- Thread starter be4unvme
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Who was the best president in D.R. history
The same could be said of Joaquin Balaguer; a philosopher, thinker, writer, poet....
Maybe Bosch was not intelligent enough to grasp the power aspects of politics, unlike his old nemesis.
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Bosch was too ethical and not manipulative enough to make it in the cutthroat world of Dominican politics. I wasn't alive then but even from his opponents the only thing I hear them say is that he didn't have enough balls or that he was left leaning with communist tendencies, but never that his government was corrupt or wasn't doing good things for the country.
Antonio Guzman may have been honest (maybe)...truth is we don't know because the story that he shot himself to avoid embarrassment is just that - a story that has been sold by his PRD cohorts to make him look saintly just like they did with Pena Gomez who later on turned out to be involved with narcos...
Anyone who says Balaguer was good for The DR should be shot...I lived through his "12 years" period...
Antonio Guzman may have been honest (maybe)...truth is we don't know because the story that he shot himself to avoid embarrassment is just that - a story that has been sold by his PRD cohorts to make him look saintly just like they did with Pena Gomez who later on turned out to be involved with narcos...
Anyone who says Balaguer was good for The DR should be shot...I lived through his "12 years" period...
Me too, I was a teenager during the twelve years of Balaguer and nothing happened to me. go get the gun and tell me where to meet you.
JJ
But you could never accuse Balaguer of being too ethical, so maybe the difference wasn't so much in intelligence as in the moral application of it?
Whether Juan Bosch was a communist or not we'll probably never know, that secret went to sleep on November the first 2001. One thing we can do is analyze his brief period of government and by doing so you'll hardly see any policy that was particularly "left leaning".
"His" constitution, although revolutionary by the Dominican standard of that time was not either an indictment on his political ideology. You'll find stuff like; recognition of labor unions, protection of the environment, rights for women and children, reformation of the tax code, school system, the military etc. but really; nothing to go crazy about.
You also would expect legislation like "equal inheritance rights for out of wedlock children" to be no brainers and would expect it to be included in the next constitution (after Bosch was ousted), but not in DR.
Don't get me wrong, he did adopted some policies that could be labeled as "communist"; like securing loans from countries others than the USA (Switzerland, Great Britain) and signing a contract with British General Electric Company to build the hydroelectric dam of Tavera. You see, when you try to gain some economic independence from the 'hood bully you can always be labeled as a "commi".
Was he a communist?, who knows!, but he certainly was a master of the short stories, the Dominican "Chekhov", to whom Gabriel Garcia Marquez used to call: "Maestro". He was also a political genius, a guy who spent almost the entire length of the Trujillo's regime in exile, but after coming back he quickly understood that the country's political fight was heading toward a "clash of social classes", with the "Union Civica Nacional" on one side, representing the upper class, the military and the remnants of Trujillo's regime and on the other side the left leaning "J14" movement. He wisely positioned his party (PRD) in the middle and went after the poor peasants. That's how he won the 1962 election.
Reading his writings on Dominican politics is a thing of beauty, specially when he explains how our folks should be addressed on matters of social and political issues; "you have to talk to Dominicans on simple terms!" he used to say, "porque cuando tu le dices entra?as, el dominicano entiende intestinos".
The accusations of him being a communist were made popular by a priest named Padre Lautico Garcia, who (Thanks God!) died last year. He used to run his mouth saying that (Bosch) "was a communist and he could prove it!". Bosch challenged him to a debate a beat him to pulp. Right after the encounter Bosch prophetically said that his government would be doomed by accusations of communism. He wasn't wrong.
Now, going back (somehow) to the question of the OP, was Bosch the best Dominican president ever?, I don't think so. First, as somebody already pointed out our "best" president is still to come, Dominicans have never had a good president, only mediocre one. The proper question should be; who has been our least bad president?. I wouldn't put Bosch in that position, his term was too short for that honor, he didn't have the guts to execute the measurements that would have extended his presidency, he wasn't willing to "darle plomo a la gente", he didn't do what "Lilis", "Mon" Caceres and Trujillo did before him, (and Balaguer after). He refused to rough up the population and very fast gained the reputation within the military brass of being too soft.
