Wages increases for staff? Advice please?

[DrChrisHE]

I'm reading in awe how well some of you treat your workers and then my dh reminded me that I provide free health care and medicines (including oral contraceptives) to our housekeeper. In the past, we've found that the emergency runs that our help have made have cost them dearly in spite of them supposedly being covered by the plan. So, instead of them running up a $4000 RD ER bill for something that IS really a quickie out patient call (plus I DO more such as check BP), they are saved the hassle and $.

When I can easily help them I do and when they need the time off because of a sick child or they are sick (as long as this isn't abused) we've given it to them paid. Some of you may think we shouldn't do this but I think it is humane PLUS I don't really want our 5 member household exposed to more illness that they already are (and I do a complete change of clothing and scrub down when I leave the clinic and again when returning home--we were all sick so much for the first 9 months we were here that it became routine--everyone coming home washed and changed.)

Paz y salud,
DrChrisHE

 

[BushBaby]

STAY in awe DrChrisHE, some of us already include those aspects as a matter of course!

This is NOT a competition as far as I am concerned to see who can pay highest & best, it is a matter of doing the right thing for our staff/helpers as we think befits the situation. Health care, time off (as indicated in my post above) & even a pension scheme for when they have to leave us, are all part of the 'package'. This latter 'benefit' alleviates the possible problem of 'liquidacion' - demand liquidacion or screw us for any reason & the 'retirement benefit' gets forgotten. Fortunately that situation will never arise because of the relationship we have now built up. Our cleaner & gardener save us lots of aggravation, do their work without need of supervision & DESERVE the money they get. If someone else pays their staff double what we are that would not cause us to increase our pay structure one jot.

By the way - does DR in your handle stand for the 'Doctor' abbreviation or is it the abbreviation for Dominican Republic? I have never sussed that one out but it DOES seem to indicate you are a doctor. Should I put your name forward for the 'in need of Doctors' thread? ~ Grahame.

 

[whirleybird]

STAY in awe DrChrisHE, some of us already include those aspects as a matter of course!

This is NOT a competition as far as I am concerned to see who can pay highest & best, it is a matter of doing the right thing for our staff/helpers as we think befits the situation. Health care, time off (as indicated in my post above) & even a pension scheme for when they have to leave us, are all part of the 'package'. This latter 'benefit' alleviates the possible problem of 'liquidacion' - demand liquidacion or screw us for any reason & the 'retirement benefit' gets forgotten. Fortunately that situation will never arise because of the relationship we have now built up. Our cleaner & gardener save us lots of aggravation, do their work without need of supervision & DESERVE the money they get. If someone else pays their staff double what we are that would not cause us to increase our pay structure one jot. ~ Grahame.

I totally agree Grahame and it did not cross my mind to mention the "unseen" benefits which the deserved staff receive as and when the occasion arises. I think, in our personal circumstances, that it is far more of a question of 'treating them as we would want them to threat us' in our hour of need in whatever way is reciprocal, whether it be financial or merely supportive. My only query when I started this thread was to enquire as to what a fair annual salary increase entails...

 

[shadInToronto]

....Margo, our house worker, currently works 20 hours a week and receives RD$2000 per fortnight and her partner, Tuli, works on the farm for 40 hours a week and receives RD$3000 per fortnight. The gardener, Isidoro, works 40 hours and receives RD$2500 a fortnight ....

Maid - RD$100./hr = ~USD$3.05/hr
Farm worker - RD$75./hr = ~USD$2.30/hr
Gardener - RD$63./hr = ~USD$1.90/hr

Sure isn't paradise for them. ::disappoin :speechles

 

[gamana]

I live on a finca, 30 mins away from any tourist or expats concentration which might distort the rates.

Permanent Employees:
Basic gardening and maintenance: RD$6,000/month (6 days)
agricultural work: RD$7-8,000/month (6 days)
Dairy work: RD$9-12,000/month (7 days)
Maid/cook: RD$6-7,000/month (6 days)

All get 2 weeks off/year, a bonus of 50 to 100% of monthly salary at year end, on-site accommodation.

All get on often, phone cards, shirts, pants, food,... depending on the quality of their work.

