Trump pulling out or Cap Cana?????

Narcosis

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Dec 18, 2003
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First of all my family has had a villa in Casa de Campo for almost 20 Years!!!!! In Regards to Cap Cana i think the Project is great but there is a worry the way Grupo abrisa and Hazoury financed the project this concern will only grow as the global credit crunch continues growing. The projects that are done in Puerto rico are mainly done by private equity investment. Mr. Arturo Diaz doesn't have to mortgage the Property to get the money!!!!!!!!!!

Funny you mention this..The land Cap Cana is on was originally owned by the Central Romana Corp. They did not want to deal with the land disputes of some fisherman that were in the area around Juanillo bay so they decided to put it up for sale.

The first bid was made by a group of Puerto Rican investors, but funny enough they could not get financing in time and lost the land, in came the Hazourys and got LOCAL financing through a pool of Dominican banks to buy the land.

The rest has been well documented by some people on this site including the private bond issue raising funds, a record rate for a country like the D.R. which is proof of the faith investors abroad have in this project as well as the investment climate of the DR in general.
 

Lambada

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Can I also repeat something I posted pages back? I have heard NOTHING about Trump pulling out. I don't believe the Cap Cana issues are financial so much as organisational and managerial & I had an inside source. Note past tense. ;)
 

johne

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Jun 28, 2003
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I'm starting to get confused...not hard at my age but..

Kemo-the part I don't understand is--are you an investor in the project? In some fashion? It seem to me from your postings you are. You also seem to be a seasoned investor from what I have read. Given that information what investor in their right mind ever plays down their project, talks bad about their investment. In all my years of RE investing I have never heard of such a thing. So..what confuses me is where you're coming from and the purpose of your original post.
Pls. clarify for my own knowledge.
BTW--not necessary to know
"your source", "her source" etc. just what the heck is going on here.
Thanks
JOHN
 

Mr_DR

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May 12, 2002
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Kemo-the part I don't understand is--are you an investor in the project? In some fashion? It seem to me from your postings you are. You also seem to be a seasoned investor from what I have read. Given that information what investor in their right mind ever plays down their project, talks bad about their investment. In all my years of RE investing I have never heard of such a thing. So..what confuses me is where you're coming from and the purpose of your original post.
Pls. clarify for my own knowledge.
BTW--not necessary to know
"your source", "her source" etc. just what the heck is going on here.
Thanks
JOHN

he wishes...lol
 

biriwi

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Feb 20, 2008
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There is no US 'real estate crunch'. There is a financial crisis. A stack of people are defaulting on adjustable mortgage loans in the sub-prime sector. Almost all banks or financial institutions of note or brokerages traded these loans which were bundled together as a tradeable commodities of various kinds. (This is simplistic .. there are other financial factors happening at the moment as well.)

To speculate that Trump could be a 'big loser' is truly a stretch that defies my imagination.



LOL, no real estate crunch. Idealists are everywhere you look. Let me guess, Bill O'reilly told you.
 

johne

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Jun 28, 2003
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Don't shoot without bullets

LOL, no real estate crunch. Idealists are everywhere you look. Let me guess, Bill O'reilly told you.

kiwi---If you don't see the difference between "a financial crisis" and a "real estate crunch" it might serve you well to do a little more homework and try to understand the dynamics of the current financial crisis that we are experiencing world -wide.Trying to introduce a political stance lends nothing to the thread.

And BTW- Iwonder why Mr. Kemo never answered my last post(just noticed that)
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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LOL, no real estate crunch. Idealists are everywhere you look. Let me guess, Bill O'reilly told you.

Yes, no real estate crunch. You can pick up houses and other real estate for sometimes half of their valuation in the US today. That is, if you have money to buy 'cause you're not going to get a mortgage easily. Same for the DR, if you have money to buy, inventory is available. Price is another story.
 

biriwi

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Feb 20, 2008
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Yes, no real estate crunch. You can pick up houses and other real estate for sometimes half of their valuation in the US today. That is, if you have money to buy 'cause you're not going to get a mortgage easily. Same for the DR, if you have money to buy, inventory is available. Price is another story.


