West Indian?

[CARIBBAmericanPrincessa]

We all know or should know that West Indies is the biggest misnomer in the World. And I would hope that people from that region don't believe that they have any rapport with India. Unfortunately, I read a post above where someone proved me wrong. I must confess if someone asked me where I was from I would never say "west indian" rather the country where I am from. But if someone would ask if I am "west indian" I would say "yes" and specify exactly that I am from Haiti.

.

I HIGHLY doubt that anyone who is from the Caribbean/the West Indies/ whatever we want to call it , would think that they have any rapport with India. HIGHLY DOUBT IT. Unless they are just clueless and still, they know better. I don't think that comment was made from someone in the region, and if it were, then, pity..

Princessa~

 

[Salsassin]

...and people from Ethiopia are Abyssinians, Sri Lankans are Ceylonese, etc.

Yes they are.

 

[CARIBBAmericanPrincessa]

With reference to people from the real Indian subcontinent who live in the Caribbean, in my experience they are described as "East Indians" living in the West Indies - just to make the distinction.

I'm sorry but this statement has been irking me. Clearly, there are people who are of Indian decent who live in the West Indies/Caribbean(pick one, I don't care) . However, we(or from my experience) do not regard them as "East Indians" living in the West Indies. That would be like saying the people there of obvious African decent are "Africans" living in the West Indies. It is not the same? Yes it is..

Like any one of us there, they are of what ever island they are born.Some say Trini-Indian and some just say Trini. Some say Guyanese Indian and some Guyanese. Regardless, they are not people from "over there" living here (well I am not there right now but you know what I mean).

Maybe I am misreading your message but that is what I get from it.
One thing about the Caribbean, you have a mix of people from all places and you are no less West Indian/Caribbean/whatever you choose to call yourself , because of your descendants. You born there, then you are one too. Plain and simple.

Many Islands,same vibe. Too busy keeping it irie to give a d***!

Princessa~

 

[Salsassin]

West Indies, like any other name may have had its origins in many misnomers. We still call native people indians. The fact is that words take on new meanings. West Indies now basically is a synonym for the Countries of the Americas surrounding the Caribbean region. And the cultures that have evolved from migrations and trade back and forth on those islands and mainland coasts.
If you are Caribbean you are West Indian.

 

[Tordok]

West Indies, like any other name may have had its origins in many misnomers. We still call native people indians. The fact is that words take on new meanings. West Indies now basically is a synonym for the Countries of the Americas surrounding the Caribbean region. And the cultures that have evolved from migrations and trade back and forth on those islands and mainland coasts.
If you are Caribbean you are West Indian.

Only if you're willing to refer to Bulgarians as Thracians, or Guatemalans as Mayans, The French as Goths, or the Sudanese as Nubians. If you cannot accept that the ethno-demographic nomenclature actually does evolve over time, along with the culture and the politics of each era, then you might as well call everyone a hominid and get it over with.

Even the Brits (or is it the Anglo-Saxon Celtic alliance??) can tell apart what nowadays some outdated people refer to as West Indians (largely the English-speaking Afro-Caribbean peoples) and distinguish it from the Latin Americans that inhabit the Caribbean islands (Cubans, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans) and their coastal mainland cousins
(Colombians, Venezuelans, Panamanians, etc).

The explanations already available on this thread seem sufficient to clarify this issue, yet your insistence on using outdated misnomers when referring to modern inhabitants of lands or peoples formerly known as something else is either your way of being witty or maybe you just enjoy being rude.

- Tordok

 

[A.Hidalgo]

I'll go out on the limb and say he is being RUDE, genetics and all.

 

[MonoLoco]

listen. Germans are from germany like chinese are from china. so i dont know what makes your think arawak and other native american groups are from "west indies" when there is only one land with indian people called india. Native americans are from the america's not from "west indies" IF you ask native americans if they are indian they get offended because there not indian. There native americans. So when you claim ther are from a west indies place you saying there not from the america's. because they dont have indians here. Its native americans. Indians are from india which is in western asia. Not the americas. Common sense. Obvioulsy the spaniards where very stupid to some how think a small island was india. when india is not completly sorrounded by water, they were no elephants in america. I mean look at india in the map. Look how big it is. how your gunna mistaken a small island for that. India isnt even completly sorrounded by water.

 

[shadInToronto]

Nothing new man!!!!

listen. Germans are from germany like chinese are from china. so i dont know what makes your think arawak and other native american groups are from "west indies" when there is only one land with indian people called india. Native americans are from the america's not from "west indies" IF you ask native americans if they are indian they get offended because there not indian. There native americans. So when you claim ther are from a west indies place you saying there not from the america's. because they dont have indians here. Its native americans. Indians are from india which is in western asia. Not the americas. Common sense. Obvioulsy the spaniards where very stupid to some how think a small island was india. when india is not completly sorrounded by water, they were no elephants in america. I mean look at india in the map. Look how big it is. how your gunna mistaken a small island for that. India isnt even completly sorrounded by water.

