Merengue Vs. Bachata

[Marianopolita]

Trina,

No need to apologize regarding Luis Vargas. As we say in Spanish:

"Sobre gustos no hay nada escrito". "A cada cual lo suyo".

I think Luis Vargas' bachata is tricky. I remember his big album was "Volvio el dolor" in 1997 and that's when I paid a attention to his music for the first time. Then his albums after that were mediocre at best. His last two albums I must say I think are good. His most recent production "La sangre llama" has some of the best lyrics from him that I have heard. But remember his bachata is what is called "bachata del pueblo" and I think it's a genre that throws a lot people off. Mind you Antony Santos' bachata is of that genre too but has a different flavour to it completely. But for the record my favourite singer is Raulin Rodriguez, that guy in my eyes can do know wrong and really all the other singers come after him. I must say I tend to like the those who have many albums in their repertoire which includes: Raulin, Antony S, Kiko Rodriguez, El Gringo de la bachata (he's still growing but needs more exposure). Groups like Aventura and Nueva Era still have to prove themselves to me and I don't like the fusion of English lyrics in Latin music in general so those groups will always turn me away.

PD. I forgot to add: Si tu eres una esposa fenomenal.

Yuck...that's all I can say. My husband listens to him, all the time. Sorry if you like him. He does about the same thing for me as Elvis Crespo. But he is very widely liked. Just not by me. :classic:

ETA: But do you know what a good wife I am? I can't stand his music, and I still recorded 2 Luis Vargas compilation CD's for my husband, spent hours finding good quality songs to put on these CD's. Now that's love. And I tell him how good I am to him and how lucky his is every day. :laugh:

 

[Marianopolita]

What do you think?/ Que opinan uds...

Since many have contributed insightfully to this thread started by Mariposa to keep it going I have a question that is generic in nature and anyone can answer:


We discussed why PR artists have dominated over the DR artists over the last few years or so and each person has their opinion. However, what would you say is the reason why bachata as become so popular especially over the last 3-5 years and still is expanding?

 

[Talldrink]

Is all about Marketing!

Going back to the Jlo and other fake-singers: It is all a marketing machine. Thalia has no real talent, Jennifer has NO singing abilities and her acting is non-existant, and all Britney can do is move and shake it when necessary - but all have succeeded because they can market themselves and have been able to expand on their 15 minutes of fame. If you think about it, before losing some extra pounds and having a nose job- Jennifer used to look just like any other typical latin girl out there. Thalia cannot act, she keeps getting hired on looks alone and I dont know how they keep selling records...Give me a TEAM for makeup and a myriad of others to help me look perfect 24/7, some money to record and I will sell too!

Deelt, Although I agree with most of your points, credit should be given when due. Jessica Simpson is one of the biggest airheads (or at least she plays one on TV) but she has a wonderful singing voice.

Lesly:
Bachata sells because people finally caught on to sentimientos and lyrics - After Monchy y Alexandra. Does anyone else have an opinion as to who promoted bachata the most in the past few years?

 

[Marianopolita]

Interesting point

I like your comment and I do agree that merengue can make a come back but now you got me thinking. How far back do we have to go? You mentioned Alex Bueno's release this year of "20 a?os despu?s" and yes maybe that will help remind everyone of how "great" a genre merengue used to be but I wonder if that is enough. Do all genres of merengue have to penetrate the market in order to make a resurgence? I think it is sad to see the genre lose it's respect and popularity that it used to have and the PR merengue can't do it in my opinion at least not in the long run. When I say genres of merengue I mean: "merengue t?pico", "merengue apambichao" & "merengue cl?sico". The first two I think really are specific to the DR and familiar to Dominicans and well-rounded music connoisseurs but I am not too sure that they would do well outside of the DR market. Geovanny Polanco's merengue t?pico seems to be doing well but what about artists like Agapito Pascual and El Ceguito de Nagua. They have been around much longer and their music is not popular outside the DR. So I wonder what it will take. Alex Bueno's album is good start but maybe we need more compilations of "20 a?os despu?s" from artists to ignite the comeback. Personally, I love los "pambiches" but I am not too sure I can find many who enjoy it especially those are "new" followers of merengue. I hope this makes sense.

