Haiti has no chance of improvement

[bob saunders]

Well this post is not so optimistic, it reminds Samuel Johnson's quote about those who founded and populated the USA at the beginning of the colonial era:



We wish well to Haiti and any third world countries who pass through tough moments, the sun will rise one day for all of them GOD willing. Greedy Western imperialism has unfortunately created Haiti...And has worked skillfully/scientifically during centuries to keep its head very low under the water. When you add to the equation all the corrupts leaders (supported by that same Western imperialism) who led Haiti, it will take unfortunately generations to find the right "tuning" to solve Haiti's issues.

I repectfully disagree with you. Although there has been some international interference most of Haiti's problems are caused by Haitians and need to be solved by Haitians. The same interference on a grander scale has happened to the DR yet they have managed to develop a somewhat functional democracy.

 

[USA DOC]

....The immigration situation with illegal Haitians, in the DR will become a flood of haitians....when their most pressing problem ...lack of fresh water, will become lethal in a few short years...lack of trees means lack of rainfall, and you cannot grow trees in a few years...the remaining fresh water supply in Haiti is very small and polluted,when that runs out Haiti's problem will become the Dr's problem as the Haitians have no where else to go.......Doc.......

 

[chico bill]

....The immigration situation with illegal Haitians, in the DR will become a flood of haitians....when their most pressing problem ...lack of fresh water, will become lethal in a few short years...lack of trees means lack of rainfall, and you cannot grow trees in a few years...the remaining fresh water supply in Haiti is very small and polluted,when that runs out Haiti's problem will become the Dr's problem as the Haitians have no where else to go.......Doc.......

Is that biosphere large enough for rainfall to be affected by the amount of trees ?

 

[ctrob]

Haitis savior can bring only come from within.   Nothing else will work.

 

[Derfish]

Is that biosphere large enough for rainfall to be affected by the amount of trees ?

I am not an expert, but do believe so. Haiti is a lot bigger than the Everglades and they say there are three distinct weather zones in that area of Florida. Yes I know it is a totally different thing, but I do think that Haiti is large enuff to have to worry about such things.

 

[william webster]

the lack of trees is what causes the terrible erosion...and flooding

river rise too fast... sanitation is nonexistent... disease follows

they need the trees for cooking... not enough left.

an endless cycle of hopelessness

read up on it.

Travesty in Haiti is one book

 

[cobraboy]

Travesty in Haiti is one book

Excellent, excellent read...

 

[ExDR]

Frank, Corruption will never end. It's part of the DNA in Haiti.

Haiti needs another dictator like "Papa Doc." Otherwise, the so called democracy will continue to highjack the country with blatant corruption. Cut the hands of thieves, execute rapist and murderers. Publicly lash those with minor offenses. Only way to get people to stop doing bad is to have harsh enough consequences for their actions. Hell, what they need is Sharia law, lol.

 

[cobraboy]

Haiti needs another dictator like "Papa Doc." Otherwise, the so called democracy will continue to highjack the country with blatant corruption. Cut the hands of thieves, execute rapist and murderers. Publicly lash those with minor offenses. Only way to get people to stop doing bad is to have harsh enough consequences for their actions. Hell, what they need is Sharia law, lol.

I get asked on every tour, after a guest witnesses some bizarre act or traffic weirdness, "Is that legal?"

My rhetorical response: "If a law is not enforced is it a law?"

 

[drstock]

Haiti needs another dictator like "Papa Doc." Otherwise, the so called democracy will continue to highjack the country with blatant corruption. Cut the hands of thieves, execute rapist and murderers. Publicly lash those with minor offenses. Only way to get people to stop doing bad is to have harsh enough consequences for their actions. Hell, what they need is Sharia law, lol.

While you're at it, you might as well import the Taliban to run the place. They like middle-age style solutions.

 

[william webster]

for more uplifting thinking---
=========================================================
William Larimer Mellon Jr.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
William Larimer "Larry" Mellon Jr. (1910–1989) was an American philanthropist and physician.

He was born in Pittsburgh June 26, 1910, the son of financier William Larimer Mellon Sr. and a grandnephew of U.S. Treasury Secretary Andrew W. Mellon. His family fortune derived from Gulf Oil, Westinghouse, BNY Mellon, Koppers, Alcoa and others.[citation needed]

He was married twice,[1] the second time to ranch hand and single mother Gwen Grant.[citation needed] He attended Princeton University for one year, worked for his family's Mellon Financial and served in the OSS during World War II.

