Trashed Again

Sep 19, 2005
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91
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this is how the threads get closed...but WTF do I care

you can put your aftermarket spin on it all you want, but this is your post:


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Lacking Hygiene


<HR style="COLOR: #173f96" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by laurapasinifan
...I put my plate down on the floor when i was finnished one day to let my Gfs dog lick it clean...


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GF yes, dog no!

m'frog"


you are telling me to have my girlfriend lick the plate on the floor, and not the dog.

all am all for the little wise cracks.....but DONT use them with my GF, ESPECIALLY in the context of talking about an f'n dog....



I tried to take this to PMs ...but you want to insist your little remark is acceptable.

bob
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Don Juan

Living Brain Donor
Dec 5, 2003
856
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A bunch of monkeys!

Ever heard the expression "monkey see, monkey do"? Well, that's pretty much what this thrash problem comes down to. I don't think it's more of a "culture" phenomena. If one does it, most everyone emulates the dirty habit. It's human nature. When in Rome.....

The dire state of the educational system in DR has all to do with people behaving as they do. One of the most important part of being able to go to school regularly, is to learn about the "civic duties" a student is supposed to follow. ie, don't litter.
When the mind-set of this counterproductive cycle is broken, people will learn to behave accordingly. It's simply a matter of educating our people.

However, it takes a concerted effort on the part of our government. If there are no bins for thrash in every corner, no regular pick ups, no regulated/properly located landfills, and no money allocated for all this; you get exactly the same reaction from all these foreign ambassadors.

The DR is a pig sty!! And what bunch of asses we have in government that won't accept/acknowledge the obvious sorry state of our nation!!... And do something about it!
Don't they realize how much $$$$$money this is being lost in the drastically reduced number of visitors every year?

Denial of this and many, many other illnesses, is what keeps our beloved DR, forever in the strangle-hold of poverty. What are we to do??!!!
 

miguel

I didn't last long...
Jul 2, 2003
5,261
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Seriamente......

this is how the threads get closed...but WTF do I care

you can put your aftermarket spin on it all you want, but this is your post:


"
icon9.gif
Lacking Hygiene


<HR style="COLOR: #173f96" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by laurapasinifan
...I put my plate down on the floor when i was finnished one day to let my Gfs dog lick it clean...


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
GF yes, dog no!

m'frog"


you are telling me to have my girlfriend lick the plate on the floor, and not the dog.

all am all for the little wise cracks.....but DONT use them with my GF, ESPECIALLY in the context of talking about an f'n dog....



I tried to take this to PMs ...but you want to insist your little remark is acceptable.

bob
<!-- / message -->
Listen Bob, PLEASE allow me to explain what he tried to say.

Yes, it's none of my business but it "pains" me that you are making this about something that it's not.

When he said: "GF yes, dog no, I believe he was talking about "A" girlfriend, NOT "YOUR" girlfriend.

And I also believe he was talking about what "HE" would do.

And I also believe he was joking.

Correct me if I am wrong, Froggy.

Now, with all seriousness, even if someone had said it the way you are thinking, what do you care if it's not the truth?.

Learn from "The President", things that are not true, BOUNCE off my chest!!.

Now, you do know that I, being the axxhole that I am, would not lie to you, right?.
 

Tuan

New member
Aug 28, 2004
204
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Fire 'em all!

"What are we to do?" Don Juan?
Whatever you do, don't think Government, NGO's, or UN.
After all, the UN is the agency that plans to name Zimbabwe head of the Commission on Sustainable Development.
Nor any other institution but Educatiion. Deconstruct it entirely.
Start with the teachers. Fire 'em all! Every party hack one of them.
Get anyone who loves to teach, loves their country and loves children, regardless of degrees, unions and seniority. Put them in the classrooms with the kids at least 6 hours a day, and round up all the kids on the street and dump them into the classrooms.
Lock 'em down, and wait two generations. It took more than that to get here.
 

cuas

New member
May 29, 2006
360
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How do people change a behavior without educate them.
I was living in a poor neighborhood. Los Mina. Every morning a neighbor -a teacher- gets up early every day and sweep the side walks. She first started with her sidewalk and street. nobody dared throwing something on her sidewalk. Then she was cleaning the next door neighbors side walks and the other side of her sidewalk including the street. Then she extended it to more houses. After a while as soon as she comes out with her broom you saw neighbors coming out with their brooms. I lived on a clean street. You have to think twice before throwing something on the street because EVERYBODY was watching you. People were still cleaning but mostly leaves and garbage from passing people..

About paying somebody to do a one time cleaning it doesnot work. you have to pay for the one time cleaning and pay something to keep it clean. after a while that same person will tell neighbors not to throw garbage out of their window.