Have faith, and never support piracy, merengue will rise again. There is a movement of artist doing what's right. Creating quality music, and giving merengue songs the quality to be worth listening to. A good example of this: Juan Luis guerra is coming up with a new CD you know this will boost merengue. Alex bueno came out with an excellent cd titled 20 a?os despues with great songs like: querida, amor divino and la radio re-made with original music but different vocals by alex. Los Toros band are still doing good with their latest Cd and there's more coming. I don't think it should bother anybody if Puerto rican musicians get grammys or lo nuestro. It probably means that they are doing more to save merengue than some dominicans are doing. Think about it for a second.

 

[Golo100]

I rest my case

Not a day goes by without bad news about merengue. Just read today in El Caribe=http://elcaribe.com.do/articulo_multimedios.aspx?id=12857&guid=EE80C23361454768A4A3D5B25668519F&Seccion=66

To put it mildly, Villalona*s own promoter does not want him do do more merengues. He wants ballads only. He feels merengue does not sell and he simply does not want to go broke. Read below the article. A similar situation face Los Rosarios, who have been without records for the same reason.

"Villalona se queda sin merengue
Latino Music quiere que grabe boleros
Por Limay Gonz?lez y Severo Rivera / El Caribe
Miercoles 26 de mayo del 2004 actualizado a las 2:27 AM
Crisis. F?lix Cabrera presidente de Latino Music, asegura que esa disquera no le har? un disco de merengue a Fernando Villalona. El productor persiste en que el Mayimbe grabe una producci?n de boleros “pero ?l no quiere e, insiste en el merengue”.

Al lado de Cabrera naci? “Mal acostumbrado”, el ?ltimo disco de Villalona, nominado a dos Grammy y al Casandra. Dos a?os despu?s el merenguero le pide la libertad a Latino Music.
“Por el contrato ?l me debe seis discos. No entiendo para qu? quiere el ‘release’ porque lo primero que mira cualquier disquero es cu?nto se invirti? en el disco anterior y cu?nto se gan?. Villalona sigue en el cat?logo”.
F?lix Cabrera est? dispuesto a grabarle un segundo ?lbum al Mayimbe “siempre y cuando sea de bolero.
Pero ?l tiene ciertos asesores que creen que saben mucho y para m? no saben nada. Si el merengue no se est? vendiendo, creo que si ?l hace un disco de bolero bien hecho puede pegar, y al menos hacer un grupo de siete u ocho m?sicos (no necesita veinte) y conseguir m?s cosas.
Lo que sucede ahora mismo es que Fernando quiere un disco de merengue y yo uno de boleros. No le voy a grabar merengue a Villalona, no es el momento”.A la hora de hablar del negocio, Cabrera habla de “una crisis cruel. Ahora mismo ning?n disquero est? en condiciones de grabarle a nadie, ll?mese como se llame. Sony perdi? el a?o pasado 360 millones de d?lares”.
Por eso el empresario, quien se encarg? de la gira que uni? hace unos meses a Juan Luis y a Gilberto Santa Rosa en Estados Unidos, no contempla invertir en el mercado local:

TW

 

[Marianopolita]

Talldrink,

I agree with you "cien por ciento" that the bachata surge is due to marketing however, the first reason that came to mind for me was the fusion of English lyrics. As you know English still is the most widely spoken "lingua franca" and money today still talks in English. Therefore, for music to sell fast and prosperously in any genre the English language plays a huge role. I will use two key examples: Aventura and Ricky Martin. Not to knock Aventura I think they have talent and they deserve recognition but because of their Eng-Span bachata they captured a very young market and perhaps one that did not listen to bachata before because I think bachata in general attracted or was associated with an older generation. But Aventura opened doors to a new and young market by using Spanglish. My other example Ricky Martin is prime as well to show how English can fast track your career. He made many albums in Spanish only prior to his "?xito" La vida loca but it was marketable in the US because it had English songs. Many who did not know Ricky M before thought that he was new but little did they know he was a nobody because his albums prior did not have English at all. So I would say English and Spanglish in the US market may have something to do with the bachata surge.

Is all about Marketing!

