Attitude toward missionaries

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No worries. There is a long standing tradition of guilt ridden white people flying down to do work in the hot sun which they would hire Haitian and Dominicans, many of them illegal, to do in their home in the States. There is a lot of money made from these trips. Now most "volunteers" are charged about $1000 a week to come and "help" the poor. Your being here allows the Dominicans more time to play Dominios and perhaps builds some nicer homes for the Haitians. If they are really nice, the Dominicans will take them away from the Haitians after you leave. The Dominican government is thrilled that you are here since this allows them to not have to deal with the issue. The US government is thrilled that you are here since this shows how generous and giving the American people are, while we continue our agricultural subsidies and dumping our rice on the island.... And you, of course, feel like you are really helping...

so it is a win win win...

right?

Guess you picked up how I feel about it... I particularly love the ones who come with the gold crosses in their ears.....

Couldn't have expressed my views any better. ;)
 

Lambada

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Perhaps you have a comprehension problem William.

Is it comprehension or failure to grasp subtleties and innate contradictons? Failure to see the 'grey' perhaps? Fortunately Funwhileserving does seem aware of both subtleties and contradictions.

Our church has gone on mission trips all over the world and realize the contradiction in what we are doing.

So, since you realise these competing pulls, Funwhileserving, let me ask you

Roast Goat head in Africa, Beef Tongue from a street vendor in Ecuador (bad idea) severe laceration and stitches in Nicaragua, and Vacation Bible School for a week in the rain in Beliz are some of the favorites.

If these are the favourite memories, the things you talk & think about constantly, what makes your trips different from, say, an adventure holiday? Does your group return to the same location ever, to meet the same locals a year or so later? Would that give a sort of yardstick to measure the effectiveness of what you are doing? Does your organisation employ any tools to measure the effectiveness of what you are doing - not for the group members themselves but in relation to the people being served?

I thinkly mostly we (the long term expats) see folks tripping in and out as fairly harmless but as far as the term 'missionaries' is concerned, many of us have seen the spectrum of missionaries who move to locate themselves here, either permanently or temporarily: some selfless, amazing people, others downright crooks who steal mission funds to live luxuriously themselves. Yes, really. Which could explain the range of responses you are getting.
 

BushBaby

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Whilst "Roast Goat head in Africa, Beef Tongue from a street vendor in Ecuador (bad idea) severe laceration and stitches in Nicaragua, .... " would certainly stick in MY mind for quite a while, I would probably remember the 'Good' done for the people I had been privileged to try & help & mention that in any dialogue I was having in a situation like this. I FULLY appreciate that 'Funwhileserving' was creating a humorous anecdote in his/her response & am not chastising, just making a point I feel a bit strongly about.

Over the years Mountainannie, Lambada, Hillbilly etc & I have seen many missionaries come to the island. Some have been excellent in that they came, saw what needed doing to help the area BEST, & then got on with it in a dual partnership manner - learning as much from the locals they were helping as they gave in return.

Others however, have come in to the DR with an axe to grind - be it their own short-commings, a need to prove to THEMSELVES how Godly they are & tell the world of all the wonderous things they are doing. THESE missionaries tend to be the ones Lambada & others have hinted at as being 'scavangers' - taking the donations from their homeland churches & using this as their own personal income. I can think of 3 such 'missionaries' working the north coast at this moment! :ermm:

The 'QUIET' missionaries tend to be the 'best' missionaries. Those that shout, are unable to 'turn the other cheek' &/or use foul language are somewhat suspect as being TRUE missionaries in my humble opinion!:surprised!

To answer your direct question Funwhileserving, Dominicans will receive you well, they will treat you fairly & listen to your suggestions. How those suggestions are implemented & assisted rather depends on how well your group INTEGRATES with the people they have come to help. TELL them what to do & the barriers go up - blend with their existing beliefs &
S-L-O-W-L-Y change their appreciation of how things can be done FOR THEIR BENEFIT, & you will be remembered in their prayers for years to come. Your group might even be pressured into returning another year from now (& future years!!). ~ Grahame.
 
