Yes Ken, you figured me out! I do believe that flying a plane into a building and killing millions of people is socially acceptable. Come on, GIVE ME A BREAK!! I am simply stating that the U.S. has pulled some unspeakable crap with other countries, but it no way got the coverage and the prayers that the U.S. got. Believe me, it is an unforgivable thing that happened on September 11th, but there are millions of people dying in other parts of the world, from war, crime, starvation, that people don't give 2 beans about. That is all I am stating. It is just funny how something terrible happens in the U.S. and the news and support it receives, as it should, but places in other places in the world, they should get just as much support and not be ignored.
- Thread starter Cleef
- Start date
Hate, and the Role of a Superpower
- Status
Re: Weeeeee're Sorrrrrrrrry
I couldnt care what anyone has to say about the US response to the attacks of 9-11 and this includes Canada as well. We shouldn't have to ask permission. Notice how they were kissing our preverbial ass when Saddam went into Kuwait and the Saudis were crapping their pants. Now they are all big shots once more and we should have to listen to their drivel? I don't think so!
I will go one step further and say I wouldnt be the slightest bit perturbed if we went into Saudi Arabia and took over their oil fields to pay for what this has cost us. After that we should force them to hold elections.
Good thing I am not GWB, huh AZB? Pakistan wouldnt be far behind Saudi Arabia in my book. I am not a political person, thank Gawd!
Porfio_Rubirosa said:
I couldnt care what anyone has to say about the US response to the attacks of 9-11 and this includes Canada as well. We shouldn't have to ask permission. Notice how they were kissing our preverbial ass when Saddam went into Kuwait and the Saudis were crapping their pants. Now they are all big shots once more and we should have to listen to their drivel? I don't think so!
I will go one step further and say I wouldnt be the slightest bit perturbed if we went into Saudi Arabia and took over their oil fields to pay for what this has cost us. After that we should force them to hold elections.
Good thing I am not GWB, huh AZB? Pakistan wouldnt be far behind Saudi Arabia in my book. I am not a political person, thank Gawd!
Meredith, you said the US killed Millions of "INNOCENT" people. Your words, that are untrue and silly. Back that up with some proof. Oh you can't? Wonder why.
Please return to the subject matter!
Any post not related to the OP should be moved to a new thread. Thank you all.[B]Cleef[/B] said:
hate
It has been true throughout history that when someone else( Americans) tell you they know a better way, force this better way( 1964) on you, then proceed to control your( Dominican) policies, economy..etc. you tend to resent them. This is true despite any prosperity that you enjoy due to the American interference/influence. I think some of the resentment is American Immigration policy where the Dad or Mother often can go work in the states but the other half of the marriage union and children are forced to stay behind in the DR.
Also If you have any pysch training you should know that it is common to bite the hand that feeds you and to resent people that give charity to you. People often feel that the person giving is belittling them and then because of their poor finacial state they have no choice to accept the charity, this in turn makes them feel bad about themselves. This feeling is turned back on the giver as deepening resentment. Instead of accepting that they need to make the changes in their(DR) goverment, education system...etc to bring them prosperity they blame the most convenient target the USA.
After reading my own rambling, I'm not sure I got my point across, but having grown up with many native indians in Canada, and discussed how they feel about goverment handouts, different treatment for jobs...etc I think a simular feeling would be in young Dominicans towards the States. They see the states as a way to gain finacially, but at a price that they are not sure they want to pay in terms of lost identity. My two cents.
It has been true throughout history that when someone else( Americans) tell you they know a better way, force this better way( 1964) on you, then proceed to control your( Dominican) policies, economy..etc. you tend to resent them. This is true despite any prosperity that you enjoy due to the American interference/influence. I think some of the resentment is American Immigration policy where the Dad or Mother often can go work in the states but the other half of the marriage union and children are forced to stay behind in the DR.
Also If you have any pysch training you should know that it is common to bite the hand that feeds you and to resent people that give charity to you. People often feel that the person giving is belittling them and then because of their poor finacial state they have no choice to accept the charity, this in turn makes them feel bad about themselves. This feeling is turned back on the giver as deepening resentment. Instead of accepting that they need to make the changes in their(DR) goverment, education system...etc to bring them prosperity they blame the most convenient target the USA.