This horse is ready to be turned into glue ....

The Spaniards didn't have satellites at that time to tell Hispaniola was an island :ermm:

 

[Rocky]

listen. Germans are from germany like chinese are from china. so i dont know what makes your think arawak and other native american groups are from "west indies" when there is only one land with indian people called india. Native americans are from the america's not from "west indies" IF you ask native americans if they are indian they get offended because there not indian. There native americans.

I think we all know the history of why the natives were called Indians for centuries, and that it is no longer politically correct.

So when you claim ther are from a west indies place you saying there not from the america's.

Do you know of a West Indies, elsewhere, than in the Americas?

because they dont have indians here. Its native americans. Indians are from india which is in western asia. Not the americas. Common sense.

You must have not read this whole thread. We all know about the natives being mistakenly called Indians for centuries.

Obvioulsy the spaniards where very stupid to some how think a small island was india.

Easy for you to say, 500 years later with your maps and GPS.
Heck, most people still thought the Earth was flat, back in those days.

when india is not completly sorrounded by water,

India has islands off it's coast too, and when you pull up broadside onto an island the size of Hispaniola, in a boat, there's no way you can see that it is surrounded by water, and it would appear to be mainland.

they were no elephants in america.

Elephants don't hang out on the coast. There was no way for them to know that they would not find elephants inland. If you sail into India, you will not see elephants there either.

I mean look at india in the map. Look how big it is. how your gunna mistaken a small island for that.

When was the last time you were in a boat? Hispaniola is not a small island and it could be half the size, and still look like mainland.

India isnt even completly sorrounded by water.

They would not have known, upon arrival that the DR was an island, and that did not preclude that it could have been an island off the Indian coast.

You are trying to apply modern day knowledge and technology to the late 1400's.
So here's a brief, to help you understand what the West Indies are.
Pursuant to the Americas being discovered, yet refered to as India, and it's people, Indians, the Brits, who colonized many regions, coined the term, West Indies, to differentiate America from India, to the East. The term has faded away in the last 100 years or so, as it is more and more refered to as the Caribbean.
That's it, that's all, that's the whole story.
Nothing complicated about it.
Things change, names change, it's all a part of evolution.
My dog is called a Rhodesian Ridgeback, yet they came originally from South Africa, but were specialized in Rhodesia, which no longer exists, and is now called Zimbabwe.
Should they change the breed's name?

 

[Celt202]

My dog is called a Rhodesian Ridgeback, yet they came originally from South Africa, but were specialized in Rhodesia, which no longer exists, and is now called Zimbabwe.
Should they change the breed's name?

We're sorry Bruno but we can't be calling you a Rhodesian Ridgeback any more. Cecil Rhodes is now viewed as an empire builder and coloniser of Rhodesia and those are now considered BAD THINGS.

You are now a Zimbabwean Drooler.....and please don't slobber on the guests.

Back to the OP: I consider myself a pigmentally challenged resident.

I am not a West Indian or an Indian. I don't bob my head when I talk or shake my head for yes and say "Ah cha". Don't make me go postal, co?o!

 

[Amerimoor]

I may be wrong but i think it mean West Indian trading company and not a landmark.Anyway, i don't think Colmbus was lost in the first place. Or looking for India.

 

[elgregro]

lol.... all this deep ethnic analysis of a misunderstood term and its as simple as a general name for a geographic area.

even i knew that since real young. im 19 years old.

i love the arguments though. we can all learn about ethnicity, geneology and original place of origin.

im from NYC and of the young and mostly uneducated(of an argument like this) generation.

its all about usage of the term West Indian. Here in NYC, since there is every single nationality from the Caribbean "West Indian" mostly describes the British islands... the English decendents like Jamaica/Trinidas/Barbadoes, Guyana, etc.... the term is more used as a cultural identification.

Me? im a Haitian-American who you can say "adopted" DR as my second sub culture cuz im in love with it and im well knowledgable of it since i grew up around nothing but Dominicans and ive even been to DR once.... anyways as a Haitian, for cultural/historic/language/food/music etc... reasons we are more Latin but since people dont know the true meaning of latino, they will think its only a spanish speaking, brown/light-skinned thing. With that said, due to how people use the term "West Indian" me as a Haitian, i dont consider myself one. My country has more in common with DR than lets say Jamaica.


