Conan O'Brien's visit to Haiti

[the gorgon]

Forget the blame game. Want to begin solving the problem or just fart around for another 25 years watching the problems grow in scope to the point that no amount of money or intervention can pull the rabbit out of the hat?

I'd be prepared to let any interested country(s) with a genuine interest in reversing the slide into despair and anarchy take control of Haiti for as long as it takes. Maybe the UN could take this on as a worthy singular cause rather than continuing to falter and tarnish its credibility by administering failed military interventions around the world.

I don't have the answers, but I am smart enough to realize that more of the same is deterimental and Haiti is incapable of helping itself.

actually, it is not a blame game. it is an assessment of cause, and effect. without an understanding of what got Haiti to where it is, any attempts to repair the damages might be little more than a reprise of the past errors.

i am racking my brain, and i cannot think of any country with the wherewithal to help Haiti which would be willing to do so. not without some serious amounts of quid pro quo.

 

[Cdn_Gringo]

Maybe the time has come to ask the people of Haiti directly if they wish to secede some of their sovereignty as a country in lieu of a brighter long term future within some form of political alliance/affiliation with a strong national partner - not that finding such a country will be easy. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

A whole lot of somethings will eventually need to change.

 

[bob saunders]

The problems in Haiti are many and there is plenty of blame, but the biggest issue was in choice of Dictators. The DR got Trujillo , who was truly a monster, but developed a public education system, developed an industrial base, and there was law and order. Haiti had Duvalier who ruled to enrich himself and cronies with no regard for the rest of the population. He caused the Haitian brain drain, literally. 84 percent of the educated class left during his and his sons reigns of terror. Most of those people have never returned. How do you advance a country without educated people? Blaming the current situation on the debt to France that was paid off 70 years ago is a cop out.
Bad government and lack of government are the main causes for the current situation. The government confiscated peasant land holdings and allotted them to members of the militia, who had no official salary and made their living through crime and extortion.The dispossessed swelled the slums by fleeing to the capital to seek meager incomes to feed themselves. Malnutrition and famine became endemic....etc.

 

[frank recktenwald]

Maybe the time has come to ask the people of Haiti directly if they wish to secede some of their sovereignty as a country in lieu of a brighter long term future within some form of political alliance/affiliation with a strong national partner - not that finding such a country will be easy. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

A whole lot of somethings will eventually need to change.

More likely it's impossible, maybe China.
The way I see it poor Haiti is fukked. :ermm:

 

[bob saunders]

https://books.google.com.do/books?i...s the main cause for haiti's failures&f=false

 

[the gorgon]

before all the caribbean historians start telling us what is wrong with Haiti, from a historical perspective, maybe they should read this, for starters.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-quigley/why-the-us-owes-haiti-bil_b_426260.html


let us make a few things clear. the motto of the French Revolution was Liberty, Equality, Brotherhood. the French Revolution came less than 20 years after the American Revolution , and only about 3 years after the Constitutional Convention. Jefferson was highly laudatory of the French Revolution, and its ideals, the most important of which was the shedding of the yoke of oppression. however, because he was a slaveowner, and was afraid that the slave revolt and overthrow of the planter class in Haiti might affect the US, hewas not so enamored of Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity, for the Haitians. this mindset has continued through history.

anybody who believes that being saddled with an onerous debt burden for 142 years has no lasting effect on the economy of a country is not thinking seriously.

 

[Caonabo]

Does one need to be enamored with, or want to reside or vacation in, a country to care about the well-being of that country's people?

As I was packing for yet another conference, I did not have the opportunity to respond. I will do so now, rather briefly. I hope I do not repeat any words that may have been previously stated.
No, they do not need to, but it historically is a mechanism people utilize globally when they possess strong feelings or sentiments towards a region or it's inhabitants. Especially when they believe the population to be suffering or under some sort of oppression, victimization, or other type of ill treatment. Have we not seen the same right here within the borders of the RD from time to time? It is human nature, but not so much when that location is Haiti.

 

[Caonabo]

It's amazing how much hate for Haiti that exists.

To make an unabashed statement as such, you are obviously not well tuned in the subject of global events. This is a frequent error on the part of those who watch events from abroad, or are deeply removed from the subject matter at hand.

 

[Caonabo]

I agree, screw the poor!!! Let them rot!!

Yet again, another unabashed expression which does not do anything but cause high tension and divisiveness. How does this assist the people of Haiti? I hope it is, as mentioned previously, due to a loose grasp of the subject matter at hand, rather than purposely trying to provoke or induce the sentiments of others through fiery oratory.

 

[cobraboy]

Haitians #1 mistake was not killing all the French on the island 200+ years ago. Certainly they had the army and will to do so, and still pose a fearsome, significant threat to any invaders trying to re-shackle what they fought for: Freedom.

Instead, they allowed themselves, once again, to be sold into virtual slavery. That was just dumb. Thay got snookered.

They have no one to blame but themselves. They made a choice and have never been able to recover.

I doubt Haiti can be fixed.

