"PICHARDO",Please See Page 16,"Diario Libre" Today,Monday,April,2nd.

Randall Bell

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Feb 17, 2012
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Thanks for the replies everyone.

Wow. I can't believe how clueless I was... here I thought the malls were all being built with foreign investment because DR was a relatively good place to invest compared to say Caracas lol.

So it's all drug money and it won't matter if they stay empty.... interesting!
 

JMB773

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Nov 4, 2011
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One more thing I will like to add. Many people are employed indirectly because of the cartels all over the world not just in developing countries. Washing money is not a good thing or a bad thing its just how the world works. Just think for a second if the cartel never drop a dime in DR economy. The cartels owns a lot in the world things you would never ever thought like professional sport teams, WALL STREET, land mark buildings etc. We will never know exactly because the cartel works behind closed doors.
 

frank12

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Sep 6, 2011
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For a good example of how money is washed in real-estate, see the documentary "Cocaine Cowboys:" Cocaine Cowboys (2006) - IMDb

The real estate building boom in Miami was initiated by the drug cartels and their huge influx of money.

"A very stylized documentary, for a very stylized period of time, Cocaine Cowboys takes us into the world of Miami between 1970 and 1980. Using plush diversions with still images The Kid Stays in the Picture made popular, Cocaine Cowboys shows the immense changes Miami went through as it discovered the drug cocaine. Primarily interviewing three of the main names during this drug and blood soaked era, this film delves into a world filled with money, women and more importantly cocaine. As the film informs us, the Colombian Cartel made over ten billion dollars during their escapades in the Miami area, not only for themselves, but for the Americans helping them distribute.

Saying that it is the true story behind Scarface and Miami Vice, Cocaine Cowboys barely touches on these comparisons, and seems to bring the most interest from these brief allegories.Despite this small short coming, the rest of the film is entertaining and educational, especially for a native Floridian like myself. I never really knew how large this business was in Miami until I watched this true rendition of the over fantasized films it claims to be the inspiration for. Explaining allot of what the American government will look away from, due to hefty drug money profits, does put a perspective on its true intentions, be it accepting drug money, ammunition money, or any type of blood money."
 

JMB773

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Nov 4, 2011
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Thanks for the replies everyone.

Wow. I can't believe how clueless I was... here I thought the malls were all being built with foreign investment because DR was a relatively good place to invest compared to say Caracas lol.

So it's all drug money and it won't matter if they stay empty.... interesting!

No one without a shadow of doubt can tell you in 2012 what was bought with drug money and what was not, but a VERY VERY small percentage of people on the planet, and you and I will never know because we are not in that circle.

Trying to analyze the cartels business transactions is a waist of time because no one really knows who is a member or not. Thats like asking yourself why does a duck get to walk, swim, and fly.
 

Expat13

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Jun 7, 2008
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And that response fits that category :)

What else can one say when there is just no arguing the point! The signs are all around us including the DR media.

I guess it's still possible that the banana and coffee farmers are funding all this...
 
Jan 3, 2003
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I knew it was bad but I'd never guess it was that bad. So, basically we can say that generally speaking all of the recent construction wave on the high end be it these massive malls and super duper high rises are the proceeds of the drug trade. It does have standing what CC posted because if it were the natural economy creating this there would be a Dominican middle class of the type that Pick and Nails say exists.

I've stated the contrary in the RECESSION thread over and over again that there just isn't a middle class as large as Pick and Nails would lead us to believe. It's all smoke and mirrors and CC's posts adds more evidence to what I have posted. Neither is there a Dominican middle which is comparable to the American middle. In fact, it is just a reclassification of poor Dominicans as middle ones. So what passes for the middle in the DR is what would constitute the working poor in the US.

The reason it is so important to determine if there is a comparable Dominican middle to the American one is that then there is the large enough population to purchase all these goods being sold in all of these malls. They can also buy the apartments being sold. Now, if the comparable Dominican middle to the American is indeed the upper crust of Dominican society, then that population parameter is not large enough to meet the supply being put out. The top 5% by definition is always small compared to the rest. Thus, a classical over-supply and an inevitable recession leading to a depression would occur because you just don't have the numbers to make it work.

