Rule of Law or Rule of the person-which is more important?

[bob saunders]

Johne, to the topic and to the point - about the example of foreclosures. This may be difficult to even contemplate, but I think that if one lends money to another, you need to be lending in such a way to assure that your loan gets paid back. I think this is a personal responsibility, and not a legal one. Because there still is a sense of community, and a smaller community, it seems to be easier to take personal responsibility for what one does ... everyone knows where you are anyway.

The Dominican community is filled with people that failed to pay off their personal loans, just like every society. What do you suggest for a remedy to ensure loans are paid back, if you are not going to use legal(liens or foreclosure) or illegal(strongarm) methods. Personally what would/have you done. The only surefire method is "to be not a borrower nor lender be" I think Ben Franklin said that.

 

[johne]

Ben F.

No--Hamlet--Shakespeare

 

[cobraboy]

I'm not sure why the lender should be blamed when the borrower, who willingly entered into a contract with the lender without coercion, fails to unilaterally uphold the terms of the contract.

I'm just a simple country boy. Somebody needs to 'splain it to me...

 

[johne]

What options are we left with?

Johne, to the topic and to the point - about the example of foreclosures. This may be difficult to even contemplate, but I think that if one lends money to another, you need to be lending in such a way to assure that your loan gets paid back. I think this is a personal responsibility, and not a legal one. I think we've made our society overly complicated by all kinds of insurances, assurances and instruments by which we try and ensure that our loan gets paid back. (And we know what happens if we start trading in all those worthless assurances and insurances - worthless paper basically with no intrinsic value.)

The Dominican way is quite interesting here .. (No, no, I don't mean we all need to hire Vinnie to break some knees:laugh Because there still is a sense of community, and a smaller community, it seems to be easier to take personal responsibility for what one does ... everyone knows where you are anyway.

Once you take out the options of "busting kneecaps" and/or "legal" remedies
you are left with (1) following the bible that goes on about forgiving the debt..he isyour brother kind of stuff or just walking around sucking your thumb saying "what a smuck I am". Neither of those alternatives work for me.So.... over to you,how do I put food food on the table? I'm starving!

JOHN

BTW--they are not "worthless papers" if you know how to use them.

 

[cobraboy]

BTW--they are not "worthless papers" if you know how to use them.

True. A mortgage is a collateralized indebtedness. If you don't pay, the lender takes possession of the property. It's in the agreement.

I'd be surprised if even a kind person such as Chris would keep a satellite internet connection on if the bill hadn't been paid in a while.

It's just business.

 

[Chris]

Language, at least, has evolved.

We will try to be thankful for that.

 

[Chris]

True. A mortgage is a collateralized indebtedness. If you don't pay, the lender takes possession of the property. It's in the agreement.

I'd be surprised if even a kind person such as Chris would keep a satellite internet connection on if the bill hadn't been paid in a while.

It's just business.

Cobraboy, here is a little more business. My interaction on the site and my business usually does not overlap. This is fact for most other business men and women on the board. The fact that you asked for and received a quote from our business is outside of the scope of this discussion.

The fact that you handed out negative 'color squares' and made a very silly comment with some words like 'perhaps you'll not do business with us' has just done you incalculable harm to the rest of the of the businessmen and women on the board. Usually I would not make something like this public in order to save you from yourself. But you don't want to be saved. Usually our business dealings remain very private. This is a lesson that you don't seem to have learnt yet. Learn it, or you'll not be trusted in the gringo business community. We're a small community and we don't let our business dealings interfere with what we want to chat about on the site. Many of us use this site as light comic relief or to vent or to complain or to tell a joke.

Cobraboy, you wanna do business in the DR, start acting like a business man, or shall I use the 'other' generic term, a business woman. I'm going to tell you this again. This site can make or break your business. Learn the rules, both the written and the unwritten ones.

 

[Lambada]

I don't condone sexist language and am having a hard time realising we are still dealing with this one 40+ years after I thought the issue of inclusive/exclusive language had been made clear for all to see. However, nor do I necessarily equate sexist language with sexist conduct. I've met cobraboy & he is not a sexist male. And I have very developed antennae on this one!

I can, however, understand women taking offence. The truly liberated female would have posted her complaint on the thread, so perhaps we all have some way to go on this one?

I have no idea what cobra has or hasn't been up to, nor which rules he has violated and I do not need to know. But it feels to me like some personal issues which I don't understand are being raised here and I wonder if this would best be dealt with via PMs? Or maybe this is meant to be an example of either the rule of the person or the rule of law (desperately trying to get back to topic here )?

Overall, I am left feeling confused by the way this thread has gone. Since I like to believe I'm not stupid I'm wondering whether this is just me or if others are similarly confused?

 

[cobraboy]

**********

 

[El sabelot?]

I don't condone sexist language and am having a hard time realising we are still dealing with this one 40+ years after I thought the issue of inclusive/exclusive language had been made clear for all to see.

This morning, while I drove to my boring job, a woman on the radio referred to herself as "the chairman of the Houston Lifestock Show and Rodeo BBQ competition."

Cynically, I tried to make a connection: speech plus activity, but it's not fair, I know.

 

[johne]

Captian, I see land!

We drifted a little left and bobbed a little right but that's normal for debates and dr1 so.....now that that's behind us "Forward we go''. Isn't that what LF says? Hey, and look how he's moving right along on his tren.

