Dominican Immigrants in the U.S.: Poverty, Education and Welfare

[Vacara]

Interesting thought. Could it be that if there was a strong, historical pattern of direct government welfare assistance in the country of origin, the immigrant is more likely to apply in the U.S.? For example, Jamaicans are the 5th poorest, yet the rank much lower in the list for % of them that ask for welfare benefits. Is the government welfare system in Jamaica not as institutionalized and part of the culture as here in the DR?

What percentage of Jamaicans have green cards?, because you can be poor but without legal papers won't be able to get any benefit.

That would seem to make logical sense, but it seems the DR has something else going on for it, because: 64.4% of Guatemalans have below a high school degree, vs. only 38% of Dominicans. 4% of Guatemalans have a college degree vs. 10% of Dominicans. 21.3% of Guatemalans live in poverty, vs. 27.9% of Dominicans. And when it comes to welfare, only 38.7% of Guatemalans use welfare, vs. 63% of Dominicans. Why are the Guatemalans then, who have much lower levels of education, less likely to live in poverty and much less likely to use welfare than Dominicans?

Again; what percentage of Guatemalans have green cards?, I know Dominicans are very clever at that, no way they can make it back across the border like Centroamericans so they pretty much have one shot at staying here.

Dominicans are always willing to pay 10,000 dollars to marry a citizen and be sponsored, you'll hardly see for instance a Mexican doing that.

Numerous people from Centroamerica are here either illegally (no chance of getting benefits) or fall under a program named TPS (zip benefits also).

Due to their political stability Dominicans can go back to DR anytime, so they don't have to worry about being assimilated, establishing good credit, having a solid bank account etc. in order to buy a house in the US, Dominicans rather cry poverty so they can get benefits that would allow them to buy/built houses in DR.

On the other hand, who the hell want to go back to Haiti?.

Minerva's report says that only 5.1 % of Dominicans are self employed, does that take into account the thousands of livery taxi drivers?.

 

[Vacara]

This is speculating in my part but maybe the fact that 90% of the Dominicans in the US lives in New York, one of the most expensive cities in the world and the most expensive in the USA, make them easier to qualify for poverty thus qualify for welfare benefits and if it given, why not use it. Not justifying, just thinking and speculating a bit.

With the same money you are poor in NY you can be middle class in Florida, that is what I am thinking. Don't slam me for that.

Excellent point.

 

[bienamor]

Recognition

A very important point for that same source Minerva:



I believe the lack of education or knowledge of the English language, force them to get low skilled low payed jobs, of which they can't make end meets and have to apply for welfare. There is also the lack of compatibility and recognition of DR universities in the USA, as there a LOT of DR lawyers driving black taxis in NY, or doing some other low skill type of job. The same happens if you are a doctor (now they are starting to recognize the UASD and UNIBE titles in the states), or an accountant.

Recognition of certain degrees wont help. The Lawyers will still have to study US law in order to pass a state bar exam. Same with the Doctors, Accountants will have to study US Accounting standards.
Now if your talking IT, some engineering, OK, but most of the other professions will require them to go back to school. Social Services, and teaching again back to school to gain the education requirements.
Example my daughter has a masters in analytical chemistry, but she is not qualified to teach it. due to not having the education requirements.

 

[Golo100]

