Striking increase in Haitian students in Dominican public schools

[johne]

Since it is the responsibility of state, city, country to provide education to children we are doing that to all Dominicans as required by law..is it our responsibility to provide such education to the population of a country that is not doing the very same?

Of course I know Haiti has no government..BUT does that mean our youngsters need to-be part of an international conflict? Not a level playing field.

 

[windeguy]

Some historical information on the considerations of illegal alien children being educated in the DR:

https://www.cnn.com/2012/06/13/world/americas/dominican-republic-immigration/index.html

I suspect that hospital birth record mentioned earlier in the thread is not "legal", but hey , this is the DR.

 

[bob saunders]

There can be no debate that overcrowding means less time a teacher can interact with each student or even learn where an individual student could be deficient. That's undebatable.

One teacher can't maintain control of the classroom. When I was in school spit-wads or rubber bands were how we annoyed people when the teachers back was turned. I remember one fellow student throwing a paper airplane that flew and stuck into the hair on the side of the substitute teacher's head - that set her off.

But from what I see there is no shortage of pregnant Dominicans also helping over crowd the schools.

Solution of course is to build more schools, and I see some being built nearby but as long as you staff it with poor quality and disinterested teachers, even less crowded schools won't give children a decent education.

This is why private schools do well in DR.

The parents know the public schools are little more than walled babysitting services. But only those with money are able to get their children help in private schools. And I see many Haitians working their tails off also putting their children in private schools too. I know several Haitians doing that.

Overcrowded schools & alternate private schools for wealthier families is a world wide phenomenon, so at least DR is on par in that regard.

26% of students in NYC go to private schools, https://manhattan.institute/article...2-educational-sector-race-income-and-religion. This will happen here too if the government does do a better job of controlling the influx of illegals. Classroom management (ie discipline) is a rare skill for Dominican teachers. Smaller groups are almost always easier to manage than large groups so yes adding more students causes issues. The number of Haitians we have in our private school is not a problem. Some a very comfortable speaking in Spanish, in fact that is what they speak at home, others have parents that can't read or write in either Creole or Spanish and need an interpreter.

 

[chico bill]

26% of students in NYC go to private schools, https://manhattan.institute/article...2-educational-sector-race-income-and-religion. This will happen here too if the government does do a better job of controlling the influx of illegals. Classroom management (ie discipline) is a rare skill for Dominican teachers. Smaller groups are almost always easier to manage than large groups so yes adding more students causes issues. The number of Haitians we have in our private school is not a problem. Some a very comfortable speaking in Spanish, in fact that is what they speak at home, others have parents that can't read or write in either Creole or Spanish and need an interpreter.

You can tell when a Haitian doesn't speak Spanish when you say something to them in Spanish and the only thing they can reply is 'bien'.
Bob - what does a Haitian student have to pay to attend your school ?

 

[bob saunders]

You can tell when a Haitian doesn't speak Spanish when you say something to them in Spanish and the only thing they can reply is 'bien'.
Bob - what does a Haitian student have to pay to attend your school ?

Same as a Dominican. Some people, all Dominicans so far, that have brought their child from another school when they are in grade two or three and the child doesn't know how to read pay more until the child is up to grade level then they pay the same as everyone else. All our Haitian students have started in Kinder, pre-primary, or Grade one. They are like any other student, some are slow, some are average, and some are very good students.

 

[bob saunders]

Grade 4, only one Haitian boy and he has been in the school for five years. Good student and well behaved.

 

[Tom F.]

26% of students in NYC go to private schools, https://manhattan.institute/article...2-educational-sector-race-income-and-religion. This will happen here too if the government does do a better job of controlling the influx of illegals. Classroom management (ie discipline) is a rare skill for Dominican teachers. Smaller groups are almost always easier to manage than large groups so yes adding more students causes issues. The number of Haitians we have in our private school is not a problem. Some a very comfortable speaking in Spanish, in fact that is what they speak at home, others have parents that can't read or write in either Creole or Spanish and need an interpreter.

NYC has more or less created another private school type environment with charter schools. They screen and the few difficult kids to teach are pushed back into the public, public schools.

 

[Manuel01]

Forcing schools to accept Haitian students seems counterproductive to the goal of deporting 500,000 Haitians per year.
It could just be me who sees that conundrum. Could changes be afoot to this open door policy in contrast to the deportations as the government moves forward?

Giving somebody an Education does not harm anybody. Even if they would be deported later on. Just increases the chance that they make it in Haiti. But If their presence is to large and because of language problems it slows down the entire class and the already lousy DR Education gets even worse, than this might be a problem.