Temporary employees:

RD$300/day

 

[whirleybird]

Maid - RD$100./hr = ~USD$3.05/hr
Farm worker - RD$75./hr = ~USD$2.30/hr
Gardener - RD$63./hr = ~USD$1.90/hr

Sure isn't paradise for them. ::disappoin :speechles

With respect, firstly I did not ask for a comment relating to the salaries we pay our workers right now but, just for the record, they are considered to be on quite fair wages for this area so I don't appreciate your disappointment. Secondly, you seem to have ignored their 'additional benefits' and suggest you remember that many of the 'unskilled workers' here in DR struggle to have a roof over their head at all. Thirdly, I suggest you redo your maths!! Also, don't think I ever mentioned the word 'maid' so where did that come from??

 

[whirleybird]

Maid - RD$100./hr = ~USD$3.05/hr
Farm worker - RD$75./hr = ~USD$2.30/hr
Gardener - RD$63./hr = ~USD$1.90/hr

Sure isn't paradise for them. ::disappoin :speechles

Just one other very small query which intrigues me - why did you convert the amount of pesos into US currency?

 

[DrChrisHE]

I agree Whirleybird...we shouldn't be judging anyone's rate of pay moreover re: converting to US$ which is totally irrelevant. My dh gets paid in US$ and hasn't had a cost of living increase (either by US OR DR standards)...we feel it severely when our costs go up including food, gas and housing. (When we calculate, our situation here is a losing deal from the $ perspective but we are gaining OTHER things such as our children becoming bilingual--such as it is--here and not being a consumerist for holidays, seeing how others live in the world, etc.)

Were you able to garner the information you were looking for out of the thread? I know how it feels to be attacked on a thread you started! You have my complete empathy on the matter!
paz y salud,
DrChrisHE

 

[mountainannie]

unskilled labor

800 PESOS a day IS VERY HIGH for the province of SPM (S Coast) for unskilled labor. VERY HIGH...without a doubt. I'm not saying that we shouldn't pay a living wage but WE need to be able to live too. The standard STARTING wage for unskilled labor here is about the equiv of $1USD/HR (34 pesos/hr now) or 1500 pesos/wk for 40hrs...bumped up for performance.

I guess the issue is about the skill level. For me, "unskilled" labor is someone that you have to train from scratch, stand over, teach her how to do everything -- and even that-- well, for me "unskilled" would be the people perhaps sweeping the sidewalks out front.

The job that I require is that my cleaning lady arrive promptly every week and KNOW how to clean the apartment - sweep, dust, mop with clorox, clean the fans, clean the windows, scour the tub and toilet, polish the mirrors, hand-wash, fold and sort the laundry and put it away, clean the fridge regularly without being asked, work around me if I have to be at home, be completely reliable in working on her own if I am out. I need to be able to trust her with cash and/or jewelry (ok it's not much but it is mine!) credit cards, passport, etc. laying about the house. I give her a key to the apartment so she can get in when I am away. For me, that is skilled labor. It may not be administering shots or doing Excell programs, but it is its own skill set. A good cleaning lady is a TREASURE!!

I don't think that I could pay someone 34 pesos an hour. I just couldn't. I tip 20 pesos for the grocery delivery boy to bring the bags up three flights.
I couldn't pay $50 a week for 40 hours. I think that this is one of the real causes of the poverty here.... Why work for that? Why not just sell crack, or rob tourists or residents, or sell your body, or your children?

I believe that at the nearby resort hotel, the cleaning staff is paid about 70 pesos an hour - but with full benefits, uniforms, paid vacations, social security all that.

I agree that you need to live, too. And SPM is not the Capital. And there are many people who have staff living in, or eating in, or whatever.

But if "we" were living back in our own countries, we certainly would not have "live in" or "Daily" staff, would we? I mean perhaps our mothers, or grandmothers might have had that-- but I certainly do not know ANYONE in the States who has a daily house worker......

So I guess we all have to figure out how we are helping, if we are helping, or if we are "exploiting". Are we here really helping to make their lives better? How?

I know a very wealthy Dominican who pays her maid 20,000 pesos a month. While I know young Dominicans with college degrees who are very happy with that salary, it isn't really much, is it?

It depends a lot on the town, of course. I know that in Pedernales, where you can rent a respectable small house for 3,000 pesos, it is a fortune. Of course Pedernales is full of Haitians who will work just for room and board. We can debate whether or not that constitutes a form of "modern slavery". That is one of the real problems. There is an entire nation across the border that is starving.