After reading my own rambling, I'm not sure I got my point across, but having grown up with many native indians in Canada, and discussed how they feel about goverment handouts, different treatment for jobs...etc I think a simular feeling would be in young Dominicans towards the States. They see the states as a way to gain finacially, but at a price that they are not sure they want to pay in terms of lost identity. My two cents.
As a Canadian, I am speechless about our idiot leader. Certain American foreign policy gives many people in many countries reason to hate the USA. For American to deny this is putting your head in the sand. However this certainlt doesn't justify the action of 9/11.
Ken,
One thing is to be proud another is to be arrogant. Americans are arrogant. I mean the statement that the US is "the best country in the world," is rediculous. What makes the US better than France, Brittain, or Japan? It's size? These countries are all different. One is better than the other at different things. Yet, I've only heard this general comments from americans.
A good example of the how americans are arrogant was view during the summer olympics in Sydney. The 4x400 relay "strip show." Remember?
The best country in world? Please!
One thing is to be proud another is to be arrogant. Americans are arrogant. I mean the statement that the US is "the best country in the world," is rediculous. What makes the US better than France, Brittain, or Japan? It's size? These countries are all different. One is better than the other at different things. Yet, I've only heard this general comments from americans.
A good example of the how americans are arrogant was view during the summer olympics in Sydney. The 4x400 relay "strip show." Remember?
The best country in world? Please!
No disrespect to the Canadians on this board,but I would say that the anti American feelings in Canada are a lot higher than posters on this board are making it out to be. All you have to do is take a look at the CBC message board. If you have never visited this site,you are in for a shock in a big way! I didn't see this much hate for the U.S. when I was travelling in the mid east.(Which by the way,was the most interesting place I have ever visited)
Mind you that this is not some underground,crackpot site.This is the CBC,as mainstream as it gets. 99% of the posts are anti U.S. Many people applauding Sep 11, saying that the U.S. deserved it and should get more of the same.Mabey 1% of the posters disagree(usually Americans on the board).
No matter what the topic is,someone manages to get in a shot at the states.If they had the internet in the 70's ,this is what the Pravda site would look like.You name the problem,the states are to blame.So check it out if you dare, just be sure you are sitting down when you do! I think that some of you Canadians that have never visited this site may be in for a shock as well.
Mind you that this is not some underground,crackpot site.This is the CBC,as mainstream as it gets. 99% of the posts are anti U.S. Many people applauding Sep 11, saying that the U.S. deserved it and should get more of the same.Mabey 1% of the posters disagree(usually Americans on the board).
No matter what the topic is,someone manages to get in a shot at the states.If they had the internet in the 70's ,this is what the Pravda site would look like.You name the problem,the states are to blame.So check it out if you dare, just be sure you are sitting down when you do! I think that some of you Canadians that have never visited this site may be in for a shock as well.
Well I surely would not call the CBC or any body who would frequent a CBC site mainstream.
Those people are as left as you can get and consequently
anti american.
The CBC , Toronto Star are just political extensions of the liberal party.
Well on second thought being left like that is mainstream in Canada.
Those people are as left as you can get and consequently
anti american.
The CBC , Toronto Star are just political extensions of the liberal party.
Well on second thought being left like that is mainstream in Canada.
