Matilda and I both stated that blacks have higher bone densities which in fact your friend the doctor confirmed. What's the problem then if you are repeating what we claimed? sheeshhh.
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Girls Drowned in Hotel Pools
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Matilda and I both stated that blacks have higher bone densities which in fact your friend the doctor confirmed. What's the problem then if you are repeating what we claimed? sheeshhh.
Here's something scientific for you. Please reference the study performed by Fred Lanoue.
Drownproofing
Amazon.com: Drownproofing: A New Technique for Water Safety (9780132207805): Fred Lauoue: Books
By the way speaking for myself I never said "blacks can't swim" merely recognized they have higher density(like myself) and it would make it harder to swim because of less buoyancy which is a scientific fact at least for beginners until they learn how to compensate.
If I had a nickel every time you assumed something about my post anymore...
ON AVERAGE
Men have higher bone density than women.
blacks have higher bone density than Caucasian (not much higher as stated by the pseudo-scientists)
Asians tend to have lower bone density than Caucasian
Using your guys " logic" :
Men are most likely to drown.
Asians are the best swimmers.
And, Chip, with high density bone, is an undercover BLACK man, lol. What was the term ? passing, i think, jajajaja
Men have higher bone density than women.
blacks have higher bone density than Caucasian (not much higher as stated by the pseudo-scientists)
Asians tend to have lower bone density than Caucasian
Using your guys " logic"
:Men are most likely to drown.
Asians are the best swimmers.
And, Chip, with high density bone, is an undercover BLACK man, lol. What was the term ? passing, i think, jajajaja
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ON AVERAGE
Men have higher bone density than women.
blacks have higher bone density than Caucasian (not much higher as stated by the pseudo-scientists)
Asians tend to have lower bone density than Caucasian
Using your guys " logic"
Men are most likely to drown.
Asians are the best swimmers as they float easily.
Sorry, just stupid !
Buoyancy is a scientific fact, Furthermore, I stated I had low buoyancy like most blacks(not all) and even made it to be a lifeguard and stated we had many blacks at the pools where I worked that swam well because there are ways to compensate. You nor Shalena seem to care but would rather just lump me in with the blacks can't swim crowd.
I haven't once quoted your name Chip.
Chip, I know Buoyancy, thank you, I am an Engineer, just like you (Chemical). My point is that it may not be as relevant in swimming skills as you think.
I don't feel like I am compensating anything as I was taught the same way in group-class as a kid...But who knows, may be I am compensating without even knowing........I am better swimmer than I thought
Again, I state per ORTHOPEDIC SURGEON (8 years studying bones, 17 years in full-time practice in Orthopedics and Ortho/Trauma Surgery) bone density has no bearing on any person's ability or lack thereof, to swim. So even if you did not say outright that "blacks can't swim" you both alluded to, if not stated outright....
-it is harder for blacks to learn to swim, because of their bone density
-blacks can't swim as well as whites, because of their bone density
-a black person will drown more quickly than a white person, because of their bone density
And I, being the person that I am, who does nor believe everything I hear, found out (as I had thought) that this is not medically true.
SHALENA
-it is harder for blacks to learn to swim, because of their bone density
-blacks can't swim as well as whites, because of their bone density
-a black person will drown more quickly than a white person, because of their bone density
And I, being the person that I am, who does nor believe everything I hear, found out (as I had thought) that this is not medically true.
SHALENA
I haven't once quoted your name Chip.
Chip, I know Buoyancy, thank you, I am an Engineer, just like you (Chemical). My point is that it may not be as relevant in swimming skills as you think.
I don't feel like I am compensating anything as I was taught the same way in group-class as a kid...But who knows, may be I am compensating without even knowing........I am better swimmer than I thought
Well I can tell you haven't read any of my posts because I and the link I posted said that buoyancy is an issue but can be compensated for, oh well.
My comments were based on years of teaching people to dive and swim, and I noticed that when diving that I had to give far less weights to black people. Then when I was teaching Dominican and Haitian kids to swim in my pool it was the same - they would sink whereas I would float. If you google "black people can't swim" you find a whole variety of information which concludes that more black kids drown or can't swim but they say it is because they weren't given the chance or the opportunity, or it is concluded that:
Matt Bridge, Senior Lecturer in Coaching & Sports Science, University of Birmingham
Expert on human movement and human physiology.
In terms of buoyancy there are some differences and there is evidence to suggest that black men and women are less buoyant than white men and women.
Differences in bone mineral density (weight of bones)
Take average black man and average white man and you’re looking at 300grams difference in terms of skeletal mass.
But there are people in both groups that break the rule, you can get very buoyant black men and very heavy white men.
But generally black people are less buoyant than white people.
Now buoyancy isn't everything but can lead to a fear of water, and being buoyant certainly helps if you are drowning or in difficulties.
I had no idea that a black person had won an Ollympic medal in swimming as I have been in the DR for 10 years without watching TV, so apologies for that. But I will still maintain that a lack of buoyancy will inhibit ability to swim, will lead to fear of the water and will lead to a higher likelihood of drowning.
Matilda
Matt Bridge, Senior Lecturer in Coaching & Sports Science, University of Birmingham
Expert on human movement and human physiology.
In terms of buoyancy there are some differences and there is evidence to suggest that black men and women are less buoyant than white men and women.
Differences in bone mineral density (weight of bones)
Take average black man and average white man and you’re looking at 300grams difference in terms of skeletal mass.
But there are people in both groups that break the rule, you can get very buoyant black men and very heavy white men.
But generally black people are less buoyant than white people.
Now buoyancy isn't everything but can lead to a fear of water, and being buoyant certainly helps if you are drowning or in difficulties.
