Spanish Rock!

[Tony C]

Re: DR rock

First, let me say that listening to rock in spanish(not Spanish rock since all rock in Spanish is not from Spain) is like listening to merengue in English. In other words....it stinks.

TW

Hey! That's my line!

Hell it is even hard to find good Rock in English these days.

Anybody remember Los Brahmins? How about that stupid Dominican Hippie wannabee, Diaz? They were the Domincan Rock bands during the 80's. They sucked so bad we went to their shows to make fun of them.

I was a member of a Ex-pat Garage band back then and we openned for Los Brahmins once just for the hell of it. We sucked also. Funny thing was that when we played the 5 songs we knew and left the stage the crowd booed Los Brahmins when they took the stage.

 

[diablorojo]

Rock in the Spanish language is great.......Its a misconception to say that the groups imitate western ones.......you can say that all American groups sound the same, and that all British ones do as well if you follow that logic..... The reality is that the groups simply choose a certain style of music and find their niche within it.......

Groups like La Ley, Alex Sintek, Molotov, Los Prisioneros, El Tri, Seguridad Social, Los Enenitos Verdes, Aterciopelados, and Mana(before their songs all started to sound alike) are classic groups.....they each have their own style, and message which caters to the generation they inspire......the lyrics, image, and message are extremely different from western bands.....so don't confuse similar musical genre with imitation......

As far as Dominican rock goes.....mmmmmm lets just say its "not well developed" yet to put it nicely

Los Prisioneros are the best, even my professors are totally into them......they are the voice of a whole generation, of you intellectuals......their message is very profound.....Duran Duran can only dream of having such an effect on an entire continent

Their lyrics are OUR voice.....they imitate no one

Latinoamerica Es Un Pueblo Al Sur De E.E.U.U.

Para turistas gente curiosa,
es un sitio exotico para visitar
Es solo un lugar economico,
pero inadecuado para habitar
Les ofrecen Latinoamerica,
el Carnaval de Rio y las Ruinas Aztecas
Gente sucia vagando en las calles,
dispuesta a venderse por algunos USA dollars

Nadie en el resto del planeta toma en serio
a este inmenso pueblo lleno de tristeza
Se sonrien cuando ven que tiene veintitantas banderitas
Cada cual mas orgullosa de su soberania
Que tonteria!
Dividir es debilitar
Las potencias son los protectores
que prueban sus armas en nuestras guerrillas
Ya sean rojos o rayados a la hora del final no hay
diferencia
Invitan a nuestros lideres a vender su alma al
diablo verde
Inventan bonitas siglas para que se sientan
un poco mas importantes
Y el inocente pueblo de Latinoamerica
llorara si muere Ronald Reagan o la Reina
Y le sigue paso a paso la vida a Carolina
como si esa gente sufriera del subdesarrollo
Estamos en un hoyo! parece que en realidad...

Latinoamerica es un pueblo al sur de
Estados Unidos...

Para que se sientan en familia
copiamos sus barrios y su estilo de vida
We try to talk in the Jet-Set languaje
para que no nos crean incivilizados
Cuando visitamos sus ciudades
nos fichan y tratan como a delincuentes
Rusos, ingleses, gringos, franceses
se rien de nuestros novelescos directores
Somos un pueblito tan simpatico
que todos nos ayudan si se trata de ua guerra armar
Pero esa misma cantidad de oro la podrian dar
para encontrar la solucion definitiva al hambre
Latinoamerica es grande
Debe aprender a decidir

Latinoamerica es un pueblo al sur de Estados
Unidos...