Someone said "poverty in America is a function of culture and behavior at least as much as of entrenched injustice". When you mix several cultures of poverty and add the "dame lo mio, donde esta mi fundita" Dominican culture value you end up with a community that thrives on giveaways. Not that all Dominicans are like that. Granted many do work and contribute their labor to progress in the USA. But there is a large sub-culture that survives on the same freebies many Dominicans here use to survive.
Most Dominicans abroad live in ghettos and refuse to experiment with integrating into the mainstream. They don't understand they can be better off doing this. This is even true of Dominican professionals graduated from US colleges. They remain mostly in the same neighborhood.
I lived in New York, Miami, Chicago and as soon as I graduated from college I moved out of the "hood" and found a different world out there. I made it out. I never really abandoned my roots, but I built networks in the mainstream while continuing socializing with Latin people. In Chicago for example I lived in the Gold Coast and my "coro" was mostly the Rush Street society. But I would also venture into Milwaukee Ave. and even Little Village to "keep in touch". But most Dominicans just can't get away and they get into this rut. They live uncomfortably in small apartments and houses with their entire family, cousins, nephews, aunts, uncles, 5 to a room and so on, just to be able to stick together. So they learn how to use the system. Welfare and food stamps are there for the taking. Have babies and get the reward. How foolish? I keep trying to tell young people I meet in DR "don't have kids unless you own your car and home outright". They tell me "Well, I want to have many children because when I get old they can support me". How mistaken!
Is that the reason for the family? This is stacking the poverty vicious circle and turning it into the permanent energy wheel. Poverty feeds itself with ignorance and cultural myths. Dominicans in New York moved into the Broadway corridor all the way from 96th. St. to the upper streets of Washington Heights and mixed in with the NewYorkRicans and Blacks along Audubon Avenue, 125th. Street and found out these other cultures were very much like them. And they joined the "coro". It's the American Dream of the Ghetto. Have many children, apply for welfare and food stamps, hope that one of the becomes a "capo" so you can buy some Khoury blocks, cement and varilla to build a mansion in Las Caobas, Sabana Perdida, and Villas Agricolas and show everybody your latest bling-bling.

 

[bachata]

Thanks Vacara for saying what I can't couse my poor Englishand and let me write something else; Dominican Yorker ouns the 80 % of all the nice houses you see in the middle and high class naighborhoods in the DR.

JJ

 

[pkaide1]

I have always been somewhat suspect of these official statistics about Dominicans in the US. Many in the Dominican community who receive some sort of welfare benefits are about the maintain assest in the DR without the knowledge of the US government. I personally know many who own from 20 - 1000 tareas of land, or have build a house and rent it out or just have it sitting there waiting for them, and are able to receive benefits. Medicaid is probably the most important and most valuable. Section 8 also makes a big difference for quite a few families.

The reality of using public assistance is you can not actually pay your bills if that is your only source of income. You must have something on the side which pays cash and you can't maintain a bank account over a very small amount. There is fairly large underground economy in any major city with a large immigrant population. With all these Dominican owned bodegas all over the place, 5% seems low for business ownership.

you are right. A good example was a guy in Washington high named Liberato who used to own three supermarkets and guess what his wife and children were taking welfare. It was all good until the government knew about it and put him in jail and lost two supermarkets. He was big in the Dominican community.

 

[Tom F.]

"Most Dominicans abroad live in ghettos and refuse to experiment with integrating into the mainstream. They don't understand they can be better off doing this. This is even true of Dominican professionals graduated from US colleges. They remain mostly in the same neighborhood." Golo

I'm not sure if Washington Heights is too much of a ghetto anymore. Lot' of changes over the last 20 years. We moved to the the other side of the Hudson and have children in the schools. Lot's of Dominican families living over here in suberbia. We also have way too many primos and primas scattered all over New Jersey, Mass., RI, Fla. and less numbers in other places. I also find that due to the strength of the vast majority of Dominican women, the families are strong and my Dominican students in NYC have ususally the more motivated and easy to work with even though they are often times living in bad to fairly bad neighborhoods.

 

[GringoCArlos]

Here's a report on Dominican demographics in the US by the Migration Policy Institute and sponsored by Aerodam dated 2004. It looks like about 68% of Dominicans in the US live in the NYC/NJ area, but the report has a lot more data, if you want to read it.

Later in the report it also has colored graphs showing the particular concentrations of Domnican population in different areas of both the US and various cities.

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/pubs/MPI_Report_Dominican_Pop_US.pdf

 

[Vacara]

Thanks Vacara for saying what I can't couse my poor Englishand and let me write something else; Dominican Yorker ouns the 80 % of all the nice houses you see in the middle and high class naighborhoods in the DR.

