Bolivia/Morales - any influence in DR?

[Mirador]

AEGAP: ....WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT I AM WORRIED THAT POOR PEOPLE IN BOLIVIA MAY NOT EAT. WHY? BECAUSE IT APPEARS THAT MORALES DID NOT MAKE A PLAN TO EARN THE LOST $151 MILLION DOLLARS FROM ANOTHER PROJECT.

The highland indigenous groups of Bolivia, of which the Aymaras and the Quechuas are the most numerous, have never depended on U.S. aid to eat. For hundreds of years, since the Conquest, indigenous Bolivians have been subjected to exploitation, and they have chewed on coca leaves to alleviate their hunger and fatigue. What they have gained with Evo Morales is not a meal ticket, but representation, for which Morales has called for a constituent assembly to refound the nation and bring true democracy to Bolivia.

 

[aegap]

Let me state that I do not take issue with America's goals, just how it goes about achieving them.

 

[aegap]

In regard to Samana Suenos American "donation" to Bolivia enquiries and Howmar's mortgage to Chavez Petrocaribe analysis:

SamanaSuenos,

He chose the Crazy-Rich Rich-Crazy Part Indian Benevolent Chavez's buying power and generosity over the-tough-strings-attached $151 million American "donation". Can you blame him?

The only decent argument on why DR shouldn't deal with Chavez that I have heard is that it might upset America. I call it decent because if I were a merchant, I wouldn't want to upset the guy that buys 80% of what I sell.

Howamars comment about DR mortgaging itself to Chavez isn't decent. He fails to mention that DR can pay a very sizable portion of that oil with agricultural goods, a barter if you will. You can argue DR government is corrupt and that it wouldn't know how to take advantage of it, but wouldn't you take such a deal, specially since the interest rate is so low and price of oil so umbearable? Or would you prefer an IMF loan instead?

Petrocaribe will probably do more for DR farmers in a few years than both DR-CAFTA and the $20 millions for study to see weather we can build a farming village in Azua given to an American University/company will do in their eternities combined.


You can better argue Argentina mortgaged itself to Chavez. I however understand why it would prefer mortgaging itself to Chavez over the IMF.

 

[samanasuenos]

Mira, Mirador and other thoughtful posters ...

The highland indigenous groups of Bolivia, of which the Aymaras and the Quechuas are the most numerous, have never depended on U.S. aid to eat. For hundreds of years, since the Conquest, indigenous Bolivians have been subjected to exploitation, and they have chewed on coca leaves to alleviate their hunger and fatigue. What they have gained with Evo Morales is not a meal ticket, but representation, for which Morales has called for a constituent assembly to refound the nation and bring true democracy to Bolivia.

Thank you Mirador. I always feel honored to receive your responses.

A. 1. The highland indigenous groups of Bolivia, of which the Aymaras and the Quechuas are the most numerous, have never depended on U.S. aid to eat.

I am familiar with these indigenous groups, vaguely,from linguistic inquiries. I am thrilled to learn that they were never dependent on US AID to eat. And I am tickled that Evo gave W the finger, okay? Really, I am.

I was mistaken, then, in thinking that the $151 million was helping folks eat. I supposed that I should research it myself and figure out where it went, exactly, before I worry that Evo is forfeiting the poor's food in the name of revolution. And rest assured, I applaud his direction. I am just hoping that he has long-term vision and does not mess this up by throwing away foreign aid.

B. For hundreds of years, since the Conquest, indigenous Bolivians have been subjected to exploitation, and they have chewed on coca leaves to alleviate their hunger and fatigue. Of this I am also aware. In addition to alleviation of hunger and fatigue, there are many legal and reasonable uses for coca leaves and I am for carrying on these cultural traditions. NO arguement there. I never said that it was right to ask Bolivia to stop anything.

C.What they have gained with Evo Morales is not a meal ticket, but representation, for which Morales has called for a constituent assembly to refound the nation and bring true democracy to Bolivia.[/QUOTE]

I get it that Evo is no meal ticket. I am worried that he is burning their food stamps, so to speak, but you're telling me that they can eat just fine. GOOD! I am relieved.

I understand that he is indigenous representation, long over-due in its arrival - again, no arguement.

Okay, in short - all I am asking is that people, who know, assure me that Bolivia will be just fine without the $151 mill, and that his people - happy today - will not be hungry in the future and turn on him. THAT is what I would NOT like to see.

I apologize if I was unclear, I apologize for a few mistakes that I have made in expression, and I urge you to tell me how Evo is going to make up for the $151, that is all. I know Chavez has BIG CASH, but I don't see him chipping it on to the tune of $151 M, that's all. I wish he would!

Okay, I rest my case, shut my trap, and promise to lay off of caffeine, until tomorrow morning.