 

[CaribbeanGeorge]

Rock

Most of the groups you mention are from Mexico, there is a wide variety in styles.
Most of this groups have been around more than you think, Mana for example came from when Yamaha Festivals in Mexico City promoted contest in a yearly basis with a prize for the 1st place of a contract with a major record label.
By then Mana was called "Sombrero Verde" and it sucked, they used to look like a cheap copy of the Cure, so as its music.
Then after most of this groups were managed in their image and content by their managers of the record labels, such as Sony Mexico.
The groups and their songs correspond to the socio-economic sectors they have emerged, so to say, Molotov will be listened by Gang boys in ghetto areas, and Alex Syntec would be listened by preppy boys in nice discos.
My Favorites are:
Cafe Tacuba, La Maldita Vecindad, La Lupita (Lino guitar man used to be my guitarrist 15yrs ago), Botellita de Jerez, Alex Syntec, El Tri, Tex Tex, Molotov, Resorte, etc.
On the soft side definetely Kabah.

 

[MrMike]

Spanish (language) rock groups are great, the only spanish (language) genre in music where there's any chance for depth and perception in lyrics.

You should check out Heroes del Silencio when you get a chance, it's older stuff, kind of the spanish equivelant of Led Zeppelin, though from a later time period (mostly the 80's I think).

Latin American Pop culture is (in my worthless opinion) about 10 years behind Europe and North America, so spanish rock from the 80's is a fair approximation of classic rock from the 70's.

It's funny how in Europe and North America we borrow so much from traditional Latin and African music in terms of rhythms and instrumentation, and then 10 years later they recycle it all over again and serve it back to us.

 

[diablorojo]

Latin America pop culture is not "stagnant"....it does not lag 10 years behind anyone.....The same currents in art, music, and fashion which are found in Europe are found in Latin America at the same time, some 2 to 5 years before they make it to the states! Of course some remote Amazon village will not be as up to date.... but then Mississippi is no hot bed of "culture" either....

Latin American pop culture has 2 fronts, national culture which evolves on its own...and is not dependent on foreign influences for its perpetuation nor survival, and then what can be termed as "modern international culture" which is the continent's link to Europe......and thats the trends in techno, rock, fashion, that come from there...... The two cultural strains complement each other, enrich each other.....

 

[Tony C]

Latin America pop culture is not "stagnant"....it does not lag 10 years behind anyone.....The same currents in art, music, and fashion which are found in Europe are found in Latin America at the same time, some 2 to 5 years before they make it to the states!

You can't give the US credit for anything can you?

Pop Music came from American popular folk Music. It Grew into Pop Music with the invention of the Phonograph which brought music to the large audience. Hence the Term Pop(Popular) music.

Rock & Roll is American Music which derives itself from the Blues. The blues came from Old negro Spirituals of the Agrarian Southern US.

Most Popular culture starts in the US. Sure some is transplanted and modified in Europe but it still is mainly created in the US. Europe has been a wasteland for Popular Culture since the start of WWII.
Name me one major popular movement that was created in Europe since then!
Aside from a handful of music styles that have had mediocre success, Latin America has not had much influence on Popular Culture worldwide.
In the Last 30 years the 3 most popular Latin singers, Gloria Estefan, Julio Iglesias & Ricky Martin have all acheived their major success buy singing American Style Pop Tunes!

Latin American Literature is left wing drivel for the most part.

Art? Aside from Britto it is not worth mentioning.

Theatre? Is there any?

Cinema? A few Mexican films made by US trained Directors!

 

[CaribbeanGeorge]

Hmmm Hmmm

Cinema? A few Mexican films made by US trained Directors!

Let me remind you about some films from the Mexican/Cuban production not US trained Directors, that have made their way to some international awards, like, como agua para chocolate, azucar amargo, el pecado del padre amaro, etc.
Yankees think they know it all....
How about this article from AFP
Acapara sexo y guerra en cines de Bagdad


Desde mayo, luego de la guerra, las salas de cine ofrecen por medio d?lar pel?culas del tipo que estaban prohibidas en el r?gimen de Hussein

AFP

Bagdad, Iraq (14 septiembre 2003).- Son tan s?lo las once de la ma?ana y en la c?ntrica calle Al-Saadun de Bagdad decenas de iraqu?es aguardan impacientes el inicio de "Depredador sexual", una vieja pel?cula pornogr?fica estadounidense que bate r?cords de taquilla en la capital iraqu?.