JJ

Anytime Bachata, how is NC treating you?.

 

[Vacara]

you are right. A good example was a guy in Washington high named Liberato who used to own three supermarkets and guess what his wife and children were taking welfare. It was all good until the government knew about it and put him in jail and lost two supermarkets. He was big in the Dominican community.

I know he was deported but didn't know he lost two supermarket.

"Liberato, el que vende mas barato".

 

[mountainannie]

I would not trust this report at all.... I don't trust any report that refers to immigrants as "illegal aliens".... I do not know who this group is but my take is that they are definitely anti immigrant.

 

[Ezequiel]

The great majority of Dominican here in Georgia and in the Carolinas own their houses, because it's affordable to own a house here in South. I meet Dominicans everyday that had moved from the Northeast and the first thing they do when they get a job is to buy their house, If you drive in Gwinnett county here Georgia you will see Dominican businesses everywhere.

The Northeast is too expansive even for the native population let alone new immigrant like Dominican. Dominican are just finding out that there are other parts of the U.S.A that are more affordable and they can live a better live without relying on government help.

 

[minerva_feliz]

Not sure if report is accurate...

I would not trust this report at all.... I don't trust any report that refers to immigrants as "illegal aliens".... I do not know who this group is but my take is that they are definitely anti immigrant.

You might be right. I'm not so knowledgeable about where the organizations stand on being conservative/liberal, but I did notice that under "about us" is says:

"The Center for Immigration Studies is an independent, non-partisan, non-profit research organization founded in 1985. It is the nation's only think tank devoted exclusively to research and policy analysis of the economic, social, demographic, fiscal, and other impacts of immigration on the United States.

It is the Center's mission to expand the base of public knowledge and understanding of the need for an immigration policy that gives first concern to the broad national interest. The Center is animated by a pro-immigrant, low-immigration vision which seeks fewer immigrants but a warmer welcome for those admitted."

I glanced through the references, and they seemed legit. I don't necessarily believe the stats though, because I know how groups can tweak and warp statistics to support their beliefs, even setting up a survey's methodology so it will produce their own predicted outcome. In this case, showing such high percentages for poverty and welfare could gain sympathy for their mission of reducing the number of immigrants allowed to enter the U.S.

In fact, they even claim that: "Use of welfare for both immigrants and natives in the CPS is understated because people forget about services when answering the survey. This is particularly true for use of Medicaid and cash assistance programs, which administrative data shows is somewhat higher than the numbers found in the CPS."

I was just trying to find a report that broke things down by country. Here are the other big immigration think tanks, maybe they have some better or conflicting data about Dominicans:

Pew Hispanic Center, National Council of La Raza, FAIR, AILA, National Immigration Forum, Urban Institute, Migration Policy Institue

 

[mondongo]

I have worked 20+ years mostly with professionals with advanced degrees.

Sadly, I have not me any other Dominicans. Save, of course, for the cleaning crew.

There are Europeans, Muslim, Arabs, Africans, Asians, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, even Haitians.

But no Dominicans.

 

[Vacara]

I have worked 20+ years mostly with professionals with advanced degrees.

Sadly, I have not me any other Dominicans. Save, of course, for the cleaning crew.

There are Europeans, Muslim, Arabs, Africans, Asians, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, even Haitians.

But no Dominicans.

And what part of the janitorial services do you supervise?

 

[mondongo]

That's really cute, Vacara.

 

[bienamor]

Anni

I would not trust this report at all.... I don't trust any report that refers to immigrants as "illegal aliens".... I do not know who this group is but my take is that they are definitely anti immigrant.

your still beating your drum, they may not be anti immigrant, just anti liiegal immigrant.

You can be ok with immigrants, hell our familys were all immigrants unless your native american. Just don't sneak in, an still want all the benefits.

