- Thread starter juancarlos
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Social Class vs. Economic Class
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I must continue to agree with TonyC. Here's my last 2 cents:
Unless you are a member of the elite, you will never understand. Being a member of the elite, is not about money alone, it's about class, style, heritage, and depending on where you live, sometimes ethnicity.
Unless you are a member of the elite, you will never understand. Being a member of the elite, is not about money alone, it's about class, style, heritage, and depending on where you live, sometimes ethnicity.
all your comments sound like the commoners we all are.
by
heritage
class
style
ethnicity
give me a break. Money creates what type of person you pretend to be.
there are several housekeepers who can have the same mannerisms, style as an "elite" person. Thats self taught or if you
pay the "Money" to go to such schools.
Its not a birth right its Luck.
If elites could "born" themselves into eliteness than I could say...damn that person is elite.
money, money, money.
I could teach my kids to act in a manner in which you say, classifies an elite.
If you name me one elite person, and I would show you there family came up by the boot straps they paid 1 million dollars for.
i.e. The Kennedys.
Don't mentioned Royalty.....the commoners allow them to exist.
Shall I mentioned the Czars of Russia. The whole family wiped out by commoners because they took there so called eliteness to far.
How about France.....no more elite royal family there.....they all got beheaded.
by
heritage
class
style
ethnicity
give me a break. Money creates what type of person you pretend to be.
there are several housekeepers who can have the same mannerisms, style as an "elite" person. Thats self taught or if you
pay the "Money" to go to such schools.
Its not a birth right its Luck.
If elites could "born" themselves into eliteness than I could say...damn that person is elite.
money, money, money.
I could teach my kids to act in a manner in which you say, classifies an elite.
If you name me one elite person, and I would show you there family came up by the boot straps they paid 1 million dollars for.
i.e. The Kennedys.
Don't mentioned Royalty.....the commoners allow them to exist.
Shall I mentioned the Czars of Russia. The whole family wiped out by commoners because they took there so called eliteness to far.
How about France.....no more elite royal family there.....they all got beheaded.
Ahem....with all due.....
As for the Russians, some royalty [not from Czar's family] escaped the Communists and took up residence, mainly in France. They, even today, are practically worshiped when they return "home" for a visit. Strange, but true.
Bottom line: you can't buy your way into the Almanach du Gotha.
Best, P
PS - don't say it Criss!
respect, there was a parvenu called Napoleon, who, just a few years after the Revolution managed to crown himself Emperor [not King] and the House of Bourbon came back as royalty just after him. The last of that line, Comte de Paris, just passed away recently...take it for real, Europeans still give all due deference and respect to even the poorest members of a royal line. The French military crawls with them. The name counts for a lot....anywhere in Europe.sancochojoe said:
As for the Russians, some royalty [not from Czar's family] escaped the Communists and took up residence, mainly in France. They, even today, are practically worshiped when they return "home" for a visit. Strange, but true.
Bottom line: you can't buy your way into the Almanach du Gotha.
Best, P
PS - don't say it Criss!
pasha,
just what you have mentioned how the people well recieved them when they go home is my point. The common people create these elite people. They don't create themselves. look at the Brits, they cry for the royal family who absolutly do nothing for the people of England except spend money.
Without the people putting you there, you will not become an elite person, and if you cross that line, the people will drag you down, just as fast.
just what you have mentioned how the people well recieved them when they go home is my point. The common people create these elite people. They don't create themselves. look at the Brits, they cry for the royal family who absolutly do nothing for the people of England except spend money.
Without the people putting you there, you will not become an elite person, and if you cross that line, the people will drag you down, just as fast.
I actually feel sorry for those who claim to be the "Elite Class". Those are the ones who feel totally worhtless in society. As individuals, they are less than worthless because they do not contribute to society. They do not work. They just consume resrouces. Many of them end up with substance abuse problems. They cannot get into an Ivy League school without their "Name" running interference. These people are pathetic. I have run into quite a few of them. The especially obnoxious ones were from Latin America. Most of them couldn't hold my jockstrap.
BTW, Robert, feel free to D-Elite any of these posts!!!
BTW, Robert, feel free to D-Elite any of these posts!!!
I think it has more to do with how we perceive ourselves!
I consider myself to be "above" any "class" distinction. I have therefore the ability to "fit-in",or be "at ease" with any and all Social Strata.
I am most comfortable with people who have worked hard,and "Smart", and made a few $$$$ along the way.People who don't take themselves seriously,and know that "none" of us are "Better" than "any" of us.
I don't like people who live on "welfare",and don't respect those who live on "Daddy's" money either!
I like many of the people who post on DR1 for example!