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Mountainannie has a right to her opinion, even if it is wrong. She says ``Just realize that the money that you spend on air fare could send a Haitian kid to college for a year.... And that it indeed is work that they can do for themselves, is it not?`

1. If these teams do not come, they wuill not just send a $1000 donation. The moneywill not come here at all.
2. When they do come down, they bring money and supplies.
3. 700 houses have been built be a Christian group Samaratan Foundation. All paid for by doners, many of whom have made a trip down here to see the `camps`where these people live.
4. The houses arebuilt by the people who live in the villages so they are employed. Again, none of this wouldhappen if we followed Annies advice and told them all to stay home and send money.
5. 9,400 kids are in school in Haiti, all paid for by doners, many of whom have visited and adopted kids and familes to sponsor. None ofthis would be happening if all shared Annie`s `?pinion`, as wrong as it is.
6. As another has pointed out, some of these kids go back and prepare for a life time of service in a poor country.
 

mountainannie

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OK - glad to be of controversial service.

Well- I regretted posting my post yesterday since I do, on the whole, think it a good thing that Americans (and others from the "developed" world) come down and see the other side. Thanks to all who defended my controversial opinion.Visit my blog at Changing Perspectives if you are interested in the subtleties behind it.

I am not one for evangelizing, personally. I cringe at projects that "dig a well and hand them a bible." - I am ashamed at the Christian heritage of the slaughter of the indiginous people that took place here in the "name of Christ", and then the subsequent introduction of slavery..... from the "wonderful folks who brought you the Inquisition.." I am also a bit wary of those who assume that this deeply Catholic nation has no understanding of the Gospel, or that the santeria or vodoo traditions cannot lead one to a deeply spiritual life.

My concern is for the attitude of the servers, as some of the posters have pointed out. If you come with the attitude that you are somehow more in touch with God than they are, then... well....

I have searched for projects that are empowering, that actually lift up the participants, and have not seen the work of the DREAM project on the North Shore (although certainly have heard good reports).

Most Americans do not have an understanding of the difference between the type of volunteer work that we do as a matter of course in the States and the business that is called "development work" in the "developing" world.

Unfortunately, the formula for most of these NGOs and large international organizations is that the white/European (i.e. former colonials) are the ones in charge, the ones on top, the ones with the big salaries, and the locals, the "others" are subordinate, lesser paid, and rarely heard.

It is a model that has not worked for the last forty years --- with the NOTABLE exception of Medcins Sans Frontier (and perhaps Oxfam) which is considered a renegade in its field.

I even had a mind numbing exchange with my own Quakers back in Philadelphia and NC who, in their well meaning good will sent "refugee kits" to Gonaives. These were most likely designed after WW2 and contained all the good middle class necessities, like a bar of soap, a toothbrush, toothpaste, and a comb. Quakers went out and bought the stuff (retail) and then shipped it down to Haiti. When I was railing a bit with my Meeting over this - I mean- they have no WATER- do they need toothpaste? -- the conversation came to a close when I said - "Did you even specificy that the combs be hair pics or did you all buy just white hair combs?"

And, indeed, through a project called Haitian Education Leadership Project
H.E.L.P. - Haitian Education & Leadership Program , you can sponsor a year's worth of college education for $600.

So, please, do yes, do come, and do build houses, and do bring books and pencils and all.(Although better perhaps to bring seeds!) But know that these people have a deep and lively connection with the Divine, whom they talk with every day. And make sure that you do not do something for them that they can do for themselves, that you are not fostering dependency but actually encouraging growth.
And go to the local Catholic Church.
Try that.

Sorry about all my opinions.. I will try to have completely different ones tomorrow. (AND if any of you know of any project around the country that ARE empowering and are great models, please PM me so that I can write them up!)
 

PICHARDO

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Thank you all for you input. This is exactally what I wanted to hear. Our church has gone on mission trips all over the world and realize the contradiction in what we are doing. We are doing it for spiritual, personal, and religious reasons. I think Chip hit the nail on the head with his post. Those of us who have gone on other trips talk and think about them constantly. Roast Goat head in Africa, Beef Tongue from a street vendor in Ecuador (bad idea) severe laceration and stitches in Nicaragua, and Vacation Bible School for a week in the rain in Beliz are some of the favorites.

Haitian Refugee??? I don't know where that came from, possibly it was, actually, out of thin air. The word our materials use is Batey, Maybe I'm thinking of Gaza. We know the Haitians we allowed, invited, to come work in the DR sugar industry. The sugar industry mechanized leaving lots of Haitians out of work. They don't want to go back to Haiti because it's worse there. They take what work they can get at slave wages. We will be building outhouses for families, and we have an M.D. and and R.N with us who will be doing medical stuff.


Please correct me if I'm wrong and give me any other insights. Don't go easy on me just because I'm a cross-wearer (checks ears for gold crosses).

