Bolivia/Morales - any influence in DR?

[samanasuenos]

Link to TIME Letter to the editor from a Dom re. Leftist Latin America ...

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1151821-2,00.html

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR JAN. 23

LEFTIST LATIN AMERICA
:bandit:
As a Dominican immigrant getting a master's degree in the U.S., I appreciated your report on the growth of left-leaning governments in Latin America [Jan. 9]. You accurately reflected the views of millions of immigrants here in the U.S.: that it is high time Latin American countries faced up to the U.S. and rejected its unfair policies. The spirit of the poor will never die. More and more of us young professionals are here in the U.S. getting an education so that we can go back to our home countries and work for change. We will return with not only our expertise but also the awareness of what fuels unfair American policies: hypocrisy, social inequality and an arrogant materialism. Thank you for shedding light on a political movement that has clawed its way out of repression and assassinations. The voice of poor people will finally be heard. MANUEL DAVID MATOS Amherst, Mass.

 

[aegap]

I think that guy allowed his personal believes to cloud his judgment.

From what I experienced, how he charaterized the Latin American student studying in the U.S. represents a very extreme exception rather than the rule.
That is particular obvious once you realize that most Latin American students come fro wealthy family.

In addition, the most popular fields amongs us are business and engenering related, not exsactly the fields you would expect a socialist to study.

 

[samanasuenos]

In addition, the most popular fields amongs us are business and engenering related, not exsactly the fields you would expect a socialist to study.

Point well taken. Did you read the TIME article on Morales?

 

[RHM]

I think that guy allowed his personal believes to cloud his judgment.

From what I experienced, how he charaterized the Latin American student studying in the U.S. represents a very extreme exception rather than the rule.
That is particular obvious once you realize that most Latin American students come fro wealthy family.

In addition, the most popular fields amongs us are business and engenering related, not exsactly the fields you would expect a socialist to study.

Che came from an affluent family and studied medicine.

Stalin was studying in in the seminary early in his career.

Marx and Engels were not exactly poor. Etc. Etc.

Evo Morales is interesting. But being a "revolutionary" is easy. It's when you get elected (or take over) and you actually have to govern that things become difficult.

Time will tell.

Scandall

 

[Mirador]

... ...Evo Morales is interesting. But being a "revolutionary" is easy. It's when you get elected (or take over) and you actually have to govern that things become difficult.

Time will tell.

Scandall

Randy, we can only blame the U.S. for Evo Morales. In 1937, the U.S. passed the Marijuana Tax Act, effectively forbiding hemp farming, a crop that was widely used in industry (manufacture of fabrics (e.g., jeans), ropes, etc.). However, The U.S. hemp farmers were able to substitute hemp for an equally profiable crop, i.e., cotton. In Bolivia, the U.S. forcefully pushed to outlaw coca farming, a traditional staple crop of Bolivia, and in its place promoted a relatively worthless substitute: bananas. This was a grave mistake, and was the basis of the coca farmers uprising, led by Evo Morales.

A similar situation happened with Col. Hugo Chavez....

 

[RHM]

Randy, we can only blame the U.S. for Evo Morales. In 1937, the U.S. passed the Marijuana Tax Act, effectively forbiding hemp farming, a crop that was widely used in industry (manufacture of fabrics (e.g., jeans), ropes, etc.). However, The U.S. hemp farmers were able to substitute hemp for an equally profiable crop, i.e., cotton. In Bolivia, the U.S. forcefully pushed to outlaw coca farming, a traditional staple crop of Bolivia, and in its place promoted a relatively worthless substitute: bananas. This was a grave mistake, and was the basis of the coca farmers uprising, led by Evo Morales.

A similar situation happened with Col. Hugo Chavez....

Uh..ok.

I didn't say anything negative about Morales. So I disagree that anyone needs to be "blamed" for his rise. Let's wait and see what he does.

Scandall

 

[Mirador]

Uh..ok.

I didn't say anything negative about Morales. ... Let's wait and see what he does. Scandall

He already did it ;-)

 

[aegap]

Scandall, Did they study business in any of the American schools where most wealthy Latin American are likely to study?
Oh, and there are some Cubans in Miami that still like Fidel.
What I am trying to point out is that Latin American in the US, as a whole, would, if anything, move the area more to the right.