I think this "Class" discussion,is a "smokescreen" for what we are really talking about which is "Class" based on "Color"! We have come a long way in not judging a person by "color" .We have "MILES" to go on that journey!"Talking" openly about it is an important step on that journey!
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I consider myself to be "above" any "class" distinction. I have therefore the ability to "fit-in",or be "at ease" with any and all Social Strata.
I am most comfortable with people who have worked hard,and "Smart", and made a few $$$$ along the way.People who don't take themselves seriously,and know that "none" of us are "Better" than "any" of us.
I don't like people who live on "welfare",and don't respect those who live on "Daddy's" money either!
I like many of the people who post on DR1 for example!
I think this "Class" discussion,is a "smokescreen" for what we are really talking about which is "Class" based on "Color"! We have come a long way in not judging a person by "color" .We have "MILES" to go on that journey!"Talking" openly about it is an important step on that journey!
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Colon you and others always preaching that
if your wealthy you worked hard......whattttt ever, that argument
is so old and overused by people who did not earn what they got.
you dont like people who depend on welfare and live on DADDY's money, well it sounds like your sexing many of them same people based on your past posts. You think they are giving it up because your a swell guy.
Color will always come to play if the majority of people on the island are of color yet the so called elite tend to be of a fair complexion. Of course that argument will be used. Thats automatic.
Colon, You only fit in simply because your white and the perception of a white face in any poor country is wealth, even if you are poor as dirt. Thats just a historical perception.
I'm glad that i'm not a person who marginalizes others because of their "economic" background. People who know me can see that my circle of friends range from wealthy to foodstamps I don't discriminate. I only wish people would do the same.
You would think if people with money who choose to live in a Poor country like the Dominican Republic, they would be just as humble, but I guess not. They have to bring that same way of thinking from their home country to another.
"You can take the tiger out the jungle, but you can't take the jungle out of the tiger."
if your wealthy you worked hard......whattttt ever, that argument
is so old and overused by people who did not earn what they got.
you dont like people who depend on welfare and live on DADDY's money, well it sounds like your sexing many of them same people based on your past posts. You think they are giving it up because your a swell guy.
Color will always come to play if the majority of people on the island are of color yet the so called elite tend to be of a fair complexion. Of course that argument will be used. Thats automatic.
Colon, You only fit in simply because your white and the perception of a white face in any poor country is wealth, even if you are poor as dirt. Thats just a historical perception.
I'm glad that i'm not a person who marginalizes others because of their "economic" background. People who know me can see that my circle of friends range from wealthy to foodstamps I don't discriminate. I only wish people would do the same.
You would think if people with money who choose to live in a Poor country like the Dominican Republic, they would be just as humble, but I guess not. They have to bring that same way of thinking from their home country to another.
"You can take the tiger out the jungle, but you can't take the jungle out of the tiger."
sancochojoe said:
Sacocho,
You still don't get it.
Money doesn't buy you entrance. There are many social circles in the DR where they could care less how much money you have, you are still not getting in. Sosa, Oprah, Gates might by themselves into some functions but they will NEVER be accepted.
The problem is you do not understand who and what the elite are. The Kennedy's are not considered the elite in the US. The Media might say so but it doesn't matter. The Kennedy's are not even looked well upon by the Irish Elite.
Your examples of France and Russia are not good choices. Both Revolutions, like all sucessfull revolutions, were lead by the Rich and the Elite. The Masses where just troops.
"Joe" wake up and "Smell The Cafe"!
You can't be an American,we are not that Ignorant! You didn't read my post! I am NOT wealthy! I did work "Smart" to get what I have.I continue to do so.
My mother always said that "God really loved poor people,he made so many of them"!
I "screw" poor girls,I don't LIKE them!!!!!!!!!!
I live in the DR because even a fat ugly stupid old man like me is better than anything a local girl can find here!
Reading your posts is like trying to have a conversation with someone who is spaced out on drugs! What is with you?
I think we are both married to Dominicans,is that not true?
IS your "N" key missing???
You can't be an American,we are not that Ignorant! You didn't read my post! I am NOT wealthy! I did work "Smart" to get what I have.I continue to do so.
My mother always said that "God really loved poor people,he made so many of them"!
I "screw" poor girls,I don't LIKE them!!!!!!!!!!
I live in the DR because even a fat ugly stupid old man like me is better than anything a local girl can find here!
Reading your posts is like trying to have a conversation with someone who is spaced out on drugs! What is with you?
I think we are both married to Dominicans,is that not true?
IS your "N" key missing???
hahahha, you guys are funny
Colon,
it pains you to dialog with someone that does not agree with you.