As always, thank you.

 

[Mirador]

chickens for diesel

... and I urge you to tell me how Evo is going to make up for the $151, that is all. I know Chavez has BIG CASH, but I don't see him chipping it on to the tune of $151 M, that's all. I wish he would!

....QUOTE]


In the cooperation agreements signed between Chavez and Evo Morales, there's an item that establishes barter mechanisms between the two countries. Among these is one for the exchange of 200.000 barrels/month of Venezuelan diesel oil for chicken. Today's LosTiempos of Cochabamba reports that the association of poultry farmers of Cochabamba and Santa Cruz are ready to do business with Venezuela. There are other items, like soya and beef, which Venezuela imports, and there's the entire field of cooperation in hydrocarbon development. The agreements are set up on a quid pro quo basis, a long way from the U.S. proposal of: 'get rid of coca farming and we'll let you plant bananas'.

 

[samanasuenos]

Fantastic News!

... and I urge you to tell me how Evo is going to make up for the $151, that is all. I know Chavez has BIG CASH, but I don't see him chipping it on to the tune of $151 M, that's all. I wish he would!

....QUOTE]


In the cooperation agreements signed between Chavez and Evo Morales, there's an item that establishes barter mechanisms between the two countries. Among these is one for the exchange of 200.000 barrels/month of Venezuelan diesel oil for chicken. Today's LosTiempos of Cochabamba reports that the association of poultry farmers of Cochabamba and Santa Cruz are ready to do business with Venezuela. There are other items, like soya and beef, which Venezuela imports, and there's the entire field of cooperation in hydrocarbon development. The agreements are set up on a quid pro quo basis, a long way from the U.S. proposal of: 'get rid of coca farming and we'll let you plant bananas'.

You are making my day, thank you!!!!!!!!!!

 

[aegap]

Petrocaribe also has more goodies for DR too, like the Higuey-Punta Cana aqueduct.

 

[samanasuenos]

Excellente!

Petrocaribe also has more goodies for DR too, like the Higuey-Punta Cana aqueduct.

Aha. Excellente! Thanks, I can relax now. ABC/NBC/George W The Big Mono had us worried that Bolivianos were going to starve becuase of Evo's hard-headed self. Turns out, as usual, to be a bunch of Mule Compost. Gracias!

 

[samanasuenos]

Orimulsion? Mirador - where are you?

Aha. Excellente! Thanks, I can relax now. ABC/NBC/George W The Big Mono had us worried that Bolivianos were going to starve becuase of Evo's hard-headed self. Turns out, as usual, to be a bunch of Mule Compost. Gracias!

Pardon my tangent, but you folks have been SO indulgent with my Dumb Blond Self. So far.

As for deals with Vennezuela, can and would the DR use Orimulsion fuel from Venezuela? I remember Venezuela shipping it to Florida a fw years back.

Does that Dr have any plants that run on it, and what are the odds of building one/some that would?

Thanks again for the indulgence! (I am going back to KinderKare now.)

 

[Mirador]

...As for deals with Vennezuela, can and would the DR use Orimulsion fuel from Venezuela? I remember Venezuela shipping it to Florida a fw years back....QUOTE]

Ok, here's the skinny on Orimulsion... Actually, Orimulsion is derived from hydrocarbons in the same category as sand tars, of which your country (Canada) has plenty of it. Orimulsion is a patented product made from extra heavy hydrocarbons that cannot be extracted by means of conventional equipment. The method basically consists of pumping steam and solvents into the extra heavy hydrocarbon-containing strata, and later mixing (emulsifying) with water, to produce Orimulsion. As it stands, this technology is currently economically unfeasible. Orimulsion, as a product, is a boiler fuel, and conventional boilers need costly adaptation to burn this fuel.

 

[samanasuenos]

Mir - How would you feel if forced to admit that you were a leper, used-car salesman, or worse. Yes, I do not hail from the Maple Syrup Kingdom, but rather from the place where all the fat people come from, per Prince Charles. Yes, the land of the Home Of W The Talking Monkey. Sigh. Please do not spread the bad news. Are we still friends? Remember that, to my credit, I do have one nice aliteration.

Back to DR related ideas now, um, where were we. Oh yes, now. I have been thinking that Evo will get more appreciation in the DR if he keeps his folks fed. And I have been hoping that is the case. And you've convinced me not to worry my little Freedom Fry Face about it.

So, do you think his spitting in the face of Fatty W Foreign Aid Dictates will make him popular in the Rd, or will folks just think that he has lost his coca buds, I mean - marbles?