He owned and operated a cattle ranch in Arizona until, at the age of 37, he read about, and then studied, Albert Schweitzer's medical missionary work in Gabon, and resolved with Schweitzer's encouragement and guidance to create a similar third-world hospital. He and Gwen Grant Mellon enrolled at Tulane University; he received his medical degree in 1954 at the age of 44, and she became qualified as a medical-laboratory technician.[1]

In 1956, they opened the Hôpital Albert Schweitzer Haiti in Deschapelles, Haiti.[1]

He died in Deschapelles at the age of 79 with cancer and Parkinson's disease, on August 3, 1989.[1]
===========================================================
and this

http://people.com/archive/a-mellon-...rtune-to-help-the-poor-of-haiti-vol-13-no-17/

what I didn't see here is what I know for fact.

Yes, he was inspired by an Einstein article...
so much so that he wrote to him at the Einstein Africa hospital....

lo & behold, Einstein wrote back..and the friendship started.

Mellon abandoned the cattle life that displeased him... didn't satisfy him
went back to school

Upon graduation , he asked Einstein - his friend by now..

What would you do?
Where would you go?

Einstein answered - Haiti

There you have it... the true genesis of an admirable story, life, & achievement

Still going strong that hospital and I have not a read a bad word about it.
The Mellon family still heads the oversight board and visits regularly... still supporting

All very, very quietly

They are buried on the property

 

[Superpana]

     I find interesting that no one has brought up the fact that Haiti is the only country that has had to payback reparations to its former enslavers and there was a collective joining of forces including the U.S. to not recognize Haiti as an independent nation until the aforementioned conditions were met. D.R. and Haiti did not start off on the same foot economically, they did not have the same level of ill will and economic suffocation which had been imposed on Haiti, perhaps as punishment for daring to consider freedom as their human right. If we are going to criticize the Haitian people as a whole, we must did a bit deeper at what got them to this point, and a large part was a collective effort to punish them.

 

[the gorgon]

     I find interesting that no one has brought up the fact that Haiti is the only country that has had to payback reparations to its former enslavers and there was a collective joining of forces including the U.S. to not recognize Haiti as an independent nation until the aforementioned conditions were met. D.R. and Haiti did not start off on the same foot economically, they did not have the same level of ill will and economic suffocation which had been imposed on Haiti, perhaps as punishment for daring to consider freedom as their human right. If we are going to criticize the Haitian people as a whole, we must did a bit deeper at what got them to this point, and a large part was a collective effort to punish them.

which is exactly why i recommended that members read books like How Europe Underdeveloped Africa..Haiti had a lot of outside help in becoming the basket case it currently is.

 

[bob saunders]

     I find interesting that no one has brought up the fact that Haiti is the only country that has had to payback reparations to its former enslavers and there was a collective joining of forces including the U.S. to not recognize Haiti as an independent nation until the aforementioned conditions were met. D.R. and Haiti did not start off on the same foot economically, they did not have the same level of ill will and economic suffocation which had been imposed on Haiti, perhaps as punishment for daring to consider freedom as their human right. If we are going to criticize the Haitian people as a whole, we must did a bit deeper at what got them to this point, and a large part was a collective effort to punish them.

One of the reasons Haiti invaded the DR was to rob it blind to pay those reparations, so yes you are correct the DR started farther down the hole economically than Haiti. Crippled by an international embargo enforced by French warships, Haiti agreed in 1825 to pay France an “independence debt” of 150m gold francs to compensate colonists for lost land and slaves. Although the indemnity was later reduced to 90m gold coins, the debt crippled the Caribbean nation, which did not finish paying it off to French and American banks until 1947. So in the 70 YEARS since that debt was paid what have they accomplished?

 

[USA DOC]

Is that biosphere large enough for rainfall to be affected by the amount of trees ?

Bill yes it is............

 

[PICHARDO]

As someone who is only a casual observer of the situation in Haiti, I found out that we have new neighbors that are a married couple who spent over five years trying to help in Haiti as volunteers. The man has spent time in various locations such as Afghanistan before Haiti and is no stranger to countries facing severe hardships. In Haiti they saw challenges of no reliable supply of water, insufficient food supply, no basic necessities (they made regular trips to Pricesmart in Santiago for toilet paper and toothpaste) , open sewers in the streets. The woman dared not drive alone because it was so dangerous. She got cholera and almost died and also contracted some parasite that caused her to lose her hair in clumps that was cured by a trip to the US.

