Any Mixed Marriages Here?

M

Meg

Guest
Re: To Onions and Carrot.+pensamiento para hoy.

what does it matter whether people are from the same culture or not? marriages with people of the same culture don't have any better of a success rate. there are "little doubts" in any relationship regardless of whether the people are both american or both dominican or both chinese. if the 2 people care for each other and have things in common, then that is what matters...not nationality, culture or skin color.
 
O

Onions and carrots

Guest
Re: To Onions and Carrot.+pensamiento para hoy.

Thats a nice textbook response. In the real world all those things play a significant role.languae barriers,modes of conduct and what to say what where do play a role in a successful marriage.like Tina Turner said, what love got to do with it.
 
J

Jim Hinsch

Guest
Re: Don't be so naive

In most parts of the USA, one doesn't worry about getting "taken". So most aren't too wise to the ways of the street.

One of the only things I don't like about vacationing in the DR is that I always feel like I have to have my guard up. It's not just the DR. I feel the same way in Mexico, Brazil, Jamaica, and New York City.

I always warn my buddies, don't think that because they don't have a college education that they aren't smart. They are. Very smart. You'd be amazed at the maturity level as well with some of the 15-20 year olds. Survival skills of the city.
 
K

Keith

Guest
15 years of marriage, going on 16. I'm North American, she's Dominican born-and-bred. We met in 1984 in NYC, married there in 1986. Have lived since 1987 in Northern Virginia (DC area) except for 4-yr (1995-1999) stint in Santo Domingo due to a job opportunity. Have twins, 10 1/2, who have been raised bilingual & bicultural since birth.

Blissful? Not the word I would use -- perhaps "content" and "fulfilled" are closer to the mark. I personally believe that people claiming nothing but maritial bliss are (1) newlyweds; or (2) glossing over or covering up the difficulties every marriage faces sooner or later; or (3) not fully investing themselves in the marriage, since all deep, long-term relationships must involve at least some sources of friction (yes, we overcome them and learn from them and grow as a couple because of them, but that doesn't negate the presence of frictions and/or conflicts in our common history).
Regards,
Keith
 
K

Keith

Guest
Re: Don't be so naive

Joachim,

I have difficulty with this broad-brush paragraph:

>>As Canadians we probably have a much more open mind towards Dominicans than Americans. In Toronto where I live, I have East
Indian, Ecuadorian, Chinese Greek, German, Italian neighbours. Therefore, I have been exposed to different cultures all my life. <<

First off, I'm not so sure, after 17 yrs of close relations with Dominicans and 15 yrs of a relationship with the DR itself (including 4 yrs living in Santo Domingo year-round), I can honestly say that the numerous Canadians I have met in the DR as a group had a "more open mind towards Dominicans" as a group than the Americans I met there. Perhaps a more open mind about marriage with a Dominican -- based solely on what I've seen with my own eyes and read on this board (with no stats to back it up) I suspect that may be true -- but not toward the Dominican citizenry as a whole. In fact, I've met some Canadians who were far more critical towards (at times anti-) Dominicans than some of the Americans I met. It's probably more a matter of personalities than nationality.

Second, just because there are different cultures represented in one's home town does not automatically make one open-minded to accepting other cultures and cultural diversity. I too came from a place that had people from all over -- Italy, Cuba, Hungary, Syria, Philippines, India, Brazil, Mexico, Canada, Lebanon, Germany, Poland, just to name a few home countries of my parents' friends and colleagues and some of my schoolmates. Did that make my town of 80,000 more open-minded to different cultures? Not really. In the 1960-1970s maybe it did for a few such as myself, but much of that West Virginia town was uneasy about the diversity. [I in fact eventually left for education elsewhere, in part to get away from the the town's provincial mindset.] Nowadays, 30 yrs later, the town's folks see the diversity as a strength. But that was a long time coming...

Still, I think I understand what you mean to say. I too hope that by attending K through 2nd in Santo Domingo, by having Dominican godparents, by forging close bonds with their Dominican family, by developing Dominican friendships and by living in a DC suburb with truly international cross-section (just within 2 blocks of my house, French-Canadian, Afghani, Sudanese, Iranian, Japanese, Ethiopian, Peruvian), and by studying multiple languages, my twins will grow up culturally open-minded.

But I realize that such an outcome is not a foregone conclusion -- it really depends more on how I & my wife raise them and teach them, and less on what country or city we come from.

I would second what you say about culture/communications always being a challenge. I too speak fluent Spanish, plus have had Latin friends since childhood, studied Latin American lit and history in college, work everyday on Latin American topics and have 17 yrs experience dealing with Dominicans, esp. my wife. Yet on almost a daily basis, 15 yrs into the marriage, we still run into communications mis-connects. We get through it by (1) always acknowledging that culture-based miscommunication can still happen, even after so long together; (2) lots of goodwill; (3) lots of patience.