What you have in the DR is a bumping up of economic classes where the working poor are classified as middle and what is actually the middle is being classified as the upper class. It's understandable that Pick and Nails clique would portray it this way. If they were classified as what they really are, it is plainly evident that the very tiny smattering of those that can purchase these drug laundering products in the form of apts. and mall goods is insufficient to meet the supply. The upper crust in any society can never meet the demand to grow an economy.

I guess CC post is proof positive that the flim-flam sham games continue in the DR. If it is not the Dominican central bank printing pesos to meet banking shortfalls which in turn are posted as profits by the respective banks, you've got money laundering proceeds presenting a picture of a growing Dominican economy which is a total falsehood. Neither are the construction projects a reflection of a growing Dominican economy nor is there a large enough and valid middle class to meet all of the demand that these products produce.

When you put all the pieces of the puzzle together what you have is a nation where the actual and real productive forces are tiny to non-existent in that range. The actual productive forces represented by the upper classes and the real middle are very small indeed and many of these are Dominicans who have repatriated the earnings of low income jobs in the states. The gov't itself being sustained by massive amounts of loans which without would resemble the size of gov't during Trujillo's time where a balanced budget existed and therefore a gov't reflecting the limits of a balanced budget.

You have a massive pool of working poor grinding out a living through the informal economy where earning a mere 10 dollars a day is seen as a bonanza. You have millions more who without the remittance money which is usually in small lots of 100 or 200 bucks per month would be seriously hampered in their day to day subsistence living. Then you add in the millions or billions in drug money that give the appearance of a thriving economy where no such 'thriving' exists. And finally you add in the central bank and governmental shenanigans that print pesos, build governmental projects and continue to debase the currency. This being supported by the massive amount of loans and debt to boost the economy giving it the same sugar high that drug laundering creates while saddling the nation with an unsustainable and un-payable debt.

And this is what Pick and Nails give us as a growing and thriving economy where there is a large and flourishing middle class per them in which governmental projects are building the country and preparing it for the future. A nation where per Nals there is only a 4% unemployment rate, ridiculous!!!, and where per Pick all of the recent private construction projects are signs of a dynamic economy with a beat to it. Well CC's posts puts an end to all of that hogwash and smoke and mirrors.
 
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Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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I don't suppose you guys even bothered to read the Diario Libre article....

From what I read the article speaks of the the Carribbean as a whole and doesn't specifically label the DR as being exceptional, on the contrary it says the US VI have taken over as the center of drug trafficking.

Furthermore, the article references statistics taken from the National Drug Intelligence Center and according to their website the last publication was the "National Drug Threat Assessment 2011" yet there is nothing that claims there is an increase in activity in the Dominican Republic, on the contrary it's minor role in air and sea trafficking is clearly noted:

http://www.justice.gov/ndic/pubs44/44849/44849p.pdf

With regard to the Caribbean routes being "reactivated" there is an article in the Boston Globe about the possibility of routes being reactivated due to the increase pressure on the Mexican cartels but there are no press releases from the NDIC that support this claim. Furthermore, from the latest article from the NDIC regarding the Caribbean it claims that some trafficking routes have shifted from the Dr to the Virgin Islands no doubt due to the Super Tucanos:

US official: Drug traffic may return to Caribbean - Boston.com
http://www.justice.gov/ndic/dmas/PR-VI_DMA-2011(U).pdf

It appears CC's typical eagerness to cast the DR in a negative light and the author of the Diario Libre article's apparent poor translation skills is the cause for the confusion.
 