 

[Tom F.]

Giving somebody an Education does not harm anybody. Even if they would be deported later on. Just increases the chance that they make it in Haiti. But If their presence is to large and because of language problems it slows down the entire class and the already lousy DR Education gets even worse, than this might be a problem.

That is why many of the bilingual programs have been eliminated in the US. If you are well off it’s called duel language and that’s okay. Research shows if core subject classes (math, science and social studies) are taught in their native languages, they usually test out after 3 years. English and double period ESL get them up to speed. The program does not work for those Spanish speaking students who are below or way below grade level when they arrive in the US. Literacy programs do not exist in junior and senior high, at least in NYC.

 

[bob saunders]

That is why many of the bilingual programs have been eliminated in the US. If you are well off it’s called duel language and that’s okay. Research shows if core subject classes (math, science and social studies) are taught in their native languages, they usually test out after 3 years. English and double period ESL get them up to speed. The program does not work for those Spanish speaking students who are below or way below grade level when they arrive in the US. Literacy programs do not exist in junior and senior high, at least in NYC.

In British Columbia, where I am from, ESL classes exist for as long as there is a need. My Stepson was in Grade five when he came to Canada and he was immediately put into ESL class, along with a bunch of Bosnian children. He was mainstreamed after 4 months into regular classes because his English was good. He did have the advantage of two stepbrothers to help him. We have had a number of Dominican students that were in school in NYC brought back to live with Grandma because they weren't learning anything in NY.

 

[Tom F.]

In British Columbia, where I am from, ESL classes exist for as long as there is a need. My Stepson was in Grade five when he came to Canada and he was immediately put into ESL class, along with a bunch of Bosnian children. He was mainstreamed after 4 months into regular classes because his English was good. He did have the advantage of two stepbrothers to help him. We have had a number of Dominican students that were in school in NYC brought back to live with Grandma because they weren't learning anything in NY.

They like to overcrowd classes in NYC and it's easy to fall into the trap on not doing homework and not showing you care too much about school. It's endemic in the kids born in NYC. The high functioning kids find their way and are more often in the screened schools (yes you heard me right, some public schools in NYC have a screening process) or charter schools. There are way too many functionally illiterate kids coming from the DR, and that is in the Spanish language.

 

[CristoRey]

This is a tough one because so many these students are quite young.

While I am not in favor of open borders or any policy which may encourage illegal immigration, I am staunchly opposed to denying any child an education.

 

[windeguy]

Giving somebody an Education does not harm anybody. Even if they would be deported later on. Just increases the chance that they make it in Haiti. But If their presence is to large and because of language problems it slows down the entire class and the already lousy DR Education gets even worse, than this might be a problem.

If it costs NO money and NO time spent that could be used on others to educate someone, then no one is harmed. If it costs money and takes time, then it is money and time that could be used elsewhere and someone is indeed harmed.

 

[bob saunders]

They like to overcrowd classes in NYC and it's easy to fall into the trap on not doing homework and not showing you care too much about school. It's endemic in the kids born in NYC. The high functioning kids find their way and are more often in the screened schools (yes you heard me right, some public schools in NYC have a screening process) or charter schools. There are way too many functionally illiterate kids coming from the DR, and that is in the Spanish language.

These kids could speak English and Spanish but could read or write in either and they were in the Bronx since they were 4 or 5 years old.

 

[bob saunders]

This is a tough one because so many these students are quite young.

While I am not in favor of open borders or any policy which may encourage illegal immigration, I am staunchly opposed to denying any child an education.

It is certainly a conundrum. Many Haitians are coming because there is no functioning education system in their part of Haiti. This isn't true for the whole country.

 

[NanSanPedro]

It is certainly a conundrum. Many Haitians are coming because there is no functioning education system in their part of Haiti. This isn't true for the whole country.

I've been in and taught in Haitian schools. This is true for almost the entire country.

 

[bob saunders]

I've been in and taught in Haitian schools. This is true for almost the entire country.

https://www.weforum.org/stories/2024/05/haiti-education/

Several of our students are from Delmas, and attended school there as recently as last year.

 

[Tom F.]

These kids could speak English and Spanish but could read or write in either and they were in the Bronx since they were 4 or 5 years old.

Parents have a lot to say about this. Are the parents illiterate?

 

[bob saunders]

Parents have a lot to say about this. Are the parents illiterate?

Most Dominican parents are not capable to teach their children.

 

[cavok]

Teaching is a special skill. Just because you know something doesn't necessarily mean you can teach it well.