 

[strangerinastrangeland]

Minerva,

I do not know if this point was already made in previous posts. If so, excuse my lack of forum etiquette.

My belief is that the data omits the fact that, and this is conjecture on my part, many Dominicans are receiving Food Stamps and that factors in big time in the 63% of Dominicans receiving "public means tested programs".

IN ORDER TO RECEIVE FOOD STAMPS YOU MUST HAVE A HOUSEHOLD INCOME THAT AT LEAST PAYS YOUR SHELTER EXPENSES. IN OTHER WORDS, YOU MUST BE WORKING OR ON DISABILITY. Many Dominicans are working menial jobs that do not pay a living wage. If the concentration is in the most expensive cities like NYC where rent and utilities are so expensive, you can not afford food and thus are given FS to make up the difference.

Compounding the problem is the racism encountered that deliberately steer Dominicans into specific, low-paying jobs like home health aide or security guard. Many Domincans in NY, foreign or native born, encounter tremendous systematic racism from both the black AND white comunities who do not allow or desire Latinos to progress. It is almost as if affirmative action opened the door for Afro-Americans and they have used it to actively keep Latinos out and so, employment options are very, very limited except in a few agencies like the Dept of Ed for example.

The powers that be do not break it down by type of social welfare. Probably for the reasons which you state, but I would bet that the percentage is so high because there is a disproportianate amount of EMPLOYED, MINIMUM WAGE Dominican workers receiving Food Stamps.

 

[Vacara]

Minerva,

I do not know if this point was already made in previous posts. If so, excuse my lack of forum etiquette.

My belief is that the data omits the fact that, and this is conjecture on my part, many Dominicans are receiving Food Stamps and that factors in big time in the 63% of Dominicans receiving "public means tested programs".

IN ORDER TO RECEIVE FOOD STAMPS YOU MUST HAVE A HOUSEHOLD INCOME THAT AT LEAST PAYS YOUR SHELTER EXPENSES. IN OTHER WORDS, YOU MUST BE WORKING OR ON DISABILITY. Many Dominicans are working menial jobs that do not pay a living wage. If the concentration is in the most expensive cities like NYC where rent and utilities are so expensive, you can not afford food and thus are given FS to make up the difference.

Compounding the problem is the racism encountered that deliberately steer Dominicans into specific, low-paying jobs like home health aide or security guard. Many Domincans in NY, foreign or native born, encounter tremendous systematic racism from both the black AND white comunities who do not allow or desire Latinos to progress. It is almost as if affirmative action opened the door for Afro-Americans and they have used it to actively keep Latinos out and so, employment options are very, very limited except in a few agencies like the Dept of Ed for example.

The powers that be do not break it down by type of social welfare. Probably for the reasons which you state, but I would bet that the percentage is so high because there is a disproportianate amount of EMPLOYED, MINIMUM WAGE Dominican workers receiving Food Stamps.

That's why I asked Minerva if she could break down her data into specific categories as to know what % receive fs, welfare, housing, etc. Minerva said she couldn't provide it, if the data is biased as Annie suggested that might be the reason.

Let's remember, people are encourage to get food stamps, on tv, radio, newspapers and magazines there're plenty of ads asking people to apply.

 

[strangerinastrangeland]

Coincidentally, I just got back from reading the posts and was about to write that you had already argued the point. Sorry. It's very late. I also wanted to make the point that although there was definitely a subculture of greed and abuse many years ago, that has no longer been the case for many, many years. The whole former system had been dismantled many years ago.

Thirdly, in the case of the Jamaican stats, it is interesting how certain ethnic groups fare better socially and economically if they can "pass" for either white or black in this polarized society. Even in my family, the cousins who can pass for high yellow African American or Anglo fare much, much better in terms of job opportunities than someone like myself who looks typically Latina from a mile away (tan complexion, wavy/curly black hair), although I have more education.

BTW, Vacara, love, love, love your posts. Very funny.