zoomzx11

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Jan 21, 2006
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Anyone who thinks that the Super Tucanos presence is enough to cause a shift in drug trafficing routes is naive in the extreme. You still fighting the drug war? Wake up, its over and you lost. Even the US drug cops admit publicly that we have lost the drug war although they dont seem to have a clue as to what to do next. What "pressure on the Mexican cartels" are you talking about? Its more like the pressure the Mexican cartels are exerting on the worlds drug interdiction forces.
They are currently using submarines. Not semi subs but the real thing. They are using drone technology. It is suspected that they have drone technology to operate the submersibles from a boat as far as 10 miles from the sub. The only big change of late is that the South Americans are no longer bringing the drugs into the US. Today they just get them into the hands of the Mexicans who are experts at bringing them across the border. The Super Tucanos are a drop in the bucket and I suspect that their real purpose was to steal money on the purchase price which is why they were bought from another corrupt country rather than from the US who would not pay off the Dominicans. They have served their purpose. Just wait a while and you will find them rusting in some back water airfield.
 
Feb 7, 2007
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Chip, not being the "transit" country does not necessarily mean not being the "investment" (read: launder) country. In other words, even if they traffic through USVI, in long term perspective, there are better "investment" opportunities in the DR than they are in USVI.

If they build a mall, highrise, etc. for 20 million, 2 years from now they may sell it to some international company for 15 million, at a loss but at significant "laundered profit". Consider 3% p.a. inflation on US$, so 20million US$ would be 21.9 (round that to 22) million US$ worth in 3 years. Selling at 15 million would be almost 70% laundered profit. 30% "loss" at laundering I guess is no that much.

I am just surprised they are not investing more in tourist areas in luxury resorts, there is constant flow of cash (read: payments from tour operators) and most cash is dealt with in Miami, Switzerland or Panama (that's where touroperators pay).
 
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suarezn

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The DR is just going through that period right now where the big profits are being made from the drug business and also people from other countries (launderers as well) are coming in and investing. Miami went through it in the 80's, Puerto Rico around the same time and a bit later and now is The DR's time.

I once watched a documentary (can't remember the name) where they followed the flow of drug money and determined that really the biggest beneficiaries in the end were very unlikely companies such as GE.

Back in the 90's the preferred method money in The DR was through the establishment of a Finance House (Financiera). Back then you could just go the nearest money transfer place in NY, Philly, etc...and send as much money as you wanted without questions. I know a family that was receiving upwards of 60,000 USD a week from their relative in Philly. Since then regulations have gotten tougher so now people have to be a little bit more inventive. Nowadays the preferred method for the small to mid size dealer is via certain goods such as vehicles. They can be bought with cash and shipped down there without a question, then sold at near cost or sometimes even at a loss as the goal is to launder that money. It's no coincidence that there are now a gazillion car dealerships down there. Another method I know of is buying / building gas and propane stations.

The big time launderers have to think at a larger scale so buying / building real state is definitely preferred as you can easily launder a bunch of millions at a time in just one property...You can even get a congratulation from the president himself for the great investment you're making in the country.

images
 
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Nowadays the preferred method for the small to mid size dealer is via certain goods such as vehicles. They can be bought with cash and shipped down there without a question, then sold at near cost or sometimes even at a loss as the goal is to launder that money. It's no coincidence that there are now a gazillion car dealerships down there. Another method I know of is buying / building gas and propane stations.

Exactly!!! I was just speaking to a prospective client last week, an established car dealership, and his comment on local "competition" was that customers go and look around and many times they come saying that same car/model/year can be bought sometimes at 10-15% less at some other car dealerships. Everybody in the car dealership circle knows "who they are" but everybody stays put. Yes they buy cars cash at auctions, bring them in and sell them most frequently at under-market prices, what comes out is clean cash.
 

DRob

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Aug 15, 2007
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Hi Guys,

Can someone please explain to me how building a mall contributes to washing money?

I mean let's say I make $1000 from a drug deal.
I then use that $1000 to build a mall.
the mall still needs to make a profit for me to have 'washed' my money does it not?
What if the mall is not a success then I haven't exactly washed my money, as much as just 'thrown it away'..... no?

what am I missing?

Same thing has happened in Miami, Moscow, London and Dubai.