Going back to the Jlo and other fake-singers: It is all a marketing machine. Thalia has no real talent, Jennifer has NO singing abilities and her acting is non-existant, and all Britney can do is move and shake it when necessary - but all have succeeded because they can market themselves and have been able to expand on their 15 minutes of fame. If you think about it, before losing some extra pounds and having a nose job- Jennifer used to look just like any other typical latin girl out there. Thalia cannot act, she keeps getting hired on looks alone and I dont know how they keep selling records...Give me a TEAM for makeup and a myriad of others to help me look perfect 24/7, some money to record and I will sell too!

Deelt, Although I agree with most of your points, credit should be given when due. Jessica Simpson is one of the biggest airheads (or at least she plays one on TV) but she has a wonderful singing voice.

Lesly:
Bachata sells because people finally caught on to sentimientos and lyrics - After Monchy y Alexandra. Does anyone else have an opinion as to who promoted bachata the most in the past few years?

 

[trina]

Bachata sells because people finally caught on to sentimientos and lyrics - After Monchy y Alexandra. Does anyone else have an opinion as to who promoted bachata the most in the past few years?

Raulin Rodriguez and Antony Santos come to mind. I think Monchy y Alexandra have some great songs, but don't think they've quite gained the popularity as the others.

 

[deelt]

Yup!

Girl can sing but not better than Crisitina Aguilera. The difference is Jessica has a midwestern rump. That makes a difference since sex appeal sells.
d

Is all about Marketing!

Jessica Simpson is one of the biggest airheads (or at least she plays one on TV) but she has a wonderful singing voice.

 

[Marianopolita]

I am not sure you had a case to begin with....

En muy pocas palabras,

I never doubted merengue is on the decline. I think everyone on this thread has acknowledged that and because of the decline it's hard to promote the genre. Promoters don't feel that the market is where it used to be. We know that. But my point is maybe I am not being clear. In music any genre, merengue, bachata, salsa, latin pop whatever "marketing is key". And this article reinforces my point. Villalona's promoter does want him to record a another merengue album because he does not believe that he can promote it in a way that would generate sales that are profitable. So maybe we are saying the same thing "pero de una manera diferente".

My suggestion is that Villalona records another bachata album because he did one in year 2000 "El Mayimbe en bachata" and it's wonderful even though they are old merengues "a quien le importa con tal de que suene bien".

I hope this is clear now.

Not a day goes by without bad news about merengue. Just read today in El Caribe=http://elcaribe.com.do/articulo_multimedios.aspx?id=12857&guid=EE80C23361454768A4A3D5B25668519F&Seccion=66

To put it mildly, Villalona*s own promoter does not want him do do more merengues. He wants ballads only. He feels merengue does not sell and he simply does not want to go broke. Read below the article. A similar situation face Los Rosarios, who have been without records for the same reason.

"Villalona se queda sin merengue
Latino Music quiere que grabe boleros
Por Limay Gonz?lez y Severo Rivera / El Caribe
Miercoles 26 de mayo del 2004 actualizado a las 2:27 AM
Crisis. F?lix Cabrera presidente de Latino Music, asegura que esa disquera no le har? un disco de merengue a Fernando Villalona. El productor persiste en que el Mayimbe grabe una producci?n de boleros ?pero ?l no quiere e, insiste en el merengue?.

Al lado de Cabrera naci? ?Mal acostumbrado?, el ?ltimo disco de Villalona, nominado a dos Grammy y al Casandra. Dos a?os despu?s el merenguero le pide la libertad a Latino Music.
?Por el contrato ?l me debe seis discos. No entiendo para qu? quiere el ?release? porque lo primero que mira cualquier disquero es cu?nto se invirti? en el disco anterior y cu?nto se gan?. Villalona sigue en el cat?logo?.
F?lix Cabrera est? dispuesto a grabarle un segundo ?lbum al Mayimbe ?siempre y cuando sea de bolero.
Pero ?l tiene ciertos asesores que creen que saben mucho y para m? no saben nada. Si el merengue no se est? vendiendo, creo que si ?l hace un disco de bolero bien hecho puede pegar, y al menos hacer un grupo de siete u ocho m?sicos (no necesita veinte) y conseguir m?s cosas.
Lo que sucede ahora mismo es que Fernando quiere un disco de merengue y yo uno de boleros. No le voy a grabar merengue a Villalona, no es el momento?.A la hora de hablar del negocio, Cabrera habla de ?una crisis cruel. Ahora mismo ning?n disquero est? en condiciones de grabarle a nadie, ll?mese como se llame. Sony perdi? el a?o pasado 360 millones de d?lares?.
Por eso el empresario, quien se encarg? de la gira que uni? hace unos meses a Juan Luis y a Gilberto Santa Rosa en Estados Unidos, no contempla invertir en el mercado local:

TW

 

[deelt]

Dominicans Abroad

Poor Dominicans living abroad have made bachata music commencially viable. The music has always been promoted through underground currents. This is not about marketing this in my opinion was demand-driven. The commercial sustainability and the innovativeness (fusion with English lyrics) of the people currently making the music have now taken it to a new promotion/marketing level. But in many, many places in the US it is still an underground music. I have yet to see a commercial in this region of the US (southeastern US). It is promoted through posters in very local areas and in little, little ads in the local newspapers. This is not a huge capital investment.

D

Since many have contributed insightfully to this thread started by Mariposa to keep it going I have a question that is generic in nature and anyone can answer:


We discussed why PR artists have dominated over the DR artists over the last few years or so and each person has their opinion. However, what would you say is the reason why bachata as become so popular especially over the last 3-5 years and still is expanding?

 

[Golo100]

What about....?

Frank Reyes. When it comes to cool mature style this is the guy. He makes merengueros look like sugar cane cutters. His music is suave and pleasant to the ears.

TW

 

[mariposa]

las letras

I believe que la bachata has expanded itself to groups that are expanding themselves and that have the ability to travel abroad, no solo en DR, thus promoting the music elsewhere. In addition, bachatas usually tell a story, of a lost love, an impossible love, a single mom...merengues unfortunately have to to cuiliquitaqui, culiquitacata, which means nothing.

 

[Marianopolita]

This guy is a class A act...all the time. Anyone who knows about bachata knows about Frank Reyes (espero). He has been mentioned countless times in the thread.

I did not know that you are a fan of bachata.... are you?

Frank Reyes. When it comes to cool mature style this is the guy. He makes merengueros look like sugar cane cutters. His music is suave and pleasant to the ears.

TW

 

[trina]

This guy is a class A act...all the time. Anyone who knows about bachata knows about Frank Reyes (espero). He has been mentioned countless times in the thread.

I did not know that you are a fan of bachata.... are you?

You must've missed the bachata thread Golo posted. I wouldn't have thought Frank Reyes was on his list, though, I don't know why. Frank Reyes is definitely my current favorite, I listen to him over and over again in the car..."De Punta a Punta" is great, as well as "Eres Ajena", "Ya no te creo nada", "Maldito Orgullo", "Ya basta", "Me dejaste abandonado", "Curame", and "Orgullo de Mas"...I love him... Could he now compare in popularity with the likes of Antony Santos, Zaccarias, and Raulin?

 

[DR_DEFENDER]

My friend Mr. Golo,

I was not going to contribute to this thread (at the time being) but when I read that you stated that AVENTURA will continue to dominate I had to reply. Let's be realistic and see things the way they really are. Let's see the naked truth as they say. First of all AVENTURA can't sing and anyone who has gone to their concerts knows this and to be honest I have not gone to any of their concerts but have heard so many people complaint that it's not even funny. No one ever wants to buy any cd where the recording is live.

Secondly, the last cd (Love & Hate) came and went. I liked a few songs but the fact is that people are not as crazy as they used to be about Aventura anymore. People love listening to Bachateros such as Joe Veras, Elvis Martinez, Yoskar Sarante, Frank Reyes, Luis Vargas, or even Zacarias Ferreira. These are artists that have a romantic and mature touch in their music and their music is more appealing. Aventura had their day and they might come up again but never at the heights at which they were before (mark my words).

Anyhow, I wanted to add that "El Jeffrey" who is a merenguero is one of my favorites right now. His songs are worth listening to. The cd is not out in many places yet but a few songs are out everywhere. This guy puts merengue at the top. That is the kind of Merengue that I wished all Dominican artist would compose but what can we do but just hope.

Gotta go...oh...and before I forget...I guess I have to choose Bachata over Merengue for a lot of the obvious reasons.

1) For having a good conversation with friends and drinking.....Bachata...hands down!

2) For a nice cook-out (while driking some beer)....again, bachata gets my vote!