Desde el pasado mayo, cuando reabrireron sus puertas tras la guerra, la decena de salas de cine que se reparte por la avenida ofrece programas similares por 1.000 dinares (medio d?lar): pel?culas de sexo y guerra, de preferencia "made in USA", es decir todo lo que fue prohibido tajantemente bajo el r?gimen dictatorial de Saddam Hussein.

Este domingo, decenas de hombres de edades diversas se agolpaban con mirada golosa ante las fotograf?as de mujeres ba??ndose desnudas en una playa o de parejas en plena actividad sexual exhibidas ante la puerta del conocido cine Samiramis.

Por falso pudor o por atraer a estos hombres al interior de la sala, las partes ?ntimas de las mujeres han sido cubiertas con estrellitas negras o m?nimas ropas interiores pintadas a mano por los propios empleados.

"La primera sesi?n comienza a las 10 de la ma?ana y la ?ltima a las tres de la tarde. Antes, ?ste era un cine de familia con pel?culas aptas para todos los p?blicos. El negocio tras la guerra funciona bien aunque no podemos hacer sesiones nocturnas debido al toque de queda", explica a la AFP el propietario del cine Samiramis, que dice llamarse Hassam.

En todos los cines de la avenida, la entrada a las mujeres y a los menores de 18 a?os est? prohibida, aunque nadie pide una identificaci?n a los j?venes a la entrada.

"Nuestras mujeres no pueden ver este tipo de im?genes. No es bueno para ellas", explican rotundos numerosos espectadores mientras se someten a un control para ver si portan armas, que deben obligatoriamente ser guardadas en la recepci?n.

Los propietarios de los cines, muchos de ellos inaugurados en la d?cada de los 70, reconocen que cambiaron radicalmente el programa tras la ca?da del r?gimen. Para ellos, la libertad reci?n adquirida signific? traer sin demasiado criterio del exterior las im?genes que les estuvieron prohibidas durante a?os.

Seg?n afirman, su cartelera no se compone s?lo de sexo, sino tambi?n "pel?culas de acci?n", es decir "Terminator" y otras producci?nes del mismo g?nero, como si las guerras reales que el pueblo iraqu? ha sufrido no fuesen suficientes.

"Ya no queremos m?s pel?culas hechas en los pa?ses ?rabes, preferimos largometrajes rom?nticos rodados en Europa o Estados Unidos", explica Al? Hussein, que acude a ver "Bella donna", dirigida por el brasile?o Fabio Barreto en el cine Atlas.

Ante las im?genes de exuberantes mujeres desnudas mostradas ante la puerta del cine Al Nayum, tambi?n en la misma calle, los hombres restan pasmados.

"Las ?nicas mujeres que conocemos son las nuestras, que se visten de negro y se cubren el pelo. Por eso creemos que todas las mujeres extranjeras son como las de pel?culas", asegura un joven que no sabe ni siquiera el t?tulo del largometraje que se dispone a ver.

 

[naiz]

i really like para amar and esrechez de corazon from los prisioneros.

also soda estereo is a great latin band.

 

[mondongo]

Rock in Spanish makes me wanna hurl.

 

[Keith R]

Latin American Literature is left wing drivel for the most part.

Drivel???? Jorge Luis Borges? Julio Cort?zar? Jorge Amado? Euclides da Cunha? Gabriel Garcia Marquez (leftist, yes, but drivel, no!)? Carlos Fuentes? Octavio Paz (have you read the El laberinto de la soledad?)? Sor Juana? Rub?n Dar?o? Mario Vargas Llosa?

As for Latin American cinema, there is a thriving and quite creative Brazilian film industry (has been for decades), and many of their finer directors are not US-trained....

 

[Tony C]

Keith.

I said for "the most part" Vargas Llosa is good. But most of the rest are drivel.

There have been some great movies out of Brazil but they are patterned after basic American movie formula. They have met with little or no success outside of Brazil.

