3 rules

[Carolina066]

Dominican men

Ken: thanks for your support. Maybe some of these women should get to know on a personal basis some of the consular officers down at the embassy. If I have 5 or 10 stories to tell, imagine what those folks could tell her! Spending some time in the REAL DR would be helpful, too--Gualey, Los Minas, Cristo Rey.
My best Dominican guy pal in the USA is married to an American woman who is much older than he is. They met there in the zona franca, she was his boss. They have been together for 6 years and they are making it work, but my VAST experience says that this is the exception and NOT the rule.

 

[Meredith]

Carolina.....

Maybe, If you were on here earlier, or would do a little research on the people you were talking about, you would realize more about the person and not make generalizations.
I am 22 (and your age?), never stayed in a resort or ever would, stayed in the bateyes, and in the campos. If you want to know more, feel free to ask.
Most people know more about the D.R. than you realize!
Well, I must go now, my friend from the D.R, actually got a visa to come to Canada and I am going to go visit him now! It does happen.....

 

[Tony C]

Tony C - if you would have actually READ my previous post, i said that i wasn't an expert on the culture.
.

Kaylie1
I was talking about assumptions in general. I never named you in particular. Funny how you assumed I was talking about you. Now that I think about it you did say you know a lot about Dominican culture from a few visits and a couple of Dominican friends.
I was just pointing out how so many people visit the DR a few times and think they know how Dominicans think.

Meredith. I was talking about those who's relationships fail. There are many cases of people from different countries and cultures marrying and living happily ever after. I was just pointing out that not many people would admit to making a big mistake on this board.

Tony C.

 

[Pib]

Call me old fashioned and all that. But how about the old "what would mom say" rule? HB is right on target. And it doesn't only applies to Dominican man-foreign woman relationships, it applies to ALL marriages.

 

[Ken]

Meredith, when you say "it does happen...", what do you mean? Far as I can see the only thing that has happened is that the young man got a visa to visit Canada. I don't think anyone doubted that it was possible for some Dominicans to get a visa to go there.

Getting a visa, however, doesn't mean it is possible for a Canadian to have a long and happy relationship with a Dominican lover/spouse in Canada.

In any case, good luck. If you pursue the relationship, I hope you will be one of the lucky ones.

 

[Criss Colon]

"Who Is the # 1 woman in a dominican man's life"?

When Carolina066 posed that question,I knew the answer before I finished the sentence.It is also true for dominican women.As my wife's mother,and father, live with us I see this cultural norm on a daily basis.It really shows when a "Family Meeting" is called to resolve the most recent crisis!"Mami" is in control,even the most "macho" of the 3 brothers defers to "Mami"! If the meeting includes "Cunados"(Brothers-in-law),forget about it,they don't even voice an opinion.They just nod their heads in agreement with "Mami"!Even though I violated all of "Hillbilly's" 3 Rules for Marrying A Dominican",I got an exemption because of the "Mami" clause;If the girl comes from an "intact" family,ie.,she has both her mother and her father in the house with her,and her mother is a strong "Matriarch",and you are staying in the DR,and your wife will see her mother every day,you can consider marriage!Barring all the "above",the "Hillbilly Rule" must be fully enforced!!!! CRISCO........................I have to "edit",because I forgot one important thing;....To "kaylee1", it is not cosidered "Cute" or "Cool" on DR1 not to use CAPITAL LETTERS.It is a pain-in-the-ass!If all of us can find the "shift" button,so can you! Also,"Tu has llegado aqui con mucho verde detras de sus orejas!"

 

[trina]

Mis dos centavos

I am married to a Dominican (90% of the time very happily married) myself, and have many friends who have also married Dominicans..off the top of my head, I can name 19 couples here in Canada who are Dominican/Canadian. I know most of them quite well, as many of us lean on each other for support and are able to vent quite openly with each other because we know what each other is going through.

Who are the most happily married? The couples in which one has actually lived in the DR and was able to live with their spouse before marrying them. I met my husband while living there, and would never recommend doing it any other way. You need to go into marriage with eyes wide open. When I hear of people who met their potential spouse on vacation, and they only see them for one week a couple of times a year, I cringe. How can you think you know a person so well that you are going to spend the rest of your life with them after only a week of being with them? Many say that they got to know them on the phone in-between trips, but do you know what they were doing after they hung up with you? If you don't have the time to invest in this relationship, chances are, you are making a huge mistake.

And I'm sorry, but don't say that all Dominicans are unfaithful because I do know many that are very faithful and dedicated to their wives, my husband included. There are many who aren't, but there are also many who are. It depends on upbringing and personal morals.