I understand your pain. Don't fret.
The question is do you have the backbone to dialog with someone you disagree with before name calling or interogative questions of who I am or anybody else starts to come out. I'll leave that mystery and agony with you.
Tony -
I think you are romanticising the idea of what elite is, and thats why you can't agree with me. Thats ok. Stay in your fantasy world.
Tony please I beg you, list some names of this so called elite you are referring to, i'm curious. Thats the only way I can understand where you come from.
This elite that you are referring to that won't let people in sounds more like a membership to a golf course than to this secret society your referring too.
Its just a battle of what we define as elite. Yours is different from mine and thats where we stand. I simply don't romanticize the idea.
Colon,
it pains you to dialog with someone that does not agree with you.
I understand your pain. Don't fret.
The question is do you have the backbone to dialog with someone you disagree with before name calling or interogative questions of who I am or anybody else starts to come out. I'll leave that mystery and agony with you.
Tony -
I think you are romanticising the idea of what elite is, and thats why you can't agree with me. Thats ok. Stay in your fantasy world.
Tony please I beg you, list some names of this so called elite you are referring to, i'm curious. Thats the only way I can understand where you come from.
This elite that you are referring to that won't let people in sounds more like a membership to a golf course than to this secret society your referring too.
Its just a battle of what we define as elite. Yours is different from mine and thats where we stand. I simply don't romanticize the idea.
sancochojoe said:hahahha, you guys are funny
Tony -
I think you are romanticising the idea of what elite is, and thats why you can't agree with me. Thats ok. Stay in your fantasy world.
Tony please I beg you, list some names of this so called elite you are referring to, i'm curious. Thats the only way I can understand where you come from.
This elite that you are referring to that won't let people in sounds more like a membership to a golf course than to this secret society your referring too.
Its just a battle of what we define as elite. Yours is different from mine and thats where we stand. I simply don't romanticize the idea.
I totally agree. I asked him who some of these elite were so I could try to grasp this but he said think Old New England families. I live in New England and have no idea who these people could possibly be and if they do exist, okay then what? No one even knows who they are and if they don't let people like Bill Gates, Oprah and Jordan in they're silly. I'd much rather hang with Jordan than some stuffy old New England family.
I think those who believe in this Elite Class are making it bigger than what it is and have conjured up this idea in their imagination.
Tony keeps talking about they'll associate with Sosa, Gates, Jordan, etc... but won't let them in. Let them into what? A club? A golf course? A certain neighborhood? I'm just not getting what this elite class has that makes them so special that Rich Americans who actually earned their money doesn't have.
So my question is this, Okay say I'm an Elite and I'm in. What is it that I'm exactly into? By being a part of this class what benefits am I getting that Jordan and Winfrey can't get? Is it money connections? Jordan,Winfrey, Gates, Sosa don't need money connections so that's not a benefit. Is it respect? Well Jordan and Co. are the most respected people in their professions so again no benefit. Is it power networking connections? Again, Jordan, Oprah and Gates are probably the most powerful people in their field.
This whole idea a powerful "elite class" would make a really good movie but it's not reality. Tony and those guys have conjured this up to be something bigger than it is. It's like daydreaming about a moviestar like Tom Cruise or somebody. You dream about him making love to you with his big strong muscles and whisking you off away to paradise and then you actually meet him and realize he's only 5'5", bad breath, has a strong body oder, and wears dirty underwear and realize he's not really all that.
Smooches...Clip.
In Boston,Its the Cabots and the Lodges!
No Irish,Italian,Blacks or Catholics need apply!!
There is your "Short List"! CC
No Irish,Italian,Blacks or Catholics need apply!!
There is your "Short List"! CC
No doubt much....