Caribbean George,
Como Agua para Chocolate? The Mexican Version of "Bridges of Madison County? Pure Hollywood Chick Flick!
Azucar Amargo? Not bad but still a Hollywood formula!
Haven't seen El pecado de padre Amaro but I am not holding my breath on that one.

I am talking about real innovation here. Where is the Next D.W. Griffth? Keaten? Bergman? Hitchcock? Fellini? Coppola? Lucas? Not in Latin America thats for sure.
Remember we are talking Pop Culture here. For the masses.

 

[Jon S.]

Wow, I just got a flashback after reading Maldita Vecindad............some of the craziest SOBs I've seen yet. I saw them, Alex Syntek, some group from South America and crazy-ass Alejandra Guzman perform in some concert down in DR. Alex Syntek was a bore, the group from South America sucked, the Dominican group that opened for them really sucked ( I had hope for them until I heard them, can't and don't wanna remember their name), Alejandra Guzman was a blur of cartwheels, bending over, among other things :devious: :lick: but Maldita Vecindad stole the show...........they had security jumping around to their music, that's how hyped up they were........I wouldn't mind seeing them perform again, it was a good show, their bassist was pretty damn good too......

 

[diablorojo]

Tony C......


"pop" music simply means popular music, the term refers to mainstream music.....nothing more, in the US it grew out of folk music, just as it grew out of the folk music of every country where it developed, of course considering the ethnocentric views you always give, it would be dumb to think you capable of aknowledging that the world outside the US is just that....the world outside the US! European culture influences the world.....fashion, etc....more than the US.... LOL, everyone laughs at your baggy clothes and bit white tennis shoes!

Rock music developed from blues, and blues is black music.....the music of the oppressed and marginalized element of American society....the USA appropriates the music while condemning its creators to a state of second class citizens..... OH, and it was Dvorak, a Czech composer who first noted the rich musical elements of Afro-American spirituals and attempted to canonize them, blues came about due to his efforts in working with Afro-American music.....

You like Vargas Llosa because he is a rightwinger, just admit it.....

Latin American literature is very rich, Neruda, de las Casas, just look at Dominican literature.....Manuel del Cabral, H?ctor Inch?ustegui Cabral, and Pedro Mir.

Art? Just look at the il duomo cathedral in Florence and you will see portrayals of "Aztec warriors" and "plants of new Spain"....the discovery of the Americas influenced reannaissance art in Europe, and painters such as Francisco Oller influenced European currents......

It was the US and north America which has always been culturally stagnant.....

As far as movies go.....notions such as 'third cinema' (Solanas & Getino) or 'imperfect cinema' (Julio Garc?a Espinosa) or 'the aesthetics of hunger' (Glauber Rocha). These are very LATIN AMERICAN movements and imitate no one.....they are the product of Latin culture....

Maybe if you got away from whores and cheap alcohol, and actually learned something of the culture you would not open your mouth so much......

 

[XanaduRanch]

What do these comments have to do with Music?

(1) LOL, everyone laughs at your baggy clothes and bit white tennis shoes! (2) Rock music developed from blues, and blues is black music.....the music of the oppressed and marginalized element of American society (3) the USA appropriates the music while condemning its creators to a state of second class citizens (4) OH, and it was Dvorak, a Czech composer who first noted the rich musical elements of Afro-American spirituals and attempted to canonize them (5) Maybe if you got away from whores and cheap alcohol, and actually learned something of the culture you would not open your mouth so much.