Hi and welcome to the DR1 forums Funwhileserving!

Let me clarify some points so that you become educated on Dominican-Haitian issues and related...

First of all, let's start with I'm a Dominican citizen, born and raised in the DR...

Now... With that out of the way, let's move along to the issues:

Haitians in the DR are NOT refugees of any kind or type. Haitians living in the DR are classified as follows:

#1 - Those that hold a permit to work in the country, and do travel from Haiti to the DR multiple times a year. They work for the Hotel industry geared towards tourism. Those that hold positions in private biz in the DR, that range from professional duties to menial ones like house maids, construction sector, agriculture, etc...

#2 - Those that just cross the porous border (Which is made out of vegetation, a river crossing it and the natural mountain ranges of the area. Simply put, no border walls to speak of) without any kind of legal documents or permits, which includes their own national documents that could identify them.

They're the Lion's share of the Haitian migrants to the DR. Here they settle just as they do at home since God knows when. They build abodes that have been perfected via decades of hereditary experience, with just anything they ca get their hands on. They populated our river banks, ravines and every other non-populated area by Dominicans.

They use their traditional fuel for cooking their meals, namely our trees turned into charcoal, bringing further deforestation to our lush green mountains and green areas. They don't own anything other than the clothes that hides their nakedness as they come here. In fact, you could switch the "refugees" moniker and use "poorest ever to walk the face of this Earth" instead to identify these.

The sugarcane industry employs a very diminutive number of Haitian workers, since sugar became a far cry of an industry in the DR. Their numbers are severely diminishing as the industry is forced into mechanizing their systems in order to be more competitive and cut the costs related to the Zafra.

The people you're going to aid as you mentioned are not the ones tolling for the sugar barons or anything close to that. They're simply put, very poor people that fled their ever getting poorer country in order to feed their families and themselves in the DR.

I couldn't care one way or the other how you want to call them, either refugees or dirt poor migrants, but one thing you must really consider is that very little impact, if any, your work will have in the reasons why they're in that situation to begin with.

This kind of aid should be performed IN Haiti, as it's where any constructive aid could in fact begin to solve the underlying issues that created this migration in the first place.

Haiti needs to have the most basic of basics in place, so that the people could have the support to feed themselves and find a way out off from their collective misery that abounds in the country.

Something as simple and inexpensive as funding a public well, could impact more people there than you could ever try by feeding, clothing and providing housing for a people that are GOING to end up deported back to their miserable past living conditions at any time the gov wants it.

Only Haitians born to at least ONE Dominican citizen can claim their Dominican citizenship and therefore "documents" which allows them to exist in legal terms in the DR. These people, the vast majority, you'll be involved with in your trip; are the ones that were born in Haiti or to Haitians parents without legal status in the DR while getting FREE medical care in DR's hospitals to that aim.

We're not the bad guys here; simply we're also a poor country in development. The last thing we need is to add more poverty to the one we already own!

Poverty is not a crime but a public shame of any society...

Most Dominicans don't even give your work as missionaries to these people any thought, but one thing you must understand is that, by doing the kind of things your groups want to do, you?re in fact breaking the law as your aid, creates even a major influx of undocumented migrants into the country. Once that eventually will be exploited b/c of their sheer numbers by employers and result in the loss of jobs to the citizens in the country.

One huge factor of the flow of undocumented migrant is that wages become stagnant and don't ever meet the corresponding inflation and adjustment for economic conditions in the country. That's to say, wages are the same in the agricultural, construction and related sectors where the flow of migrants is evident, to that of decades ago. No Dominican citizen could seriously consider taking up a job that would mean that at the end of the week, his paycheck would be less than his actual expenses for the most basic of living conditions in the country.

Simply put, a Dominican can't compete for wages that an undocumented migrant (which can just build a home out of scraps, without running water and w/o electricity, basic commodities of the modern times) could. The gap is abysmal to say the least.

The more the illegal migrants are rewarded via these kinds of aids, the more their numbers will become...

If you really want to do the Lord's work in this Island of the Caribbean, please do consider that serving the people at the root of their problems, can achieve the results that serving their needs in a soil that is not theirs and will hardly ever be with outstanding results.

Why treat the blood trickles, while the wound is open and festering right within your reach? Isn't more humane to assist the fallen to their feet and tend to their wounds so that they heal without infections?

I know exactly why! The majority of NGOs and religious groups FEAR the constant violent spurs within Haiti and the possible kidnapping of volunteers while serving there. But again... Why would one think that one can make a change by observing and tending to the wounded, while the reason for them in the first place is there to be shut down for good?