Chris, being able to pick up houses and other real estate at 50% is a direct result of the real estate crunch. Not being able to get a mortgage is a direct result of the real estate crunch. Do not take the consequences and make it the root. Being abe to pick up property in the DR at reasonable prices is part of a country's development. That will change eventually.
 

biriwi

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Feb 20, 2008
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kiwi---If you don't see the difference between "a financial crisis" and a "real estate crunch" it might serve you well to do a little more homework and try to understand the dynamics of the current financial crisis that we are experiencing world -wide.Trying to introduce a political stance lends nothing to the thread.

And BTW- Iwonder why Mr. Kemo never answered my last post(just noticed that)


You have this particular way of replying that implies knowledge superiority.

I'm not smarter than anyone here, but Google is a funny word with a lot or resources. I'll even help you with the search: "US real estate market world economy".


Thanks,

Kiwi
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
Funny you mention this..The land Cap Cana is on was originally owned by the Central Romana Corp. They did not want to deal with the land disputes of some fisherman that were in the area around Juanillo bay so they decided to put it up for sale.

The first bid was made by a group of Puerto Rican investors, but funny enough they could not get financing in time and lost the land, in came the Hazourys and got LOCAL financing through a pool of Dominican banks to buy the land.

The rest has been well documented by some people on this site including the private bond issue raising funds, a record rate for a country like the D.R. which is proof of the faith investors abroad have in this project as well as the investment climate of the DR in general.

Hey Kemo! I too own a home there as well!
Mine is on the right of the 8th hole facing the sea...
Right between the Mena's home and the Esteban Marriot's on the far left.

Where's yours? Maybe we're close and have met from afar on the green on occasions!?!

BTW: Since you said you happen to own the house there for about 20 years, do you happen to remember that Costasur promised to gate our villas from the golf club visitors and member?s access roads and nothing happened? If so, do you still have the original pamphlets they handed out when reviewing the lots by any chance?

Hope we can team up for a couple of swings there as well!

We rent ours into the pool so that we can make back some money when not at home there... Which is more times than not, sadly to say...
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
Can I also repeat something I posted pages back? I have heard NOTHING about Trump pulling out. I don't believe the Cap Cana issues are financial so much as organisational and managerial & I had an inside source. Note past tense. ;)




Wow!!!

I looked into buying a lot there and so far only villas are on the table... Pricey...

There's an expanded project close to the Trump's touted "residences", but it's mostly made up of land owners setting parcels partitions to their own benefit without any real projection or plans for basic services other than the ones you must build yourself...

I was having a chat with some people with investments on the zone and most did so because they wanted to own a piece of the best place to live at in the DR, not to flip the properties...

As a matter of fact, most of those who purchased villas and property there used almost 90% self money; unlike most in other areas done via loans and small down payments...

It?s the same way Casa de Campo came to be. You had to own the cash to buy in, otherwise it was a no-no.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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...and all thanks to Uncle Sam ...:tired:
Of course!

For those of you who still don't get what is the true purpose of this thread, its this. Many (notice, I'm saying MANY which in no shape or form means MOST or ALL) Puerto Ricans feel the need to constantly make themselves feel superior to Dominicans by comparing their tiny island to the DR. The funny part is that those same Puerto Ricans who like to make such comparisons, don't really like when the comparisons are done in reverse by Dominicans (they can dish it, but can't take it... I guess). Hence, Kemo comes into the picture.

He constantly is comparing Puerto Rico to the DR or vice versa, BUT in EVERY SINGLE COMPARISON he makes, PR is above the DR. The comparisons goes like this, blah blah blah in the DR is fine, but its just better in PR. The underlining message is that Puerto Ricans are better than Dominicans, period.

