The Middle Class in the DR

[dv8]

yes, i am talking dollars. please, take in mind that lost of stuff are more expensive if you live in DR: cars and travel specifically come to mind. and the more you make the more you spend. i consider over 250k dollars a year kinda low rich (although i would love to be that "low" myself). there are many people in DR who make over million dollars a year. this is proper ricos, who can drive a car worth 250k dollars and probably have at least 2 cars per person in their household. there are many areas in SD where a house would cost you well over one million dollars. then of course you need to furnish it and so on.
so yeah, up until 250k a year it's still middle class, high middle class but nonetheless. i would apply the same to europe as well.

 

[RGVgal]

yes, i am talking dollars. please, take in mind that lost of stuff are more expensive if you live in DR: cars and travel specifically come to mind. and the more you make the more you spend. i consider over 250k dollars a year kinda low rich (although i would love to be that "low" myself). there are many people in DR who make over million dollars a year. this is proper ricos, who can drive a car worth 250k dollars and probably have at least 2 cars per person in their household. there are many areas in SD where a house would cost you well over one million dollars. then of course you need to furnish it and so on.
so yeah, up until 250k a year it's still middle class, high middle class but nonetheless. i would apply the same to europe as well.

That's not even considered middle class in the U.S. If you are making anywhere near 250k in the DR you are RICH.

 

[dv8]

this is my subjective opinion.

 

[Africaida]

That's not even considered middle class in the U.S. If you are making anywhere near 250k in the DR you are RICH.

10 Millions pesos in a country where you have many making 5 thousands. I would think it is rich too, even a poor rich.

 

[Africaida]

yes, i am talking dollars. please, take in mind that lost of stuff are more expensive if you live in DR: cars and travel specifically come to mind. and the more you make the more you spend. i consider over 250k dollars a year kinda low rich (although i would love to be that "low" myself). there are many people in DR who make over million dollars a year. this is proper ricos, who can drive a car worth 250k dollars and probably have at least 2 cars per person in their household. there are many areas in SD where a house would cost you well over one million dollars. then of course you need to furnish it and so on.
so yeah, up until 250k a year it's still middle class, high middle class but nonetheless. i would apply the same to europe as well.

A lot of stuff are much cheaper too compare to the US too, household help, schools, etc...

 

[Kareline Duverge]

It seems like services are cheaper in DR and products are more expensive where in the U.S. it's the opposite.

 

[dv8]

not if you have money. the more you have the more you spend even on the basics. a friend who lives in SD buys most of his stuff online or in specialty shops. that makes his daily purchases more expensive comparing to american doing the same because he also forks out shipping charges. this is a kind of a very strange frame of mind, i gotta say. another friend in santiago was going to HOMS to see her gynecologist, covered by insurance all that. she got married, the total income went up. after she got prego she would only go to some posh cucologo in SD who charges few thousand per visit and does not deal with the peasant thing like insurances. so cash only. see what i mean?

 

[Mauricio]

That's not even considered middle class in the U.S. If you are making anywhere near 250k in the DR you are RICH.

That's the mistake many people make. To be middle class in DR you need to earn more than to be middle class in Europe, and I assume the same you could say about the US.

I was comparing this summer, while visiting my family what they spend, how they live. My siblings are all-but-one middle class. They all have nice houses, one or two cars, new flatscreens, no credit card debts, (high mortgages though), go on vacation every year and have a family income between 2500 and 3500 euros per month.

I earn more but: can't go on vacation, am calculating every month how to make ends meet, will stick with my 8 year old 26 inch 'flatscreen', am doubting every month if I will keep my kids in swimming lessons. In summary: to live a NORMAL middle class live you need to earn more money than in Europe and probably USA.

 

[VIMAN68]

this is my subjective opinion.

DV8...you are spot on...all this discussion is quite subjective without the concrete numbers to back up any opinions. Economists will tell you there is no concrete definition of what constitutes the "middle class" and that being middle class is often based as much on your state of mind and it is your income...and a multitude of other factors (biggest one being the number of mouths you have to feed). My favorite quote from Pablo Picasso is "“I'd like to live as a poor man with lots of money.” (Again another subjective statment)

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't think dv8 is that far off with her $250,000 number.

You know that I was greatly affected by Hurricane Sandy. We had about $85,000 in damage to our home [others had much more], and received a total of $27,000 from insurance. We laid out a lot of our own money. Now the State of NJ is offering grants to people like us who still have work to be done. It's for 'moderate to low income' families. The threshold is $250,000 or below in annual income.

 

[Chip]

With all due respect I don't believe one can compare middle class in SD to anywhere else in the country.

Also, one needs to take with a grain of salt what people say who do not speak the language adequately because all their information is second hand.