JOHN

 

[Lambada]

Cynically, I tried to make a connection: speech plus activity, but it's not fair, I know.

:laugh::laugh: I guess in her line of work she'll be used to 'husbanding' her resources............ It's everywhere, isn't it? And of course the original 'rules' were written by men so..............back to topic (apologies johne, not trying to hijack).

 

[johne]

Who gets the last word in before

we "Move Forward?"

 

[A.Hidalgo]

We pretty much know what "rule of law" is, but may be we need to try to clear up what we mean by "rule of the person"...seems to me each of the 6 plus billion folks on this planet will have their own unique shall we say interpretation. Help me clear this up.

 

[Chris]

The truly liberated female would have posted her complaint on the thread, so perhaps we all have some way to go on this one?

There has been private discussion about this for a while. It seemed too tedious or odious to even bother saying anything, until it really got in my face. My first mention about this was quite mild you know - see hereunder and ... there were four other paras germane to the topic. So, the truly liberated women did speak out, albeit in one voice.

"(Disclaimer, the bolding is not because I am politically correct. It is because I am not men, I am women and by definition, the poster excluded me and my type from his discussion. That is kinda rude. I don't know if this is deliberate or whether he is simply quoting from a set of literature that was written in the style but I thought to let the poster know that that is rude and not something that we want to encourage here.)"

The result of that quite mild paragraph was explosive. Not even one comment based on the topic of this thread. I received everything from hate letters to scornful comments on that thing that makes the colorful boxes. That is all fine and part of the deal. What is not fine, is the comment that 'perhaps I won't use your business', on the colorful boxes feedback thing on the DR1 in the context of a philosophical discussion. I found this cowardly in the extreme and I know with a certainty that a gringo businessman in the DR will have a miserable life with this attitude to fellow business people. I can think of two examples that we've seen through the years. I personally would hate to see another one.

In the context of what we are talking about, i.e., the Rule of Law on the one hand, or the rule of personal responsibility on the other, I seem to be with Chiri thus far: "Language, at least, has evolved."

Hope you are clearer about where we've been. Now I hope we can get to where we are going to. I've just seen A.Hidalgo's comment. Yes, we need some further clarification about 'rule of the person'.

 

[Chirimoya]

Some may also have refrained from commenting out of respect for the rules about hijacking the thread, and a reluctance to act out a battle that as far as most are concerned was fought and won by our elders and betters a generation ago.

Japanese soldiers stranded on Pacific islands for decades thinking WW2 is still raging spring to mind, for some reason...

 

[cobraboy]

What is not fine, is the comment that 'perhaps I won't use your business', on the colorful boxes feedback thing on the DR1 in the context of a philosophical discussion. I found this cowardly in the extreme and I know with a certainty that a gringo businessman in the DR will have a miserable life with this attitude to fellow business people. I can think of two examples that we've seen through the years. I personally would hate to see another one.

Why, Chris, for someone so enlightened, kind, understanding, intellectually centered, politically correct and, compassionate, you sound like you're making veiled threats.

Well, so a few folks say in emails to me anyway.

How could this be?

 

[MommC]

I guess this means I'm a man -

No, this was meant to you specifically. The following is more general.

I'm going to say again .. if someone uses 'man' or 'men', it is very difficult to figure out that I (and other women) should read 'mankind'. It really is impossible. I've had a number of .. uhm .. enquiries from women about this for some months now. They read something like this: "When is someone going to tell that XXX XXXX that the word 'man' signifies a human being with two b@lls and a d!ck" and 'men' means more than one of those." So, hence I addressed this unpopular issue. Believe me, it is better this way LOL.

Perhaps you fellows will now understand that 'mankind' is perhaps a better way to go about this thing and the topic can continue.

and not a woman because I've got a d!ck and two b@lls (even tho' they belong to my DH I consider them mine!). BTW I've also been told many times that I've got @balls based on some of the things I've done/said.

I am Human
I am Mankind
I am Woman

And man am I stunned that anyone, anywhere, who speaks the English language could be upset at the language used on this thread.
Perhaps, those who PM'd the moderator, need to take a reading comprehension course, so they will be able to comprehend the meaning of the wriiten word in context of the discussion at hand.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING as being 'politically' correct, just being dumb axxed hyper sensitive!

 

[cobraboy]

and not a woman because I've got a d!ck and two b@lls (even tho' they belong to my DH I consider them mine!). BTW I've also been told many times that I've got @balls based on some of the things I've done/said.

I am Human
I am Mankind
I am Woman

And man am I stunned that anyone, anywhere, who speaks the English language could be upset at the language used on this thread.
Perhaps, those who PM'd the moderator, need to take a reading comprehension course, so they will be able to comprehend the meaning of the wriiten word in context of the discussion at hand.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING as being 'politically' correct, just being dumb axxed hyper sensitive!

Thank you. Some sanity. My words were in no way meant to denigrate any woman. I used the term "man" in the historic, collective sense.

Methinks there is another agenda at work. Methinks the gun had been loaded and trigger spring loosened, just waiting for an opportunity...any opportunity...to use it.

I officially feel stalked...:surprised:bunny:

 

[Chris]

Thank you. Some sanity. My words were in no way meant to denigrate any woman. I used the term "man" in the historic, collective sense.

It is amazing .. why did you not say so then? Why did you wait so long to say something so simple? Kindly could we continue this discussion now.