Best Regards,
Keith
 
V

Vero

Guest
Re: yes, several

Me too!
Married to a Dominican guy since May 26, 2001.
We have a lovely baby girl (10 months) and are expecting another one for February 2002.
And for our happiness he'll join us in Belgium this Saturday!!!!!
For all mixed couples still living separated hope you will have this chance soon!!!
Good luck!
Vero
 
J

Joachim

Guest
Re: Don't be so naive

What I meant to say was that Canada is a multicultural country. Whereas the US other than cities such as New York, LA,Chicago are still basically anglo american. Go to places such as Montana, Idaho, ect. and you will see what I am trying to say.

I lived in the DR for over 3 years and have been travelling there for 15 years. As well I lived in Mexico, Venezuela.

Yes I agree things should not be painted with such a broad brush.

Yes there still are communications problems between my wife and I however, not due to the Spanish language, but the different methods that men and women use to communicate.
 
J

Joachim

Guest
Re: Don't be so naive

You seem to think that Dominicans are super human beings. When they are tricky or dishonest it is so blantantly obvious that it makes me laugh.
 
T

Tgf

Guest
Welcome back to the forum, Keith R.

I, for one, have missed your honest wisdom in this mix. Onions and Carrots overlooks the fact that all marriages and relationships have to overcome certain issues of trust, personality differences, economic concerns. The fact that cross-cultural marriages also have to deal with basic cultural differences can result in two obvious reactions: (1) more problems and tensions, and, (2) more basic patience and willingness to communicate because you enter the marriage/relationship expecting miscues and tensions resulting from these basic differences. Marriages in all forms in the U.S. are under great stress - I believe the latest statistics state that about 1/2 will fail and end in divorce. Do cross-cultural marriages fail at a higher rate? I don't really know. Marriages mean commitment and a lot of work. Those that last, in all cases, mean that individuals are committed to each other and working to keep the lines of communication open. Perhaps in a country like the D.R. where common-law marriages dissolve easily and new partnerships form soon, children growing up watching their parents learn to expect that all relationships are not forever and prepare themselves emotionally for this failure. I understand what O & C is trying to convey, but that this attitude is unique to the DR is hardly true. Historically, all of the Caribbean had a concept of the ideal versus real marriage. Ideal - church marriage, partners for life, high social standing. Real - short common-law relationships, based on economic support as much as love, and accepted socially but looked down upon as not upper tier. The Dominican legal system is set up to recognize these varying concepts in the offspring. Legitimate children - born to parents legally married by either the State or Church and State with full rights at birth to inheritance; recognized children - those born of parents in a common-law marriage but the father then "recognizes" these children as his legal heirs, and the illegitimate children who get nothing (unless they decide to challenge the will or lack thereof). But many of the former British/French colonies in the Caribbean have the same set of relationships.

To O & C a question: you seem to enjoy our telling of our cross-cultural trials and joys in relationships/marriages, what about you? Are you happily married? Do you have a wife and if so, is she Dominican? Have you ever been divorced? If so, with a foreigner or a Dominican. After all, fair is fair.

Regards to all, Tgf.

P.S. To all of us in marriages (cross-cultural or otherwise), I wish you happiness and the commitment to obtain it.
 
R

Roberto

Guest
Re: Oh,Oh ,atacando mi nacionalidad

Claro que si Amigo

I know those Dominican Very well the one who have being there since the last five century and the other who arrive after them one twos century ago

yeah 100% Dominican I knew you would say that
I did not agree with none of you statement before as I still don't agree with this comment of you playing the protector who wan to save the Foreigners from getting hurt
well you have a lots of work to do Super Man
tell us are you some kind of Jesus? suppose that what you say is true you wan to protect people ?
do you have some kind of preventive Alternative Formula Against people getting hurt ?
oh ic el Padrino,el Tio,el Hermano Mayor,el benefactor Trujillo from all the men and woman tell us you wan to protect only the foreigner ? ore are you also interesting in the Dominican who have being use from the Tourist would you be interesting in talking about the child's abuse? nahhh of course you don't I forget the Dominicano de pura cepa only protect the white from Spain, and if some other white pay good they protect them too but the local mulato no they are adults enough to protect they self any way they like it being hurt don't they?

Sr. Mr. Dominicano de Pura cepa

don't say that to loud there are many of us who knows about history here and many who knows what the Dominicano who claim to be de pura cepa like you claim to do are doing with ours lovely quisqueya like algunos Dominicanos Abogado de pura Cepa Vincho Castillo to mention, should I give you other name ? nahhh I better be care fore because I may surfer A premature accident I better don't say to much

I remember what some politicians use too say in every elections
I can give you many example of the Dominicano de pura Cepa who end up exterminating ours natural resource, killing ours nation in every way forcing many good men and woman local and foreigners who could really work fore the nation to immigrate to other country

as you today Sir killing the only Chance that some Honest men and Woman to get A decent Partner who Love them and help them get out the social economical Chaos that the Dominicano de pura Cepa has submitted ours nations
retaining all the lands there in the name of la Realeza espa?ola + los catholico espa?oles
implemented the racismus on the island named every black ore none well educate dark skin Haitian putting them in jail and not allow them to have A legal status on the island
you are A Dominicano de pura cepa there are not error of this the typical judgmental Dominicano de pura cepa that generalize every one putting every woman in the Prostitute club who don't get married with A macho Dominicano de pura cepa that treat here like A no body , and called all the men who get married to A foreigner woman Gigolo so that they don't have to be in a living hell with A possessive woman that don't allow him to be friendly with other woman and that they do not have to work they all life as slave wen they woman are seeing the Tele Novela with Friends that get married to

