Why Expats leaving Dominican Republic??

donP

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Dec 14, 2008
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Imperio de la ley

I will say it again:
All boils down to the fact that this state is virtually lawless.
[Of course, the existing laws are more or less the same as in any civilized country, maybe even copied from them.
But they are not applied or applied not evenly and the justice system is corrupt and rotten to the core.]

As neither Spanish nor English is my mother tongue, I ask Sr. PICHARDO to translate the following please:

"(...) c?mo enfrentar los retos (...)
Entre los primeros est?n la falta de energ?a el?ctrica barata y confiable, la carencia de suficientes escuelas y hospitales o la necesidad de crear m?s y mejores empleos, aumentar la producci?n y exportaci?n y equilibrar los presupuestos gubernamentales. Entre los segundos, el desinter?s por el imperio de la ley, la generalizada desidia ante la corrupci?n p?blica y privada y la falta de fe en el futuro.

Esta aparente carencia de esperanza es caracterizada por el individualismo que dificulta la cohesi?n social imprescindible para asumir proyectos colectivos de bien com?n. La desesperanza tambi?n explica la propensi?n emigratoria del dominicano (que recuerda las palabras de Plutarco: “navigare est necesse, vivere non est necesse”, o sea “navegar es necesario, vivir no…”).

En la ra?z de todos estos problemas hay un denominador com?n: la falta del imperio de la ley. Sin esto no hay posibilidad de sostenibilidad. Algunos pol?ticos repiten cada cierto tiempo que somos un pa?s rico pobremente administrado y la mayor?a cree que se refieren solo a la prosperidad material. Pero quiz?s la mayor pobreza dominicana, cuya soluci?n impacta todos nuestros problemas, es la carencia de un gran consenso nacional sobre la necesidad de que impere, por encima de hombres e intereses particulares, la ley.

Tras el fugaz esplendor inicial de Santo Domingo y luego durante su prolongado letargo colonial, la costumbre de “acatar pero no cumplir” fue extendi?ndose hasta dar origen posteriormente a la frase atribuida a un dictador de finales del siglo XIX: “Para mis amigos, ?todo! A los dem?s, todo el peso y rigor de la ley!”. Que la aplicaci?n de las leyes sea una cuesti?n selectiva est? en la ra?z misma de la mayor?a si no todos los problemas dominicanos.

?Otra causa ra?z? La corrupci?n impune.

Para muchos empresarios, la corrupci?n privada y p?blica es el mayor problema dominicano. Seg?n la Alianza Dominicana Contra la Corrupci?n (Adocco), la corrupci?n en la contrataci?n de obras p?blicas por el gobierno “supone un robo de alrededor de RD$100,000 millones” en 2011. ?Ser? verdad que un valor casi igual a 5% del PIB dominicano y m?s del 25% del gasto total gubernamental en 2011 fue robado por funcionarios y contratistas corruptos? La cifra aparenta exagerada pero da una idea de la tremenda magnitud del problema. A juzgar por recientes encuestas de opini?n, la mayor?a de la poblaci?n no comparte el criterio del empresariado en cuanto a la gravedad de la corrupci?n. Alg?n c?nico dir?a que ello es as? porque los que no est?n robando est?n aguardando su turno…

Podr?a argumentarse que los retos actuales y del porvenir son otros: la terrible instrucci?n p?blica, la mala seguridad ciudadana, la interminable crisis el?ctrica, el auge del tr?fico de drogas, la impunidad y los problemas de sana administraci?n de justicia, la falta de democracia a lo interno de los partidos pol?ticos; la lista puede parecer interminable y cada asunto en verdad resulta importante. Pero todos y cada uno de estos, y otros no enumerados, dependen para su soluci?n de la voluntad pol?tica de la sociedad civil y del Gobierno para priorizar e imponer el imperio de la ley o “rule of law”.

De no lograrse el imperio de la ley, la funci?n p?blica cesar?a as? su misi?n de organizar y facilitar la vida en com?n, sujeta a los constre?imientos de legales, para confirmarse como una vulgar canonj?a. En vez de estar el Gobierno al servicio de pueblo, todos los ciudadanos estar?an condenados a financiar una clase gobernante que no resuelve ning?n problema colectivo.