The key principle behind most money laundering schemes in real estate is the transfer of VALUE, as opposed to actually moving hard cash from place to place. In most commercial schemes, remember the buyer and seller (or renter, in the case of malls) is often the same person and/or entity. You can do it a couple of ways:

1) A building is constructed using funds that were submitted as drafts or bearer notes. It is completed, then sold (largely to a series of "investors" tied back to the criminal enterprise via company or trust) at a steep premium, which is also paid via drafts or notes. That's why the units cost so much relative to normal per-unit and operating costs. The payments "pass through" the property as legitimate income.

2) Same scenario as above, but via tenants in either a residential building or mall. Not only is the rent legitimate income, but the enterprise charges itself a high price for property management services.

3) A "fire sale," where the builder/launderer dumps excess property on the market and takes a loss on underpriced sales. Remember, the launderer controls all aspects of the transaction, and operates as buyer, seller, and broker. Therefore, the "losses" are paper losses only, and (you guessed it) tax deductible.

There are other schemes, of course, but those are the usual suspects for significant value transfers. Note that NONE of the above require real buyers, tenants, or customers to any degree to function. The criminal plays all those roles.

Anyway, in Miami, they used to call the buildings "dark towers" because they were newly built, looked great, but no one lived there. That was the deal for many decades, until the real estate boom brought in speculators. The funniest part was, the media actually bought the notion that the buildings were constructed off of 5% down payments, with the rest covered by the investment bank (they weren't really banks, just branded investment shops). Well, who do you think owned the assets in the bank?

Most developing nations don't have the Anti-Laundering laws, or frankly the resources to adequately combat this. In addition, the buildings are pretty, taxes are paid, and palms are greased quite liberally with this process, which, if run properly, looks fairly legitimate, especially given a third world mindset.

Frankly, it's pretty hard to detect and enforce against when you're a world financial power.

Oh, I know all this because I worked for a federal judge back in law school while she was running a laundering trial. Watching an Assistant U.S. Attorney lay it all out was very interesting stuff. And persuasive, as they were convicted.
 

windeguy

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Jul 10, 2004
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Truly a thread made as a monument to dead neurons, and their fans...

Let's see. Next we will be hearing how the DR government will be buying a fleet of submarines to bring the failed war on drugs to new depths. Of course they will be LA-Class nuclear powered fast attack submarines. This will of course have to wait until the cashless society and smart guns are fully implemented under Hipo's upcoming administration.
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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Chip, not being the "transit" country does not necessarily mean not being the "investment" (read: launder) country. In other words, even if they traffic through USVI, in long term perspective, there are better "investment" opportunities in the DR than they are in USVI.

If they build a mall, highrise, etc. for 20 million, 2 years from now they may sell it to some international company for 15 million, at a loss but at significant "laundered profit". Consider 3% p.a. inflation on US$, so 20million US$ would be 21.9 (round that to 22) million US$ worth in 3 years. Selling at 15 million would be almost 70% laundered profit. 30% "loss" at laundering I guess is no that much.

I am just surprised they are not investing more in tourist areas in luxury resorts, there is constant flow of cash (read: payments from tour operators) and most cash is dealt with in Miami, Switzerland or Panama (that's where touroperators pay).

I never stated there wasn't drug laundering in the DR. I am merely refuting CC's original claim and that of the author of the posted article.

Still, the fact that the US governments own reports show the shifting of the major traffic routes from the DR to other points in the Caribbean is a positive and should not be overlooked to be fair.
 

Expat13

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Jun 7, 2008
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Why?

What information do you have to refute this article?

Really, as far as the big picture he has Nada, its clear it has been going on for a long time, just as it had/has in Miami, Panama etc... Its just funny when some try to spin-it as a thriving, growing middle class of honest workers... It's not a scar on the DR, its just reality and happens in many similar territories... Just call a spade a spade and enjoy the uncrowded Malls!
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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Really, as far as the big picture he has Nada, its clear it has been going on for a long time, just as it had/has in Miami, Panama etc... Its just funny when some try to spin-it into a thriving growing middle class of honest workers... It not a scar on the DR as its just reality and happens in many similar territories... Just call a spade a spade!

As usual nobody bothered to read my links.

You guys make alsharpton look like a rookie!