there are many thing that we can say about being Dominicano de pura Cepa

but I don't thing that I have to had more because all you statement had shows the real you the inner in you and since that I am sure that people on this board are not all of them Naive as you seem to believe they are I am sure that they had realize you motive of writing what you wrote

enjoy you day Sr. Dominicano de pura Cepa

Roberto
 
R

Roberto

Guest
Re: Any Mixed Marriages Here?=tgf

part of what you wrote

certain issues of trust, personality differences, economic concerns. The fact that cross-cultural marriages also have to deal with basic cultural differences can result in two obvious reactions: (1) more problems and tensions, and, (2) more basic patience and willingness to communicate because you enter the marriage/relationship

what I answer

yeah sure and what do the Family counselor Say about the cause ?

do you have A statistic made fore the mixed couple who did not work out?
and A other fore the reason of why it work wen the relation work?

do you also have fore other country?
and by the way the specialist who are suppose to give advises too the relationship are they happy they self?

it seem like that you are telling that the basic parameter fore A successful relationship to work are

being from the same social level and probably economical?

please Translations

since that you seem like A good one trying to translate what onions have to say

please translate you own statement

Thank you

Enjoy you Day

Mr.Translator/counselor

Roberto
 
T

Tgf

Guest
Re: Any Mixed Marriages Here?=tgf

Please Roberto, I think you should reread my message "con cuidado" in order to understand it clearly. You have misinterpreted what I wrote. What I wrote is really clearly the same thing that you ask. Please reread it and I think you will understand that I am questioning the validity of Onions and Carrots argument that it is only a Dominican-Foreigner issue. Rather, it is a problem that all marriages face, with cross-cultural marriages just having an extra component in the general mix.
Regards. Tgf
 
C

Carol

Guest
Re: Any Mixed Marriages Here?=tgf

Thanks Tgf. The voice of sanity in this thread!!
 
N

Natasha

Guest
Re: Case study in Dominican Relationship Axioms

I feel sorry for you Onions. Your ramblings get more pitiful by the minute. Are you upset because I am a Dominican woman who did not need a green card from a so called gringo? Or are you upset because I am a self sufficient person who did not need to get married, but wanted to because I was so in love with a wonderful person? You know nothing about me or my marriage except what I have written on this board. Your inferences are utterly ridiculous. Your words lack logic and intelligence of any kind, paesano.

Regards,
Natasha
 
O

Onions and carrots

Guest
Re: Case study in Dominican Relationship Axioms

I guess the truth hurts. Don't feel bad. If your marriage heads south I feel bad for your hubby who would be mentally disadvantaged.I don't need to know all the details of your marriage to know it fits a certain model.The modern marriage model where the women have the upper hand.Before marriages where lopsided towards the male.Then they flipped towards the women. 50-50 doesn't exist. A whole generation of weak men and tough women.That's the American man. He'll drop at a woman's whims. Its so funny. I see it all the time when I am in the US and DR. The pathetic weakness of American men and the strength of the Dominican man. When are the American and European men going to wake up and smell the coffee?
 
O

Onions and carrots

Guest
Re: Oh,Oh ,atacando mi nacionalidad

I am not against the black or mulatto. You do have a point that the ancestors did look down at them. They had them as slaves.They didn't allow them into certain clubs. You are right. But that was then and this is now. If you are Dominican you well know that the DR is the true melting pot of the world. Where all races mix with no regard to color. Where the DR saying para el gusto se hicieron los colores is truly practiced. The mere fact that a large % is mulatto points to this fact. Mulatto is an ugly word. What we have here son indios de differente complexions.No mulattoes.One of my best childhood friends and current friends is Betete who is black. So you are wrong about the present times. Look at Hippo, one of his daughters is married to an indio and another is married to a black man.These are my people. How can I be against them.
Your funny. Maybe I can issue an edict like Hippo and prevent foreigners from getting hurt.
 
J

Joachim

Guest
Re: Oh,Oh ,atacando mi nacionalidad

Perhaps no discrimination based on race, but would Hippolito have allowed his daughter to marry a poor black Dominican?

Maybe only economic racism.
 
O

Onions and carrots

Guest
Re: Oh,Oh ,atacando mi nacionalidad

You have a point. Economic racism is extremely prevalent in the DR. Those that have look down on those that don't. Its so disgustingly blatant and obvious.
 
K

Keith

Guest
Re: You're Wrong in at Least This Instance

O&C,

I've gotten to know Natasha and her husband in the two years since returning to the US, and I can confidently say that they do not fit your so-called "model." I know some relationships such as the one you describe, but hers is not one of them.

Why are you so enamored of labels & stereotypes (dress them up as "models" or "axioms" if you wish, but they are still labels & stereotypes), and trying so hard to apply one to everybody and every situation? Life's more complex than that.
Respectfully,
Keith