Best, P
truth in your comments, esp the jockstrap one. Assume that you are aware of the 4-decades long great "leveling" programs American universities, in particular Ivy League ones, have of recruiting heavily from disadvantaged [read black specifically] classes -- and it's been for the most part a failure. It is skin color, not their names, that have resulted in lesser qualified students taking seats that should have been allocated only on basis of capability and merit. To my way of thinking, that is as bad or worse than having some rich alumnus dad get his dim son into a good school.mondongo said:
Best, P
Why hate the elites? They have done nothing wrong. So what that they live in a mansion one million times the size of the shacks out side their property. So what if they drive on their Jaguars right by the most humble of markets. So what, so what, so what. And who cares about being accepted into that caste system. The dominican true elite are those blanquitos in the Jardines neighborhood of Santiago. They were rich during colonial times, they were rich during trujillo, they are rich during the hippo years, and they will continue to be the real rich folks of dominicana up until the end of the world. Everybody else, rich or not, will not, I repeat, will not make it into the Elite group. And so what! If you have $$$ and they don't let you play at the STO. DGO. Country club, well then build your own for the new elites. If they don't want you to drive their benz, then drive a bentley, if they don't want you in Santiago, then live in SD. Life is simple. And it's true about the elites creating culture. Those of Santiago are the decendants of the real dominicans. Merengue was not dominican, until they said so. Sancocho was not the national dish until they said so. Quite frankly, Haitians will continue to be hated until they say so. The elite of Santiago rule. Those of Santo Domingo should stop trying to "fit in" or complaint and should create their own little Elite club which with time will also become as restrictive as those of Santiago today. I love the Elites, if it wasn't for them, dominican culture might have been something more Haitian than anything else. There is nothing wrong with that, but considering the many holocaust dominicana suffered at the hands of the Haitians, the last thing the elites wants is for their country to seem like another Haiti. I don't really know why this conversation even came up. Poor dominicans (even after the protest) claim to be happy anyways. Middle class dominicans claim to be happy anyways. Rich dominicans claime to be happy anyways. So what is the problem????
For Clippedwing
The benefit is more of an ideology more than anything else. It's of being "original" of the rich of the rich. Oprah, Jordan will never be consider to be Originals because they were born poor. It will take a few generations for that to occur. In Dominicana, being elite is of being part of the originals that came to the island in colonial times and striked it rich. It's about everybody knowing that you are a much more dominican or original person than most because of that legacy from your heritage. That's why Sosa will never be consider Elite. Rich yes, Elite no. For one thing, he is black from San Pedro. Most of San Pedro's black came as cane cutter from the british west indies. They came to work for the Elites. The elites still feel that Sosa is less than they are because the only reason why he exist, is due to the elites ancestors desire to make more money at the hands of the poor. It's all about image, class, and what happened in the past. Don't think that I am racist or anything, because I am not. I am simply telling it how it is. This is how it is from Mexico down to Argentina. America need no apply. The elites of the USA don't take the pride their latin counterparts take, in part because the new riches have outnumbered the old money and in part because anglo-new worlders have a different approach to seeing life and class.
The benefit is more of an ideology more than anything else. It's of being "original" of the rich of the rich. Oprah, Jordan will never be consider to be Originals because they were born poor. It will take a few generations for that to occur. In Dominicana, being elite is of being part of the originals that came to the island in colonial times and striked it rich. It's about everybody knowing that you are a much more dominican or original person than most because of that legacy from your heritage. That's why Sosa will never be consider Elite. Rich yes, Elite no. For one thing, he is black from San Pedro. Most of San Pedro's black came as cane cutter from the british west indies. They came to work for the Elites. The elites still feel that Sosa is less than they are because the only reason why he exist, is due to the elites ancestors desire to make more money at the hands of the poor. It's all about image, class, and what happened in the past. Don't think that I am racist or anything, because I am not. I am simply telling it how it is. This is how it is from Mexico down to Argentina. America need no apply. The elites of the USA don't take the pride their latin counterparts take, in part because the new riches have outnumbered the old money and in part because anglo-new worlders have a different approach to seeing life and class.
Re: For Clippedwing
Striked it rich....That I guess address to true issue, at least for the carribean. Since the resources at that time was agrigulture, and the only people to work the land at that time were slaves, then I guess the elite for Dominicana were Slave owners......ok, now I understand. You become an elite when you make your wealth off the backs of others......hmmmm interesting.
not attacking you Nal0whs, just addressing the point you made.
Nal0whs said:
Striked it rich....That I guess address to true issue, at least for the carribean. Since the resources at that time was agrigulture, and the only people to work the land at that time were slaves, then I guess the elite for Dominicana were Slave owners......ok, now I understand. You become an elite when you make your wealth off the backs of others......hmmmm interesting.
not attacking you Nal0whs, just addressing the point you made.
Basically, that is my point. Those elite of Santiago tend to be large land owners. They practically own the entire Cibao Valley (which has the deepest top soil in the world). Ever heard of the Cigar industry? Rum industry? Banana industry? All of that is being created and pocketed by the chopos in Santiago. Sugar was very very lucrative in colonial times. In fact, in the 1920s one pound of sugar was being sold in the international markets at $22. That is in Dollars. It's was the oil of those times. Guess who owned most of the Sugar Cane plantations? THE ELITES. After them, American companies were the second largest landholders (they gave up their properties in the 1950s, once sugar became worthless). That is the case all over the world. The old money made their wealth directly or indirectly from the Slave trade. What separates the old money from Anglo-American and those from Latin America is pride more than anything else.
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