 

[Bugsey34]

Re: Dominican men

My best Dominican guy pal in the USA is married to an American woman who is much older than he is. They met there in the zona franca, she was his boss. They have been together for 6 years and they are making it work, but my VAST experience says that this is the exception and NOT the rule.

How come we all know at least one (if not more) 'exceptions'?? Wouldn't that make it more like a 'percentage'??

 

[Pib]

I am not really comfortable with the "biting the hand that feeds you" thing. I think that it is the wrong approach to staying together. Maybe it is just me, but I'd like my man to be with me for other reasons, like attraction, common goals, intellectual affinity, sense of humor (badly needed to be with me); and heck a little love won't do any harm.

I see marriage as a partnership, and when one has to resort to "sentimental blackmail" to retain one's significant other things are doomed. Bad choice is an universal thing, some men chose unwisely and so do some women.

And Bugsey is right. Lots of exceptions make for a percentage. I have seen more exceptions than anything, but then I don't personally know many tourists who fell in love with someone who needed help.

 

[Meredith]

Ken...

By saying that it "does happen", I mean exactly that. Dominicans can get visas (visitor or permanent) to Canada, even though most people seem to doubt that this can happen. A visitor visa is a start and if there are successful visits, then there is a higher chance on good standings to get a permanent or a working visa.

Getting a visa doesn't mean that it is possible for a Canadian to have a long and happy relationship with a dominican spouse or partner? Of coure not! Who said that it was? I like Pib's criteria, common goals, attraction, sense of humour, a little love, etc.

Trina, I also agree with you and the living together part. This is necessary of course, in any culture, to truly get to know the real person! Great advice.

P.S. Ken, I am not going out with the guy that is visiting here, he is just a friend, but thanks for the luck anyways!!

 

[Carolina066]

Dominican men/relationships

Well, nice to see that though I have been gone all day at a conference, speaking on Third World Poverty Issues, and especially the needs of children in the DR, I have given the rest of you folks plenty to discuss. To Kaylie and Meredith: que ustedes son muy verde, se nota. So now we have not only the battle of the sexes and a little cross cultural dialogue, but also youth vs. experience. I am 57 and it is clear just from reading the responses who are the 20 somethings and who are the 40 and 50 somethings. As far as having been in the bateys and in the campos, you only get to claim Dominican cultural experience for one of those--the campos. The bateys are NOT Dominican. There may be Dominicans living in them, but by and large they are slums of Haitian immigrants, and that is another culture entirely.
One of you, either Meredith or Kaylie, mentioned that they had met Dominican men at the resorts. For whichever one of you has been to the campos (and bateys) I apologize for the error. I am interested in knowing what you were doing in these areas, and also which areas of the country you were in. The culture varies quite a bit, as does the educational level and the economic situation from some place in the south like Azua or San Juan de la Maguana to some place in the Cibao, like Santiago de los Caballeros.

 

[Free]

As I have mentioned in a previous post, in any relationship, one has to proceed with caution. When a person is involved in a long distance relationship, telephone conversations and/or two or three trips per year is just not enough to cultivate a solid relationship.

Free

 

[Nelly]

I say to each their own. There is no right or wrong answer here. The generalizations do not help anyone. Every relationship has its own individual characteristics that cannot be compared to anyone's personal experiences. You have to do what is right for you because at the end of the day, you are the one who will have to live with your decision.
Cheers,
Nelly

 

[Meredith]

Nelly, I always love your posts!!!

Carolina, I am upset that you said youth vs. experience. Who says that youth do not have a lot of experience? I beg to differ.

And about personal experience, I have stayed in the campos, barrios of Santo Domingo, Consuelo, Tamayo, Barahona, San Cristobal, Haina, I have experienced many different cultures of the Dominican, but I have talked about this so much in the past. Bateyes are DOMINICAN communities, most of the people, mainly children and teenagers that live there are dominicans. They were born and raised here. It is another culture, but it is part of the dominican, therefore a dominican community. You call it a slum, you obviously have not experienced life there, or you would not make such a statement.

Getting back on the topic, like Nelly said every relationship is different and every individual is just that, an individual with different values, beliefs and practices.

 

[el_diablo]

Carolina.....YOU....excercising free will......invited me.....into.....your home.....and now....you cry.....wolf...

 

[Jim Hinsch]

bateyes vs. barrios

Bateyes are indeed mostly Haitian, many with big buildings made into individual dwellings by separating the "sections" with cardboard or very thin pieces of wood. They live very "together" as they like to say.

