundreds of thousands of Africans to spain, mainly females that were used as maids. Cordoba, and all of Andalucia was highly influence by Sub saharan African, Jewish, Moorish and Gypsy customs. The canary islands was also a pit stop for enslaved africans to the new world, in the same way Cape Verde was a pit stop for the portugese.
I would like to find recordings of these manifestion of Arawak, or Afro-Arawak languages that have survived in D.R. Katherine Green is one ofe the people that have recorded this, but i have had trouble getting in contact with her.
Yes there are "borrowed" words as you say, if it was only a few dozen then it wouldnt be any different from argentinian spanish, but were talkin about hundreds if not thousands of words. Also dominicans say "como tu ta" instead of "como ta tu" the tu is before the ta, something not present in any other country i know of, and this is also an african trait, similar to how jamaicans saying "me a go" instead of "i'm a go". If you listen closely to the Andean accents, specially Peruvians, Ecuadorians, Bolivians and South Colombians u will notice they sound HIGHLY indegenous, they almost sound like native's who are 1st or 2nd generation learners of spanish, i have a hard time understanding quechua spanish as it is vastly different from dominican spanish.
About spain having some of these dialect features, well Spain's whole southern part, had not only moors and jews but also "sub-saharan" africans, specially post 1400s when Portugal sold hundreds of thousands of Africans to spain, mainly females that were used as maids. Cordoba, and all of Andalucia was highly influence by Sub saharan African, Jewish, Moorish and Gypsy customs. The canary islands was also a pit stop for enslaved africans to the new world, in the same way Cape Verde was a pit stop for the portugese.
I would like to find recordings of these manifestion of Arawak, or Afro-Arawak languages that have survived in D.R. Katherine Green is one ofe the people that have recorded this, but i have had trouble getting in contact with her.
The relatively minor linguistic differences between Iberian and Dominican Spanish apart, whether or not something is a language or a dialect is determined by political, social, and historical factors too. Especially if the linguistic differences aren't massive.
Serbian and Croatian were dialects of one Serbo-Croat language, until the Serbia and Croatia became independent, and immediately Serbian and Croatian were announced separate languages. The differences are minimal.
The Dominican Republic has not had the hstorical drive to distinguish and distance itself from Spain as Haiti had from France.
Serbian and Croatian were dialects of one Serbo-Croat language, until the Serbia and Croatia became independent, and immediately Serbian and Croatian were announced separate languages. The differences are minimal.
The Dominican Republic has not had the hstorical drive to distinguish and distance itself from Spain as Haiti had from France.
I agree 100%.I don't think that there are enough differences for it to be considered a patois or a different language. It is still understandable by the rest of the Spanish speaking world.
If it were that different, how would it be that I understand other Spanish speakers from other nations?
This whole thing sounds similar to the French Quebeckers wanting to be a distinct society and identifying their language with their culture, and they would invent any ole' justification to try to do so.
Spanish is spoken in the DR, and a pretty Spanish it is, when well spoken.
The Dominican Republic has not had the hstorical drive to distinguish and distance itself from Spain as Haiti had from France.
Also true.
The Dominican Republic has not had the historical drive to distinguish and distance itself from Spain as Haiti had from France.
Great post ggrande. The above carries much weight and succinctly explains why no Dominican creole.
"Spanish is spoken in the DR, and a pretty Spanish it is, when well spoken."
exactly you said it right there Rocky "...when well spoken" that is the thing the "Spanish" spoken in DR is a dialect of the spanish language with roots in both west African and the Arawak language...
Originally Posted by qgrande
The Dominican Republic has not had the historical drive to distinguish and distance itself from Spain as Haiti had from France.
Actually your not right...DR has always wanted to break away from Spain in the sense that it has always wanted to be independent and have nothing to do with spain...to not cause confusion i'm saying they want nothing to do with Spain not the spanish language...
exactly you said it right there Rocky "...when well spoken" that is the thing the "Spanish" spoken in DR is a dialect of the spanish language with roots in both west African and the Arawak language...
Originally Posted by qgrande
The Dominican Republic has not had the historical drive to distinguish and distance itself from Spain as Haiti had from France.
Actually your not right...DR has always wanted to break away from Spain in the sense that it has always wanted to be independent and have nothing to do with spain...to not cause confusion i'm saying they want nothing to do with Spain not the spanish language...
You've just been hanging with the wrong people."Spanish is spoken in the DR, and a pretty Spanish it is, when well spoken."
exactly you said it right there Rocky "...when well spoken" that is the thing the "Spanish" spoken in DR is a dialect of the spanish language with roots in both west African and the Arawak language...
I know that lots of country bumpkins use weird expressions and have a tendency to not pronounce their words, but that's true anywhere in the world.
Just because some campesinos are not educated is no reason to declare that Dominican Spanish is a different and unique language of it's own, simply because it's not.
You could argue the point 'till you're blue in the face, but the proof is in the pudding, as I mentioned before, I understand and am understood by Spanish speakers of other nations.
You can't argue with results.
I believe that what you mean that you want to break away.Originally Posted by qgrande
The Dominican Republic has not had the historical drive to distinguish and distance itself from Spain as Haiti had from France.
Actually your not right...DR has always wanted to break away from Spain in the sense that it has always wanted to be independent and have nothing to do with spain...to not cause confusion i'm saying they want nothing to do with Spain not the spanish language...
