How to educate and bring about a change in the Dominican youth for the furture

[Rick Snyder]

Help Educate

Everyone seems to have an idea as to how to correct the education problem here in the DR but the ideas are on such a grand scale requiring large amounts of money and resources. We all seem to agree that the children are not being taught correctly but with no specific diagnoses as to exactly where the problem begins. I requested in an earlier post that those of you living here in the DR go out into the communities and campos near where you live and ask the people between the ages of 5 to 25 how many letters are in the Spanish alphabet and ask if they can recite the alphabet to you. Also, if you can, hand a dictionary to anyone in this same age group and ask them to look up a word that you know is in the approximent middle of the dictionary and notice in which part of the dictionary they begin to search.I think you will be suprised at the answers you receive. I do not claim that teaching the alphabet correctly, completely and in correct order will correct the problems in the education given in the DR, BUT, it sure would not hurt anything and it just might help. I still believe that a very important thing that can help the children here is to be taught that there are 29 letters in the alphabet and to be taught to recite the alphabet and this should start in pre-school.

Rick

 

[Forbeca]

1. First your want to change their culture by stripping them of their language "all for the better good" or in specific. I would say this, walk up and down Broadway and side streets off Broadway between 150th - 170th uptown in Washington Heights in NYC where there are 1 million dominican strong and tell me if your theory holds water with the many of English speaking Dominicans up their.

I do agree that English should be taught in the schools in DR but not as their primary language. We can barely get Americans to pick up spanish yet you want Spanish speakers to primarily speak english and in their own country.

Well said Joe.

daddy1 I'm sure your suggestions are well meaning, but hell w/ freeze over before that happens.

 

[daddy1]

Thanks! but to respond to sancocho's comments, look! don't twist my words around, I did not suggest that they should give up there cultural language in D.R., in the the U.S. many different nations learn english and that does not mean that they have given there culture away, look at Puerto Rico they made a difficult choice to become part of the U.S. many people will say they are sell-outs but I don't see it that way they made a conscious decision and looked out for there best interest, that's all now you are going to see a nation that was like the D.R. flurish and move ahead in society, and in response to your other comments about the language issue OK we should all teach Dominican children Japanese and move them to a communist nation right!! - don't be nieve dud, you know exactly what I was trying to say, I won't even go there with you! but look those Dominican thugs that live in New York city are there because they believed welfare was going to hook them up for the rest of there lives but it didn't happen like that did it, look at the over-all picture not every Dominican lives in that jungle the ones that are spread out across the states are doing very well and there living the way the big Man upstairs intended them to live, so don't come with your comic relief come and stay with the issue at hand I told everyone to read and think about my suggestion not to critizize it and then not post a solution, look our home country does not have a freaking answer to the problem, you can't grow up in that island stealing, husling, swindling, and saying your successful because you got some hook-up from your corrupt military uncle!!,, let's not play grab - *** these kids are in danger of being the next generation of Dominicans who will continue to be in the (majority) experts in Merengue, Baseball, and Bodega's yes I know my view was a radical one but what other solution has the country tried out in the last 50 years or so, that's right NOTHING, NADA, not a god damm thing!!!.. and it's going to continue an institutionalized boring dry educational curriculum that won't be worth anything when they finish, fella's a point of observation,the majority of all the Dominican's in the island want to go on a first class ticket to the U.S. (they want to live large)! we all know that will be a hard thing to do if you come here speaking spanish only, some have found ways around it and have become succesful...Good, but you can't play Russian rulet with a nation of 8 million inhabitants, the idea is to create opportunity regardless of the small sacrifices you have to make, it was an idea for the best interest of the Dominican children, they are not going to lose there culture or language over it!, we will always be from Quisqueya asta la Tambora, somethings can change, trust me the money is there, and as you can read in today's news the country just got another loan from freaking road sign's what good is a road sign if you can't read it!!!or respect it motorist in the island will fly right by them with a remy on there left hand and a presidente on the right, this is what the kids are up against so please let's find something we can agree on and let's not revel in jokes, sarcasium and so on, I deal with these kids on a frequent basis they want to know what I know, speak how I speak, and go where I've gone the goverment can't make any excuses they need to educate there country first no matter want changes you need to make See...Ya!

 

[Narcosis]

Calm Down

If you enter a debate, you must be ready to recieve opposing views.

All I can say to your posts is the following:

Do your kids a favor and enroll them back in school. Judging from your posts "home education" is not the best option for them.

