I know the who's on first skit but MA hit that post somewhere in left field. It's like she was sleeping and dreaming about Haitians, French, Spaniards and oh, baseball too
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The Haitian Occupation of the Dominican Republic
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I know the who's on first skit but MA hit that post somewhere in left field. It's like she was sleeping and dreaming about Haitians, French, Spaniards and oh, baseball too
Abbott & Costello Who's On First - YouTube
of course you have not SEEN baseball untill you have seen the LIGHTS and the FIREWORKS of opening night here in Santo Domingo.....!!!!!!!!
MA,
Toussaint Loverture surrendered to save his people from more bloodshed. He was then betrayed by the French because they breached some of the terms of his surrender. And yes, he was banished to a dull dreary cell where he died in France.
Also, in your post, wouldn't the Haitians incursion be to the East? Clarify please?
I know the who's on first skit but MA hit that post somewhere in left field. It's like she was sleeping and dreaming about Haitians, French, Spaniards and oh, baseball too
That is about right.. I was really imagining last night what this island would have been like if the French had been victorirous! Sorta like Las Terrenas and Monte Carlo and all these charming typica villages...
and then the score cards that Wiki has for the battles on the side.. with the flags.. with who is on what side, and how many losses and wins with wounded and dead.. and who one...
but I do spend a lot of time in left field.
yes, sorry.. east cpast///
I would like to go back and do the chart and all but want to move on so to get to the other invastions ....
The bold part is not true, Tavares was a mulatto slave in Santiago, but he never commanded a troop compose of Dominicans, at least I haven't read anything about it. He was one of the deputies sent by Santiago on their first delegation to Dessalines on Cap Haitian, once there, Dessalines made him commander of the Santiago department, and put under his command 200 Haitian troops.
"Con efecto a pocos d?as lleg? a Santiago una guarnici?n, como de 200 negros, al mando de Campo Tav?rez, el mulato que hab?a sido nuestro compa?ero de viaje con el nuevo car?cter de gefe de brigada y comandante interino de la plaza, que nos presagi? lo mismo que despu?s tuvimos que experimentar. Esta circunstancia nos favoreci? mucho, porque al fin Campo Tav?rez (35) aunque mulato, era espa?ol y nos conservaba aquel prestigio de miramiento y de respeto del tiempo en que vivi? bajo otro sistema diferente; pero este consuelo nos fue tambi?n muy pasagero, porque su relevo no tard? mucho, subrog?ndose el mando que ten?a en el mulato Joubert, a quien se le dio en propiedad. Este, desde luego, comenz? a poner en pr?ctica los planes de exterminio y desastre que su gefe ten?a atrasado contra los del pa?s."
"Withing a few days a garrison of about 200 blacks arrived to Santiago, commanded by Campo Tav?rez the mulatto who had been our companion during our trip (reffering to the first delagation sent by Santiago to Cap-Hatian) with his new character of brigade commander and commander of the department, who have us the omen of what we had to go through later. These circumstances were very favorable to us, since after all Campo Tavares even though Mulatto, was a Spanish and still held that prestige of consideration and respect of the time he lived with under a different system; but this comfort was also very brief, since his replacement didn't take long, relinquishing the command he had to the mulatto Joubert, to whom the property was given. This one, of course, begun to put into practice the plans of exterminations and disasters sketched by his boss (Dessalines) against those of the country (Dominicans)."
Tavarez as described above never had the resentment towards his former white masters, that the Haitians had. Tavarez himself who witness the massacre of Santiago and Moca, stated that he was sadden by the fact that he could not do anything to stop his new commander from slaughtering his country men, and that even though he was their slave, these always treated him as an equal (later I'll translate this passage, have to go out now).
He would go on to play an important role in saving the life of many priests, children, and people of color, by begging Henri Christophe to spare their life's during the massacre commited in Santiago and Moca, and yes Mulattoes and blacks which Haitians couldn't understand the reason why they would remained together with the whites, instead of revolting like they had done.
You've been in left field and the sun a little too long. Now it's time to go to the dugout.