I think that your statement above is no more correct that what would apply to Canada or the US breaking away from Great Britain, and they still speak English.
Well I have found some more African words to add to the list...
Banfora
Bagabunda
pama.......very similar to 'pa ma(Para Mas)
Titao
Abanze.....City in Ghana
Kati.......city in Mali
Sanga/Sangana
Bida......very similar to Vida
Ede
Ondo
Suleja
Sampare
Yola
Uyo...may be refering to Oyo
Ghana/gana
kara........very similar to cara
Lome
Abriz......from Angola
Benguela
Tome
Tanguita
Banfora
Bagabunda
pama.......very similar to 'pa ma(Para Mas)
Titao
Abanze.....City in Ghana
Kati.......city in Mali
Sanga/Sangana
Bida......very similar to Vida
Ede
Ondo
Suleja
Sampare
Yola
Uyo...may be refering to Oyo
Ghana/gana
kara........very similar to cara
Lome
Abriz......from Angola
Benguela
Tome
Tanguita
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yes Rocky but just because they do speak english doesnt mean they are attached to England...so if you say campesinos arent educated because they speak this way are you saying that Haitians arent educated because the speak Creole?
Nope.yes Rocky but just because they do speak english doesnt mean they are attached to England...so if you say campesinos arent educated because they speak this way are you saying that Haitians arent educated because the speak Creole?
Didn't say that and it wouldn't be true.
Haitian Creole is a different language.
I speak French and don't understand a word they say.
Alot of people in this thread make it seem like its a bad thing that DR has its own dialect of the spanish language as I call it...but the fact is that it ISN"T!...this is how new languages are created by the addition of words from others and a vulger way of speaking another for example the French Language is VULGER Latin...like Dominican Spanish is Vulgar Spanish with the addition of Houndreds maybe Thousands of Afrikan and Arawak words...
They understand me and Dominican Spanish is the only one I know.well would a person from spain Fully undrstand a Dominican?
You're right.Alot of people in this thread make it seem like its a bad thing that DR has its own dialect of the spanish language as I call it...but the fact is that it ISN"T!...this is how new languages are created by the addition of words from others and a vulger way of speaking another for example the French Language is VULGER Latin...like Dominican Spanish is Vulgar Spanish with the addition of Houndreds maybe Thousands of Afrikan and Arawak words...
It is perceived as a bad thing.
Remember the Tower of Babylon !!!!
Wouldn't the world be simpler if we all understood each other?
And you want to invent a new language.......
Some words might sound like words used in D.R but don't have the same meaning, for a word to clasify as African in Dominican speech it must also carry the same meaning in the african country. For Example, from that list, some of those are spanish words, such as Ondo, pama and maybe vagabundo., definetly bida. I'll give you an example.
The word toto comes from the Kikongo word Ntoto, which means birth place aka the earth, that is compatible with the dominican definition of vagina, which is our birthplace.
Or the word Abombarse which comes from the Kongo word Boumba which means excessive water or river.
Some don't refer to a specific meaning but to an ethnic group, region or river in africa. For example Mondongo is named after an ethnic group from the Kongo kingdom called Mondongo, they must've brought the dish with them. Kinda like how we call chinese food chinese, even though china has hundreds of ethnic groups.
The word toto comes from the Kikongo word Ntoto, which means birth place aka the earth, that is compatible with the dominican definition of vagina, which is our birthplace.
Or the word Abombarse which comes from the Kongo word Boumba which means excessive water or river.
Some don't refer to a specific meaning but to an ethnic group, region or river in africa. For example Mondongo is named after an ethnic group from the Kongo kingdom called Mondongo, they must've brought the dish with them. Kinda like how we call chinese food chinese, even though china has hundreds of ethnic groups.
Well I have found some more African words to add to the list...
Banfora
Bagabunda
pama.......very similar to 'pa ma(Para Mas)
Titao
Abanze.....City in Ghana
Kati.......city in Mali
Sanga/Sangana
Bida......very similar to Vida
Ede
Ondo
Suleja
Sampare
Yola
Uyo...may be refering to Oyo
Ghana/gana
kara........very similar to cara
Lome
Abriz......from Angola
Benguela
Tome
Tanguita
souljanyn3;606356DR has always wanted to break away from Spain in the sense that it has always wanted to be independent and have nothing to do with spain...[/quote said:Of course the Dominican Republic values its independence, but it does not have the tense relationship with Spain that some countries have with their former colonisators. After all, the Dominican Republic did not gain its independence from Spain.
The Dominican Republic has not had the historical drive to distinguish and distance itself from Spain as Haiti had from France.
A further explanation of the above is that historically there was a movement for independence from Spain, but for very different reasons than Haiti from France. Were as the independence of Haiti was achieved by black slaves, the Dominican independence (The Restoration) was achieved by folks who were not slaves but rather descendants of Spain. What follows is that language, customs, religion etc were retained from Spain and not rejected, much like the US with England.
Which brings us back to the language thingy. Creole developed as a distinct language with a French foundation but nonetheless different. It was partly developed because of the different languages spoken by the large number of slaves brought over from different Western African countries. The slaves had to find ways to communicate with each other as well as the slave owners, the French. It was like a sancocho made out of many ingredients in this case languages with French as the pot. No such situation existed in the Dominican Republic.
An incorporation of words from the Tainos or African influences does not make a Dominican creole, just like the case with other LA countries. After the Spanish conquest the Spanish language became the dominant language and now its the official one.
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