 

[daddy1]

I'm cool

That's where your wrong.. my friend!! me and my wife are college grads and I'm a certified middle school teacher, and they will learn alot more with us then dishing out un-neccesary money to a school who thinks they need all that money because all of there classes are in english- I have scene these teachers in action they carry heavy accents, and that does not work for me, I also home school about 5 other children from the neighborhood for free and there parents can appreciate that! home schooling is not for everyone but it has grown about 38% in the U.S. this year, in the Dominican home school for the majority wouldn't work because you can't motivate parent's enough to step up to the task and mingle with there kids, hell I run a baseball league in the island and out of 125 kids I only see two parent's show up consistantly, but trust me my children are as sharp as nails and they among the other children are loving it ! as to your other comments, I'm a calm person at heart, but sometimes in these forums more people are interested in being a smart ***, and that get's on my nerve sometimes, but I appreciate sancocho's comments, I guest I needed to elaborate on what I was suggesting, also thank you for your concern for my children, but trust me I have been working with children for the last 15 yrs as a teacher, coach, counselor, mentor, or big brother it's what I do that's why I find living in the island so challenging, I live in Arrollo Hondo 3 although I'm in Orlando Florida now trying to raise funds for a youth flag - football league which I'll be running it's all good one child at a time nar...see ya.

 

[sancochojoe]

Thanks! but to respond to sancocho's comments, look! don't twist my words around, I did not suggest that they should give up there cultural language in D.R.,

But you said this in your previous

"I believe, and( just reason with me for a second.) that english should be taught as a first language in all of D.R. public schools, the goverment must realize that the youth that grow into adult's must see that the students in there country that excell in society are the one's who speak fluent english, No!..... english cources won't cut it, because it's optional and the kids don't take it seriously! "

Now tell me how am I twisting around what you said. How is teaching them their first language as being english not changing their culture. I'm not making a joke about anything. I'm serious. You don't have to get huffy and puffy. As you may know i'm not a proponent of Assimilating any other nation because they don't meet my requirements. But I think your approach is like a stranger trying to stop two brothers from fighting each other. They will turn on you. Your approach for one is too direct and down right insulting. And like I said before, it is a Emperialistic View.

Your comment alone about "Thugs" in NY which represents 80 percent of Dominicans in the US and who provide the majority of financial help for their families in DR you want to educate, makes me wonder if your intent for change is out of frustration or Good will. That comment alone does not show that you care for the people your interacting with.

 

[Forbeca]

That's where your wrong.. my friend!! me and my wife are college grads and I'm a certified middle school teacher, and they will learn alot more with us then dishing out un-neccesary money to a school who thinks they need all that money because all of there classes are in english- I have scene these teachers in action they carry heavy accents, and that does not work for me,


You have "scene" (your sp) these teachers in action? What's wrong with speaking with an accent? My favorite professor at University had the worst southern accent you've ever heard, but I guess in your book that is ok, 'cause is a southern accent after all :ermm:

 

[Narcosis]

Daddy1 stop while your ahead

If you are an example we should use as a benchmark, then we are in trouble.

It's:

My wife and I
their classes
seen
on the island

etc etc

 

[Chris]

middle school teacher?

daddy1, I'm confused. You homeschool? You're a college graduate? You teach? I take it you do not teach English? If you do, you need to go to remedial classes for the English language, because you cannot spell worth a damn! Forgive me - I'm not trying to fight with you - and English is a third language for me. It is just that the information that you give and the language that you use, does not uhm... jibe?.

 

[daddy1]

But you said this in your previous

"I believe, and( just reason with me for a second.) that english should be taught as a first language in all of D.R. public schools, the goverment must realize that the youth that grow into adult's must see that the students in there country that excell in society are the one's who speak fluent english, No!..... english cources won't cut it, because it's optional and the kids don't take it seriously! "

Now tell me how am I twisting around what you said. How is teaching them their first language as being english not changing their culture. I'm not making a joke about anything. I'm serious. You don't have to get huffy and puffy. As you may know i'm not a proponent of Assimilating any other nation because they don't meet my requirements. But I think your approach is like a stranger trying to stop two brothers from fighting each other. They will turn on you. Your approach for one is too direct and down right insulting. And like I said before, it is a Emperialistic View.

Your comment alone about "Thugs" in NY which represents 80 percent of Dominicans in the US and who provide the majority of financial help for their families in DR you want to educate, makes me wonder if your intent for change is out of frustration or Good will. That comment alone does not show that you care for the people your interacting with.