 

[Mirador]

Mir - How would you feel if forced to admit that you were a leper, used-car salesman, or worse. Yes, I do not hail from the Maple Syrup Kingdom, but rather from the place where all the fat people come from, per Prince Charles. Yes, the land of the Home Of W The Talking Monkey. Sigh. Please do not spread the bad news. Are we still friends? Remember that, to my credit, I do have one nice aliteration.

Back to DR related ideas now, um, where were we. Oh yes, now. I have been thinking that Evo will get more appreciation in the DR if he keeps his folks fed. And I have been hoping that is the case. And you've convinced me not to worry my little Freedom Fry Face about it.

So, do you think his spitting in the face of Fatty W Foreign Aid Dictates will make him popular in the Rd, or will folks just think that he has lost his coca buds, I mean - marbles?

Thank god you're not a Canuck! especially one of those ugly, fat, aging female tourists who come to our country to corrupt our clean-cut young men, or those voracious miners eager to despoil our land and leave in their wake a landscape of polution and barrenness. Regarding Evo, the only sympathy he'll get in the DR is akin to one given to underdogs who against all odds manage to make it to the finish line. The DR and Bolivia are worlds apart. Have you been to Bolivia? I can't fathom how can people live at those altitudes. Personally, once I get over 3.000 meters my heart jumps into overdrive and breathing becomes a conscious activity. No wonder Bolivians need the coca leaves to survive. I would say it's practically impossible to make Dominicans drop their Santo Domingo coffee for coca leaves tea, much less their mang? and salami.

 

[aegap]

AEGAP:

"I am sure America intended the aid to go to the "hungry Bolivianos", but do you really think that that's where it went?" I wouldn't know where the aid dollars went, call me naive. I DO, on the other hand, see how a Dominican would infer that it was mostly bribes to wealthy folks.

Read the New York Times article cited in this tread ,and you will be able to better understand my "subsidizing the campaign bribing when in power" theory, in this case through a government funded NGO (what an oximoron!!!).

 

[samanasuenos]

Thank you.

Read the New York Times article cited in this tread and you will be able to better understand my subsidizing the campaign bribing while in power theory, in this case through a government funded NGO.

Aegap - Thank you, I started reading it, but got side-tracked. I will pick it back up, thanks for the tip. I appreciate it. Have a good dia! Chau, -- SamFatty

 

[aegap]

Let me also emphasize that this same government funded NGO did not hesitate to recognize the unconstiutional government, which forcefully removed Chavez from power two years ago. I believe it also helped fund those behind the illigal coup.


Therefore, we can infer they probably had something similar planned for Venezuela too. i.e. take the demecratically elected guy out of power, by whatever means necessary...set up a "interim government" (not eleceted and hence undemocratic) to your liking...work very delegently to make sure the following elected government is compose of those you better like. All this irregadless of the people.



So much rhetoc about mandates and spreading democracy around the world, and for what?
Sounds to me more like, "whatever the highest bidder (read lobbiest) asks for, will be our actual foreign policy"

....Le salio' el tiro por la culata.

 

[gougeonit]

The mighty dollar will win out

The rising tide of socialistic governments in the Latin world is a concern of the United States; With the current administration preoccupied with the middle east, and will be for some time (ie Iran)to come. People who think that the U.S. will let this movement wash across the region, are sadly mistaken. When corporations starts losing money, infrastructure, then the sh-t will hit the fan! Ask Honduras or Nicaragua, Panama.
My two cents, with inflation a quarter.

 

[aegap]

So indeed the U.S. will once again come to the rescue

In your opinion, how long will it take for America to deal with its other "preoccupation"?

 

[easygoin]

The rising tide of socialistic governments in the Latin world is a concern of the United States; With the current administration preoccupied with the middle east, and will be for some time (ie Iran)to come. People who think that the U.S. will let this movement wash across the region, are sadly mistaken. When corporations starts losing money, infrastructure, then the sh-t will hit the fan! Ask Honduras or Nicaragua, Panama.
My two cents, with inflation a quarter.

The US is in bad shape.... but the Jews who run our country will not stand for it in the long run.

As far as the third world country..... I don't care if dictatorship or not( Brazil )will be a world power for that region. And every other country will be a mere bag of shells. They just have too much natural resource over anybody else.

 

[bob saunders]

The US is in bad shape.... but the Jews who run our country will not stand for it in the long run.

.

I wasn't aware that Cheney and gang were Jewish. A rather racist and uninformed comment.

 

[gougeonit]

The US is in bad shape.... but the Jews who run our country will not stand for it in the long run.

As far as the third world country..... I don't care if dictatorship or not( Brazil )will be a world power for that region. And every other country will be a mere bag of shells. They just have too much natural resource over anybody else.

True to an extent, but you have to factor in the external debit Brazil has, and the fact that a small minority control the vast majority. Funny; sounds like the same tune thats playing in the DR.