His handling of the Haitian crisis didn't help either. For sometime Duvalier (Haitian president, at that time being advised by Johnny Abbes Garcia, former chief of SIM under Trujillo) had been meddling on Dominican's politics. He was planning with the Trujillo's family (and Kennedy's blessing!) to overthrow Bosch. He decided to put an end to that and ordered General Elias Wessin to prepare to invade and occupy Haiti, only to later retract in a fashion that Dominican army men considered humiliating. That sealed his presidency fate and shortly after Wessin disposed of him.
Finally, so you can compare two different style of government, this is the same general (Wessin) who a few years after tried to overthrow another president, but this time he was confronted by a different political animal. He was promptly imprisoned, (president) Balaguer personally read the charges against him on live tv and quickly sent him into exile for many years.
Of course...there are people who say Hittler was great, and of course there are still those who say that we need to bring back Trujillo. I would bet you and your family were "calie"...who were benefiting from his dictatorship. Here are a couple of Famous Balaguer quotes:
- "The constitution is nothing more than a piece of paper"
- "Corruption in this country only stops at my door"
That should give you an idea of his character...
Vacara: Good analysis...
Excellent history lesson "pa' que se vayan educando". Great post Vacara.
I think you may add the fact that Bosch was shooting down prospects of buying more airplanes for the Air Force with his famed quote: "Para que tantos aviones si nosotros no estamos en guerra?". That irked several General's who were in line to collect huge commissions out of those US$ valued contracts.
good presidents are determined by the needs of the times and the systems to support them.
people get the president they deserve.
people get the president they deserve.
And can I add that it is highly educational for those of us foreigners wanting to learn, to read all the bi-lingual Dominicans debating this subject - Vacara, ExtremeR & suarezn, so please guys, more of it! You too, jj, even though I know you disagree with the guys above. The more this subject is brought out into the open & stops being taboo, the more those of us who are foreign residents will understand.
clinton was a horrible president, he was looked at as a good president mainly because of the biggest bubbles created in the the stock market and the internet revolution which created millions of jobs
alot of people say balaguer just because he stuffed the poor class with handouts they not knowing, that was just a strategy to be used for political popularity which equals to votes. my mom once told me balaguer was great because he used to send food to the poor in small villages. so the fact that he was highly corrupt and stold millions has no affect?
in venezuela where the poor have nothing they get checks, food and housing and believe thats the only way the poor will survive. they have no idea that the consequences of that action is that it only grows the poverty rate by putting a burden over whats left of the middle class. look here in the US where the poor are receiving help from local, state and federals gov all so that politicians look warmhearted for the purpose of reelection.
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Guest
And thank you, Lambada, for always showing us respect.
Not a day goes by when some non-Dominicans here have the final say on all things Dominican, whether it relates to chicas, the environment, sports, politics, education, parenthood, the marginalized, the rich, salt, electricity, oil, government deals, white sands, visas, the law, prison, Bosch, motoconchos, merengue, relationships, Leonel, Santo Domingo... well, you get my drift. We ain't good enough, not even on the subject of our own history. Someone, somewhere, has to "teach us" everything. Que maldita falta de respeto, co?azo! No, I'm not upset. I'm not even a patriotic Dominican. I don't even do the National Anthem thing ni nada por el estilo; I'm just tired of having everything explained to us, as if only some of you know it all. Folks, Wiki can only get you so far.
Now, another thing Bosch attempted to do was to get better sugar prices from other markets, mainly European. Uncle Sam wouldn't allow such travesty. How dare he?! The communist has to go! As if the charge of communist was a bad thing! Well, it worked then, and it works today. Which is another subject, one that cannot be discussed honestly, for most folks here are $taunchly anti-communist, sin saber lo que est?n hablando.
I'll go back to what I was doing: reading DR1. But first: thank you Extreme, suarezn, and vacara who, along with Hidalgo and O&C, know a thing or two about the DR, enough to make Ripley take notice. Yeah, even if some of us are not in "DR 24/7" as "they" say.