Morales is the first Indian president of Bolivia and does deserve every recognition he gets for that.
He isn't really as radical as he has been pictured. In fact, his stance on Concaine has been misrepresented, like Mirador has somewhat pointed out.

He does however strike me as very naive, particularly as someone who is the leader of a country. It doesn't take a president to recognize Cuba doesn't have a democracy, something Morales believes. Heck, Fidel Castro would probably be the first one to tell you that.

Been naive is not a good trait for a leader, specially when most in his team are smarter and more educated than he is.

Something most American I know really don't understand is that Castro is not admired for how he is running Cuba, most Latin American detest that. He's truely admired for standing up to constant American agression and still surviving. Now, what does that say about American policy in Latin America?

 

[RHM]

Scandall, Did they study business in any of the American schools where you are more likely able to spot Latin Americans?
Oh, and there are some Cubans in Miami that still like Fidel.
What I am trying to point out is that Latin American in the US, as a whole, would, if anything, move the area more to the right.

Morales is the first Indian president of Bolivia and does deserve every recognition he gets for that.
He isn't really as radical as he has been pictured. In fact, his stance on Concaine has been misrepresented, like Mirador has somewhat pointed out.

He does however strike me as very naive, particularly as someone who is the leader of a country. It doesn't take a president to recognize Cuba doesn't have a democracy, something Morales believes. Heck, Fidel Castro would probably be the first one to tell you that.

Been naive is not a good trait for a leader, specially when most in his team are smarter and more educated than he is.

I agree. This is from Today's Economist. Thought I would share...because I'm like that.--Scandall

Bolivia's new president

Evo ready or not
Jan 26th 2006 | S?O PAULO
From The Economist print edition

Radical cabinet, ambiguous message

AFP

Nothing to lose but his chainsEVO MORALES, who took office on January 22nd as Bolivia's first elected president of indigenous descent, is still trying to be all things to all men. In a long and rambling inauguration speech, he saluted Che Guevara, denounced ?neo-liberalism? and coca eradication, called for the nationalisation of natural resources and the setting up of state-owned industries, and thanked Venezuela's Hugo Ch?vez for his support. He also called for private investment, for an ?alliance? against the drug trade with the United States, and hinted that he might support an Americas free-trade accord if it helped small business.

His first actions smacked more of radicalism than pragmatism. The cabinet he has formed consists mainly of activists from the social movements that vaulted him to power and their intellectual allies. Nearly all have as little experience of government as Mr Morales, who led a coca growers' union. Carlos Villegas, the new development minister, opposed an IMF-backed economic stabilisation plan which tamed hyperinflation in the 1980s.

The new hydrocarbons minister, Andr?s Soliz Rada, a left-wing journalist, will lead negotiations with foreign gas companies. He must try to reconcile Mr Morales's demand for nationalisation of gas with his promise to protect investors' right to profits. Abel Mamani, who led a rebellion to expel a privatised water firm from El Alto, a poor township near La Paz, is the water minister. He has a pragmatic streak.

The cabinet shows that what Mr Morales ?really believes is that he has an opportunity to lead a revolution in Bolivia,? argues Roberto Laserna of the University of Cochabamba. For that, ?you don't need administrators?. Alternatively, he wants to placate the social movements, which have brought down two presidents since 2003, in order to pursue pragmatic policies they would otherwise resist.

It is too early to tell. Mr Morales has signed eight agreements with Mr Ch?vez. Venezuela will quadruple diesel exports to Bolivia to 200,000 barrels a month and offer political advice, in exchange for Bolivian commodities. But Mr Morales has asked for help from other quarters too.

Bolivia's future may become clearer after a constituent assembly is set up in August. Its job is to ?refound? the country, says Mr Morales. He claims to be leading a ?democratic revolution? in a poor and unequal country. But will the stress turn out to be on democracy?or on revolution?

 

[samanasuenos]

NAIVE and $151 million USD -- LOST!