If you teach english as a first language it should not suggest that you are trying to change a culture I made many suggestions not just only that one in particular, I mentioned community centers, the building of gymnasiums and yes changing the school structure...I am a Dominican American born and raised out of New Jersey, I have Dominican 100% out of the island parents they showed me Dominican culture and I never abandoned it, but like many parents if you tell them I want to live there the first thing out of there mouth's is THERE IS NO EDUCACION NI COSTUMBRE over there, yes I did not understand there fustration at the time. but sometimes enough is enough, it's been carring on to long and the countries goverment does not care, sancho, look I am involved in the school system in Florida I'm fustrated because I see all the good things that are provided for children here, I see how families are raising and interacting with there children, this as a whole is missing in D.R. today, but you have to look at the child's future and look at there best (interest) and if my idea sounds (Emperialistic well..so be it)! I don't mean it that way but at least it was a step in another direction other then the one's that they are being taken today or lack there of, I don't mean to insult anyone but I'm tired of people saying that the nation doesn't produce intelligent indiviguals as a whole. that's all, I do very much care for the children of the D.R. I'm fustrated as an educator because the children over there are missing so much,due to greed, theft's, and weed!, I would like to see Dominican's rise to another level, not just in the same place repeating there parent's mistake. look at the American University Athletic programs where are our intelligent athlete's this is why I made my view as I did something drastic should take place in the countries educational program, because they do not have a clue what to do, and many are using it for profit and they flat out don't care, even with the countries economical collapse they were contemplating changing the peso to dollars like many other countries, is this Emperialistic? you see because they said if the dollar continues to rise they were going to have to make a choice for the best (interest) of the country, you see you mess with there money they make all the sacrifices in the world, but for educating there children Yah.... let's leave it the way it is no one will notice, the census for education in D.R. does not lie, neither does the C.I.A. reports do the research it horrible and embarrasing to say the least - again I apologize if you or anyone feels insulted but you being insulted isn't going to create opportunities in that island.

 

[daddy1]

Now everybody is a critic!

I'm sorry, that you guys feel like making this issue a joke, so I won't even waste my time with you, ok- so I made several spelling errors, what the hell does that have to do with this issue.

 

[sancochojoe]

If you teach english as a first language it should not suggest that you are trying to change a culture I made many suggestions not just only that one in particular, I mentioned community centers, the building of gymnasiums and yes changing the school structure...I am a Dominican American born and raised out of New Jersey, I have Dominican 100% out of the island parents they showed me Dominican culture and I never abandoned it, but like many parents if you tell them I want to live there the first thing out of there mouth's is THERE IS NO EDUCACION NI COSTUMBRE over there, yes I did not understand there fustration at the time. but sometimes enough is enough, it's been carring on to long and thcountries goverment does not care, sancho, look I am involved in the school system in Florida I'm fustrated because I see all the good things that are provided for children here, I see how families are raising and interacting with there children, this as a whole is missing in D.R. today, but you have to look at the child's future and look at there best (interest) and if my idea sounds (Emperialistic well..so be it)! I don't mean it that way but at least it was a step in another direction other then the one's that they are being taken today or lack there of, I don't mean to insult anyone but I'm tired of people saying that the nation doesn't produce intelligent indiviguals as a whole. that's all, I do very much care for the children of the D.R. I'm fustrated as an educator because the children over there are missing so much,due to greed, theft's, and weed!, I would like to see Dominican's rise to another level, not just in the same place repeating there parent's mistake. look at the American University Athletic programs where are our intelligent athlete's this is why I made my view as I did something drastic should take place in the countries educational program, because they do not have a clue what to do, and many are using it for profit and they flat out don't care, even with the countries economical collapse they were contemplating changing the peso to dollars like many other countries, is this Emperialistic? .

I don't care if your El Rey de Dominicanos. Your approach is still wrong.
Your other points can fly such as community centers, revitalizing the schools. I could add mentoring and afterschool programs. Big Brother and Big Sister Program. Pen Pal programs. The key is exposier without sacrficing who they are. If you force feed other ideas and cultures down their throat, you may see another Cuba where Americans tried to force their culture and way of life down Cuba in the 50s and then you get someone like Castro.

 

[Narcosis]

It has all to do

Re-read your first post.

You even state you were born in the US! How sad is that.

My children have never lived in the states and can write better English than you!

Your post is a good example of how education even in the states is terrible to say the least.

My children are being educated in a Dominican school in English. I know all of their teachers and they are heads and shoulders above you as educators..

 

[daddy1]

daddy1, I'm confused. You homeschool? You're a college graduate? You teach? I take it you do not teach English? If you do, you need to go to remedial classes for the English language, because you cannot spell worth a damn! Forgive me - I'm not trying to fight with you - and English is a third language for me. It is just that the information that you give and the language that you use, does not uhm... jibe?.

Chris! your entitled to your opinion, I won't stoop to your level! yes I am very bad at typing, and I do not have the time to go back and correct my errors but I'm sure you and narc... will do that for me. thanks

 

[daddy1]

Re-read your first post.

You even state you were born in the US! How sad is that.

My children have never lived in the states and can write better English than you!

Your post is a good example of how education even in the states is terrible to say the least.

My children are being educated in a Dominican school in English. I know all of their teachers and they are heads and shoulders above you as educators..