Of course, Dominicans are quick to "remind" such people that Puerto Rico is what it is because of the Americans forking over their money and those Puerto Ricans that like to make comparisons between the DR and PR (but hate it when Dominicans do the same) go on a rampage explaining that their relationship with the US means nothing, that the real reason behind PR's development is the Puerto Rican people. Of course, one has to wonder why they don't go the independent route rather than continue as a colony, but whatever!

The fact of the matter is that PR and DR are both in the shyte hole, albeit one is actually moving forward (DR, despite the fact that many people think its going nowhere or even backward) and the other is going nowhere (PR, despite the fact that many people think PR is moving forward, except for Puerto Ricans who complain about their island as much as Dominicans do about the DR and almost about the same problems).

Despite the fact that Kemo has made Puerto Rico appear as this great place just east of the DR, better than the DR in everything and all thanks to the Puerto Rican people, the Americans had nothing to do with anything over there:ermm:, the fact is that Puerto Rico has some serious problems.

Let me list a few and then I'll tie this to the topic of the thread and then I'm done, for now.

1. The Puerto Rican economy had the worst performance in the entire Caribbean last year and the year before that. It actually shrunk by over 1% last year, the island has been in a recession since the early 1990s, unemployment is still excessively high and there appears to be no light at the end of the tunnel, at least for the time being, but then again, that has been the case for almost 20 years now, so....

2. Despite getting billions every year from Uncle Sam in free money, the Puerto Rican government took 10 years to build the first line of their subway (of the same length as the Dominican metro). Why? They ran into all sorts of problem, the main one being running out of money. Apparently, the superior Puerto Rican people didn't quite had the money to build the thing and guess who came to the rescue to save what was essential a project on the verge of failure? You got it, Uncle Sam.

On top of that, now that that project is finished, it mostly moves air from one place to another since its under-utilized.

3. The crime rate in PR is quite high. The drug war is everywhere, homes all over that island have bars on their windows and doors, the murder rate in San Juan is among the highest in US territory, car jacking is a national sport, and there is a strong anti-American feeling in the more remote parts of the island, to the degree that many PRs feel the need to express their distate for all things American to the few American tourists that make it to those places.

4. The treatment of animals is questionable. There was a report not too long ago about a place where hundreds of corpses of pets were found. Apparently, a gang of some sort went around stealing people's pets (dogs, cats, etc) and they threw those animals from a bridge to their deaths on a river a few hundred feet below. This even made it to national US news to the degree that the PR tourism company had to create a new damage control PR advertisement to prevent a fall in tourism. It was that bad.

5. Politics in PR are about as messy as the Dominican counterpart. In fact, about a year ago the entire Puerto Rican government collapsed for a month or so because the two main political groups in control were not able to effectively disburse millions of dollars to the various government departments. It was so bad that students on the entire island had their summer vacations early because the teachers had gone through weeks without seeing a dime and the same happened to the entire police force, and all government workers. All government agencies, even hospitals, were either closing or on the verge of doing such.

6. Break downs in basic services do occur. Don't be fooled by those Puerto Ricans who go around claiming their island is first world, because even though it looks first world (if you ignore slums like La Perla or Barrio Obrero in San Juan and elsewhere where tin roofs and badly constructed shacks are the norm), it sure doesn't function like a first world place. In many places water shortages are a fact of life on a daily basis, especially in the west around Mayaguez. In fact, this can get so bad at times, that many homes in PR have water tanks to compensate for the shortages.

The list goes on and on.

Some two-thirds of all households in PR live off food coupons offered by the government, good paying jobs are so few and wages are relatively low that PR is still losing more people than its gaining in terms of migration, the view many Puerto Ricans living outside of PR have of their island is that of a zoo crammed to the nth degree with people with cultural decay, crime, drugs, and laziness being rampant.

Now, I'm not saying that the DR doesn't suffer from similar problems or that those problems are minor in the DR compared to PR, but please, if you think PR is a floating Florida, you are going to be in for a shock.

