- Thread starter CHERYL.W
- Start date
Help me, please!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually my random thoughts are based on my knowledge. I have friends who have gone through what you are going through. Most ended in disaster but a few ended up good. I hope yours does well. The folks here are just concerned about you the way we would be about anyone we know and want to make sure you at least have an idea of what you are facing. Let me give you one example. say you live with your boyfriend a couple of years, maybe even marry him. Then you decide you want him togo to the states with you and visit your family. You husband will probably NOT get a visa unless he has some political pull. It is hard even for a married Dominian man to get a visa. Why? Stereotype, based on past expeience...many got their visas, came to the States and then "Adio, Gringa". Does everybody do it? No. But enough that it is now next to impossible to get a visa. If you luck out you might find a sympathetic ear at the consulate and get him a visa, but if you look at the past experience of others, you will realize that most Consulate employees have grown cold hearts towards Dominicans married to Americans. Is it fair? NO, but it is reality.
I do wish you well.
I do wish you well.
The land of rum and rice
Get this!
Most EVERY person on this board that has a special interest in the Dominican Republic (Dominicans excluded) does so for love or lust.
Most every one has, had, or hopes to have, a Dominican(s) for sex, romance, or marriage. Some have gone through dozens of loves, some got married 20 years ago. Some were on vacation, some were working for a church, some were actually looking for someone. Some went to get laid, some when for some sun. It doesn't matter why they went.
They make up reasons for staying or going back. The fact is, they stay or come back for the Dominicano/Dominicana. Let them deny it all they want.
Most every one has, had, or hopes to have a Dominican(s) for sex, romance, or marriage and THAT is the main draw to the Dominican Republic. READ BETWEEN THE LINES!
"I love the people". Is that subtle, or what?
Move to a foreign country for someone you only knew two weeks? You'd be VERY surprised who on this board moved to the DR just because of the EASE of meeting someone (or 2 or 3) fitting their desire.
So go. If it doesn't work, you'll get over it. It's not like you can't ever come back. I've been setting up residences (some people call this moving) every 6-12 months in different cities for 15 years. No big deal. Go. Fall in love. Fall out of love. Fall in love again. Get laid. Get married. Get divorced. Get .... (oh no, don't get that!)
My only advice: watch your money, your heart, and your health. Things are rarely as they seem in the land of rum and rice.
Get this!
Most EVERY person on this board that has a special interest in the Dominican Republic (Dominicans excluded) does so for love or lust.
Most every one has, had, or hopes to have, a Dominican(s) for sex, romance, or marriage. Some have gone through dozens of loves, some got married 20 years ago. Some were on vacation, some were working for a church, some were actually looking for someone. Some went to get laid, some when for some sun. It doesn't matter why they went.
They make up reasons for staying or going back. The fact is, they stay or come back for the Dominicano/Dominicana. Let them deny it all they want.
Most every one has, had, or hopes to have a Dominican(s) for sex, romance, or marriage and THAT is the main draw to the Dominican Republic. READ BETWEEN THE LINES!
"I love the people". Is that subtle, or what?
Move to a foreign country for someone you only knew two weeks? You'd be VERY surprised who on this board moved to the DR just because of the EASE of meeting someone (or 2 or 3) fitting their desire.
So go. If it doesn't work, you'll get over it. It's not like you can't ever come back. I've been setting up residences (some people call this moving) every 6-12 months in different cities for 15 years. No big deal. Go. Fall in love. Fall out of love. Fall in love again. Get laid. Get married. Get divorced. Get .... (oh no, don't get that!)
My only advice: watch your money, your heart, and your health. Things are rarely as they seem in the land of rum and rice.
Hey girls Cheryl and whitewave, wake up from your dreams, you 2 are in for a real surprise. Cheryl, you seem like you need the experience or a kick on the butt to learn your lesson. Can't tell you how many times I have seen innocent girls like yourselves get taken in for a ride by the sankies in DR. This dominican boyfriend of yours (chances are) is nothing more than an opportunist. He is after a better life for himself and a visa for canada.
First find out the following:
Is he educated equally as yourself?
Does he have a bank account?
How much money he makes in a month?
How many kids he already have with how many different women?
Has he ever been out of the country?
What plans does he have for the future?
Can he support you in case you are unable to find work?
How many people live in his house and how do they support themselves?