The DR has got poor and people that need aid of all kinds, yet their needs are ignored b/c others from another nation are arriving by the thousands and turning them into transparent people, that seem not to exist but to our own citizens...

How would you feel if the roof of your home was blown away by a hurricane and when aid arrives, it turns out that those undocumented foreign people that you provided shelter to in your spare rooms were the only ones getting that aid, while you the home owner were just ignored by them? That's exactly the sentiment of the citizens and owners of the Dominican Republic have on this matter... Why wouldn't they?

Want to aid the Haitian people? Go to the heart of the problem in Haiti...
Want to aid the Dominican people? Do so in our poor barrios and cities...

No people in the face and history of the world have aided and provided more support for the Haitian people than those that today are called Dominicans. Period!

If anything NGOs and religious based aid groups that want to help the Haitian people could use the resources of the DR and its people to assist them in getting their aid to Haitians in Haiti 100% free from the corrupted and worthless Haitian gov.

Continuing to do the work you do in the DR is a slap in the face of every and each Dominican citizen that can't afford medicines for their children, to feed a real meal to their families, provide shoes for their naked feet, learn from the energy of the Lord's words as it only can provide nourishment to the soul as any foods can't.

So when you ask me how DO the Dominican people feel about your work with the Haitian refugees IN the DR, I hope this provides you with a glimpse of how does it feels to be ignored IN your own country by those that trumpet internationally their aid to the Dominican Republic's poor...

Believe it or not, not all Dominicans live in Punta Cana's marvelous villas or Casa de Campo's green fields, in the co-ops of Juan Dolio or the nice villas all around the country. Many are just living it day to day without any food, electricity, shoes or even a roof over the heads, just like.... Hmmmmm... Those "refugees" in our country...

Arturo Pichardo.
 

Lambada

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Yes, it was. Pichardo, when you speak from the heart you are 100 times more eloquent than in some of your more politcally oriented posts. No doubting the sincerity there at all.
 

CFA123

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Whatever aid is offered is welcome in my opinion - whereever it is offered in the world. Even if someone spends US$1500 on a vacation-like trip, sings a few songs with the 'natives', and delivers just $50 in aid. Misguided, perhaps, but the $50 is better than nothing.

Agree with you also, Pichardo.

The 'suffering' Haitians in DR are here for one reason - life is better for them in DR than in Haiti.

Aid to Haitians should be given in Haiti.
However, as you said, it's a lot more comfortable & safer for the 20 or 30 missionairies in their mission logo t-shirts & flip flops to travel to DR than to fly into Port-au-Prince. Oh, plus there's better internet connections in DR so they can post videos of the kids singing with them on youtube.
 
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Funwhileserving

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Wow!!! Thank you for all the great comments. I'm going to ask all the team members to read this thread. It's amazing that what you guys said is exactally what our team has been saying here.

We are coming. We realized what we're doing is a drop in the bucket. We take this seriously. Our first priority is to serve and not try to change the people.

Is there ever anything in this life that is clear cut? Everything in life is full of conflict and contradiction. We simply do our best, and we of faith pray for guidance.

Thanks again.
 

cobraboy

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Whatever aid is offered is welcome in my opinion - whereever it is offered in the world. Even if someone spends US$1500 on a vacation-like trip, sings a few songs with the 'natives', and delivers just $50 in aid. Misguided, perhaps, but the $50 is better than nothing.

Agree with you also, Pichardo.

The 'suffering' Haitians in DR are here for one reason - life is better for them in DR than in Haiti.

Aid to Haitians should be given in Haiti.
However, as you said, it's a lot more comfortable & safer for the 20 or 30 missionairies in their mission logo t-shirts & flip flops to travel to DR than to fly into Port-au-Prince. Oh, plus there's better internet connections in DR so they can post videos of the kids singing with them on youtube.
true enough.

I live in a city practically overrun by missionaries, literally. Just this morining, 3 different groups rang the bell at the gate to "save" us (phat chance:cheeky:). There are multiple missionary schools, charities, etc all around here.

'Course, I don't blame them one bit. It's a beautiful area, wonderful weather, cleaner than almost any other Dominican town, a large international population, reasonably priced, modern conveniences galore, relatively crime-free, fairly affluent, few seriously poverty-stricken barrios...so who wouldn't want to come here?