 

[drescape24]

I think the definition of middle class isn't a dollar or paso amount but a standard of living. Then the effort needed to obtain and maintain that standard of living is also part of the equation. Imho.

 

[Chirimoya]

We're at the low end of dv8's middle middle class definition and don't have much in the way of disposable income.
We cover our costs and not much is left for fripperies compared to a couple of years ago.

 

[VIMAN68]

I think the definition of middle class isn't a dollar or paso amount but a standard of living. Then the effort needed to obtain and maintain that standard of living is also part of the equation. Imho.

Define Standard of Living? (again this is subjective depending on the person(s) involved) Just a question..IMHO (good thing I work in an organization that LOVES acronyms)

 

[Criss Colon]

I have to go along with "Mauricio" on this matter!
100%!!!
If you add "Kids" into the equation, your monthly income can disapear faster than a Dominican who is offered a job!
Especially in expat families who would eat dirt before skimping on our children!
Dominicans never seem to have enough money to invest in their children's future, Rum,Cell phones, and "Nike's" cost a lot these days!
Just because you see a Dominicano in a "Jepeta" in no way indicates their economic condition.
They would live in a shack, and feed their children "Espageti con Cachu" to drive one!
AND, Too Many DO!
A dominican once told me I should buy a new "Jepeta", because I was shaming my kids when I dropped them off at school with my older Ford Van!!!!!!!
Dominican' Priorities?????
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[greydread]

My next question would be how much coin is middle class. If you live in the Wash D.C area making 120 thousand a year (household), you don't have it "made" .In fact you are seriously limited on where you can live and I would doubt you are middle class

In Washington, DC $119,134 is the median household income. Federal employees average $126,000 in compensation and there are lot of households in which both Husband and Wife are federal employees. Many commute more than 50 miles each way to work and come from as far as Delaware, Pennsylvania and West Virginia on a daily basis. Compressed work schedules (4/10's) and telework 1-2 days a week are the norm.

Most federal workers in the District would see more disposable income if they moved South of Richmond or West of Charlottesville for half their WDC income. A quarter million for a family of four is tough to compete with for housing. All new rental developments in most of the counties in the DMV have to set aside 10% of their units as rent controlled, subsidized housing for working poor (<$45/year). There are decades long waiting lists for that 10%, everybody else simply makes do. There are many apartments and rental houses with waay more people living in them than the leases would indicate.

I tried to explain this phenomenon to a few friends in the D.R. and they can't quite wrap their heads around the relative cost being the equalizing factor between life here and there.

 

[dv8]

We're at the low end of dv8's middle middle class definition and don't have much in the way of disposable income.
We cover our costs and not much is left for fripperies compared to a couple of years ago.

like you, at the end of the year we have little left. we are lucky to have a house that is fully paid for, no mortgage. and we consciously took a decision to buy a cheaper SUV. if we had to pay the mortgage and car credit we'd be on rice and beans.
after all our costs we have enough to go on holidays to europe, which some may see as an excessive luxury but it is a must for me, to be able to see family a friends.

 

[drescape24]

Define Standard of Living? (again this is subjective depending on the person(s) involved) Just a question..IMHO (good thing I work in an organization that LOVES acronyms)

Does this help?
stan?dard of liv?ing
* level of material comfort:the level of material comfort enjoyed by a person, group, or societySynonymslevel of comfort, wealth, means, level of affluence, lifestyle, way of life

 

[Castle]

I think it's very difficult to tell how rich or poor you are by the income only. You have to take into account how many people live on that budget. I'm single, no kids, so I live very comfortably with very little compared to the US.
A household income of US$100K (after taxes) is a lot for up to three people, but too little for a family of five to live comfortably. If I had kids I'd probably spend more than in the US because i'd be paying private schools, which in DR are very expensive.
So with the mentioned figure of US$250k, if it's you, your spouse and one or two kids, you can say you're rich. not filthy rich or millionaire, but rich. You probably travel on vacation once or twice a year, live (and own) in a nice neighborhood and drive moderately fancy cars. If you have to support a family of 5 plus grandpas and grandmas and then your married children live in also, then you're in trouble.
Of course living like a monk and watching every dime does not make you less rich. If anything, it makes you richer.
And yes, remember taxes. If you make 250K a year, you only see about 160K of that, so....

 

[VIMAN68]

Does this help?
stan?dard of liv?ing
* level of material comfort:the level of material comfort enjoyed by a person, group, or societySynonymslevel of comfort, wealth, means, level of affluence, lifestyle, way of life

LOL..thanks my question was a rhetorical one...just emphasizing my point that it is all subjective....which your definition re-affirms.