One of my sisters went to Aruba (born there) on vacation. She went out with some friends, while in a park she threw a wrapper on a floor. One of the friends said to her, please pick it up and put it in my car and when you get home you put it in the garbage can, you do not like for me to go to DR and throw garbage on the floor. This girl never imagine how dirty some of the DR streets are.

Dominicans usually mop their floor twice a day. That means WE are not dirty pigs. I like the idea of changing OUR behavior but it will only work if somebody living inthe same neighborhood is paid some pesos to keep a watch on the garbage throwers and believe me he will do everything to make his job easier.
PEOPLE HAS TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO AND WHY.
My 2 cheles.
 
C

Chip00

Guest
How do people change a behavior without educate them.
I was living in a poor neighborhood. Los Mina. Every morning a neighbor -a teacher- gets up early every day and sweep the side walks. She first started with her sidewalk and street. nobody dared throwing something on her sidewalk. Then she was cleaning the next door neighbors side walks and the other side of her sidewalk including the street. Then she extended it to more houses. After a while as soon as she comes out with her broom you saw neighbors coming out with their brooms. I lived on a clean street. You have to think twice before throwing something on the street because EVERYBODY was watching you. People were still cleaning but mostly leaves and garbage from passing people..

About paying somebody to do a one time cleaning it doesnot work. you have to pay for the one time cleaning and pay something to keep it clean. after a while that same person will tell neighbors not to throw garbage out of their window.

One of my sisters went to Aruba (born there) on vacation. She went out with some friends, while in a park she threw a wrapper on a floor. One of the friends said to her, please pick it up and put it in my car and when you get home you put it in the garbage can, you do not like for me to go to DR and throw garbage on the floor. This girl never imagine how dirty some of the DR streets are.

Dominicans usually mop their floor twice a day. That means WE are not dirty pigs. I like the idea of changing OUR behavior but it will only work if somebody living inthe same neighborhood is paid some pesos to keep a watch on the garbage throwers and believe me he will do everything to make his job easier.
PEOPLE HAS TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO AND WHY.
My 2 cheles
.

Valen mas!!!!! De acuerdo!!!!
 

BIZC8

New member
Dec 21, 2006
92
2
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For the sake of keeping our sanity, I'll stick to the topic at hand; me being the original poster and all.

As expected, the official government reaction has been presented and to no surprise, it's exactly what it has been in the past when other ambassadors have pointed out what we Dominicans refuse to address in spite of how aware of the problem we may be.

Mr. Troncoso, you keep that up. You keep on trying to cover up the sun with your index finger by diverting public attention from the real problem: our government continues as it has been for decades, to deprive our citizens of basic human living standards. More than a lack of initiative on the part of teachers, our government does not do an 'adequate' (for lack of a better word) job at providing the necessary tools to ensure that all municipalities are free of FILTH.

I remember when I was in grammar school in the DR (yes, it was long ago). I made it to fourth grade (then moved to the US) and I distinctively remember how I was consistently and systematically instilled the basic moral and civic duties of a citizen, the manners expected when addressing grown-ups and other basic social protocol/etiquette from all my teachers in school as well as my parents. They were just different times I guess. People simply cared. While you might say, well you must be the few exceptional children that actually got an education; well to you I say 'I beg to differ'. I have, throughout the years, kept in touch with several of those childhood classmates and not surprisingly, they're all outstanding, well-off citizens of the DR. Yes, their potential has been somewhat curtailed by the conditions of the country as a whole, but through layers and layers of setbacks and shortcomings, these individuals have managed to retain all of those childhood teachings.

Don't even get me started on the level and quality of the academic instruction in the DR... I have bus loads of comments on that too. Let's just say, I have a hard time finding 3 out of 10 people in the DR who can write and spell correctly in Spanish. Seems like that too has deteriorated over the years. What I know of Spanish is what I've managed to retain since having left the DR in 1981, what I've managed to self-instruct through reading habits and it's sad to see how people that've gone through high school and even college in the DR aren't able to spell correctly and write coherent and grammatically sound sentences. Just when you think you've seen it all, wham! you read one of those reader comments in Diario Libre or something. Absolutely amazing!!

Now, I'm no novel writer endorsed by the Real Academia Espa?ola or anything, but in this day and age, there's simply no excuse for putting written content in the eyes of the public without it first being spell-checked.

On a positive note, I have close to another 30 years before I retire. I'm preeeetty sure my retirement years will be well-spent in the DR giving back to the children. At least I hope the Lord will allow me to fulfill that dream. I wish I could do that now, but at this stage of my life it's nearly impossible. For the record, I have no intentions or ambitions to become politically involved. I very much wish to make a difference as a private citizen. I think that would be equally (spiritually) gratifying.

Hagamos la diferencia.
 
B

batich

Guest
PEOPLE HAS TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO AND WHY.
My 2 cheles.


And to create another police state! With sting operations and "beer in paperbags only".

No, gracias!