After hearing the above and a lot more about Haiti, I asked a blunt question. Is there a chance for Haiti to recover?

There answer was an emphatic no. There is no amount of NGO/Clinton Foundation/Do-gooder donations of time and money that will get Haiti into a situation where it is a viable state. No chance at all. Zero. As in not ever happening. It is a perpetual failed state.

They said the only way things could improve, and this solution is totally untenable, is that if everyone that was currently there were to be replaced with people that have a common goal to unite instead of just survive day by day. They saw first hand how impossible this will be in a country where there are not even passable roads from north to south and east to west.

This explains why there are so many Haitians in the DR in a way that I suspected was true myself. They really have zero hope in Haiti and never will.

There’s no solution for Haiti because Haitians (the people) simply don’t care for one.
Nobody is willing to sacrifice a single drop of blood to change the country, because they are busy just surviving.
Haitians say many things about how much they want to see Haiti improve and become a viable nation, but not a single person is doing anything towards that end.

The only thing that can change Haiti, it’s if a very strongman takes power and forces change at martial law pace.
Say what you will about the Duvalier Era, but the capital was clean all over the place. There was poverty, but also dignity in the poor masses. Nobody dared take a **** on the streets, else they lost their rear and lives.

Destructive protests were quickly put out to pasture. Today, no businessman wants to risk see their investments go up in flames or looted during the next protest march.

They need a military discipline for the next twenty years in order to change minds and attitudes.

Clear the streets of vendors and enforce indoors retailing only, no matter the size.

Prohibit carts and mules within city limits and on all major roads or avenues.

There’s so much that can be done, but strictly enforced.

Then maybe, just maybe, it’s diaspora would come back and invest billions into its economy.
They will then have a country they can consider coming back to live and make their dreams come true there.

Nobody wants to go back to a sh@thole, once they lived in some normal place.
That’s the hard naked truth.

 

[USA DOC]

the lack of trees is what causes the terrible erosion...and flooding

river rise too fast... sanitation is nonexistent... disease follows

they need the trees for cooking... not enough left.

an endless cycle of hopelessness

read up on it.

Travesty in Haiti is one book

....WW you are so right...and the problem is the trees....takes years to fix, if they stop cutting them today......

 

[Superpana]

One of the reasons Haiti invaded the DR was to rob it blind to pay those reparations, so yes you are correct the DR started farther down the hole economically than Haiti. Crippled by an international embargo enforced by French warships, Haiti agreed in 1825 to pay France an “independence debt” of 150m gold francs to compensate colonists for lost land and slaves. Although the indemnity was later reduced to 90m gold coins, the debt crippled the Caribbean nation, which did not finish paying it off to French and American banks until 1947. So in the 70 YEARS since that debt was paid what have they accomplished?

    Did you forget about the debts which were later procured by the Duvalier dictatorship?

 

[Russell]

....The immigration situation with illegal Haitians, in the DR will become a flood of haitians....when their most pressing problem ...lack of fresh water, will become lethal in a few short years...lack of trees means lack of rainfall, and you cannot grow trees in a few years...the remaining fresh water supply in Haiti is very small and polluted,when that runs out Haiti's problem will become the Dr's problem as the Haitians have no where else to go.......Doc.......

I have to disagree about not growing trees in a short period of time.
Flying over Haiti I noticed thousands of acres of fallow,agriculture land .

In some African countries the Starvation and high child mortality was significantly reduced by planting the ''Moringa Tree''. Not only did the tree reduce erosion but the neutrants from the tree provided essential elements to feed the people and improve the health standards at the sam etime.

This plant also provides Export opportunities for it's by-products.

And last but not least it will help with rainfall.
Moringa makes terrible charcoal!!

Moringa trees can grow as high as 30 ft in one year.... but the low bush Moringa is excellent for Moringa Tea.

I agree that Moringa is not the sure cure for what Haiti needs. But it is a start.........

But, that is only my opinion.
My company has researched Moringa for the past six years..... from India to Africa and now here in RD.

Hey , it is only my opinion; for what it is worth.

Russell

 

[Manzana]

Can you point me to any country as dysfunctional as Haiti that became "normal?"

China was considered a hopeless basket case doomed to mass starvation as late as the 1960’s. It’s history during the 20th century before that was mostly war, chaos, plague, famine and government dysfunction.

It’s prospects have improved.