Hay desde hace tiempo indicios de c?mo la sociedad dominicana camina por ese angustiante derrotero: al faltar agua del acueducto construimos cisternas con bombas el?ctricas; al fallar la instrucci?n p?blica hasta los m?s pobres prefieren las escuelitas “particulares” aun sean “de patio”; al renquear los hospitales p?blicos florecen las igualas y seguros privados; al tem?rsele a los polic?as tanto o m?s que a los ladrones, hay m?s “guachimanes” privados que agentes del orden; al ser malo el transporte p?blico de pasajeros hay una epidemia de “motoconchistas” inmunes a las leyes del tr?nsito; al abundar los apagones y el mal servicio el?ctrico, hasta hombres dizque serios se roban la luz; en fin, hay casi m?s habitantes que ciudadanos. ?Acatan pero no cumplen!

… Si no logramos el imperio de la ley, seguiremos careciendo de educaci?n, salud, seguridad p?blica, honestidad en la funci?n p?blica, electricidad, orden en el tr?nsito y todos los atributos de la vida en com?n civilizada y moderna. Establecer el imperio de la ley es el mayor reto de la Rep?blica Dominicana.

Imperio de la ley

World Justice Project, una ONG radicada en Washington, Estados Unidos, dedicada a promover el imperio de la ley, lo define de la siguiente manera: 1) El Gobierno y todos sus funcionarios est?n por debajo de la ley; 2) Las leyes son claras, estables, justas y protegen a los ciudadanos; 3) El proceso legislativo y judicial es accesible y eficiente; y 4) Hay acceso universal a una justicia competente, independiente, ?tica y con recursos adecuados."

Quoted from:
Retos presentes y futuros de la Rep?blica Dominicana - Hoy Digital



donP
 
Dec 26, 2011
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You got it, donP. I've been visiting RD for over twenty years. But for the reason stated in your article, it would never occur to me to buy property or attempt to start a business there. I appreciate that others have done so successfully, but the "rules" are so fluid, it just seems like a losing proposition.
 

cbmitch9

Bronze
Nov 3, 2010
845
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Why are Expats leaving? I don't know. Maybe it's because they can't or refuse to adapt or maybe they try to be like the "street" Dominicans and eventually get their ass handed to them. You can adapt to a culture and still be yourself. I have had more scams attempted on me by expats than Dominicans. The Dominican scams you can see coming from a mile away if you are smart. But the expat scams are a bit more sophisticated because they try to prey on your trust that you have something in common.

As for me, I love the Dominican Republic for everything that it is, warts and all, the good, the bad, and the ugly. It is what it is, I accept it and I move on. Expats have a leg up on most Dominicans, they can pick up and leave. Most Dominicans can't leave that easily, if at all.

“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.”
― Charles Darwin
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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I'd like to offer a semi-historical reference.

IF expats are leaving-I'll just accept the premise, I don't have any personal experience-one factor may be money.

I remember the DR back in the 80's: incredibly inexpensive. I mean ridiculously inexpensive compared to the states. Massive bang for the buck. Land, property, wine, women and song were readily available for mere pocket change and crime was practically non-existent (Balaguer had his "ways" :cheeky:.) The Old Timers here remember those heady days well.

I remember before the Banniter crash. Still inexpensive. And when the crash happened and the 40% inflation hit, wow, a buck could go really, really far. I knew some expats who bragged about living on just the interest on a smallish CD in the CB. That got my attention.

Then the exchange dropped to like 26-27, and the game changed. There was economic confusion. Inflation raised prices and costs...absorbed by a really high dollar exchange, so you couldn't "feel" it...but the lesser exchange rate didn't come with lower costs and prices.

The DR is no longer a "cheap" paradise location. And with currency inflation in the US and Europe, it has gotten even more expensive.

Couple that with increased taxes and collections by the gubmint, and more costs have been added.

Back in The Day folks could/would put up with corruption, inefficiencies and bureaucratic baloney as an exchange for "cheap." But no mas. And situations like the new visa laws make relaxed living under the radar even more difficult.

The more expensive costs are no longer offset by lifestyle. That, IMO, is a primary cost/benefit market-driven force for folks considering going back home or relocating to other locations.
 

caribmike

Gold
Jul 9, 2009
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I agree and I remember the time before "BanInter", too.

I agree that many if not most want to leave because of what you mentioned.

Myself, I am more concerned to assure a proper education for my son and what a future could bring him here or are there better places?