HUMAN trash is much worse than even tons of plastic bags, paper plates and bottles.

My two shekels.
 

Don Juan

Living Brain Donor
Dec 5, 2003
856
0
0
Haaaaa!!!

And to create another police state! With sting operations and "beer in paperbags only".

No, gracias!

HUMAN trash is much worse than even tons of plastic bags, paper plates and bottles.

My two shekels.

Darn, Batich. You cracked me up!!! You can be so funny and, dare I say, RIGHT at times!! You're absolutely correct about the human thrash being worse!
Tell you what, Let's clean up the government thrash and hopefully we'll get people elected, who actually give a damn and won't make you put your beer in a bag!!
 

mountainfrog

On Vacation!
Dec 8, 2003
3,146
0
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www.domrep-info.com
Floor?

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Lacking Hygiene

GF yes, dog no!

The quotes are correct (except the colour) and I stand by them.


you are telling me to have my girlfriend lick the plate on the floor, and not the dog.
No, I am not telling you this.
This is how you wanted to interpret it without any reason to do so. Why?
May I suggest that you read the black symbols only and not add words ('floor') to my sentences.



I tried to take this to PMs ...but you want to insist your little remark is acceptable.
I answered your PM.
None of my remarks were aimed at your GF, they were my opinion about hygiene.

m'frog
 
C

Chip00

Guest
No offense froggy but the following statement in bold is demeaning to Bob's GF. I believe I understand what you were trying to insinuate but unfortunately it didn't come out that way nor can it be intrepreted that way in proper English.

Originally Posted by laurapasinifan
...I put my plate down on the floor when i was finnished one day to let my Gfs dog lick it clean...

GF yes, dog no!

m'frog

Back on topic please -I don't want this thread closed because it is important to me!
 

mountainfrog

On Vacation!
Dec 8, 2003
3,146
0
0
www.domrep-info.com
My Final Word on Plates and Dogs

No offense froggy but the following statement in bold is demeaning to Bob's GF.
GF yes, dog no!

I see what you mean.
I am sorry that a remark too short left too much room for interpretation.
My opinion is that to ME it's acceptable when a human licks a plate (normally used for people) - which may not be a sign of good manners, I agree - but not so if dogs are let to do so.

m'frog
 

BIZC8

New member
Dec 21, 2006
92
2
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Back on topic please -I don't want this thread closed because it is important to me!

Totally concur. I think we've wasted enough time on the dog and the girlfriend. This is a topic that has affected, presently affects or will at some point affect all of us in this forum and certainly deserves its due attention. Unless of course, you just don't care.

I think we can all agree that the first step to a successful project is good planning. In order to get that done, there needs to be good communication. I'd like to think we're successfully communicating here, so that takes care of step #1. Now, as someone posted earlier, amazing things can happen by leading by example. If we can agree to act accordingly in each of our respective neighborhoods by setting the example (properly bagging your trash, properly disposing of your trash, stop littering, donate your time (and money if you can) to provide what the local government can't (or won't) like trash bins or receptacles, making signs, taking on a dignified attitude and outright becoming active in your block, area, community - we'd all be pleasantly surprised at how much we can accomplish!

De la misma manera en que las cosas malas se contagian, asi tambien las cosas buenas. Digamos no a la basura y a las malas costumbres y provoquemos un cambio.
 

Tuan

New member
Aug 28, 2004
204
2
0
thanks for your serious input

Cuas & BIZC8, thanks for your serious input, especially the morality tale of the TEACHER sweeping her streetfront, and the dictum that

que las cosas buenas se contagian


You bet they do, and that's why teachers that love to teach are what will save us -- not ideology nor political parties and certainly not the primos and novias appointed as teachers now.
 

Chichiguita

New member
Dec 30, 2004
156
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a gringa's take

Okay, first let me say that I am a foreigner and I know nothing. Everything I express here, I express with fear, trembling and humility because I don't live in the DR full time and did not grow up there. I am just a gringa who came to a village to build a playground and in the process found una familia...
That being said...here is my take:
I have been to the DR several times a year over the last four years. When I first went, I could barely ask for a bathroom. Today I am trying to learn Spanish.
I noticed the trash a lot more on my first trip. It is hard not to notice when you are surrounded by the most beautiful mountains and pristine waterfalls--and you look at your feet and see an old dirty diaper.
I spend most of my time in two small communities near Jarabacoa (El Cijjone and Mata Gorda). These are very poor communities.

Both communities have a small school/preschool sponsored by a mission organization called Students International. I learned about these communities as part of a work team that helped build a playground at each of these schools.
I noticed how people seemed to throw trash on the ground. I remember cleaning up the worksite one day in Mata Gorda and noticing there weren?t any trash cans. I asked the teacher and she instructed me to pile the trash in the back and they would take it to the dump. I guess nobody picks up trash in these areas?