Scandall, Did they study business in any of the American schools where you are more likely able to spot Latin Americans?
Oh, and there are some Cubans in Miami that still like Fidel.
What I am trying to point out is that Latin American in the US, as a whole, would, if anything, move the area more to the right.

Morales is the first Indian president of Bolivia and does deserve every recognition he gets for that.
He isn't really as radical as he has been pictured. In fact, his stance on Concaine has been misrepresented, like Mirador has somewhat pointed out.

He does however strike me as very naive, particularly as someone who is the leader of a country. It doesn't take a president to recognize Cuba doesn't have a democracy, something Morales believes. Heck, Fidel Castro would probably be the first one to tell you that.

Been naive is not a good trait for a leader, specially when most in his team are smarter and more educated than he is.

NAIVE - Yeah, me too. What do folks in the RD think of his naivety? He is going to lose $151 million USD because he wants to start growing coca leaves again. (The US was subsidizing the growth of bananas as a non-drug inrgedient alternative, or so I read.)

NAIVE!

As I said, what do you dr1ers think of that?

Lastly, to reign this in to topic - I can't imagine ANY Dominican interested in Morales after learning that he is set to lose a huge USD payoff. RD folks tend, IMO, to be very savvy on money in, money out. Who is going to emulate a guy who basically tells his paycheck not to keep coming? HUH! He has to have another plan set up. Anyway....back to my second cup of Cafe Puro!

 

[aegap]

I like probably most sound Dominicans,, have no qualm about his stance on Coca, even if it cost American foreign aids. I do find the stance of the administrations before him, forcing Bolivians to give up their ageless tradition for some American donation, very humiliating.
What does that say about American policies towards Latin America?

 

[samanasuenos]

Aegap

I like probably most sound Dominicans,, have no qualm about his stance on Coca, even if it cost American foreign aids. I do find the stance of the administrations before him, forcing Bolivians to give up their ageless tradition for some American donation, very humiliating.
What does that say about American policies towards Latin America?

Thank you for your reply; very much appreciated.

Do you really think that he can make that $USD 151 elsewhere? That's a lot of beans and rice that his poorest folks will not be eating, right? Easy for him to say, hard for them to starve....verdad?

Yes, the prior administration made a humiliating decision. I agree that American policies toward Latin America are often not very well received.

Let's try this on: The US offers the RD $USD 151 million to stop planting all yucca and platanos (already the platanos are coming from elsewhere...). So, what would the RD do? Say NO THANK YOU to that cashola????


Thank you for some good reading.........

 

[qgrande]

Let's try this on: The US offers the RD $USD 151 million to stop planting all yucca and platanos (already the platanos are coming from elsewhere...). So, what would the RD do? Say NO THANK YOU to that cashola????

I'd hope they would say no, because it's a ridiculous demand, and one nation should not dictate another one what crops they grow. In the case of Bolivia, the US thinks it's a fair demand, the Bolivians think it's ridiculous, and they voted for a guy that agrees with them.

 

[aegap]

On principle, I like any sound Latin American would do exsactly what qgrande has said, for the same reason.
American policy makers do not understand that, what does that say about American policy towards Latin America?

P.S. Samanasuenos, you strike me as American, are you?

 

[samanasuenos]

G. Grande - was it a DEMAND? Or a DEAL?

I once bought a house where the seller refused to come to the closing - because she said that I was $crewing her on the price. Well, that is just business negotiations. If she didn't want to sell, she did not have to. (All of this occured outside of the RD, btw.)

I am not sure, but it doesn't look like the US dictated a demand, they offered a high price and the hungry Bolivianos took some shame and collected their cash. We all do what we have to to eat, right?

Thank you for good reading!

 

[aegap]

Samanasuenos, your arguments strike be as very miopic and condencending, am sure Latin American on this board think the same.


According to you, the US demanded that the "hungry Bolivianos" give up their ageless tradition for a certain amount of American dinero. Isn't that dictating?

I am sure America intended the aid to go to the "hungry Bolivianos", but do you really think that that's where it went?

If you ask me, it really sounds more like bribing those in power to impose you will on the "hungry" mass.

 

[qgrande]

G. Grande - was it a DEMAND? Or a DEAL?

I once bought a house where the seller refused to come to the closing - because she said that I was $crewing her on the price. Well, that is just business negotiations. If she didn't want to sell, she did not have to. (All of this occured outside of the RD, btw.)