3) While driving....hmmm....what a surprise...Bachata gets it again!!

4) If dedicating a song to a female...Bachata!!

And last but not least:

5) Lyrics wise these days Merengue can't compete. Bachata..Bachata!!

As for dancing I like a mixture of both!!

 

[Nasra]

Which one do you prefer?

Me, of course Bachata first and then Merengue...so much popularity with Bachata....lol......

 

[Marianopolita]

Trina,

Actually I do remember that thread. I did not contribute because I don't know Golo and of course I am cautious about stepping on people's toes. But I remember he shocked a few people including you.

Well I could see that although you joined the Frank Reyes club later than most of us you have caught up. You named some terrific bachatas but I am lost where are songs like:

Nada de nada, No te olvides de mi, Dejame entrar en ti, Adolescente, Esperandote, Encarcelado (Yo me encuentro triste detras de la pared...) Amor en silencio.

You asked if he compares in popularity with Antony S, Zacarias F and Raulin...
absolutely! Actually take Zacarias out. The big five in bachata in terms of popularity, maturity and a credible "carrera musical" in mind opinion are:

Antony S, Raulin R, Joe V, Frank Reyes and Alex Bueno (although he only has 3 bachata albums they are land mark ones).

You must've missed the bachata thread Golo posted. I wouldn't have thought Frank Reyes was on his list, though, I don't know why. Frank Reyes is definitely my current favorite, I listen to him over and over again in the car..."De Punta a Punta" is great, as well as "Eres Ajena", "Ya no te creo nada", "Maldito Orgullo", "Ya basta", "Me dejaste abandonado", "Curame", and "Orgullo de Mas"...I love him... Could he now compare in popularity with the likes of Antony Santos, Zaccarias, and Raulin?

 

[trina]

Trina,

Well I could see that although you joined the Frank Reyes club later than most of us you have caught up. You named some terrific bachatas but I am lost where are songs like:

Nada de nada, No te olvides de mi, Dejame entrar en ti, Adolescente, Esperandote, Encarcelado (Yo me encuentro triste detras de la pared...) Amor en silencio.

Actually, I've been following Frank Reyes for years, about 6 to be exact. I've always loved him, but lately, can't get enough. Although I like Amor en silencio, I like Marco Antonio Solis' original best. You did mention more great songs, I was just naming a few off the top of my head. I especially love Nada de nada. From what I remember when I lived in Sosua, Frank Reyes didn't have the huge popularity he may have now, but I could be mistaken.

Back to the Flames game!

 

[Golo100]

Defender

You may be right on Aventura, but lets wait and see. It is true that only one song from the last CD became a monster hit, but they have not produced singles and videos for all the different songs. I understand theyre doing this now. Will see.

As to those who are shocked that I began to recognize bachata, I have to say that I always make amends when I see quality in things. Bachata has come a long way since my anti-bachata days and it has left merengue gasping for air.

Frank Reyes is probably the best single bachatero{not group} and the most personable. His song "Eres Ajena" is a bachata masterpiece. and one of the best. As I have mentioned before, my favorite bachata is "Barco A La Deriva" by Eugeni Castillo. This song is also the best bachata to dance to because of its fast pace and its the favorite in dance contests. I can really fly with this one. Didnt you know I am as good as Fred Astaire in bachata?

TW

 

[Talldrink]

Lesly, I would replace Alex Bueno and add Frank Reyes to the Fab Five in Bachateros (my personal taste) I love Alex, but Frank has it over him when it comes to bachata. Alex is good at everything else, still one of my favs nonetheless.

Mr. Defender, I used to HATE Aventura, I did not get on to them until their second album. I find that they have great songwriters and nice music arrangments. But as with many other great bachateros, I admit, they cannot sing too well (like I said, many other bachateros really dont have great voices at all) and some little sayings can get corny. But the lyrics, emotions, and music portrayed by Bachata make it a nice package that makes you forget all else wrong with the songs or artist.

We do have to give groups like Aventura (and others) some credit because they have done what the Greats (like Lesly would call them) were not able to do, and is to bring Bachata to a younger audience and reach a different demographic area.

I also agree with you that they wont be around for long, but the fact that they did well at one point in time and many new and younger ones discovered bachata because of them, should not be forgotten.