Not a day goes by when some non-Dominicans here have the final say on all things Dominican, whether it relates to chicas, the environment, sports, politics, education, parenthood, the marginalized, the rich, salt, electricity, oil, government deals, white sands, visas, the law, prison, Bosch, motoconchos, merengue, relationships, Leonel, Santo Domingo... well, you get my drift. We ain't good enough, not even on the subject of our own history. Someone, somewhere, has to "teach us" everything. Que maldita falta de respeto, co?azo! No, I'm not upset. I'm not even a patriotic Dominican. I don't even do the National Anthem thing ni nada por el estilo; I'm just tired of having everything explained to us, as if only some of you know it all. Folks, Wiki can only get you so far.
Now, another thing Bosch attempted to do was to get better sugar prices from other markets, mainly European. Uncle Sam wouldn't allow such travesty. How dare he?! The communist has to go! As if the charge of communist was a bad thing! Well, it worked then, and it works today. Which is another subject, one that cannot be discussed honestly, for most folks here are $taunchly anti-communist, sin saber lo que est?n hablando.
I'll go back to what I was doing: reading DR1. But first: thank you Extreme, suarezn, and vacara who, along with Hidalgo and O&C, know a thing or two about the DR, enough to make Ripley take notice. Yeah, even if some of us are not in "DR 24/7" as "they" say.
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Throwing milk into the river (and I mean thousands of liters) instead of giving it to poor people does not -in my book- qualify you as dishonest, but it does qualify you as a pig. Doing that in any part of this planet is a terrible thing. Doing it in a poor nation like DR, with so many people in need should be considered a crime. That's what Antonio Guzman did and that's why on election time people would chant; "Guzman tupio tiro la leche al rio".
Now, I'm willing to concede that he took DR in the right direction if you agree that Bill Clinton didn't have sex with Monica Lewinsky, I mean; for the love of God!, when the guy took power the Dominican peso was almost equal in value to the US dollar. Four years later you had to pay around 3.56 DR pesos for one dollar, in practical term that's a devaluation for everybody's salary of more than 300%!. And that's just for starter!, I personally blame him for the Hurricane Davis and the Storm Federico!.
He was responsible for forcing the country to "accept" the "help!?" of the infamous IMF (International Monetary Fund), under his watch the Dominican foreign debt was declared (for the first time in decades!) unsustainable. With his approval, Porrello Reynoso (then Education Minister and allegedly his daughter's lover) embarked in a campaign to destroy the teacher's union. He (Porrello) had a daily radio show where he would explain the reasons he was firing a number of teachers everyday. I still have engraved in my head his voice explaining why he fired a young female teacher, because she was pregnant without being married!. If that was the right direction can we please turn around?.
Now on the honesty stuff, let's be honest, how honest can a president be when he allows his entire administration to be engaged in acts of corruption at levels never before seen in the history of the country?, how many countries on this planet can boast of having a vice-president who steals the air conditioner of his own office?, remember this is PRD government we are talking about, how honest can an administration be when it has Hipolito Mejia as Agriculture Minister?.
Finally, slow down on the "he suicided cuz he was so devastated and betrayed" stuff. Nonsense if you ask me. First of all; committing suicide is not a sign of being honest, but rather a display of stupidity and incompetence.
Second; he was right handed but the shot entered his head from the left side. Weird, if you ask me.
Third; there are several theories to explain his "suicide" and all of them are reasonable to certain extent.
- It was a public secret that he was an alcoholic. As you might know; alcoholic people tend to commit suicide.
- There's history of depression on his family.
- He had an accident that forbade him from doing his favorite pastime; horse riding. That kept him depressed.
- After the 1982 election (won by another PRD ladron, Jorge Blanco) word had reached him of possible retribution for his involvement in acts of corruption.
- Allegedly he was involved in an incident related to the plot in 1978, when a hand grenade was detonated on the "Junta Central Electoral".
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I agree with you, wasn't proposing his as the best president. Practically everyone I know thinks he was the worst bar Trujillo, some of them as a result of having experienced directly or indirectly the full force of his "12 years" and in despair at his lingering legacy of clientilism and paternalism/asistencialismo.
I was only referring to the fact that many people, even former supporters, refer to him as "el doctor Balaguer" and not as "el presidente Balaguer", in response to the comment about Bosch being called "profesor" as opposed to "presidente".