Does he call you or is it you who call him everyday?
You 2 girls should listen to the wisdom of MommC and save yourselves alot of grief in the future.
Living here is not the same as living in a resort. Get ready to deal with dominicans on daily bases. I live in santiago and I have been to the beach 3 times in 6 month. When I lived near the beach, i used to go there once in a month.
Your honeymoon will be over as soon as your wallet is empty.
Think with your mind, not with your heart.
By the way, if you met him in the resort then disregard my questions above, (he is a loser 100%).
First find out the following:
Is he educated equally as yourself?
Does he have a bank account?
How much money he makes in a month?
How many kids he already have with how many different women?
Has he ever been out of the country?
What plans does he have for the future?
Can he support you in case you are unable to find work?
How many people live in his house and how do they support themselves?
Does he call you or is it you who call him everyday?
You 2 girls should listen to the wisdom of MommC and save yourselves alot of grief in the future.
Living here is not the same as living in a resort. Get ready to deal with dominicans on daily bases. I live in santiago and I have been to the beach 3 times in 6 month. When I lived near the beach, i used to go there once in a month.
Your honeymoon will be over as soon as your wallet is empty.
Think with your mind, not with your heart.
By the way, if you met him in the resort then disregard my questions above, (he is a loser 100%).
i am not from USA or Canada, i am from the UK. and before this got to me going to live with him iasked him to come here and he said no, yes he has got money to support me and has told me he will do so.
There are 4 people that live in his house (no more than the average UK household)his mum sister brother and him and all with the exception of his sister who has just had a baby work to look after themselves.
and azb i have already lived in spain before with a man who yes broke my heart but he was british, and he took more money from me than i have ever spent on my dominican and by spent i mean on hols to go and see him. Maybe i do live in a dream world but it is doing you no harm
There are 4 people that live in his house (no more than the average UK household)his mum sister brother and him and all with the exception of his sister who has just had a baby work to look after themselves.
and azb i have already lived in spain before with a man who yes broke my heart but he was british, and he took more money from me than i have ever spent on my dominican and by spent i mean on hols to go and see him. Maybe i do live in a dream world but it is doing you no harm
AZB makes a good point!!
Very blunt....but good nonetheless......
It doesn't matter if you live in the US, Canada, England,Ireland,Italy, Germany or any of the developed countries where people have jobs and make enough money to travel on vacations to exotic places.
To the average Dominican,working in a resort making the equivalent of $150-$200 American dollars per month (if they make that!!) Anyone who can spend on a vacation more than they make in a year....MUST be rich! And just might provide a ticket (visa) out of the country. Why do you think the Domincan gov't itself makes it so difficult for their people to get passports? Why is it almost impossible now to get Vis's for Canada, the US or Britian??? We were told by the Canadian consulate here that 85% of Dominicans who enter Canada on a "visitors" visa never leave (altho' they do admit the majority of them sneak across the border into the US!)
As AZB said....we're just trying to look out for you a bit so you don't end up a piece of flotsam in the great sea of life......
We speak from what we've seen and heard over many years of living in the Dominican Republic. I live in tourist area...300 mtrs. from the beach, next door to a resort.......I SEE what you've said so far every day........how many of these "relationships" have worked out in the 12 yrs I've been here?????? ZERO!!!!!
Need to hear it again????? ZERO!!!!
Now I do know people who have come here for a year or two to live, have met someone and gotten married and are still happily married - living either here or in the country from which they came.
So read again what was said before about coming to live in the DR. Read some of the other threads on coming to live here......
Be informed first....then decide!!
Very blunt....but good nonetheless......
It doesn't matter if you live in the US, Canada, England,Ireland,Italy, Germany or any of the developed countries where people have jobs and make enough money to travel on vacations to exotic places.
To the average Dominican,working in a resort making the equivalent of $150-$200 American dollars per month (if they make that!!) Anyone who can spend on a vacation more than they make in a year....MUST be rich! And just might provide a ticket (visa) out of the country. Why do you think the Domincan gov't itself makes it so difficult for their people to get passports? Why is it almost impossible now to get Vis's for Canada, the US or Britian??? We were told by the Canadian consulate here that 85% of Dominicans who enter Canada on a "visitors" visa never leave (altho' they do admit the majority of them sneak across the border into the US!)