Tavarez was a mulatto of Spanish descent. He felt a connection to the white and mulatto Dominicans that were being slaughtered by Dessalines and Christophe in part due to his ancestry and also because he wasn't revengeful.
And yes, even in the Arredondo y Pichardo letter it states that the Haitians were also killing "people of color" that refused to take part or support the atrocities and there were many people of color trying to leave the island too.
Tavarez even warned many Santiago residents of what Christophe planned to do and that is why Arredondo y Pichardo was able to survive and escape to Cuba and write the letter about what had happened.
If anything, I suspect Tavarez probably complied with the Haitians to avoid being killed by them, because the Haitians didn't care if a person was of color; if you were not supporting them, you were done.
And yes, even in the Arredondo y Pichardo letter it states that the Haitians were also killing "people of color" that refused to take part or support the atrocities and there were many people of color trying to leave the island too.
Tavarez even warned many Santiago residents of what Christophe planned to do and that is why Arredondo y Pichardo was able to survive and escape to Cuba and write the letter about what had happened.
If anything, I suspect Tavarez probably complied with the Haitians to avoid being killed by them, because the Haitians didn't care if a person was of color; if you were not supporting them, you were done.
I know the who's on first skit but MA hit that post somewhere in left field. It's like she was sleeping and dreaming about Haitians, French, Spaniards and oh, baseball too
I think it was an analogy of the confusion of the history of the Haitian occupation of DR
I think it was an analogy of the confusion of the history of the Haitian occupation of DR
Oh I am playing along too. I guess I need some more time to get a better grip of MA :laugh:
Yes and if the European input in their mixture is of Spanish origin, guess what...
And that's how Arredondo y Pichardo described him: "...despite being mulatto, he was Spanish..." and then went on to explain how Tavarez expressed his feelings of kinship to the Dominicans, how grateful he was to his former master who treated him as another member of the family, etc...
I'll see if I can find the small speech he gave to warn the Santiago residents of the bloodbath that was about to be committed against them, a warning that many people heeded and thus, saved their lives. This is in addition to specific individuals that in the other attacks he intervened to save their own lives.
Most of Martinique's population is descended from enslaved Africans brought to work on sugar plantations during the colonial era, generally mixed with some French, Amerindian (Carib people), Indian (Tamil), Lebanese or Chinese ancestry. Between 5 and 10% of the population is of Indian (Tamil) origin. The island also boasts a small Syro-Lebanese community, a small but increasing Chinese community, and the B?k? community, descendants of European ethnic groups of the first French and Spanish settlers, who still dominate parts of the agricultural and trade sectors of the economy. Whites in total represent 5% of the population.[11]
The B?k? population (which totals around 1% of Martinique's population,[12] most of them being of aristocratic origin by birth or after buying the title) generally live in mansions on the Atlantic coast of the island (mostly in the Fran?ois - Cap Est district). In addition to the island population, the island hosts a metropolitan French community, most of which lives on the island on a temporary basis (generally from 3 to 5 years).
There are an estimated 260,000 people of Martiniquan origin living in mainland France, most of them in the Paris region. Emigration was highest in the 1970s, causing population growth to almost stop, but it is comparatively light today.
Today, the island has a higher standard of living than most other Caribbean countries. French products are easily available, from Chanel fashions to Limoges porcelain. Studying in the m?tropole (mainland France, especially Paris) is common for young adults. Martinique has been a vacation hotspot for many years, attracting both upper-class French and more budget-conscious travelers.
Martinique has a hybrid cuisine, mixing elements of African, French, Carib Amerindian and South Asian traditions. One of its most famous dishes is the Colombo (compare Tamil word kuzhambu for gravy or broth), a unique curry of chicken (curry chicken), meat or fish with vegetables, spiced with a distinctive masala of Tamil origins, sparked with tamarind, and often containing wine, coconut milk, cassava and rum. A strong tradition of Martiniquan desserts and cakes incorporate pineapple, rum, and a wide range of local ingredients
Santo Domingo would have been the PARIS of the South!! wow...
(but I hear that the racial tensions there are pretty bad which they are NOT here!)
