The decline of European flights to Puerto Plata airport

Cdn_Gringo

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Apr 29, 2014
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Lots of reasons why flights to POP have been curtailed - all of them have to do with the number of people who want to come/leave from here.

Part of the problem is the airlines themselves and us, the flying public. The business model used to be, offer a flight somewhere, charge what it costs to go there and the people who really want to go to that place by air, pay that price. Then the airlines started to chase customers offering lower fares and this resulted in more seats on planes, more screaming kids and lots of people wearing spandex biking shorts and mesh t-shirts sitting next to you.

We contribute to the problem, by seeking out the absolute lowest price we can find for a flight when we want to travel. I yearn for an option that will charge me an exorbitant amount for a spacious seat, with good food and metal utensils, free from passengers under the age of 5 and no support animals allowed. I'm willing to pay a lot more than I do now for good service, an enjoyable flight with a class of people who know how to dress appropriately, who can behave themselves for 6 or 7 straight hours on planes that are not crammed from nose to tail.

It's a dream I know, as we are too far gone down the discount fares path to turn around now. Having to pay $2000 to come to POP won't work in the face of $800 return from Toronto, but we could have more choice of where to go and when we go, if we were prepared to pay for what the service actually costs when we remove all of the impediments of the travelling poor and the Honey Boo-Boo mindset that currently makes realistic pricing unworkable even if an ultra-luxurious airline wanted to offer discriminating service.

So for now, even at rock bottom prices, airlines can't fill planes to POP so they don't come. If the current trend continues, it will get harder and harder to justify an int'l airport here.
 

beeza

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Nov 2, 2006
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Lots of reasons why flights to POP have been curtailed - all of them have to do with the number of people who want to come/leave from here.

Part of the problem is the airlines themselves and us, the flying public. The business model used to be, offer a flight somewhere, charge what it costs to go there and the people who really want to go to that place by air, pay that price. Then the airlines started to chase customers offering lower fares and this resulted in more seats on planes, more screaming kids and lots of people wearing spandex biking shorts and mesh t-shirts sitting next to you.

We contribute to the problem, by seeking out the absolute lowest price we can find for a flight when we want to travel. I yearn for an option that will charge me an exorbitant amount for a spacious seat, with good food and metal utensils, free from passengers under the age of 5 and no support animals allowed. I'm willing to pay a lot more than I do now for good service, an enjoyable flight with a class of people who know how to dress appropriately, who can behave themselves for 6 or 7 straight hours on planes that are not crammed from nose to tail.

It's a dream I know, as we are too far gone down the discount fares path to turn around now. Having to pay $2000 to come to POP won't work in the face of $800 return from Toronto, but we could have more choice of where to go and when we go, if we were prepared to pay for what the service actually costs when we remove all of the impediments of the travelling poor and the Honey Boo-Boo mindset that currently makes realistic pricing unworkable even if an ultra-luxurious airline wanted to offer discriminating service.

So for now, even at rock bottom prices, airlines can't fill planes to POP so they don't come. If the current trend continues, it will get harder and harder to justify an int'l airport here.



The thing is, all the flights that currently arrive are full.  There are very few spare seats, even with the prices they currently charge, people are still buying fares.  The problem is that the airlines make more money flying on more profitable routes, so they drop the less profitable ones.  Airport fees and fuel prices eat into the profits.
 

drstock

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Oct 29, 2010
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Cabarete
We contribute to the problem, by seeking out the absolute lowest price we can find for a flight when we want to travel. I yearn for an option that will charge me an exorbitant amount for a spacious seat, with good food and metal utensils, free from passengers under the age of 5 and no support animals allowed. I'm willing to pay a lot more than I do now for good service, an enjoyable flight with a class of people who know how to dress appropriately, who can behave themselves for 6 or 7 straight hours on planes that are not crammed from nose to tail.

Wouldn't paying to travel business class or equivalent be your answer? I believe most travellers there wear tuxedos and bow ties.
 

GringoRubio

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Oct 15, 2015
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The thing is, all the flights that currently arrive are full.  There are very few spare seats, even with the prices they currently charge, people are still buying fares.  The problem is that the airlines make more money flying on more profitable routes, so they drop the less profitable ones.  Airport fees and fuel prices eat into the profits.


I'm not sure I follow your logic. Full overpriced flights sounds like an airline executives wet dream to me. How can they not be very profitable.

I think the problem is more that there isn't sufficient competition. Or, the landing fee costs to the airport are ridiculous. Or, both.

Why would an airline add more flights if your just diluting prices and profitability?
 

william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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Your Quote Rubio

Why would an airline add more flights if your just diluting prices and profitability?

Now just turn that thought around ?
as company President....

Let's look at the least profitable flights we have and the most profitable...
Which ones will we reduce ?

In order to fill those seats , they sometimes drop the price to a level they don't like.....
AZS was that situation..... people paid more to go to Punta Cana.....
so they switched the plane from AZS to Punta Cana
 

Lobo Tropical

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Aug 21, 2010
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it's a bit of pain in the heinie to go to europe using POP. and now you are even kicking a puppy of my hopes to connect via US...