Many people confuse barrios for bateyes. There is a big difference. I really doubt many gringos have ever stayed in a batey. If there were lots of Dominicans, they were more likely barrios. Foreigners are the ones calling many of the barrios, bateyes, but no Dominican would refer to a barrio as a batey. They are not the same. I often hear of a batey near Sosua but I've never seen it. I've been to Charamicos.

There is a batey near Andres outside of Boca Chica. There is as much squalor as one can imagine, right out of a scene of Ethiopa in one of those "CARE" commercials to feed the children. It makes the barrios in the area seem luxurious.

 

[trina]

I often hear of a batey near Sosua but I've never seen it. I've been to Charamicos.

Are you referring to "El Batey", which is an area of Sosua?

Opposite the bay is El Batey which is booming with new hotels and tourist attractions. It was founded in 1940 when the dictator Trujilo, seeking goodwill from the international community after having ordered the massacre of almost 20,000 Haitians in the country, offered to take in Jewish refugees from Germany who were being persecuted by the Nazis. About 600 of them immigrated, of whom only a small group eventually remained and became engaged in the dairy and smoked-meat industries. More recently a fairly substantial group of German expatriates have taken up residence here.

Exerpt from www.sosua.com

 

[Carolina066]

life in the DR

El Diablo: always good to have the "devil's advocate" in any discussion and no, I am not crying wolf.

Jim: thanks for clearing up the difference between a batey and a barrio. I already knew the difference but maybe Meredith will arppreciate the nuance of difference in the two words. What would seen like small differences to us in economic status can mean a world of difference in the DR: ie, whether someone has an outhouse or NO outhouse. Whether they have a little kitchen behind the house, or (in the poorest of the poor areas) an open fire right in the house.

Meredith: Wow, your mention of some of those towns brought back great memories. I have lived in Tamayo, it is the home of my sister and best friend. Barahona, I lived in Palmaritos, one of the poorest areas of Barahona. Consuelo? That is the "big city" to me. I lived about a half hour by motoconcho through the sugar cane and into a batey. Please do not take the word "slum" as perjorative. What would you call a place with no refrigeration, no lights, no sanitation and an average monthly income of $1000 RD per month? Thank you, sincerely, for correcting me about the bateys being part of Dominican culture, as they surely are, just as the completely Dominican areas of the Bronx are part of American culture. It may not be obvious to you BUT I have lived in the DR for 14 years and in many different circumstances and situations.
I need to go to work now, but if you are willing to listen, I would like very much to clear up some misunderstandings that you may have about visas. A good record on a tourist visa (coming back within the alloted time) will NOT lead to a work or "permanent" visa. More on this later if you would like.

 

[Meredith]

Jim Hinsch...

Nice explanation about the difference between a barrio and a batey. If you look at my pic and see the housing in the background, you will see that I did stay in a batey and not in a barrio. As you stated, a batey is where the haitians are brought to live and work in the sugar cane fields in slave-like conditions. Workers are usually bought and sold and there is little of no freedom to live this area. There is very little water (I had a well), or electricity (over 24 hours without), and no available health care. Most places, they are paid by food coupons, to be cashed in at high priced government owned stores. They are considered non-persons and supposedly have no citizenship.
There are so many bateyes in the DR. I stayed in Arroyo Indio, about an hour outside of KM 22, on the Duarte Autopista. There so many in the San Pedro region and Barahona too. I have some great pics. I just need to find a scanner!

 

[Daybee]

Dominican Men

I always though I had my head firmly upon my shoulders. Then I went on holiday to the Dominican Republic.....

Suffice to say I met a boy (can't say he was a man). He was very sweet and loving. He had me fooled. He had my friends fooled. We are not young and stupid, so believe me when I say - he was good!

My friends and I have justed returned from our third holiday there. To cut a long sordid story short, upon arrival I found he already had a British girl there. She had been there for 2 weeks and was about to go home. It turns out that this girl had been to see him 7 times in the past 3 years, she had last been there in December. She was totally totally in love with him. She was devistated when we met and the story began to unfold.

But there's more...

The day she left, another one flew in (also British). She was on her second visit to him. She was last there in March (so she was keen but not so devistated when we had our chat).

I am pleased to tell you I ditched him on day 2 of my holiday and that myself and one of the "other" ladies are now firm friends (much to his annoyance).

How stupid of him to allow 3 of us to be at the same place at the same time. Just goes to show how dumb they are but not so dumb that they will not ask for money and presents (I am reliably informed that he does very nicely in that department).

So the moral of the story is that it is we, not them who are stupid. I never thought I would hear myself say I was stupid but I was.

Of course I am sad, but very much wiser.

Ladies beware....

(Details of the young man in question available upon request!)