I had no idea that a black person had won an Ollympic medal in swimming as I have been in the DR for 10 years without watching TV, so apologies for that. But I will still maintain that a lack of buoyancy will inhibit ability to swim, will lead to fear of the water and will lead to a higher likelihood of drowning.
Matilda
I never said I had high bone density but rather high density due to low body fat. Another misquote.
Apparently no one has bothered to notice how cock diesel Olympic swimmers are. Wonderful and graceful athletes all, and not an ounce of fat on their bodies, which would make floating very difficult since low body fat is more of a hindrance than low bone density. I can only assume the bone density of elite level swimmers must rank at the top of the bell curve seeing as their training is so grueling, but I'm not sure studies on this even exist.
Buoyancy, the ability to float, can be taught to anyone. Bone density has nothing to do with it. If an instructor can't teach someone to float, which is an essential survival skill if one goes anywhere near water, what's the excuse? "Well, I can't teach these black people to float-their bones are too dense".
The most important aspects of buoyancy is control of one's breathing and remaining calm in the water. Many times people drown because they find themselves in a bad spot and panic. Once you panic, you can be the best trained swimmer in the world, your nerves will get the better of you, you will lose control and that's it.
There are techniques to teach people how to acclimatize themselves to potentially perilous situations in the water. Techniques that EVERYONE can learn if taught properly. Unless you're black and your swimming instructor happens to be Al Campanis, that is (the bit about blacks and swimming comes right at the end of the clip)-
<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O4XUbENGaiY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Buoyancy, the ability to float, can be taught to anyone. Bone density has nothing to do with it. If an instructor can't teach someone to float, which is an essential survival skill if one goes anywhere near water, what's the excuse? "Well, I can't teach these black people to float-their bones are too dense".
The most important aspects of buoyancy is control of one's breathing and remaining calm in the water. Many times people drown because they find themselves in a bad spot and panic. Once you panic, you can be the best trained swimmer in the world, your nerves will get the better of you, you will lose control and that's it.
There are techniques to teach people how to acclimatize themselves to potentially perilous situations in the water. Techniques that EVERYONE can learn if taught properly. Unless you're black and your swimming instructor happens to be Al Campanis, that is (the bit about blacks and swimming comes right at the end of the clip)-
<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O4XUbENGaiY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Berzin
OVERALL density does have something to do with buoyancy which can be compensated for(as I have noted) and bone density could be a contributing factor, in my case it is not but was due to my low body fat. However, for novice swimmers with low buoyancy this could be problematic if they don't learn properly. I have already stated this.
OVERALL density does have something to do with buoyancy which can be compensated for(as I have noted) and bone density could be a contributing factor, in my case it is not but was due to my low body fat. However, for novice swimmers with low buoyancy this could be problematic if they don't learn properly. I have already stated this.
Sorry not junk science, just experience. How many people have you taught to dive and swim. Me, hundreds.
Matilda
Way far from the original topic, but, submit proof please...physiologically speaking of course. End that story, Goebbels.
One guy says bone density prevents from swimming and the other one says lung capacity affects bouyancy. So what is? the mass(which is how you measure density) of the bones or the capacity(volume) of your lungs?
Well, ok, all things being equal, greater bone density should wouldnt matter to people drowning in the ocean, you know with the salt concentration of the sea water being greater than that of your body making you "bouyant". And therefore unable to sink to the bottom. That is science, isnt it?
Now lets address the issue with the Olympic medals which is spurious if anything ever was. First and last of all, to be in the Olympics you must qualify, which means by the time you get to the proving grounds you are actually skilled as a professional athlete. If you live in a neighborhood deficient of an Olympic size pools to train(and coaches) in you most likely will NOT become a world class athlete with respect to swimming. This is very same reason why there is an overcapacity of Black men playing basketball/football and NOT swimming. Much cheaper and less space and overhead is needed to build a basketball court than a swimming pool/ice hockey rink. If all things were equal you would see world class competitors in every sport.
We now return back to your insane propaganda machine.
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That wasnt what happened. What happened was that a thread that was going to express remorse for 2 girls losing their lives turned into some weird Phrenology forum where the forehead slopes and elbow contours were how we could determine people were good swimmers. The very same nutjobs were expounding on facts that were facts because they used a 5 syllable word behind the word fact and deluded themselves into believing that we thought that was really a fact.
And we are still sad that these girls had to die from lack of supervision.
I will try and explain. Buoyancy depends on three things. Bones, muscles and fat. High bone density will make you sink. Science shows that:
Take average black man and average white man and you’re looking at 300grams difference in terms of skeletal mass.
The old and the young have low bone density. Fat floats. The fatter a person the more weight you need to give them to get them to sink. Muscle is equal. Take a fat white woman or man and you will need 7 to 10 pounds to get them to sink whilst diving. I am white, muscular and thin and I need 2lbs to dive. My husband is black, muscular and low body fat and he needs no weight to dive. When you breath in and hold air in your lungs it will compensate for your physical buoyancy, so you can float. However if you are swimming you need to breathe out sometimes and so if you have negative buoyancy then when you breathe out you will sink.
You are right that sea water being salt will mean you are more buoyant. But depending on your degree of bone mass and muscle and body fat, that might not be enough to make you float. My husband (Dominican) will still sink like a stone in the ocean.
By the way. please don't call me Goebbels. I find that very very offensive. I was only trying to explain why I think that so many people and children drown here, based on my experience as a diving and swimming instructor for many years. But if the responses which have happened here are now what will happen then maybe I won't bother any more.
Matilda
Bout time someone with common sense chimed in. They never learned as kids. As the reason is because they were told old folk tales about being scared of water. It is the same thing in Barbados, Bahamas, Trinidad, etc. All these people live on islands but they have all of these antiquated superstitions about water that they get indoctrinated with when they are young. So they never take the initiative on learning how to swim.
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