Nice try Nasco... I see where you are trying to go with this, but bill post this to be taken seriously, but with you clown's I rest my case. it seems you guys don't have solutions or real issues, look!! if you can't take the heat ( well you know the rest)

 

[XanaduRanch]

Some people here, Daddy1 just have a problem with anyone who acts for themselves, instead of waiting for someone else to help them up. Your spelling may not be sound, at least in your posts, but I find nothing offensive with your suggestions. With the caveat that some of the posts were quite long and I only skimmed them. Many very intelligent folks throughout time have been very poor spellers, and in typing messages here it happens easily.

For the record, I think Americans should be required to learn at least one other language in school. Spanish, maybe French. Although real French wouldn't help them understand the Quebecois. LOL.

What's the real objection to Dominicans learning English? It's the new 'Lingua Franca' of the world and without it anyone seeking to do business anywhere in the world is at a decided disadvantage. That's not a cultural issue. Heck, even the East Germans, Soviets, and Chinese made sure their school populations learned passable English. And they were/are no fan of American culture to be sure.

I do like the idea of boys & girls clubs, etc. I don't see any of this happening so it's sort of a moot debate as far as I am concerned. Many otherwise intelligent Dominicans here in the countryside can't properly speak Spanish, and are unable to read and write in Spanish. I am amazed at Haitians who can understand my French, but when a news article, for example is presented to them, they can not read it. At all! So while I think everyone ought to learn to be bilingual, the DR has a long way to go outside of a few enclaves at just getting the general population to be monolingual in my opinion.

Tom aka XR Last night I ordered a whole meal in French. Even the waiter was amazed - it was a Chinese restaurant!

 

[daddy1]

I don't care if your El Rey de Dominicanos. Your approach is still wrong.
Your other points can fly such as community centers, revitalizing the schools. I could add mentoring and afterschool programs. Big Brother and Big Sister Program. Pen Pal programs. The key is exposier without sacrficing who they are. If you force feed other ideas and cultures down their throat, you may see another Cuba where Americans tried to force their culture and way of life down Cuba in the 50s and then you get someone like Castro.

Yeah! but Castro has been put in-check, doing much of nothing other then suppress his own people, again opening the all english language in Dominican schools could not ever change one's culture...remember that!

 

[Forbeca]

What's the real objection to Dominicans learning English? It's the new 'Lingua Franca' of the world and without it anyone seeking to do business anywhere in the world is at a decided disadvantage.




No objection at all, but I definitely have a problem with it being taught as a first language.

 

[XanaduRanch]

No objection at all, but I definitely have a problem with it being taught as a first language.

No argument there. It's just how do you accomplish teaching a second language, here? And make people truly bilingual?

Most young people I know here do know a smattering of English words, while still mutilating Spanish. They all seem very anxious to learn serviceable English. I have started informally working with four or five here to get them started properly. I may pay their way to a starter English class in Sosua. I think English is a difficult second language for a Spanish speaker. French, and Italian being constructed in the same way means it'smostly learning new words. English has a huge vocabulary, many rule exceptions, and it is not structured like Spanish at all. I am lucky that I learned French a long time ago. It made my pick up of Spanish by ear much much easier.

The schools here need to be more readily accessible (try getting your kid in a public school here sometime ... yeah it's free ... if you don't count standing in lines for days on end for the proper stamp), and compulsory. Then they need to teach basics first. Like the alphabet. The first thing I tell anyone who wants to learn English is tolearn the alphabet. Otherwise you can't read it even if you don't understand the words and all of your words comeout sounding like Spanish.

Problem is they don't even seem to teach the Spanish alphabet here in many schools!

Tom aka XR How come wrong numbers are never busy?

 

[sancochojoe]

What's the real objection to Dominicans learning English? It's the new 'Lingua Franca' of the world and without it anyone seeking to do business anywhere in the world is at a decided disadvantage.




No objection at all, but I definitely have a problem with it being taught as a first language.

Thats what set off alarms for me to. I don't mind them learning English, but not as their first language.

The hard part will be practicing it with fluent english speakers which is hard.
They still have to go home to their community and most likely it will be spanish. Its possible, just real difficult and a lot of commitment.

It would be nice if you could have school exchange programs for 6 months to pick up a second language. People studying spanish in the states study for a couple of years and never can speak it because they have no one to conversate with on a regular basis. Then they take a 6 month trip to a spanish country and its like night and day. They can speak pretty good.

Many countries around the world use english as there second or third language and i'm talking fluent.
Many people from india speak english well but as their second language.
Most african countries speak english as their second or third language
Many Middle eastern countries speak english as their second language.
Maybe Japan and France are one of the few well educated nations that generally say screw you when it comes to learning English. But they think they are superior than everyone else.