eric said:
i take it this is the forum to which you are referring: cbc forums
and i take it this was your contribution--message #124 if anyone wants to sift through:
>>>>What I learned from Sept 11
As an American I learned the British are our truest friends as so many have already said on TV (despite what Canadians say). I learned that Bush going to Mexico rather than Canada for his first foreign trip was the right thing to do. I learned that While Canada wants US protection and insists on NORAD they do not want to pay the price for it. I learned why the US has to go it alone. With allies like we have who send soldiers in the wrong uniform, buy Jets for a PM, and then run out of money so they cannot help no more. Allies where we have to take them to and from where they need to go, it is inevitable, we will have to go it alone. I learned that most of Europe and Canada never learned from Hitler and will continue to make the same mistake, and our willing to let thousands before action is taken in the name of personnel safety. I learned that even today as in the past Americans can and will always pull together. I learned American resolve is a little better than in other countries. I learned that ideals, races, tragedies, and events, that would pull other nations apart only makes ours stronger. While other nations argue about being French or English and cry they have to have 2 offical languages we have not forgotten our multicultral heritages and have NO offical language. America is one Nation and I learned that one nation has the determination, grit, and will power to survive. <<<<
These were 2 responses to your post:
>>>>Eric- Last time I checked the history books Canada was in WWII before the US and suffered proportionately more losses in each of the WW's. But, yes, to this day we have no regrets about not joining Americans in the Viet Nam war! THe point some of us Canucks are making is that yes, the Americans are great freedom-fighters, but they have not yet shaken their belief that they have a monopoly on defining the 'good fight'. For that they still tend to turn inward or become unilateralist, and that's why many other countries believe America hasn't yet fully adapted its fight for freedom to a smaller world. <<<<
>>>>Sounds like you still have a lot to learn Eric. You have just proven to me that you are a true American. Bush went to Mexico fist because he hadn't yet figured out where Canada was. Why is it you think we need protection???? The reason you 'go it alone' is because not everyone agrees with you. Not everyone feels that revenge is the best solution. Just because you're the biggest, does not make your decisions right. Moments after the events of 911, President Bush said 'we will find who's responsible for these cowardly acts, and we will destroy them' Perhaps what he should have been saying is, how can we help the victims of 911 and prevent this from ever happening again. <<<<
eric, you might want to check the link i provided earlier today, you might find the article there interesting.
mob
Sorry to interrupt this, it has stranded from Cleef's post, and if there is just one more post in this thread not related to his original post I will be forced to delete it. I suggest you start a new thread in the General Stuff forum.
Thank you very much for your understanding.
Thank you very much for your understanding.
Point taken Pib,but I do have to point out to mob that that was not my post.That was another poster named Eric,I never post on the CBC board,I only read there. I did check out your earlier link,good post as always.
Now to Cleef's questions; does the U.S deserve to be a superpower? who is to say. I don't think that it is a role that the U.S. sought out,or wanted.The states did try to stay out of WW2.The world was a very different place after the war.Great Britain absorbed a lot of punishment during the war,and ran up a huge debt.They were no longer able to stop the new threat of communism alone.Right or wrong America was the only other western democracy able to step up to the plate,with the manpower and capital to fight the cold war.
Is the DR better or worse after the U.S. interventions? That was before my time.Sad to say that I had never heard of those incidents untill after I had visited the DR. It was never discussed in my education. A lot of things were not discussed. Whats the saying? The victor gets to write history. It was only after reaching adulthood,and reading a lot,and watching the history channel,that I learned these things. You have to read between the lines I guess.
I don't live in the DR, I can't speak for the people that do.I was treated very well there. It seems to be a common theme from people who visit the island.They all comment on how friendly the people are. It seemed like the people went out of thier way to accomodate people from all over the world.The DR is the most international destination I have ever visited(right up there with Amsterdam).
Now to Cleef's questions; does the U.S deserve to be a superpower? who is to say. I don't think that it is a role that the U.S. sought out,or wanted.The states did try to stay out of WW2.The world was a very different place after the war.Great Britain absorbed a lot of punishment during the war,and ran up a huge debt.They were no longer able to stop the new threat of communism alone.Right or wrong America was the only other western democracy able to step up to the plate,with the manpower and capital to fight the cold war.
Is the DR better or worse after the U.S. interventions? That was before my time.Sad to say that I had never heard of those incidents untill after I had visited the DR. It was never discussed in my education. A lot of things were not discussed. Whats the saying? The victor gets to write history. It was only after reaching adulthood,and reading a lot,and watching the history channel,that I learned these things. You have to read between the lines I guess.
I don't live in the DR, I can't speak for the people that do.I was treated very well there. It seems to be a common theme from people who visit the island.They all comment on how friendly the people are. It seemed like the people went out of thier way to accomodate people from all over the world.The DR is the most international destination I have ever visited(right up there with Amsterdam).
Snowballs
Your first paragraph is so right on.
The history books I had in High School never touched upon Vietnam, like it never happened. I'm not a history professor, but it seems that if the victor is the only one to write history then we lose the perspective of the "loser" - those who fail (which is arguably much more valuable).
