One Island, One Country.

[badpiece33]

Dude read it I wrote it in capital letters, we are NOT BETTER, but we are a totally different culture. It is just a fact. My family comes from Santiago and most of them are still there, and I know the city very well. If you know it as well as I do you know in the last few years it has had a really bad problems with the Haitian women and kids begging in the street corners. They are not working. It may seem like hard work to stay all day in the hot sun asking for money but is not call work. I could really recommend a couple of books for you on why most Dominicans feel this way.We Dominicans have work real hard to obtain the SEMBLANCE of Democracy and Peace we have now to think of joining with a total failed state. You know I could understand why Americans and other nations would want us to be one island one state, but only here have I seen so called Dominicans utter those words. It is a pathetic lack of your own people as ugly as it may seem.

You tell em like it is. I love your posts

 

[pepehany]

I know what you mean when you talk about "pensiones" I've been on person in some of those places looking for a Haitian guy that I used to contract to do some contruction and home maintenance work for me. that is not fair the way those people lives, some time they are twenty of them living all together in a small room without any sanitary conditions. That is the reason for what some Dominicans protect against those who make money renting to the poor Haitians in the DR.

JJ

No bachata, PENCIONES are low rent but nice and clean one room apartments, what you are trying to say is BATEYS. Those are the horrible housing units build by the sugar plantation owners the most famous being the Billinis. This family came from Italy one to two hundred years ago. They are one of the richest families in DR all from sugar production. This family are real modern slave owners. They pay to traffic the Haitians from their home and bring them to the Bateys, the conditions are not fit for animals, and pay them very low wages.Most Dominicans would not work the sugar fields or construction anymore unless as capatas, or foreman, so they need the Haitians. My problem is with the byproduct of this situations being the over population of Haitian illegal immigrants.

 

[NALs]

Hm... something fishy is going on here.

Pepehany, please explain the following:

In need of explanation part 1:

My family comes from Santiago and most of them are still there

Ok, so you are Santiaguero or maybe...

I am a Dominican from New York out S.F. Macoris. (Source)

Hm... interesting.

I hope you know that its impossible to be from Santiago and from San Francisco de Macoris. Please explain.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In need of explanation part 2:

No bachata, PENCIONES are low rent but nice and clean one room apartments

There is no such thing called penciones, there are pensiones though, so please explain why you insist on misspelling such a simple word after Bachata having posted a response with the correct spelling.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In need of explanation 3:

Those are the horrible housing units build by the sugar plantation owners the most famous being the Billinis.

The Billinis have never been in the sugar industry, but the Vicinis have. In fact, the Vicinis are the largest sugar producers after the Fanjul family and the government. The bateyes at the plantations owned by the Vicinis are among the best kept bateyes in the entire country, they are not involved in human trafficking, in fact, they even offer periodic medical and dental checkup to all of their employees. Their bateyes also have the best schools of any bateye community in the nation all thanks to the Vicinis.

They have been unfairly attacked by the anti-Dominicans, often time using lies to attack one of the most prominent family of the DR.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is only a small example of the many things in your posts that don't make sense and are contradictory.

From the look of things, you don't know if you are from Santiago or San Francisco de Macoris, don't know the correct way to spell pensiones, don't know the difference between the Billinis and the Vicinis and quite a few more things that I'll reserve if more proof is needed.

So, I'll ask you the following question and I expect a truthful answer:

Are you even Dominican? Are you a Haitian posing as a Dominican? Are you a non-Dominican and non-Haitian posing as a Dominican?

If you say you are Dominican, then why are there some serious contradictions in very basic and fundamental things such as the town of origin. For someone that is attempting to come through as the "all knowledgeable" of all things Dominican-Haitian, why would you not know the difference between the Vicinis and the Billinis?

You seem to be presenting a Dominicans are evil against Haitians mantra here, while covering such obvious attempts by starting and ending every post with attempts to prove your "Dominican" identity.

There is something fishy here.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My guess is that you are either not Dominican at all. You're probably someone posing as one in order to gain credibility while you use some sort of reverse psychology to present Dominicans as evil in this forum.

I hope I'm wrong, but you sure do sound weird.... for a Dominican.

-NALs

 

[pepehany]

Hm... something fishy is going on here.

Pepehany, please explain the following:

In need of explanation part 1:


Ok, so you are Santiaguero or maybe...


Hm... interesting.