As AZB said....we're just trying to look out for you a bit so you don't end up a piece of flotsam in the great sea of life......
We speak from what we've seen and heard over many years of living in the Dominican Republic. I live in tourist area...300 mtrs. from the beach, next door to a resort.......I SEE what you've said so far every day........how many of these "relationships" have worked out in the 12 yrs I've been here?????? ZERO!!!!!
Need to hear it again????? ZERO!!!!
Now I do know people who have come here for a year or two to live, have met someone and gotten married and are still happily married - living either here or in the country from which they came.
So read again what was said before about coming to live in the DR. Read some of the other threads on coming to live here......
Be informed first....then decide!!
WOW
Well, what can I say. No need for a wake up call on my end because I have been there and done that (moving somewhere for a guy or not moving somewhere for a guy). I am also not a teenager. I am moving to the DR based on a wonderful experience I had in a couple of beautiful little towns (Sosua/Cabarete) (NOT IN A RESORT). I was also not staying in a hotel, but in my family's condo.
As for the fella I met, well, I was warned tenfold about the DR men before I went. And I gave this man quite a lot of grief before I realized he was on the up and up. He is studying to be a lawyer in POP, however, works at a nice restaurant in Sosua to pay for school. He owns his own apartment, which is nestled closely beside his brother's, mother's and bestfriend's family (which I think is absolutely great). A lot of people in town know him and have nothing but wonderful things to say about him. Now, with all this said, he is NOT the reason I desire to go back. Yes, we had a wonderful time, but it is the environment itself that draws me back. I am not a winter person and have always dreamed of living on the ocean and writing a novel. So, now that I have a place to stay, rent free, and can probably get a waitressing job if need be for some extra cash (because I plan on making enough to sustain me for a while there), I don't see why not.
I appreciate everyone's comments and advice, and have met some wonderful people on here (especially Jill, Trina and Christine). And love to read all of this stuff. It is interesting and has certainly made me think much harder about my decision. Cheryl, no worries. I don't know how old you are, but as someone else mentioned, just be careful and smart and we should be fine.
Cheers,
WW
Well, what can I say. No need for a wake up call on my end because I have been there and done that (moving somewhere for a guy or not moving somewhere for a guy). I am also not a teenager. I am moving to the DR based on a wonderful experience I had in a couple of beautiful little towns (Sosua/Cabarete) (NOT IN A RESORT). I was also not staying in a hotel, but in my family's condo.
As for the fella I met, well, I was warned tenfold about the DR men before I went. And I gave this man quite a lot of grief before I realized he was on the up and up. He is studying to be a lawyer in POP, however, works at a nice restaurant in Sosua to pay for school. He owns his own apartment, which is nestled closely beside his brother's, mother's and bestfriend's family (which I think is absolutely great). A lot of people in town know him and have nothing but wonderful things to say about him. Now, with all this said, he is NOT the reason I desire to go back. Yes, we had a wonderful time, but it is the environment itself that draws me back. I am not a winter person and have always dreamed of living on the ocean and writing a novel. So, now that I have a place to stay, rent free, and can probably get a waitressing job if need be for some extra cash (because I plan on making enough to sustain me for a while there), I don't see why not.
I appreciate everyone's comments and advice, and have met some wonderful people on here (especially Jill, Trina and Christine). And love to read all of this stuff. It is interesting and has certainly made me think much harder about my decision. Cheryl, no worries. I don't know how old you are, but as someone else mentioned, just be careful and smart and we should be fine.
Cheers,
WW
Whew!!
Glad to hear you're going about it the right way WW.......
Have a great time and let us know when you finish the novel!
Seems like you've had the experience that most of us "negative" sayers have been trying to get across to Cheryl.
It's "resort" romances that all of us have seen go down the tubes quickly......As most of the posts on this thread and the other I mentioned and in the archives point out, there are MANY happy endings in this country as in any other country when the "beginnings" have started out on a frim footing. Unfortunately the "resort experience" while great for a quick fling doesn't seem to produce many "lasting" relationships.
Again have a great stay in the DR. and all the best for the future!
Glad to hear you're going about it the right way WW.......
Have a great time and let us know when you finish the novel!
Seems like you've had the experience that most of us "negative" sayers have been trying to get across to Cheryl.