That is my reason why I am thinking about relocating. Maybe relocating, not sure yet. Collecting Infos and opinions...
 

bermyboy

Bronze
Dec 13, 2007
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Also I think people are just getting tired of being screwed over and after a while it wears you down and if you are not happy here whats the point of being here ?? I mean come on things like getting robbed and then the police not doing crap or having to pay the police to get your stuff back gets old really fast !! The DR is not getting the best press in the world be it steroids and false identities in baseball, Drugs, corruption and crime against tourists!! Years ago you would not know about this but because of the internet, blogs and websites all the shady poo poo that is going on in this country is coming to light and the world is able to see whats really going on. That is something I had to explain to my Domincan buddy! Also other Latin countries are more accesible now that where not years ago they are pushing to get expats and thier $$$ there, while the DR thinks its all high and mighty and says we dont really need expats. Yea I have heard of quite a few expats that are leaving the country who just get fed up of the BS.
It is never going to change its all a cycle crime on tourists =less tourists = more crime on expats = more expats leaving = even less tourists coming = more crime = no tourists coming = more crime on expats= most expats gone= more crime on Domincans = FUBAR!!!!
 

JohnnyBoy

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Jun 17, 2012
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I think the prices are the most important thing. The DR is no longer cheap. Argentina, Uruguay and Peru all offer much better PPP and costs of living.
Don P's article talks about the corruption, low calibre of education lack of potable water as main factors as well as lack of rule of law. Who knows what motivates these NGOs generally they come to a conclusion based on whomever pays them to come to this conclusion. I will say that I will not be able to move back to POP unless the inflation gets under control Or the US Dollar goes through the roof. I got cleaned out in the stock market in 09.
Cant blame my leaving on the DR LOL
 

dv8

Gold
Sep 27, 2006
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yeah, i am told that at night on avenida colon in POP you can get an offer of a 50 pesos bj. granted, a "woman" will speak baritone, have a 5 o'clock shadow and a juicy toto may turn out to be a cheesy bulge but hey, it's the thought that counts! and you cannot beat the price!
 

Bronxboy

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2007
14,107
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and a juicy toto

You mean Dorothy's doggie, right?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jUpxmlZ2hyM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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puryear270

Bronze
Aug 26, 2009
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yeah, i am told that at night on avenida colon in POP you can get an offer of a 50 pesos bj. granted, a "woman" will speak baritone, have a 5 o'clock shadow and a juicy toto may turn out to be a cheesy bulge but hey, it's the thought that counts! and you cannot beat the price!

"She" charged me 100 pesos. I hate it when I get charged more just because I'm a gringo.
 

caribmike

Gold
Jul 9, 2009
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Yeah, lol. I remember back in my time in POP some pool maintenance worker in a hotel I had business mentioned that. Then again, these guys have access to some strong germ killing stuff, lol
 

sayanora

Silver
Feb 22, 2012
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Here's a funny story of a cultural difference that is hard for some ex-pats to grasp.

About 5 years ago I brought a friend over from Cali to La Vega for a month or so so she could meet my family etc.. The next door neighbors were having haitians do construction work and obviously it was hot as hell and they were thirsty/hungry etc so my friend says, why don't we take them some water and food because it's unfair for them to work under those conditions.. I told her no no don't do that but my mom was like "Dejala que se aprenda sola" .. So I let her take them a pitcher of water and some cakes I had in the house..

Now.. if you have lived here a while you already know how this story ends, but for those that aren't integrated in the culture entirely :

The haitians asked for food/drink every single day for the last 3 weeks of her vacation, my mom and I were just laughing our asses off.
 

caribmike

Gold
Jul 9, 2009
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Same with these ice cream sellers. You buy once and they show up in front of your house every day ringing their bell...
 
M

ManicPixie

Guest
I was considering DR but now I'm not so sure! It sounds draining... and building a home is difficult?

So where are people moving to? Is there a similar yet better place to go?
 

mountainannie

Platinum
Dec 11, 2003
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elizabetheames.blogspot.com
I was considering DR but now I'm not so sure! It sounds draining... and building a home is difficult?

So where are people moving to? Is there a similar yet better place to go?

you have landed on a thread that is a year old. There are always going to be expats who come and go. Some have left for Costa Rica. Some have come from Costa Rico. Some have left for Columbia.

And living in Costa Rica or Colombia .. or Argentina or Ecuador or Uruguay which are the cheaper destinations (except for the airfares) are all going to be draining to a certain extent and building a house anywhere is going to be difficult. No?

But there are no real similar places to go. Not close to the US. Well, Puerto Rico? well, not so similar. More expensive. More crowded.

Why were you thinking of coming here? from where?