The failer [sic] at least gains the knowledge of what doesn't work, and has the knowledge/inspiration to try a different approach.
The "winners" just keep rolling along like a snowball down a hill, getting too big to stop and rolling over everything in it's way. Perhaps a metaphor for the Super Power that is the U.S.
This analogy works for me.
SECOND PARAGRAPH: The people are - on the whole - extremely friendly here, less so in the city, but you could say that about any country, anywhere.
Keep in mind the basis of my viewpoint; if you're only visiting tourist spots you're likely to only run into friendly people. You're on vacation, they are their to help you (earning a living in the process) so they want you to have a good time.
Your mindset is very very different when you know that you'll be home in your creature comforts in a week or month.
eric said:
Your first paragraph is so right on.
The history books I had in High School never touched upon Vietnam, like it never happened. I'm not a history professor, but it seems that if the victor is the only one to write history then we lose the perspective of the "loser" - those who fail (which is arguably much more valuable).
The failer [sic] at least gains the knowledge of what doesn't work, and has the knowledge/inspiration to try a different approach.
The "winners" just keep rolling along like a snowball down a hill, getting too big to stop and rolling over everything in it's way. Perhaps a metaphor for the Super Power that is the U.S.
This analogy works for me.
SECOND PARAGRAPH: The people are - on the whole - extremely friendly here, less so in the city, but you could say that about any country, anywhere.
Keep in mind the basis of my viewpoint; if you're only visiting tourist spots you're likely to only run into friendly people. You're on vacation, they are their to help you (earning a living in the process) so they want you to have a good time.
Your mindset is very very different when you know that you'll be home in your creature comforts in a week or month.
My take as a citizen of a former superpower...
I think the USA has done an excellent job of franchising itself around the globe.
They have extended their reach into the lives of virtually every human being on this planet.
They must be doing something right, or this wouldn't be happening?
I have usually found the Americans I know that live overseas or travel extensively have a much broader out look on life and a better grasp of current affairs, either local or global.
They have shed that insular attitude that I often found whilst living in the USA (New York & Miami) for just over 2 years. New Yorker's being the most arrogant of all
I personally find the USA news services to be very Pro-American for obvious reasons and their coverage of world events very shallow. Then again, I was brought up on a diet of the BBC, by far the best global news service, be it online or via TV.
Is the US suited to be the World's Superpower?
I can't think of a better option, it's the only country currently with the resources capable of taking on that roll. Right now Europe is a little too fragmented, but is certainly emerging as a future superpower. As time goes on, the European union will only become stronger and it's power increase.
Where does this (Dominican) anti-US resentment come from exactly?
I haven't noticed it to be honest, then again I'm not American.
I know many Americans here and quite a few have this "stupid Dominican" attitude.
Sorry people, this is called ignorance, not stupidity.
Saying this, many I know are not capable of moving in well educated Dominican circles.
For this reason, they tend to class all Dominicans as stupid.
Maybe this is the reason some feel anti-US resentment, if you are treating
everyone around you as an idiot and regard yourself as superior, what do you expect?
Cleef, as I know you, I think your the exception rather than the rule.
You have made a big effort to become involved on a local level and
really tried to embrace the Dominican people and culture.
I can't imagine Dominicans holding any US-resentment towards you.
I think the USA has done an excellent job of franchising itself around the globe.
They have extended their reach into the lives of virtually every human being on this planet.
They must be doing something right, or this wouldn't be happening?
I have usually found the Americans I know that live overseas or travel extensively have a much broader out look on life and a better grasp of current affairs, either local or global.
They have shed that insular attitude that I often found whilst living in the USA (New York & Miami) for just over 2 years. New Yorker's being the most arrogant of all
I personally find the USA news services to be very Pro-American for obvious reasons and their coverage of world events very shallow. Then again, I was brought up on a diet of the BBC, by far the best global news service, be it online or via TV.
Is the US suited to be the World's Superpower?
I can't think of a better option, it's the only country currently with the resources capable of taking on that roll. Right now Europe is a little too fragmented, but is certainly emerging as a future superpower. As time goes on, the European union will only become stronger and it's power increase.