In the end, I think that you get what you pay for. If you don't pay enough for them to buy food, or pay for health care -in the end, they will have to get that money from somewhere. If you want a good worker, someone who is honest and reliable, then pay her enough for her to feel proud of and grateful for her job.

All of us can see the food prices going up. As we type.

 

[Lambada]

A good cleaning lady is a TREASURE!!

Absolutely! And yours is like our Mercedes - totally hassle free, knows what to do & doesn't need supervision. And of course after all the years with us is like a member of the family. And I do so agree with not exploiting people. Even when we've had 'bad' workers (long time ago) we still paid well - just got rid of them quickly and moved on to a good person.

 

[shadInToronto]

I didn't 'flip you the bird', WB. I was simply making an observation that for some people living in paradise, it really isn't 'paradise'.

... Thirdly, I suggest you redo your maths!!

Plugged all values in (MS) Excel(lent) using RD$33. conversion rate.

... Also, don't think I ever mentioned the word 'maid' so where did that come from??

Generally, the person (most cases a woman) doing house work is called a maid (spouses excluded from this definition, they're called unskilled workers ).

 

[whirleybird]

I didn't 'flip you the bird', WB. I was simply making an observation that for some people living in paradise, it really isn't 'paradise'.
Plugged all values in (MS) Excel(lent) using RD$33. conversion rate.
Generally, the person (most cases a woman) doing house work is called a maid (spouses excluded from this definition, they're called unskilled workers ).

I believe there are many varying degrees of 'paradise' - despite their lower standard of living to which we first world country folk are used to, they still smile, pass the time of day, and ask me if I am well - would that happen on the street in England? NEVER!!

The wages I quoted were 2 weekly, not 1 weekly.

And I have to agree with the previous poster with regards to what is "skilled" or "unskilled work" - to be able to leave a house worker to 'just get on with it' and know it is done to perfection is worth its weight in gold and with complete trust and honesty that you may not get from a spouse!!! lol

 

[Fernandez]

wage increases

depends on starting wages.
remember labour law requires:
- thirteen months of salary (last month without deductions)
- contribution to national health system
- participation in profits etc.
- full payment of all salary (given injuries, sickness, leave etc..)
- separation payments based on last salary paid, considering years under service etc...

have them sign a private service contract so that you are not tied to the legal issues/payments that a regular employee will require, and based on personal experience, there is a tradition in the Dom Rep for employed to visit the Labor department, register your payments, and seek a large payment from you upon separation based upon their service registered/declared by them. Furthermore, if they have someone who acts as their witness etc., you lose.

better to pay them in dollars, reduced amount, considering any future devaluation in the peso. if the peso revalues, give them a partial side payment now and then, but do not given an increase or you will be tied to it forever.

Pay them with a check- ask for a receipt of the payment. Keep records.
Protect yourself.

sometimes, trying to do someone well ends up damaging the matter.

 

[whirleybird]

depends on starting wages.
remember labour law requires:
- thirteen months of salary (last month without deductions)
- contribution to national health system
- participation in profits etc.
- full payment of all salary (given injuries, sickness, leave etc..)
- separation payments based on last salary paid, considering years under service etc...

have them sign a private service contract so that you are not tied to the legal issues/payments that a regular employee will require, and based on personal experience, there is a tradition in the Dom Rep for employed to visit the Labor department, register your payments, and seek a large payment from you upon separation based upon their service registered/declared by them. Furthermore, if they have someone who acts as their witness etc., you lose.

better to pay them in dollars, reduced amount, considering any future devaluation in the peso. if the peso revalues, give them a partial side payment now and then, but do not given an increase or you will be tied to it forever.

Pay them with a check- ask for a receipt of the payment. Keep records.
Protect yourself.

sometimes, trying to do someone well ends up damaging the matter.

13 months of salary, fine. Holiday pay if holidays not taken, fine. National health system, does one exist?? Participation in what profits? Full payment given injuries, we do that anyway. By separation payments I assume you mean if they choose to leave us? Pay by cheque and what do they pay it into - they don't have bank accounts. Difficult to have them read, agree and sign service contracts when they don't even read and write!! If we paid them in dollars they would not understand what they were getting so do you have any other good suggestions?

 

[LindseyKaufman]

Wages Accounting

I use an antiquated ledger system to account for wages, fringe benefits, loans, and anything else. I presented it to the gardener and maid as a means to help me remember simple things in my aging years.