1. The baggy clothes and big white tennis shoes you're laughing at are exports of the very same oppressed black and latino minorities that you keep imagining and harping on. Make up your mind. Which side are you on Communist Devil?
2. Marginalized and Oppressed? I dare you to say that to my ex-wife or her inlaws and make it out alive. They are lawyers, doctors, college professors, policemen, even the mayor of Des Moines, Iowa is my ex's first cousin. The only people being marginalized are people unwilling to actually, oh work for a living and stop blaming their problems on the white devils with their boots on their necks. What totally ignorant nonsense.
3. The 'U.S' does? What, in fact is the 'U.S.'? Read a bit more. This is not a Cuban-Communist command economy. Ideas that sell, sell, and are sold. And? The most succesful music companies in the United States by far are black-owned, and black-operated selling to the world. But, they are U.S. citizens so I guess you are technically correct. Just ignoring that little fact that it's blacks selling black products, music, and ideas. Hate to let a little thing like the truth get in the way there, though, eh, Communist Devil?
4. His music was about as popular as that great keyboard he invented when he wasn't busy writing 'pop' hits.
5. You ought to look up the definition of 'whoring'. It fits your posts to a tee. If you don't know what I mean by that, please do the search before spouting again. As to not opening your mouth so much, well, even though I do find your posts amusing, we'll all just have to keep hope alive![/list=1]
   
   Tom (aka XR)

 

[diablorojo]

Dominican music is more than bachata.....

Enrique de Marchena.... studied at the Dominican Republic National University. Graduating in 1929 with a degree of licenciate in law and political sciences. At the same time he studied music at the Liceo Musical of Ciudad Trujillo and piano with Fl?rida de Nolasco and harmony and composition with Enrique Casal, Chap? and Esteban Pe?a Morell. He was one of the founders of the Symphonic Society of Ciudad Trujillo. Music critic for List?n Diario. President of the Sociedad de Autores y Compositores de la Rep?blica Dominicana. His best known works are Suite de Im?genes: Amenecer, Scherzo de luz, Crep?sculo for orchestra, and Arco Iris - Symphonic poem.



and to the last post on here......Malcolm X referred to those few priveleged members of minorities who cooperate with the oppressors and ride their coat tails rather than serve their people and their cause as the "white man's nigger"....

 

[XanaduRanch]

Communist Devil ...

Malcolm X referred to those few priveleged members of minorities who cooperate with the oppressors and ride their coat tails rather than serve their people and their cause as the "white man's nigger"

Malcom X was a bi-polar, psychotic, idiot in desperate need of both psychiatric help and proper gun training. And just how is exporting black culture and music which is not an invention of white folks, to whites in the U.S. and around the world, riding the coattails of the man? You make no sense what-so-ever.

Why don't you get modern and start quoting Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and 'Calypso' Louis Farakhan? That big space ship is still up there waiting to take y'all to the promised land away from 'Yanqui Imperialism'! LOL. Perhaps you need to go back and look at the other side of the coin. Try reading something by Booker T. Washington, for example.

Here's a Hint: Try actually responding to the points above and prove that you know what your talking about. Then, and only then, will the little political asides be taken seriously by anyone here with more than half a brain. Otherwise, leave that cr*p at home and stay on message!

Tom (aka XR)

P.S.
Sorry to butt in all. And, my apologies, CC. I will leave the child be now. I was enjoying the music thread, just got fed up with the little misguided political outbursts. Back to moderator-lurking mode now.

 

[Keith R]

Como Agua para Chocolate? The Mexican Version of "Bridges of Madison County? Pure Hollywood Chick Flick!

There's just one problem with that theory, Tony -- "Chocolate" was released in 1993, while "Bridges" was released in 1995. So if there's any imitation (and frankly, I don't see how the two films relate in your mind), it's Bridges imitating Chocolate....

 

[Keith R]

Keith.

I said for "the most part" Vargas Llosa is good. But most of the rest are drivel.

Drivel??? Geez, have you read many of the works of the authors I mentioned, preferably in their original Spanish or Portuguese???? Cien a?os? El laberinto de la soledad? La muerte de Artemio Cruz? Os Sert?es? Ficciones? El Aleph? (Borges may not be everyone's cup of tea, but hardly qualifies as drivel!) Gabriela, Cravo e Canela? Cac?o?

As for your claim of innovation not originating in Latin America, what do you consider the realismo magico movement to be???

 

[diablorojo]

Xanaduranch.....why do you take a few lines out of context instead of answering the parts about Dominican music, Latin cinema, etc.....you know nothing about those things, so you get off the point and stir shit....and your rants make no sense.... Malcolm X Day is a bank holiday in the South African Republic, and he has streets named for him all over the world, is on stamps.....because you do not like him is no reason to denigrate the hero! Apologize and shut up.....