It's "resort" romances that all of us have seen go down the tubes quickly......As most of the posts on this thread and the other I mentioned and in the archives point out, there are MANY happy endings in this country as in any other country when the "beginnings" have started out on a frim footing. Unfortunately the "resort experience" while great for a quick fling doesn't seem to produce many "lasting" relationships.
Again have a great stay in the DR. and all the best for the future!
Cheryl/Whitewave
I say to hell with it, follow your hearts, but don't be stupid. If he starts asking for money or hinting that he needs money (and believe me, I've heard of horror stories where some will say anything), say adios. It's the experience of a lifetime. Someday, we will move back, too, but we want our children to be educated in Canada.
Good luck
I say to hell with it, follow your hearts, but don't be stupid. If he starts asking for money or hinting that he needs money (and believe me, I've heard of horror stories where some will say anything), say adios. It's the experience of a lifetime. Someday, we will move back, too, but we want our children to be educated in Canada.
Good luck
All lonely tourist women (looking for love) find it in DR. These resort guys are professionals at that. Cheryl, lets get one thing clear, you didn't find him, he found you. You are the one he has been looking for, for such a long time. A perfect woman who would do exactly what he wants her to do. Knowing him for a week, you are now making plans to move down there in a heart beat. Just imagine what you would do for him in the future. Seems like you haven't learned from your past mistakes in spain. Believe me, DR is no spain. Just live here for a few months and you will know what I am talking about.
Of course, he turned down your offer to travel to UK. He has tried getting a visa before and he knows its practically impossible for him to get a visa to anywhere, let alone UK. He couldn't get that visa even if he had sold his soul to the devil.
Let me tell you this in plain simple words.
These resort guys generally look for overweight, older divorced or younger unattractive desperate women to charm them. These women are generally starved for love. Guys in their own country would even throw crumbs at them but these resort young studs win their hearts with a night's performance. Its really simple tactics. they give you what you have been missing in your life, hot sex and empty promises.
You girls fall for them and pay in the end.
I hope I am totally wrong in your case, but I have presented you with enough food for thoughts.
Good luck
Of course, he turned down your offer to travel to UK. He has tried getting a visa before and he knows its practically impossible for him to get a visa to anywhere, let alone UK. He couldn't get that visa even if he had sold his soul to the devil.
Let me tell you this in plain simple words.
These resort guys generally look for overweight, older divorced or younger unattractive desperate women to charm them. These women are generally starved for love. Guys in their own country would even throw crumbs at them but these resort young studs win their hearts with a night's performance. Its really simple tactics. they give you what you have been missing in your life, hot sex and empty promises.
You girls fall for them and pay in the end.
I hope I am totally wrong in your case, but I have presented you with enough food for thoughts.
Good luck
HOW RUDE AZB. i am neither overweight old and divorced or i would not like to think unattractive and definatley not desperate.
i want to travel to different places and see different things and if you have such a low opinion of DR then why do you stay there and continue to see dominican women who i am sure are exactly the same.
he is coming to the uk in april to see some friends that he has met whilst they were on holiday, so i dont think that the problem is that he cant get a visa.
i understand that you may have seen these things happen and i appreciate your concern but dont understand how you can be so negative to someone who you dont know, when all i asked for was if anyone had any advice on how i could find a job, not the rest of my life
i want to travel to different places and see different things and if you have such a low opinion of DR then why do you stay there and continue to see dominican women who i am sure are exactly the same.
he is coming to the uk in april to see some friends that he has met whilst they were on holiday, so i dont think that the problem is that he cant get a visa.
i understand that you may have seen these things happen and i appreciate your concern but dont understand how you can be so negative to someone who you dont know, when all i asked for was if anyone had any advice on how i could find a job, not the rest of my life
Cheryl...
check out White Waves conversation with Jane J. It's another thread in the living section......
Some good tips as far as finding work.
You will most likely NOT get a job before you come to the DR. unless you are already working for a company that does business here and they transfer you. However you may find work once you get here.
Another reason why it is important to have enough money to sustain you until you can get "settled" in.
Run a search for "jobs" or "job opportunites" in the archives for more info......
Don't mind AZB....he can be blunt but his heart is in the right place....those of us who have lived here a while are all to familiar with how it goes in the resorts and just don't want to see nice girls get screwed around by the unscrupulous gold-diggers that seem to be in over-abundance here. Of course once you've lived here awhile yourself you'll understand.