The teacher lived in Mata Gorda because she and her husband believed that if they were to see the community transformed they needed to be there every day. The trash was removed by volunteers from the church (a church met in the school on the weekends). Someone had a truck and a couple of men and a bunch of boys took the initiative to load up the trash and haul it away. If they hadn't done that--the trash would just pile up.

The people who live in Mata Gorda have trouble keeping their kids fed and clothed--but they sweep the dirt in front of their homes to keep the dust down, and they mop everyday. They are not dirty--not by a long shot. I look at my messy house in suburban U.S. and know my friends in Mata Gorda would be appalled. :eek:

When I put myself in the shoes of my friends in Mata Gorda, I think it just must feel like an insurmountable task. "Even if I took the time and effort to bag up all my trash--others would still throw trash in the street and it would still blow over to my yard...I would still have to find a vehicle (most travel by motto or foot), load it all up, take it to where ever it is dumped and then probably be charged a fee to dump it. If I am already overwhelmed with the needs of my family, trying to figure out how to pay for the simple things, I think I'm going to drop that piece of paper on the ground too."

Most of the people in Mata Gorda know nothing of the tourist industry and have nothing to gain from its prosperity. They are trying to get rice and beans on the table--what do they care if some fat slob in Porta Plata thinks they have a dirty country (okay, sorry--getting just a little defensive). But the idea that lost revenue from the tourism industry is not exactly the first thing on the mind of the mother of six in Mata Gorda. She is tired and no tourist come to Mata Gorda to vacation (well, okay--maybe me, but I like to think of myself as una harmana blanca--no longer a tourist), the tourist industry/government/rich Dominicans bitching in the news papers are not going to send a truck through her street to pick up trash--let them argue with the ambassadors...she has a floor to mop and kids to feed.

I wish it weren't like that--but I certainly understand her plight a lot better than the tourists who gripe about the mess, but do nothing to help and talk about the poverty and then haggle with vendors over every peco they spend on the trinkets they will return home with.

I think that there is not an easy answer--but there is an answer and my friends who live in Mata Gorda are figuring it out. It started with the teacher (her name is Yocasta) and her husband (he is Alberto--they also started the little church that meets in the school) moving from a comfortable home in Jarabacoa to a home in the community where they work. They were invested enough in the problems to become part of the community. Now, when the water doesn't work because there is a leak somewhere in the mountain, Alberto and a bunch of guys from the community follow the line themselves and together they figure out how to fix it...they don't wait for the government to fix it. About a year ago they came together and built this big clay water purifier "thingy" and appointed one of the families to oversee it so people in the community can bring their jugs and fill them with clean drinking water for only a few pesos (enough to keep the purifier clean and maintained). The people in the church community organize a couple of times a year and go down the roads picking up trash, and I think it is getting better in Mata Gorda. In four years I think there is a community spirit there.

I think there is a balance between saying "the government has to get in there and fix it", and "the people just don't know better". What I have observed is that they know better and want better, but feel a little trapped, and just plain weary. From the outside looking in, It looks like the government has forgotten about my friends en Mata Gorda (unless it is election time--then I have seen them with their bags of rice---grrrr).

It seems like the answer is community. "I may not have a truck, but maybe you do", "maybe you can't load all your trash up, but I have three strong boys who will come help."--

Alberto (the pastor of the small church in Mata Gorda and the husband of Yocasta, the teacher I spoke of) says that "poverty is not only in the wallet. It is in the heart and in the head. That is where we must battle poverty." Wise man.

It may not save the world, but it seems to work en Mata Gorda.
 

miguel

I didn't last long...
Jul 2, 2003
5,261
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Por fin.....

OK, done .. no more about licking plates. It is absurd.
THANK YOU CHRISTA!!!!!!!!!!!!.

I swear, I almost forgot I have been a recovering ALCOHOLIC for the past 70 years and explaining so much to people that do not want to understand something so simple, WAS GOING TO MAKE ME DRINK AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!.

Oops, too late, "please make that a double, bartender"!. THANKS A LOT guys!!.

Wahahahahaha, hip hip hip.......
 

Capt. Rob57

New member
Mar 22, 2006
258
2
0
Bickering

I really wish that this board would throw half of you off nothing to say except mindless garbage that is what needs to be cleaned up.

Looked when I loved in Santiago there was a baseball field now I hate baseball but it is better that staying home alone and watching T.V. there was always alot of garbage around especially after games on Sat. and Sun. so I drove a nail in an old broom handle bought some garbage bags and started walking around and picking up all the garbage and placing it on the street corner. After two weeks a local came and asked my why would a non Dominican care about his country when so many of them did not. Simple I said " If not me who if not now when" LEAD BY EXAMPLE. Talk is cheap but your OUR actions speak louder than words. Remember we are the one who are supposed to be well educated and well mannered.