Heck, there might even be some destitute people who really need the help...;)
 

CarlaV11

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Do you mean you are helping in a batey maybe?
I have gone to the DR for 2 missionary trips and both involved helping haitians, there was never any hostility on eiter side. Everyone was very kind and welcoming to me. You will definitly be very well received, and what mountainannie said, this is true but going down yourself and seeing it fristhand is a great experience, and as far as I can tell the people love to see us trying to help

Good luck and I hope you have a great time!
 

A.Hidalgo

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I think the above is what the OP was looking for, but I believe the "rich" thingy rubbed some the wrong way.
 

Thandie

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We are coming. We realized what we're doing is a drop in the bucket. We take this seriously. Our first priority is to serve and not try to change the people.

Is there ever anything in this life that is clear cut? Everything in life is full of conflict and contradiction. We simply do our best, and we of faith pray for guidance.

Thanks again.

Exactly nothing in life is clear cut and everything in life is full of conflict and contradiction!
Interesting topic and was just talking to my mom about this very issue recently.
As most intelligent parents and people know sometimes the 'little things' people do and say to you, especially to a child, can be positive memories, rare moments of happiness and inspirations that are forever appreciated and never forgotten.

My mother, to this day, fondly talks about the missionary team that helped her and her community as a child (helped build a school and provided her with her first baby doll and some other things that some of the posters here might classify as not really helpful)...she grew up in extreme poverty in a developing nation.
She said that meeting those people provided her with the HOPE that things would not always be this way and they could actually be different, and gave her the courage to move to Canada for a better life when the opportunity arrived, because she never forgot those nice red looking Canadians she met many years prior. lol
Meeting people from a different country and culture was fun and exciting to a little girl growing up in th country.
The feeling that total strangers cared (whether their actions were self serving or not...do you really think any child in the world cares that you gave them a toy or a new pair of shoes cause it made the giver feel good or whether or not they had gold crosses in their ears...HAHA ya right...as my mom said she played and had fun with her new toy....prior to that she only had mango seed dolls, so to her she died and gone to heaven LOL. Just like any rich western kid on Christmas or Halloween day.
Sure a doll is not a life changing thing in some peoples eyes, it didnt dramatically change her day to life and struggles, but that little gift sure made her happy...if even only for a moment and every child on the planet deserves to be happy at least sometimes), made her feel loved and special, and were some of her fondest child hood memories.

Now fastforward to the 1980's when a little 10 year girl growing up in a Canadian city, who grew up below the poverty line (nothing compared to 3rd world poverty, but poor nonetheless) and had experienced some tragedies in her little life. Gets sent to a summer camp for free by some Christian cross wearing organization/church...she cant remember 20+ years later who exactly they are or really care that it was someone who might have been directly or indirectly pushing some religious agenda while it also provided a great escape for some poor city girls. She got to swim in a lake, learn about nature, make friends and smores and sing summer camp songs that she would return home and harass her family with for weeks LOL

Now this same girl, now a woman and in her 30's is walking in a mall and just happens to see PENNY the cook from the summer camp, sitting eating in the food court with a friend. Drops her shopping bags and turns to her friend like she has just seen a rock star and says I have to go speak to this woman.
Conversation goes something like this...

GIRL:Excuse me, sorry to disturb your lunch, are you Penny the Cook and did you work at a summer camp many years ago?....

FRIEND OF PENNY: Here we go again (in a jokingly irritated voice looking at Penny) yessss its her!!

PENNY:Yes its me (with a smile on her face as to say she knows whats coming next).....

GIRL: Well I just wanted to thank you for providing me with the 10 happiest days of my life during my difficult childhood, the camp and the staff were a calm in the midst of the storm. Thank you from the bottom of my heart! Can I hug you?

FRIEND OF PENNY: Do you know that everywhere we gothe bank, mall, theatre, grocery store, there is always some 20-30 something woman running up to Penny thanking her, hugging her and telling her the same thing...and sometimes bursting out singing a camp song.

PENNY: Who would have known a little summer job I had, helped make so many kids happy that they would be running up to me decades later hugging me and thanking me in the streets of downtown Toronto? Who knew it would have had such an impact?

....making children happy and feel cared for and loved is now this adult girls life work and mission.

So Funwhileserving, I see you have a good spirit, go and serve to the best of your ability and have fun too.
Those little smiling faces you are helping (if even for a little bit) will not forget your kindness and could care less how much you paid to fly there.
There are various ways to help in this world.
We all need a calm in the midst of a storm.
 