Good Luck!
check out White Waves conversation with Jane J. It's another thread in the living section......
Some good tips as far as finding work.
You will most likely NOT get a job before you come to the DR. unless you are already working for a company that does business here and they transfer you. However you may find work once you get here.
Another reason why it is important to have enough money to sustain you until you can get "settled" in.
Run a search for "jobs" or "job opportunites" in the archives for more info......
Don't mind AZB....he can be blunt but his heart is in the right place....those of us who have lived here a while are all to familiar with how it goes in the resorts and just don't want to see nice girls get screwed around by the unscrupulous gold-diggers that seem to be in over-abundance here. Of course once you've lived here awhile yourself you'll understand.
Good Luck!
Cheryl,
I know how frustrating this must be for you, as it has been for me as well, but I honestly believe all of these posts are well intended. Don't take them too personally. Instead focus on the bigger picture of finding work connections. I cannot even tell you how many leads I have found in the past 2 weeks since I have been home, just via the net. Especially from a couple of wonderful people on this site. But as I am sure they are probably getting sick of holding newcomers hands....follow some of these leads
*Explore every DR site you can find.
*Explore every DR message board you can find and its archives.
*Hey, your guy lives there so get him to pound the pavement for you on his off time.
But, as I have come to learn and as what all the others have said, you probably will just have to wait until you are there. Just get some good hard cash under your belt and go. I emailed you, by the way. Did you get it? Feel free to write me anytime.
WW
I know how frustrating this must be for you, as it has been for me as well, but I honestly believe all of these posts are well intended. Don't take them too personally. Instead focus on the bigger picture of finding work connections. I cannot even tell you how many leads I have found in the past 2 weeks since I have been home, just via the net. Especially from a couple of wonderful people on this site. But as I am sure they are probably getting sick of holding newcomers hands....follow some of these leads
*Explore every DR site you can find.
*Explore every DR message board you can find and its archives.
*Hey, your guy lives there so get him to pound the pavement for you on his off time.
But, as I have come to learn and as what all the others have said, you probably will just have to wait until you are there. Just get some good hard cash under your belt and go. I emailed you, by the way. Did you get it? Feel free to write me anytime.
WW
Hi Cheryl.....I'm in Juan Dolio.....Playa este (east coast) actually south east coast. Do you know any language other than English?
Spanish is a must here especially if you want to find work. You don't say where you are in the UK but I'd head to the nearest bookstore or library for Spanish Language tapes.....maybe a university near you has courses also!
The local university where I live in Canada offers Spanish and Italian courses and there is a private school also for Spanish. It's a good idea to have a basic grsp of the language before you arrive.
Spanish is a must here especially if you want to find work. You don't say where you are in the UK but I'd head to the nearest bookstore or library for Spanish Language tapes.....maybe a university near you has courses also!
The local university where I live in Canada offers Spanish and Italian courses and there is a private school also for Spanish. It's a good idea to have a basic grsp of the language before you arrive.
Dear Dreamy Eyes from UK (and White Wate too but I've already told her....)
I'll bet you a peso to a pound he does not have a visa to go to England. I'll also bet you he has tried to go to Canada and the US and has been turned down...
My three rules that AZB plagerized somewhat:
1) Your education level--after sex what do you talk about??
2) Your level financially-in pesos not pounds..If you have 100 pounds in the bank, does he have 100 pesos?? a bank account? A credit Card?
3) has a visa to the USA....
If not be werry werry carfwul, as Elmer Fudd would say....
"I tink I swaw a sanki panki??"
40 years talkin' here kid...
HB
I'll bet you a peso to a pound he does not have a visa to go to England. I'll also bet you he has tried to go to Canada and the US and has been turned down...
My three rules that AZB plagerized somewhat:
1) Your education level--after sex what do you talk about??
2) Your level financially-in pesos not pounds..If you have 100 pounds in the bank, does he have 100 pesos?? a bank account? A credit Card?
3) has a visa to the USA....
If not be werry werry carfwul, as Elmer Fudd would say....
"I tink I swaw a sanki panki??"
40 years talkin' here kid...