Where does this (Dominican) anti-US resentment come from exactly?
I haven't noticed it to be honest, then again I'm not American.
I know many Americans here and quite a few have this "stupid Dominican" attitude.
Sorry people, this is called ignorance, not stupidity.
Saying this, many I know are not capable of moving in well educated Dominican circles.
For this reason, they tend to class all Dominicans as stupid.
Maybe this is the reason some feel anti-US resentment, if you are treating
everyone around you as an idiot and regard yourself as superior, what do you expect?
Cleef, as I know you, I think your the exception rather than the rule.
You have made a big effort to become involved on a local level and
really tried to embrace the Dominican people and culture.
I can't imagine Dominicans holding any US-resentment towards you.
harold said:
harold, I always get a lot of insight into the larger world from your posts, though not what you were hoping for.
Saying "we have the best country in the world" isn't arrogance, its pride. Shouldn't the people of every country think that their's is the best? I'm surprised that you haven't heard this from other nationalities, because I have. Especially from French and Japanese.
If the people from other nations that you associate with don't think their country is the best, seems to me it means that they are without pride, not that they are humble.
Why does it bother you so much to hear Americans say their country is the best? If you are a secure person and confident of your country's greatness, you should be able to ignore it or laugh it off without getting all hot and bothered.
Last edited:
Not that I want to get into this but........
Ken has a valid point. I consider MY country the best in the world, always have and always will. Had my chance to migrate to the States many years ago but prefered to stay right where I was because to me it was a "better" place to be. That's not to say my country is not without faults. Every country has their faults just as every country had their good points. Each individual has to make their own decision as to where they want to be.
One of the faults of my country is the long, COLD winters soooooooo when it starts getting too cold for me I "migrate" to the DR which IMHO is the "best" place to be during the winter and boy oh boy does it have it's faults! But from November until April it's the best country in the world to me!!
harold also makes a good point also tho' as many Americans do not just show their pride but also their arrogance. It is one thing to be proud of your country and another to think that it is the ONLY worthwhile country in the world and to treat peoples of other countries as dirt.
Ken has a valid point. I consider MY country the best in the world, always have and always will. Had my chance to migrate to the States many years ago but prefered to stay right where I was because to me it was a "better" place to be. That's not to say my country is not without faults. Every country has their faults just as every country had their good points. Each individual has to make their own decision as to where they want to be.
One of the faults of my country is the long, COLD winters soooooooo when it starts getting too cold for me I "migrate" to the DR which IMHO is the "best" place to be during the winter and boy oh boy does it have it's faults! But from November until April it's the best country in the world to me!!
harold also makes a good point also tho' as many Americans do not just show their pride but also their arrogance. It is one thing to be proud of your country and another to think that it is the ONLY worthwhile country in the world and to treat peoples of other countries as dirt.
MommC said:
I agree, MommC. But I don't think this is only true of some Americans. What about, for example, people from Spain who laugh at the Spanish spoken in the DR and other Central and South American countries? What about people from France who laugh at the French spoken by French Canadians? What about the Japanese and Chinese that look down their noses at us Westerners? etc. Aren't these forms of arrogance?
H
Hurt
Guest
Who then?
I'm afraid I digress from the original post, but a few remarks are in order.
Some say the US may not be the 'best" Country in the World. Could you give a definition of "best" using the sum of all qualities of that country, not just who has the best health system, or best social system or more freedom, but a complete list of the important ingredients that may make a country the best. we must average all factors to achieve a title of best.
To those that ask "Is the US the best suited to be the worlds only "super-power?' the US in<b> NOT</b> the world's only super-power and if you don't think the US does a good job, ask for China to assist when you have a natural disaster, when human rights are violated or when a small country suffers the oppression of another. No, the US is not perfect in these areas, but how do you think the other option would be?
My personal opinion: The US should practice isolationism and let the rest of the world do as they please, economically, health-wise, rights etc. See where the many countries the big bad USA has helped and hindered might be today.