But to be technical and educated, West Indian comes from Columbus not finding India and the the East Indies. So the new world became the West Indies. So we are all West Indian no matter what language/culture. If you are from the Caribbean, you are more than welcome at the West Indian labor day parade in NYC (yes PR/DR also)

 

[A.Hidalgo]

lol.... all this deep ethnic analysis of a misunderstood term and its as simple as a general name for a geographic area.

even i knew that since real young. im 19 years old.

i love the arguments though. we can all learn about ethnicity, geneology and original place of origin.

im from NYC and of the young and mostly uneducated(of an argument like this) generation.

its all about usage of the term West Indian. Here in NYC, since there is every single nationality from the Caribbean "West Indian" mostly describes the British islands... the English decendents like Jamaica/Trinidas/Barbadoes, Guyana, etc.... the term is more used as a cultural identification.

Me? im a Haitian-American who you can say "adopted" DR as my second sub culture cuz im in love with it and im well knowledgable of it since i grew up around nothing but Dominicans and ive even been to DR once.... anyways as a Haitian, for cultural/historic/language/food/music etc... reasons we are more Latin but since people dont know the true meaning of latino, they will think its only a spanish speaking, brown/light-skinned thing. With that said, due to how people use the term "West Indian" me as a Haitian, i dont consider myself one. My country has more in common with DR than lets say Jamaica.


But to be technical and educated, West Indian comes from Columbus not finding India and the the East Indies. So the new world became the West Indies. So we are all West Indian no matter what language/culture. If you are from the Caribbean, you are more than welcome at the West Indian labor day parade in NYC (yes PR/DR also)

Read post's #76 and #85 and learn something.:surprised

 

[elgregro]

also its sad that many people are unaware of all this. they are very and ethno-centric. they wont bother to know or learn the truth about their own culture or others.

its like many young DR/PR being blind to the fact that a great deal of their people(physically) and culture (music, food, dance, linguistic dialects) are African derrived yet they will still have the nerve to be semi-racist/ to others.



like DUHHHHHHHHHHHHH, stupid... half your country is black, stop acting like there arnt tons of dark skinned people out there that are hispanic.

We're all brothers and sisters... people dont wanna know or accept it. Unfortunatly its a bad cycle cuz ignorance is passed on by parent and not inherited in your genes.

I love this forum because it is extremely adult and educated... i wish that more young people can come across a board like this. They need to stop being stereotype brainwashed by TV/other media/other people/ and their parents.

If you guys wish to see the sad state of ignornce by the youth (my age and less) go to this forum... bbs.localhookupz.com

thats the message board im comming from because im tired of the there so all i do is act stupid with them.... i'll bring my intellect to a place like DR1.com instead. i tried over there and its pointless.

 

[elgregro]

Read post's #76 and #85 and learn something.:surprised

ummmm?

whats there for me to learn that i dont already know?

if i need to be enlightened, tell me what you found wrong in my post.

 

[Rick Snyder]

Elgregro,

Welcome to DR1, the "everything you need to know about th DR" message board.

Having said that then allow me to inform you that there are certain rules and regulation that we follow on this board. It is due to those rules that I decided to edit your post #94.

If you had read all 10 pages of this thread, which I don't think you did, you would see why Hidalgo said to read #76 and 85. If you had even read those two posts you would know better then to post what you did in #95.

Other than that you have the opportunity to learn from this board as there are a lot of intelligent people here that know what they are talking about. I would suggest that you sit back a little and read a few threads so that you may become familiar with some of the regular posters. In the upper right hand corner of their posts you will see the date they joined this board and the number of posts they have made. This isn't a guarantee as to their intelligence but generally it's a good indicator.

The things that aren't allowed on this board is talking religion, race and any name calling or talking bad about a persons family. It is because of these rules that helps make this the board what it is. The owner has designated a number of us as moderators to help insure that everyone plays fairly.

Having said all that then good luck to you. Ohhhhhh, for what it's worth I would use spell checker if I were you.

Rick

 

[elgregro]

lol@ spell check. i know i dont use perfect spelling and grammar here but i type coherant enough so that you understand. i dont feel like using capitals and such. trust me i can be understood.

i dont know where i mentioned race,religion in any negative tone but sorry for whatever. i said what i said and i did read those 2 posts that he told me to read but i didnt see any relevence to what i was saying. i know for a fact what i said to this issue was valid, but for the sake of you guys seniority and me being "inexperienced" here, i'll fall back from this one and find somthing another topic.

 

[Rick Snyder]

Elgregro,

Let me start out by saying that we have now progressed or transgressed into 10 pages on the subject of the OP. If you had read those 10 pages you would have seen that you had brought nothing new to the table and therefore were only rehashing that which had already been stated.

So that you may be aware, DR1 was envisioned as a way for people to learn that which they might need or want to know about the Dominican Republic. The owners of this board have divided the board into different categories so that a person may easily find that which they are looking for.