Puerto Rico is a beautiful place and there are many good things about the place and the people, but don't go by what Kemo is saying because all he is doing is making himself feel better and his island sound nicer than it is by denigrating all things Dominican in preference for all things Puerto Ricans.

And to all those Puerto Ricans who don't go around making themselves feel superior by comparing their island to an independent country without a cookie jar to put its hand in, please, accept by apology for this negative post.

Your island is beautiful, its just that some of your people are... well, are not. :ermm:

And to tie this to the topic of the thread, Trump is not pulling out and Cap Cana is still a go! ;) :cheeky:

-NALs
 

johne

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Jun 28, 2003
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Further to Nals'points

Just as a reminder:1) All of this aid from the U.S. and nary a penny is paid by the PR citizens in taxes. Not a penny.
2) They receive social benefit programs equal to what is received in the U.S. (read NYC).But, the "quality" of the benefits are not the same according to the young lady working the snack bar at the golf course. She has a disabled son and uses the Medicaid program of the U.S.But,the hospital is second rate. She is "thinking" of moving to NYC BUT it's"too cold there".So, she keeps the job at the golf course (Westin U.S. corporation) and receives U.S. based medical coverage thru the corp. Then uses the additional beniefits to avail herself of some private medical care.

I don't want to deny her life in the sun and fun but as Nal's pointed out --paid for, in part, by me in the cold and no fun.

john
 
Feb 15, 2005
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This thread is moving slightly off course but I wnt to add my two pennies:

while true that PR receives money from the US you must remember that PR is colonialized and because it does receive money it's polocies are govern as such. 5 years ago, the central telephone company employing 1000s of people was privatized without much choice if any. Many hundreds lost their jobs immediately. This has gone on and on. In DR you have the luxury of controlling your own destiny albiet with questionable government involvement in private dealings.
Given the stark difference in true independence you still have 1000s of boat people crossing the Mona Channel yearly to find a better life. This even though DR is growing economically. That's the paradox.
Me personally, I feel that the social programs in PR is what hurt the ambition of the population. The beaches in PR are perfect and the location is great. While Puerto Ricans paved the way for all latinos in the States, the youth have lost ambition.
What lacks is ambition which was once a staple of the PR people and has been snuffed by US social and privatization controls.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Richard Alberto said:
Given the stark difference in true independence you still have 1000s of boat people crossing the Mona Channel yearly to find a better life. This even though DR is growing economically. That's the paradox.
Its not much of a paradox when you take into consideration that its only a few hundreds that try, not thousands, and the number of people taking yolas to PR has been on a consistent decline since the end of the last crisis in 2003/04.

What explains this decline?

Improved vigilance and economic conditions in the DR.

Aside from that, PR is a stop over on their way to the US. In other words, PR is not the attraction but the relative ease of getting to the US via PR is.

As the Dominican economy continues to grow and develop, the number of people taking yolas to PR will continue to decline year after year.

Here is a recent news article documenting the 50% decrease in illegal trips to Puerto Rico from the DR.

Dice viajes de ilegales en yolas a Puerto Rico se reducen 50%

Richard Alberto said:
Me personally, I feel that the social programs in PR is what hurt the ambition of the population. The beaches in PR are perfect and the location is great. While Puerto Ricans paved the way for all latinos in the States, the youth have lost ambition.

What lacks is ambition which was once a staple of the PR people and has been snuffed by US social and privatization controls.
I agree, and its part of human nature. Getting anything for nothing destroys ambition and that is a prerequisite to be successful in life.

On the part that I desagree is on the notion that privatization some-how affects the ambition level of people, that is not true. Privatization and people's ambition are two different things, however ambition is adversely affected by free handouts; that's a given.

Ok, back to topic.

-NALs
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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I agree, and its part of human nature. Getting anything for nothing destroys ambition and that is a prerequisite to be successful in life.
Does that apply to Dominican politicians, including the ones you support, giving all those handouts to poor people?
 

aegap

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Mar 19, 2005
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my humble opionion

The moderator for this forum should get rid of at least the last seven post, which have nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

...and this one too.