Anytime I give a little of this or a little of that, be it school money, transportation, emergency funds, a loan, a bonus for good work, etc. etc., I record it in a simple bound notebook on each employee's page. The employee needs to sign it as agreement that I gave them that money.

That way, I can keep track of what their employment truly costs me and they know that they can't pull one over on me, that we are straight.

I don't know if the help understands the system, but they do understand that when they get money from me for any reason, I need to write it down and they need to sign for it.

It keeps everyone happy and honest. And it lets me know that the gardner who might be earning X pesos per pay is really taking home X plus Y and Z because of the extras I give him.

From my experience, the couple of times when I had to let someone go, this saved my from problems and heartache.

And, the gardener and maid I have now, I wouldn't trade for the world.

Lindsey

 

[whirleybird]

I use an antiquated ledger system to account for wages, fringe benefits, loans, and anything else. I presented it to the gardener and maid as a means to help me remember simple things in my aging years.

Anytime I give a little of this or a little of that, be it school money, transportation, emergency funds, a loan, a bonus for good work, etc. etc., I record it in a simple bound notebook on each employee's page. The employee needs to sign it as agreement that I gave them that money.

That way, I can keep track of what their employment truly costs me and they know that they can't pull one over on me, that we are straight.

I don't know if the help understands the system, but they do understand that when they get money from me for any reason, I need to write it down and they need to sign for it.

It keeps everyone happy and honest. And it lets me know that the gardner who might be earning X pesos per pay is really taking home X plus Y and Z because of the extras I give him.

From my experience, the couple of times when I had to let someone go, this saved my from problems and heartache.

And, the gardener and maid I have now, I wouldn't trade for the world.

Lindsey

I do that too and then we all know where we stand but, sadly, my other half is not quite so diligent as he tells me that both he and they remember.... I wonder sometimes!!! Having said that our staff are so good that if we overpay them they hand back pesos and say "we owe you this"!!!

 

[mountainannie]

Get Back what you Give out

I do that too and then we all know where we stand but, sadly, my other half is not quite so diligent as he tells me that both he and they remember.... I wonder sometimes!!! Having said that our staff are so good that if we overpay them they hand back pesos and say "we owe you this"!!!

Your staff is good to you because YOU are good to them.

I think that there are some keys here to how to have a happy time here. Although I have not lived here as long as many of the other posters- and have not had to be in business-- I have found that the Dominicans are just like other people - they respond well if they are treated well.

(I guess this is a small aside to all the folks on the Board who seem to take a perverse pleasure in denigrating the locals. I find that bad manners at best. Ditto to all the lechers, male and female, who come down here to just use the people for their own pleasure. Ditto to all the missionaries and "aid workers" who make a really fine living from the poor. Thanks for listening. I feel better. )

I know that once my cleaning lady needed an advance on salary for medications and I gave it to her without question. Now she reminds me of that, with deep gratitude, almost every month.

My landlady, for whom my rent money is probably her sole source of income, came over to see me for New Year's - with a hug -- and the news that every night when she talks to God, she expresses her gratitude for the Pope -- and ME!

Imagine that. I can tell you that no landlord in the States ever prayed for me.(or mortgage broker!)

 

[Fernandez]

13 months of salary, fine. Holiday pay if holidays not taken, fine. National health system, does one exist?? Participation in what profits? Full payment given injuries, we do that anyway. By separation payments I assume you mean if they choose to leave us? Pay by cheque and what do they pay it into - they don't have bank accounts. Difficult to have them read, agree and sign service contracts when they don't even read and write!! If we paid them in dollars they would not understand what they were getting so do you have any other good suggestions?

Understand - my company employs 50+ - they now all have checking accounts, debit cards. Suggest you make the effort to bring yours into 2008- for your own sake. By the way- they understand dollars quite well. checks are cashed at bodegas- don't you know this yet? depends on their relationships. ignorance is not defense- have them sign. it seems like your in for a real rude awakening.

 

[Fernandez]

also,
household employees are held to the same standards. They will claim the extra months pay, vacations days and other benefits - and the labour law will protect them. The DR is a Representative Social Republic - with a Democratic flair. Protect yourself-

 

[Lambada]

and the news that every night when she talks to God, she expresses her gratitude for the Pope -- and ME!

Might want to ask your landlady to include Fernandez in her supplications.......?