As for citizens of the US "learning" about Canadian history, it's leaders etc; why? Give me a reason (other than proximity) why citizens of the US need to know Canadian history anymore than they needed to learn a foreign language. Why don't US citizens spend more time learning the History of France, it had far more to do with the history of civilization than canada Italy had more influence, as did England, Greece, Turkey etc. Just what is it about Canada that makes it's history significant? I know this sounds arrogant, but enlighten me. Airplanes will keep flying. English is spoken by all pilots of the world, most developed countries learn English not because they want to, but they need to.
It is arrogance, but it is also truth, the US is the 800# Gorilla and at least for this generation you better learn to live with it, thankfully it is a benevolent Gorilla, or you can let the US crawl back inside itself and deal with the Chinese as the Policeman" of the world
Think about the fun!!!!
I'm afraid I digress from the original post, but a few remarks are in order.
Some say the US may not be the 'best" Country in the World. Could you give a definition of "best" using the sum of all qualities of that country, not just who has the best health system, or best social system or more freedom, but a complete list of the important ingredients that may make a country the best. we must average all factors to achieve a title of best.
To those that ask "Is the US the best suited to be the worlds only "super-power?' the US in<b> NOT</b> the world's only super-power and if you don't think the US does a good job, ask for China to assist when you have a natural disaster, when human rights are violated or when a small country suffers the oppression of another. No, the US is not perfect in these areas, but how do you think the other option would be?
My personal opinion: The US should practice isolationism and let the rest of the world do as they please, economically, health-wise, rights etc. See where the many countries the big bad USA has helped and hindered might be today.
As for citizens of the US "learning" about Canadian history, it's leaders etc; why? Give me a reason (other than proximity) why citizens of the US need to know Canadian history anymore than they needed to learn a foreign language. Why don't US citizens spend more time learning the History of France, it had far more to do with the history of civilization than canada Italy had more influence, as did England, Greece, Turkey etc. Just what is it about Canada that makes it's history significant? I know this sounds arrogant, but enlighten me. Airplanes will keep flying. English is spoken by all pilots of the world, most developed countries learn English not because they want to, but they need to.
It is arrogance, but it is also truth, the US is the 800# Gorilla and at least for this generation you better learn to live with it, thankfully it is a benevolent Gorilla, or you can let the US crawl back inside itself and deal with the Chinese as the Policeman" of the world
Think about the fun!!!!
Hurting Hurt
Going with your definition of best-overall quality of life- which high crime rate, drug infested city in the USA are we going to compare other countries drug infested warrens to. Sorry you win- you have more than any other country.
Do you think the USA can exist in a vacumn? The USA depends on other countries for trade, natural resources...etc. The smartest scientists come from other countries and the majority of your good athletes are transplanted Africans.
One of the reasons people learn world history in school is to not repeat past mistakes and learn about other peoples culture, a class that you obviously slept through.
News story-English is not an American language. AnD within a few years Spanish will be required learning in most States.
Without question the USA has a better human rights record than China, but tell that to most American Blacks.
THE USA IS A 800 LB GORILLA with a lot of warts, gas, and other malfuntioning body parts.
There are many goods things about the USA but you really need to get out a see the world. When you are out there in the world tell all those foreigners your from somewhere other than the States, then ask their opinion of Americans.
I actually like most Americans, but you Hurt are one Hurting Puppy and your ignorance only deserves pity.
Going with your definition of best-overall quality of life- which high crime rate, drug infested city in the USA are we going to compare other countries drug infested warrens to. Sorry you win- you have more than any other country.
Do you think the USA can exist in a vacumn? The USA depends on other countries for trade, natural resources...etc. The smartest scientists come from other countries and the majority of your good athletes are transplanted Africans.
One of the reasons people learn world history in school is to not repeat past mistakes and learn about other peoples culture, a class that you obviously slept through.
News story-English is not an American language. AnD within a few years Spanish will be required learning in most States.
Without question the USA has a better human rights record than China, but tell that to most American Blacks.
THE USA IS A 800 LB GORILLA with a lot of warts, gas, and other malfuntioning body parts.
There are many goods things about the USA but you really need to get out a see the world. When you are out there in the world tell all those foreigners your from somewhere other than the States, then ask their opinion of Americans.
I actually like most Americans, but you Hurt are one Hurting Puppy and your ignorance only deserves pity.
- Status