HB
In answer to CherylC:
Yes, I have some wonderful stories about moving to the DR. Did it 10 years ago & wish I had done it a lot earlier. Wouldn't go back to the UK for all thre tea bags in Mark's & Spencer's!!!! I will be answering your e-mail shortly but in the meantime, where is your fella getting his money to put down the deposit on the apartment he says he will rent? Does he expect you to put up the deposit? This is NOT a criticism, just a sane a& sensible question you need to confirm before going firm on your decision to join him out here. Have a look at the contract he will have to get drawn up before you come - he can fax it to you!!
To Jim Hinsch.
Hey Jim, not everyone comes for SEX, Sea & Sun!!! My girl-friend & I moved here for the freedom of life we now enjoy - something we would never have got in England. I HEAR what you are saying but you are a bit TOO generalistic - some of us DO live here because we WANT to & because we ENJOY it.
Speaking of broken relationships, there are a good many break-ups of couples/families that move here as a family!!! It isn't JUST cross marriages/relationships!! YES, these have a harder time making a go of it bcause of the language/cultural diferrences, but they are not the ONLY ones that fail!!
I have certainly seen as many contented relationships with cross marriages as I have seen broken relationships of people who came to live here as a "family unit".
For WhiteWave:
If you are serious about writing a book, get in touch through my e-mail - I might have some ideas on how you could finance this a bit.
To Hillbilly:
Totally agree with your 3 points of checking validity of suitor. I would add to them by asking for a salary slip. No would be suitor earning less than RD $5,000 will be able to put an equal amount into the joint household income (which we all know would need to be RD $10,000 per month these days) & so the contributions would be uneven from the start (& get worse as the relationship progresses!!!).
Perhaps a Cedula & BIRTH Certificate check should also be undertaken!! Do you think we ought to complie a check list for the "stary eyed" of both sexes???
To those of you coming to live on the North Coast, if I can give any sane & reasonable advice from 10 years experience of living here, please do contact me. I can't assure you of getting you a job/happiness etc., but I can give you some advice from the mistakes WE have made over the years!! If I can stop YOU making 2 or 3 of them, your time typing up questions will certainly have been repaid!!
Best of luck to you all - some of us have succeeded, but then some of us had additional incomes to help us along!! - Grahame.
Yes, I have some wonderful stories about moving to the DR. Did it 10 years ago & wish I had done it a lot earlier. Wouldn't go back to the UK for all thre tea bags in Mark's & Spencer's!!!! I will be answering your e-mail shortly but in the meantime, where is your fella getting his money to put down the deposit on the apartment he says he will rent? Does he expect you to put up the deposit? This is NOT a criticism, just a sane a& sensible question you need to confirm before going firm on your decision to join him out here. Have a look at the contract he will have to get drawn up before you come - he can fax it to you!!
To Jim Hinsch.
Hey Jim, not everyone comes for SEX, Sea & Sun!!! My girl-friend & I moved here for the freedom of life we now enjoy - something we would never have got in England. I HEAR what you are saying but you are a bit TOO generalistic - some of us DO live here because we WANT to & because we ENJOY it.
Speaking of broken relationships, there are a good many break-ups of couples/families that move here as a family!!! It isn't JUST cross marriages/relationships!! YES, these have a harder time making a go of it bcause of the language/cultural diferrences, but they are not the ONLY ones that fail!!
I have certainly seen as many contented relationships with cross marriages as I have seen broken relationships of people who came to live here as a "family unit".
For WhiteWave:
If you are serious about writing a book, get in touch through my e-mail - I might have some ideas on how you could finance this a bit.
To Hillbilly:
Totally agree with your 3 points of checking validity of suitor. I would add to them by asking for a salary slip. No would be suitor earning less than RD $5,000 will be able to put an equal amount into the joint household income (which we all know would need to be RD $10,000 per month these days) & so the contributions would be uneven from the start (& get worse as the relationship progresses!!!).
Perhaps a Cedula & BIRTH Certificate check should also be undertaken!! Do you think we ought to complie a check list for the "stary eyed" of both sexes???
To those of you coming to live on the North Coast, if I can give any sane & reasonable advice from 10 years experience of living here, please do contact me. I can't assure you of getting you a job/happiness etc., but I can give you some advice from the mistakes WE have made over the years!! If I can stop YOU making 2 or 3 of them, your time typing up questions will certainly have been repaid!!
Best of luck to you all - some of us have succeeded, but then some of us had additional incomes to help us along!! - Grahame.