 

[Caonabo]

How much time, effort, and money have you personally contributed to helping the Haitians here in the DR. It's nice to sit back and criticise and tell everyone to give more.
It's another thing to get off your butt and help out for a few years and see your efforts are a waste of time as these people have a sense of entitlement that puts Paris Hilton to shame.
But your point of "screw them and let them rot" has some validity to it.

I tend to agree with the beginning of your statement, but I can not say that I agree at all with the belief of a "sense of entitlement" that you make mention of.

 

[ctrob]

They made a choice and have never been able to recover.

I doubt Haiti can be fixed.

I think the only way it happens is if a true leader rises up, with love of country, and convinces their people that they need to get to work. Come up with a long term plan, instill pride, and get the people behind him (or her).

Clean out the corruption, maybe enact something similar to the Civilian Conservation Corp that was used in the States during the 40's - start planting and building. It would be a long hard road, but tourism could be their natural resource that saves them. But without that leader, and without the people getting behind that leader, nothing changes.

 

[Caonabo]

the failure of Haiti cannot be traced to something which happened two years ago. Haiti has been made to fail since the end of the revolution, in 1804. there is a heck of a lot of blame to go around, but passports certainly are not a part of the issue.

Incorrect. Passports are just one example, and I believe the poster was just highlighting the most recent exemplar.

 

[Caonabo]

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/01...nce-husband-arrested-by-immigration-officers/

This is a wonderful example of how most Europeans and North Americans muddle topics at hand by interjecting their social justice narratives. This story has absolutely nothing to do with the plight of Haiti, but everything to do with a common criminal who abused the hands that were opened for him. Absurd.

 

[Caonabo]

More likely it's impossible, maybe China.
The way I see it poor Haiti is fukked. :ermm:

And what exactly would be the incentive for China to take on such a task? Not being cantankerous, but rather, seeking clarification for legitimate long term proposals.

 

[Caonabo]

https://books.google.com.do/books?i...s the main cause for haiti's failures&f=false

Seems to be an on topic, interesting read in regards to Haiti's macroeconomic history. I will purchase it for my upcoming travels.

 

[the gorgon]

Incorrect. Passports are just one example, and I believe the poster was just highlighting the most recent exemplar.

help me out, please, by explaining the significance of the Haitian passport scam, insofar as it has a determining effect on Haiti today. if i read it right, it happened maybe 2 years ago. Haiti was a basket case long ago.

let us get some perspective here. the Duvalier mob was a gang of thieves, but they did not clean out the treasury, because ther wasn't much to steal. the Haitian government was working with the Swiss government , trying to get them to pressure the banks who were holding 6 million dollars deposited there by the entire Duvalier family. six million is peanuts...

just remember who backed them in power...they used to use USAID trucks to ferry their supporters for political rallies.

 

[the gorgon]

And what exactly would be the incentive for China to take on such a task? Not being cantankerous, but rather, seeking clarification for legitimate long term proposals.

the same reason they are making infrastructure improvements all over the caribbean. build good roads, charge tolls, make your money back. the country benefits, so does China.

 

[Caonabo]

before all the caribbean historians start telling us what is wrong with Haiti, from a historical perspective, maybe they should read this, for starters.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-quigley/why-the-us-owes-haiti-bil_b_426260.html


let us make a few things clear. the motto of the French Revolution was Liberty, Equality, Brotherhood. the French Revolution came less than 20 years after the American Revolution , and only about 3 years after the Constitutional Convention. Jefferson was highly laudatory of the French Revolution, and its ideals, the most important of which was the shedding of the yoke of oppression. however, because he was a slaveowner, and was afraid that the slave revolt and overthrow of the planter class in Haiti might affect the US, hewas not so enamored of Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity, for the Haitians. this mindset has continued through history.

anybody who believes that being saddled with an onerous debt burden for 142 years has no lasting effect on the economy of a country is not thinking seriously.

William Quigley? The Huffington Post? Seriously?
This is exactly what has been a contributing factor to absolutely nothing being accomplished. Just one more North American social justice warrior, out to make his next profit. This is not needed, nor desired. What is desperately required is exactly which you are telling people to delay.....input by serious minded Caribbean historians. Specifically, those of Haitian ancestry.

 

[Caonabo]

before all the caribbean historians start telling us what is wrong with Haiti, from a historical perspective, maybe they should read this, for starters.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-quigley/why-the-us-owes-haiti-bil_b_426260.html


let us make a few things clear. the motto of the French Revolution was Liberty, Equality, Brotherhood. the French Revolution came less than 20 years after the American Revolution , and only about 3 years after the Constitutional Convention. Jefferson was highly laudatory of the French Revolution, and its ideals, the most important of which was the shedding of the yoke of oppression. however, because he was a slaveowner, and was afraid that the slave revolt and overthrow of the planter class in Haiti might affect the US, hewas not so enamored of Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity, for the Haitians. this mindset has continued through history.

anybody who believes that being saddled with an onerous debt burden for 142 years has no lasting effect on the economy of a country is not thinking seriously.

However, I do not believe that we can bring Thomas Jefferson before some sort of tribunal, or ask his thoughts on the matter as it exists today. So, this is a rather nugatory observation. Again, you can not solve the Haitian problem that exists today, by assessing blame to Europeans or North Americans that have been dead for almost 200 years.