I am not sure, but it doesn't look like the US dictated a demand, they offered a high price and the hungry Bolivianos took some shame and collected their cash. We all do what we have to to eat, right?

Thank you for good reading!

I don't pretend to know the details of all this, but as I understand it this money was US foreign aid, and the switch to bananas was a condition set by the US for Bolivia to receive this aid. All western countries set conditions on the aid they provide to developing countries (although the US is particularly good at it), and I would not call them deals or business negotiations between equal partners. They are unilaterally made conditions; take it or leave it.

Thank you for writing!

 

[aegap]

Here is my analysis, but first let me admit I haven't studied this in depth:

Previous elections: We will subsidize your campaigning if we can see or you can promise us that you will do what we ask you to do when in power.

When in power: OK here is the deal we want you to get rid of coca, we will give you some aid to help coca farmers farm other profitable crop...but we won't complain about whatever you do with our donation, as long as you get rid of the current crop.

In Between: Those elected with the aid of the US pocket most of the donations, helping a farmer here and there to say their doing something good for Bolivia. They get rid of most coca, to the liking of America.

Most farmers end up worst off and began to strongly resent those in power.

Then: Alvaro, with the backing of both Chavez and Castro, rides on the America is bad they want to get rid of us and our traditions they're nothing but imperialist, wagon.

The End Result (as of now), the leaders of previous shortlived administrations ,which were all about the same, move to Miami or wherever and spend their woefully gained fortune... Peacefull Bolivians elect First Aymara Indian Naive Gonzales... Castro will get another vote declaring him examplary when it comes to human rights...everyone is happy.

 

[samanasuenos]

Make Love, Not War!

Samanasuenos, your arguments strike be as very miopic and condencending, am sure Latin American on this board think the same.


According to you, the US demanded that the "hungry Bolivianos" give up their ageless tradition for a certain amount of American dinero. Isn't that dictating?

I am sure America intended the aid to go to the "hungry Bolivianos", but do you really think that that's where it went?

If you ask me, it really sounds more like bribing those in power to impose you will on the "hungry" mass.

AEGAP: Let's kiss and make up. Have you read the entire thread? You will see that I do not support US's Latin American policies. Myopic? Condescending? I apologize for offense taken, it was not meant.

"According to you, the US demanded that the "hungry Bolivianos" give up their ageless tradition for a certain amount of American dinero. Isn't that dictating?" --YES - I agree that it was dictating. And good for Morales for telling W to go stick it! Amen bro! --- BUT --- How is Morales going to replace that money? I ask because I see NO plan in place and I do see lots of his constituents who need to eat. And I feel for them. What I wanted to say is that he should have thought through a solution before telling the foreign aid to go to h@ll. Yu know, like you find another job/gir before you tell the first one goodbye. Joke. Sort of.

"I am sure America intended the aid to go to the "hungry Bolivianos", but do you really think that that's where it went?" I wouldn't know where the aid dollars went, call me naive. I DO, on the other hand, see how a Dominican would infer that it was mostly bribes to wealthy folks.

"If you ask me, it really sounds more like bribing those in power to impose you will on the "hungry" mass." And maybe you are right. I am not arguing that the US/foreign aid, and its conditions were right, or wrong. Okay. Never said a word about it. And it was probably another Rogue Power Move by the US. Okay, I agree. WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT I AM WORRIED THAT POOR PEOPLE IN BOLIVIA MAY NOT EAT. WHY? BECAUSE IT APPEARS THAT MORALES DID NOT MAKE A PLAN TO EARN THE LOST $151 MILLION DOLLARS FROM ANOTHER PROJECT.

So, now can we kiss and make up?

 

[aegap]

It is too early to tell. Mr Morales has signed eight agreements with Mr Ch?vez. Venezuela will quadruple diesel exports to Bolivia to 200,000 barrels a month and offer political advice, in exchange for Bolivian commodities. But Mr Morales has asked for help from other quarters too.

After reading this I think he might actually be sucessful, having Chavez' buying power and generosity behind him is a good start.