Well Mountainannie, I simply mentioned Martinique because that's definitely what it would had been; but, personally, I would had preferred for the whole island to had remained Spanish (aka, the original French buccaneer that settled on Tortuga should had been wiped out) and then all this mess could had been avoided. Considering that most of the Spanish population was already mixed and free as early as the mid-1600s, much of the current Dominican population would had come into existence anyway. Also, considering that at the time of Haiti's independence roughly half the population was actually born in Africa and bulk of the other half rarely was second or third generation born on the island, chances would had been favorable for most, if not a sizable percentage, of Haitians would had also been born but in Africa.
Under this scenario, the big issue would had arisen at the end of the 1800s when the USA began to meddle in the Caribbean. But, this scenario would had also meant that much of the wealth created in Haiti, the boom of sugar (and the wealth) in Cuba after the destruction of Haiti, and the resurgence of the Dominican sugar industry at end of the 1800s would had never been created either.
They are all connected btw.
The French 'discover' how much wealth mostly sugar produced for them on the island, then Saint Domingue was destroyed and they moved to Cuba, and then Cuban fell into its 10-year independence war and guess where the sugar producers moved? The evidence is all over the eastern region, in many areas of the southern region and in the surrounding areas of Puerto Plata. They went from Haiti to Cuba to DR.
Anyway, rather than Santo Domingo becoming the Paris Part II, I think it would had been much better to be Madrid Part II. They are both beautiful cities.
Under this scenario, the big issue would had arisen at the end of the 1800s when the USA began to meddle in the Caribbean. But, this scenario would had also meant that much of the wealth created in Haiti, the boom of sugar (and the wealth) in Cuba after the destruction of Haiti, and the resurgence of the Dominican sugar industry at end of the 1800s would had never been created either.
They are all connected btw.
The French 'discover' how much wealth mostly sugar produced for them on the island, then Saint Domingue was destroyed and they moved to Cuba, and then Cuban fell into its 10-year independence war and guess where the sugar producers moved? The evidence is all over the eastern region, in many areas of the southern region and in the surrounding areas of Puerto Plata. They went from Haiti to Cuba to DR.
Anyway, rather than Santo Domingo becoming the Paris Part II, I think it would had been much better to be Madrid Part II. They are both beautiful cities.
here is the link for the letter Archivo OrbeQuince: Historia de mi salida de la isla de Santo Domingo el 28 de Abril de 1805 | Por Gaspar de Arredondo y Pichardo
I would appreciate it if some of you who want to underline all the atrocities on the Haitian side would carry your own water by taking the time to translate the Spanish into English for the record.
mesi anpil
I would appreciate it if some of you who want to underline all the atrocities on the Haitian side would carry your own water by taking the time to translate the Spanish into English for the record.
mesi anpil
yeah, Nals, but it coulda been Cuba.. right? or Puerto Rico?
guess we are lucky that we have the piece that we have!
guess we are lucky that we have the piece that we have!
and you know, of course, that Haiti.. well Haiti still has my admiration and respect..
and yes, they may very well have been very very brutal... but it was after all
war..
and an extremely just war if there ever was one.
*I say this about the invasion in question.. against Napoeon.. the one involving Dessaline..
in which everything was laid waste.. so as to leave nothing to sustain the French who were laying offshore in ships.. presumably about to land more forces.
So I can understand the assumption that anyone who was not with them, would fight against against them if the occassion arose..
make money off selling their children into slavery to other islands
all that all that...
guess it was one of those either you are with us or you are against us moments...
The white Polish troops in Haiti stayed with the slaves throughout the entire revoltuion.
and yes, they may very well have been very very brutal... but it was after all
war..
and an extremely just war if there ever was one.
*I say this about the invasion in question.. against Napoeon.. the one involving Dessaline..
in which everything was laid waste.. so as to leave nothing to sustain the French who were laying offshore in ships.. presumably about to land more forces.
So I can understand the assumption that anyone who was not with them, would fight against against them if the occassion arose..
make money off selling their children into slavery to other islands
all that all that...
guess it was one of those either you are with us or you are against us moments...
The white Polish troops in Haiti stayed with the slaves throughout the entire revoltuion.
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