Forget about US, poor service, delays, uncomfortable immigration and airport security.

Consider WestJet with frequent service POP-YYZ 4 Hrs.

Connect with Lufthansa daily flights from YYZ  with options FRA-WAW or MUC-WAW 10h 30min flight time YYZ-MUC-WAW
Note minimum layover, you have other options with more layover if desired.

20:05 
Toronto - Pearson Int'l (Lester) (YYZ) , Terminal 1
10:05 +1 day
Munich - Franz Josef Strauss (MUC) , Terminal 2
Operated by: "Lufthansa"
Airbus Industrie A330-300
Duration: 07 h 00 min  Layover: Munich - Franz Josef Strauss (MUC), 01 h 00 min
 LH1612
11:05 +1 day
Munich - Franz Josef Strauss (MUC) , Terminal 2
12:35 +1 day
Warsaw (WAW)
Operated by: "Lufthansa Cityline"
Embraer 195
Duration: 01 h 30 min
 

beeza

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Nov 2, 2006
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What I fear the most is the Dominican business model kicking in.  

1, Less long haul flights to the airport because of operating costs into that airport.  

2, Airport starts to loose money.  

3, Airport increases tariffs on remaining flights.  

4, Remaining flight operators creep up fare prices until people start to look elsewhere.

5, More flights are cancelled.

6, Airport goes broke and tries to sell it on to another buyer.

7, New buyer tries to recoup purchase cost and forces even higher tariffs........etc...etc...

Never in the history of Dominican business has anyone ever tried to reduce fees to attract new customers!
 

william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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Forget about US, poor service, delays, uncomfortable immigration and airport security.

Consider WestJet with frequent service POP-YYZ 4 Hrs.

Connect with Lufthansa daily flights from YYZ  with options FRA-WAW or MUC-WAW 10h 30min flight time YYZ-MUC-WAW
Note minimum layover, you have other options with more layover if desired.

20:05 
Toronto - Pearson Int'l (Lester) (YYZ) , Terminal 1
10:05 +1 day
Munich - Franz Josef Strauss (MUC) , Terminal 2
Operated by: "Lufthansa"
Airbus Industrie A330-300
Duration: 07 h 00 min  Layover: Munich - Franz Josef Strauss (MUC), 01 h 00 min
 LH1612
11:05 +1 day
Munich - Franz Josef Strauss (MUC) , Terminal 2
12:35 +1 day
Warsaw (WAW)
Operated by: "Lufthansa Cityline"
Embraer 195
Duration: 01 h 30 min

I have flown POP to LGW that way -- thru Toronto.

Other way = not so good.... sleep over for 9am to POP

I posted this earlier here

Very easy going to UK.... very - like a 2 hr connection - WestJet all the way
 

Lobo Tropical

Silver
Aug 21, 2010
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What I fear the most is the Dominican business model kicking in.  

1, Less long haul flights to the airport because of operating costs into that airport.  

2, Airport starts to loose money.  

3, Airport increases tariffs on remaining flights.  

4, Remaining flight operators creep up fare prices until people start to look elsewhere.

5, More flights are cancelled.

6, Airport goes broke and tries to sell it on to another buyer.

7, New buyer tries to recoup purchase cost and forces even higher tariffs........etc...etc...

Never in the history of Dominican business has anyone ever tried to reduce fees to attract new customers!




I don't consider POP costs a big deal.
Arrival time, comfort and minimum transfer time from airport to destination are important to me.
As you know, airlines need to work on volume to make destinations profitable.
The maximum volume is missing from the POP area, more of a niche market.
 
Canadian airlines had direct charter flights to POP continuing to PUJ.
Volume has shifted to the AI- PUJ market and direct charters in Winter, from Canada's West Coast to POP have been cancelled for years.
There are also no direct flights to POP from the US West Coast.

All this will not change unless there is a major North Coast tourism infrastructure improvement.
First of all luxury Punta Cana style AI hotels and improved roads to bring tourists to the attractions outside of the resorts.
On the whole, with Nature and things to do the POP area is superior to Punta Cana, even though the beaches are not equal.
 

william webster

Platinum
Jan 16, 2009
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We always say here....

If you think you saved money getting to POP by flying to Punta Cana or SDQ -- you may not have.

Transportation costs and time can eat up most savings pretty fast.

But today..... different tune.

The airport scenario at POP is not a major factor in the problem.

Deeper issues - North Coast infrastructure.... older hotels, restaurants..... are larger impediments to the
growth of tourism....
 

Cdn_Gringo

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Apr 29, 2014
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I can't speak to the American airlines since I do not use them; They generally aren't going where I wish to fly directly. Westjet and Air Canada fill their planes to Puerto Plata with tourists who have purchased a vacation package from the airline owned travel site. We DR residents just get squished onto the same planes as there is usually some seats available for non-package travelers.