I hope you know that its impossible to be from Santiago and from San Francisco de Macoris. Please explain.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In need of explanation part 2:


There is no such thing called penciones, there are pensiones though, so please explain why you insist on misspelling such a simple word after Bachata having posted a response with the correct spelling.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In need of explanation 3:


The Billinis have never been in the sugar industry, but the Vicinis have. In fact, the Vicinis are the largest sugar producers after the Fanjul family and the government. The bateyes at the plantations owned by the Vicinis are among the best kept bateyes in the entire country, they are not involved in human trafficking, in fact, they even offer periodic medical and dental checkup to all of their employees. Their bateyes also have the best schools of any bateye community in the nation all thanks to the Vicinis.

They have been unfairly attacked by the anti-Dominicans, often time using lies to attack one of the most prominent family of the DR.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is only a small example of the many things in your posts that don't make sense and are contradictory.

From the look of things, you don't know if you are from Santiago or San Francisco de Macoris, don't know the correct way to spell pensiones, don't know the difference between the Billinis and the Vicinis and quite a few more things that I'll reserve if more proof is needed.

So, I'll ask you the following question and I expect a truthful answer:

Are you even Dominican? Are you a Haitian posing as a Dominican? Are you a non-Dominican and non-Haitian posing as a Dominican?

If you say you are Dominican, then why are there some serious contradictions in very basic and fundamental things such as the town of origin. For someone that is attempting to come through as the "all knowledgeable" of all things Dominican-Haitian, why would you not know the difference between the Vicinis and the Billinis?

You seem to be presenting a Dominicans are evil against Haitians mantra here, while covering such obvious attempts by starting and ending every post with attempts to prove your "Dominican" identity.

There is something fishy here.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My guess is that you are either not Dominican at all. You're probably someone posing as one in order to gain credibility while you use some sort of reverse psychology to present Dominicans as evil in this forum.

I hope I'm wrong, but you sure do sound weird.... for a Dominican.

-NALs

Well NALS I know it sounds weird, and I do recognize and admire your are very knowledgeable about Dominican History. First "penciones", "pensiones" look at the time I wrote those I am surprise that you found so few mistakes in my grammar.
My family on my father's side comes from Licey al Medio, on my mother's side the other side of Santiago La Cienega I was born in Moca. I lived in Salcedo 70-78 (hate the place,pass by never visit) 78 I was brought to US as a child. I went school in the US and did 4 years in the NAVY, Pacific and Atlantic Fleet (ShellbacK). We getting to weird soon, not yet.
Had no interest in my own Dominican background, hence some of the confusion you perceive, until 1995 I joined the Partido Revolucionario Dominicano in NYC as an activist and fundraiser under a group mentored by Vicente Sanches Baret. Long story short when Hipolito Mejia won I was given my favorite job ever at Customs at International Airport Las Americas. Married a girl from San Francisco were I live most of the year and I love that town so much that I consider myself being from San Francisco de Macoris. So your right on the weird side but I am Dominican.
Now this post was started about a Dominican asking if Dominican Republic and Haiti should be one island one state or something. I am not very objective on this issue, and my only knowledge on this issue is mostly my day to day run ins with Haitians in S. Francisco, Santiago and Villa Trina if you know that place, but specially Villa Trina.( You could find the specific Haitian incident in Villa Trina in Youtube that was family related.)
You are very knowledgeable and perceptive but come on NALs as smart as you seem you are saying that any Bateyes are best kept? as compare to what the Bateyes in South African mines?

 

[NALs]

You are very knowledgeable and perceptive but come on NALs as smart as you seem you are saying that any Bateyes are best kept? as compare to what the Bateyes in South African mines?

There are bateyes and then there are bateyes. Many are no different from poor Dominican rural communities, many are in better condition and with more services than poor Dominican rural communities, and others are disgusting. The latter being the bateyes in government owned plantations that have been abandoned due to the sugar crisis.

The bateyes on plantations owned by the Vicinis and the Central Romana (aka, the Fanjuls) are among the best kept one's and best attended of all the bateyes in the country.

The bateyes presented in the anti-Dominican and anti-Vicini propaganda videos are the abandoned bateyes in abandoned state owned plantations where those people were left to their own devises and due to a lack of community spirit among them, they have devolved into what can only be considered a human pocilga.

Can't blame the Vicinis for someone else's problems.

-NALs

 

[pkaide1]

What about if the US take over Canada, since your culture is so close. Let's see, both of you speak the same language, have almost the same type of education. Canada almost always support the US in any bs endeavor around the world. The US is adopting the Liberal bs mentality that many Canadians have.

And by the way take Mexico with you too.

 

[Tor]

There is already way to many Haitians in the DR in my opinion. I realy hope they start deporting some of them, and stregthen the border control. Sure there is many nice people among them, but there realy is a lot of trash also, especially here in the Sosua area.