The owners, in their ultimate wisdom, created the "Debates" forum and the "General" forum for those that wish to deviate from the inferred quest to provide useful answers to those seeking information concerning the DR. If it is your desire to enter arguments, as you have insinuated in your posts, then I would suggest that you go to those aforementioned forums as that is where the ?chit hits the fan? as a general rule. Please keep in mind that ?the rules? apply there also.

Another rule on this board is that anything posted must be DR related. The only areas that this rule is not hard and set is in the "Dominicans Abroad" forum, as that was envisioned as a means for Dominicans to communicate and help each other outside of country, and the "Clown Bin".

I can see that you misunderstood that which I posted earlier and I will take the blame for that as I seemed to have failed to use enough periods in my paragraph to demonstrate what isn't allowed;

We never talk "race"......... We never talk "religion".......... These two subjects don't need to be talked about in a "negative tone" they just aren't discussed.....

I would now like to direct you to your post #94 where you said, "i'll bring my intellect to a place like DR1.com instead". It is only because of your use of the word 'intellect' rather then ?I like your board and will therefore post on it? that makes me want to make a comment. In your most recent post you state, ?but i type coherant enough so that you understand? and this is very true because for those of us that are native English speakers and some that aren?t know that the (i) should be (I) and (coherent) should be (coherent) but we understand what you are trying to say.

If you are going to demonstrate your audacity by using the words ?my intellect? then please demonstrate that inferred intellect by using proper English. I am only telling you this because many members on this board are very intelligent but they don?t gasconade their intellect but it becomes apparent in that which they post and how it is presented in its grammatical form.

It is only when boasting isn?t followed by adherence that I make note.

Rick

 

[elgregro]

understood.

i know that what i said about this thread has already been established but i also brought up a couple of new points

- how i see the word "West Indian" is used.

- what people feel about this, or whatever feeling i pick up from them over time on other issues. the state of this ignorant youth.


before i had posted my initial post, i stopped at about page 5 because i saw nothing of what i stated. you guys started talking about DNA and mitochondria and i was like WHOA WHOA! lol i assumed the rest would be a debate trying to figure out what it means instead of somebody simply saying that all the West Indies is, is a geographic area, therefore making Dominicans West Indian. thats why i felt the need to post then(after about page 5)


i will now go read whatever i missed.

 

[Rick Snyder]

Elgregro,

Please bear in mind that the true purpose of this board is to supply information concerning the DR to those that are trying to seek out such information due to their plans to visit or live here. It is also used by those that have an interest in such things as history and such within the DR and is used quite extensively by people such as me that live here but wish to know a better way to do something and we rely on other members here and abroad who have the necessary experience on the subject in question.

This does not mean that a person that has never been here can not participate but it does limit their input due to their lack of knowledge on anything DR related. On the supplying of useful information for our members it is imperative that the information supplied is factual and not ?opinion? related and therefore requires input from those that are cognizance in that which is being discussed.

As I stated earlier this forum, ?Dominicans Abroad?, was designed as a helping tool for those Dominicans living or preparing to live outside of their country. I, who is not Dominican, can understand how a Dominican living in say Nantucket may wish to find a hair salon that would cater to a Dominican or may wish to learn if there are other Dominicans in their part of the world so that they my have a friend that can relate in culture and language with them. This forum gives them the opportunity to seek out that which they are searching for.

For the longest time this forum had no moderator so such a subject like ?West Indians? ended up being posted here. Such a subject should have been started in the ?General? or ?Debate? forums due to the bellicosity of the subject matter. The majority of the posts are opinion oriented and as the published ?facts? on the subject matter contradict each other there will never be a consensus as to the true meaning of the words. Due to that fact and the fact that the true definition of the words have no bearing on living here or elsewhere further validates its ineffectual service to this board.

I as the moderator of this forum have the option of moving this thread to the ?Debate? forum but as I am a moderator there also I?ve decided to let it remain here in the hopes it will die out or till such a time that it becomes unbearable with violations of established rules at which time I will close it.

We that are moderators, I hope I don?t get in trouble with this, occasionally allow a contentious subject to enter our forums in that it allows opinions and different viewpoints to be expressed. This seems to have a tendency for better understanding of human nature and allows members to establish a better understanding of fellow posters. It is when those contentious subjects turn into belligerence with name calling and such that we try to quickly terminate the discussion.

It is because of the disputatiousness of ?religion? and ?race? that those two subjects are not allowed on this board in any forum.

Once again I apologize for deviating from the OP but as I think this thread is played out I really see no harm in my actions.

Oh, another way for a thread to come to an end is for the OP to request that the thread be closed.

Rick