Certainly, if there is normally only 10 people on the flight, it wouldn't operate that route for very long. We have access to the Canadian airlines in Puerto Plata only so long as the airlines can sell enough package vacations to those wishing to vacation on the North Coast of the DR. There is not enough demand from non-tourists wishing to go to Toronto or Montreal. Maybe one flight a month would be sustainable but not worth the consideration by the airline.
 

Cdn_Gringo

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Apr 29, 2014
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I worry that declining airport revenue will force the fees to the airlines up and result in a decision someday to stop flying here. I'm not at all interested in travelling to Punta Cana to catch a direct flight to the frozen north which someday might be the reality.

I'm sure it's the same for the European airlines. They shuttle tourists not regular passengers to and from the DR. Service will be to where the majority of tourists wish to go. For Europeans, that doesn't seem to be Puerto Plata.
 

BelgianMik

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Jul 9, 2015
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As some of the regulars that know me, I work at POP airport as an aircraft engineer for the airlines.  I've just seen my summer 18 program and it's quite alarming and shows a significant downturn from previous years.

Condor will stop flying altogether from May until October.
Eurowings will reduce from three to two flights per week, even though there was speculation that they would fill the gap left by the demise of Air Berlin
Thomson will suspend their MAN flights later this Autumn
No sign of Thomas Cook from UK returning.
No sign of Jetairfly from Belgium returning.
No sign of Arkefly from Holland returning.
The French, Finns and Scandis only fly in the winter.
The Russian carrier Nordwind are set to continue with the 10/11 day rotation.

Those in the know are citing the exorbitant operating and fuel costs out of POP, plus the limited availability of quality accommodation at POP as the root cause.

A real shame...........

For the people who are answering now:
This post was from February.
And when this discussion began, I already said that Eurowings didn't have any flight coming in here a couple of years ago and now they have 2 a week and in the busy season 3.
And this thread showed up first now because now I replied that Tui Belgium (after 7 years or so) announced yesterday that they will start flying again from Brussels to Puerto Plata from November and Tui Holland announced a couple of months ago that they will also start flying again from Amsterdam ( after an absence of 1 year or so). So from Belgium and Holland, it goes up.
A year ago we only had Condor and Eurowings that only just started, now we can choose between Eurowings, Condor, Xl Airlines (who started flying from Paris a couple of months ago), Tui Belgium and Tui Holland.
 

GringoRubio

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Oct 15, 2015
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Your Quote Rubio

Why would an airline add more flights if your just diluting prices and profitability?

Now just turn that thought around ?
as company President....

Let's look at the least profitable flights we have and the most profitable...
Which ones will we reduce ?

In order to fill those seats , they sometimes drop the price to a level they don't like.....
AZS was that situation..... people paid more to go to Punta Cana.....
so they switched the plane from AZS to Punta Cana

Of course, but I just can't imagine how the POP flights are not profitable. I've taken the AA flight from Miami to POP many times which are always full and hugely expensive. Of course, I don't have access to their books, so this is all speculation, but I agree that it's likely a rational choice.

I think Punta Cana is seeing the Southwest effect. Increased competition is driving down prices, which feeds the cycle of more travelers which means more flights.

Any strategy to increasing seat prices and utilization by restricting flights is likely to fail in the face of competition with the likes of Southwest. However, in POP, that strategy can be perfectly viable.
 

william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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Not so much 'unprofitable' - I agree

But others may be 'more profitable'...
like switching horses... getting a faster one

That AZS flight always had a good load... but I rarely paid over $500 R/T

E.G.
I booked my daughter one Christmas..... $1700 R/T ... costly holiday time

When the smoke cleared - as flight day approached Jet Blue had that down to $800 to fill the seats.

I claimed a refund (low price guarantee) & got it... credit to my account
Her husband got $600 back after flying in... and I told him about it

That's the best example of how their system works to fill those seats
 

GringoRubio

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Oct 15, 2015
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Not so much 'unprofitable' - I agree

But others may be 'more profitable'...
like switching horses... getting a faster one

That AZS flight always had a good load... but I rarely paid over $500 R/T

E.G.
I booked my daughter one Christmas..... $1700 R/T ... costly holiday time

When the smoke cleared - as flight day approached Jet Blue had that down to $800 to fill the seats.

I claimed a refund (low price guarantee) & got it... credit to my account
Her husband got $600 back after flying in... and I told him about it

That's the best example of how their system works to fill those seats

I've never looked into the flights at AZS. I'll have to check that you.
 

william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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no more JetBlue... about 2 yrs ago....no US flights whatsoever actually.

Samana, Cabrera even SDQ passengers

Serving a very small, undeveloped market - compared to P Cana or POP -
 

Uzin

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Oct 26, 2005
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There seems to be no direct flights to and from POP from Germany on Condor or Eurowings from Nov 2018, is there something I missed... !? (Condor now offers flight via US)
 

HDR

Active member
Nov 21, 2012
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There seems to be no direct flights to and from POP from Germany on Condor or Eurowings from Nov 2018, is there something I missed... !? (Condor now offers flight via US)

If this is true it would suck. Main reason to fly Condor is to not go through the US