...........


Now back to the topic.....


The situation of Latin American cinema today is that of a series of medium to small, sometimes tiny, national film industries, all of them plagued by structural weakness and small markets, but supplied with a wealth of talent and imagination. It is also a cinema with a proud and inspirational history of aesthetic and political radicalism.......the political character of el nuevo cine latinoamericano was never primarily a matter of the party line but lay in its depth of understanding of the political space represented on the screen. Politics was always mixed in with a variety of stylistic experiments and excesses, which have not by any means subsided. Think of the recent films of Fernando Solanas --Tangos, el exilio de Gardel, from 1985, Sur, 1987, and El viaje, from 1992-- and of Paul Leduc's exhilarating dance dramas, Latino Bar, of 1990, and Dollar Mambo, 1992, in which the director of Frida, naturaleza viva, a paradigm of narrative experiment, excels himself.

Latin American cinema retains a certain utopian streak as well as a deep social conscience. Two examples are Mar?a Novaro's Danz?n (Mexico, 1990), and the political comedy La estrategia del caracol, by Sergio Cabrera (Colombia, 1993). Postmodernism is a big influence on Latin cinema.....Felipe Degregori, Todos somos estrellas (1993). La estrategia del caracol, Macu, la mujer del polic?a (Venezuela, 1987) or Como nascem os anjos (Brazil, 1996), by Murilo Salles are all examples of a postmodernist take on social realism.....This is a cinema which doesn't turn its back on genre but uses it as an authorial vehicle. This is different from the 60s and 70s, when the movement was busy either breaking genres apart or inventing new ones. Some of the newer films continue to address big contemporary national issues, and employ strong national character types. The paradigms here go back to Adolfo Aristarain in Argentina, with tremendous movies like Tiempo de revancha and ?ltimos d?as de la v?ctima in the early 80s (1981 and 1985).


There has also been a distinct return to the genre of melodrama, which in the 60s and 70s had been strongly disparaged by the political susceptibilities of the revolutionary left. It has come back, however, in a new guise, informed by a feminist focus, and largely, though not exclusively, the domain of a new generation of women directors, like Fina Torres, Solveig Hoogesteijn, Mar?a Novaro, and above all, the late Mar?a Luisa Bemberg.

This playfulness with genre is quite different from a similar stance in much recent US cinema, both Hollywood and Independent. For one thing, it doesn't indulge in gratuitous violence and the sex is much more tasteful. More fundamentally, it is highly syncretistic, fusing symbols and even whole symbolic systems into its pluralistic narratives.

 

[diablorojo]

DOMINICAN CINEMA......is also a noble industry.....go back to 1923 and Francisco Arturo Palau. Rafael Augusto Sanchez in the 1930's.....Oscar Torres in the 1960's. He was the first Dominican director of international acclaim, Tierra Olvidada and Realengo 18 were both international hits.

Then there is Hugo Mateo and his 30 de Mayo: Gesta Libertadora, as well as Franklin Dominguez and his La Silla showing the horrors of Trujillito.

Jorge made La Serpiente de la Luna de los Piratas and won the Toulon Film Festival prize in 1975....

Jimmy Sierra and CINEC did a lot of stuff dealing with social realism in the 1970's. Adelso Cass made several films in the Soviet Union..... and Carlos Figueroa and Edison Rivas were also great film makers....

Antonio Guzman Fernandez, Jose Bujosa Mieses, Agliberto Melendez, Angel Muniz, Claudio Chea(Azucar Amargo), Rene Fortunato.....are all names to look for! Not being known in the US does not make our cinema nor arts second class.....remember, the US is a pretty closed market when it comes to foreign arts, music, and cinema......

DOMINICAN and Latin American cinema in general is very rich and varied, as well as innovative and artistic....anyone who denies this has obviously not been exposed to it!