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NALs

Thinka about that when you see the 700 new houses built for people who were living in tin can shacks with no toilet and mud floors....and thank God for the people who gave their hard earned after tax money and who came and helped.
 

Thandie

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No worries. There is a long standing tradition of guilt ridden white people flying down to do work in the hot sun which they would hire Haitian and Dominicans, many of them illegal, to do in their home in the States.

Curious Mountainannie.....

So how do you describe (or explain the reasons why) the many NON WHITE, non American (sometimes from other developing countries I know black Jamaican women, a bunch of Puerta Ricans who work in great organizations that originally started in those 2 islands, asian, black people from Canada, who came here to volunteer), some who already live in warm sunny places with blue oceans or come here when their home country is hot and sunny?

They are obvioulsy not coming because they are guilt ridden from Amercian slavery and want to be in a warm tropical paradise?

Just want people to know its not only these 'white people' who come here to volunteer with mission teams.
 

Fiesta Mama

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WOW... I read all the posts with great interest but when I got to Pichardo's I could not stop reading because it was excactly what I had been thinking.

There are so many poor Dominicans in the same situation as you describe for the Haitians (the "refugees" as you call them) that could benefit from exactly the same help that hundreds (perhaps thousands) of missionaries provide every year in the Dominican Republic. I, as a Canadian, would be embittered if illegal immigrants by the thousands were crossing our border (with the U.S.) and other countries were coming to help not our poor but those same migrants that chose (no matter how desperately) to enter our country on their free will illegally.

How Dominicans will greet you or react is hard to say becuase, in my personal experience, Domincans are gracious people that don't always judge others and rarely cast a negative opinion on those helping others.

To the OP, of course you are not to blame... you are simply trying to do a good deed and donate your time (and money) to a worthy cause but only those living in the country can truly comment and if you truly want to help the DR (AND ITS PEOPLE) in the future, thoroughly investigate who you are truly helping. I can't imagine, for example, going to mexico to help the poor "refugees" of Guatemala.
 
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bob saunders

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Curious Mountainannie.....

So how do you describe (or explain the reasons why) the many NON WHITE, non American (sometimes from other developing countries I know black Jamaican women, a bunch of Puerta Ricans who work in great organizations that originally started in those 2 islands, asian, black people from Canada, who came here to volunteer), some who already live in warm sunny places with blue oceans or come here when their home country is hot and sunny?

They are obvioulsy not coming because they are guilt ridden from Amercian slavery and want to be in a warm tropical paradise?

Just want people to know its not only these 'white people' who come here to volunteer with mission teams.

So you tell us why do you go to the DR when there many places like Guatemala that are more needy.
 

Thandie

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I am not one for evangelizing, personally. I cringe at projects that "dig a well and hand them a bible." - I am ashamed at the Christian heritage of the slaughter of the indiginous people that took place here in the "name of Christ", and then the subsequent introduction of slavery..... from the "wonderful folks who brought you the Inquisition.."

One more question/comment Mountainannie....

I have heard this same argument countless times that people dont like projects that offer help and then 'offer' a bible or some religious evangelizing, as if locals are sheep without reasoning power and have absolutely no say and will automatically accept religious beliefs that they dont really want to, because they now have fresh water. Push overs is one term I would never use to describe Caribbean people LOL! I agree its wrong if it is a condition to get the help, but that is rarely the case.

But my belief is that this statement is in a sense condesending to the locals level of intelligence. Dont you think that these 'poor locals' are wise enough to take the well and its fresh water drink it and maybe offer it in a sacrifice to a god, keep and toss any religious beliefs presented that fits their life or toss the bible or use it as a fire starter if they feel so, once those missionaries leave and continue to practice their African spiritual religions if that is what they want, as they cuss and laugh at the type of people you are talking about? Happens all the time! LOL I have some stories if you would like to hear them.

This kind of reminds me when once I had a white woman ask me puzzled why would descendents of African slaves/black people choose Christianity as a religion, when most slave owners were Christian and did what they did in the name of Christ? Implying that these people were brainwashed and therefore were unable to make a conscious descision, because their descendents were forced into Christianity (even though they always still practiced their own beliefs even if in secrecy) and therefore they should automatically reject it.
I said because these people were smart enough to understand the obvious... that slave owners were not real Christians and their actions were not representative of any religion but were actions of evil people. And as conscious, thinking, reasoning, real life people, they had made a personal choice, like people do all over the world everyday, for a variety different things in their life. I didnt understand why that was so hard to understand.
 
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