 

[Ezequiel]

There is already way to many Haitians in the DR in my opinion. I realy hope they start deporting some of them, and stregthen the border control. Sure there is many nice people among them, but there realy is a lot of trash also, especially here in the Sosua area.

I don't agree with mass deportation of Haitians, it's not like they are receiving Food Stamp from the DR government, the DR needs to see that many Dominican citizens are in the same situation in the U.S. and the European Union.

Seeing a lot Haitians in the DR doesn't bother me personally nor my family, and it don't bother my friends in the DR either.

When i was in Highschool in the DR, my math teacher told us she was afraid of Haitians, because, they scared her when she was a little kid, that Haitians were going to come and eat her every time she misbehaved, She told us she was not against them and she wanted to get rid of that fear she has of Haitians, other than that she didn't care about them being in the DR, because, they just looking to feed their families.

 

[ExtremeR]

I don't agree with mass deportation of Haitians, it's not like they are receiving Food Stamp from the DR government, the DR needs to see that many Dominican citizens are in the same situation in the U.S. and the European Union.
QUOTE]

In my point of view, those endless haitians women who are begging in the biggest intersections of the Cities should be deported along with their rented children. Those who are working in constructions and bateyes would stay..

 

[bachata]

When i was in Highschool in the DR, my math teacher told us she was afraid of Haitians, because, they scared her when she was a little kid, that Haitians were going to come and eat her every time she misbehaved, She told us she was not against them and she wanted to get rid of that fear she has of Haitians, other than that she didn't care about them being in the DR, because, they just looking to feed their families.

I can remember my grandfather scaring me, using the same story, about a bad Haitian who come on night and get the children for eating them later.. aaaiii Que miedooo me daba esa historia!!!!

JJ

 

[pedrochemical]

but there really is a lot of trash also, especially here in the Sosua area.

Speak for yourself!

Trashy people in Sosua is not a Haitian problem.
Trashy minds are prevalent among all races and nations in Sosua - that is why trashy people move there - to be with other trashy people.

I would just point out that this does not include Rocky or any other respectable people who could get me banned again. Also I have many non-trashy friends Dominican, Haitian and other in Sosua.irate:

 

[Exxtol]

In need of explanation 3:

The Billinis have never been in the sugar industry, but the Vicinis have. In fact, the Vicinis are the largest sugar producers after the Fanjul family and the government. The bateyes at the plantations owned by the Vicinis are among the best kept bateyes in the entire country, they are not involved in human trafficking, in fact, they even offer periodic medical and dental checkup to all of their employees. Their bateyes also have the best schools of any bateye community in the nation all thanks to the Vicinis.

They have been unfairly attacked by the anti-Dominicans, often time using lies to attack one of the most prominent family of the DR.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nals,

Your statement above about the Vicini's is a tad misleading. While they have in fact taken recent strides to eradicate the dilapidated conditions of their bateyes, lets not pretend this has been a long-standing concern or "tradition" of the Vicini bateyes. In fact, this has been a fairly recent phenomenom stemming from pressure from NGO's and the US government. That said, I commend the Vicini's for attempting to make a past wrong, right, and for the recent renovations to their bateyes.

But, unfairly attacked? I don't think so. It comes with the territory.

--Exxtol

 

[NALs]

Nals,

Your statement above about the Vicini's is a tad misleading. While they have in fact taken recent strides to eradicate the dilapidated conditions of their bateyes, lets not pretend this has been a long-standing concern or "tradition" of the Vicini bateyes. In fact, this has been a fairly recent phenomenom stemming from pressure from NGO's and the US government. That said, I commend the Vicini's for attempting to make a past wrong, right, and for the recent renovations to their bateyes.

But, unfairly attacked? I don't think so. It comes with the territory.

--Exxtol

That's nonsense.

The Vicini's have among the most progressives when it came to bateyes and treatment of their Haitian employees.

In fact, the employees in Vicini owned plantations already had access to fully staffed clinics, they were paid in cash, and a host of other benefits prior to 2007, the year Hartley and company lashed out on the Vicinis with his film. Following that film came the pressure from the US and the UN (remember the "delegation" that arrived to "inspect" the bateyes ).

The Vicini's have not changed anything in the way they treat their employees, so don't go around claiming that they are reacting to the added pressure. They already had offered such benefits way before the "pressure" was added in late 2007.

-NALs

 

[Exxtol]

That's nonsense.

The Vicini's have among the most progressives when it came to bateyes and treatment of their Haitian employees.

In fact, the employees in Vicini owned plantations already had access to fully staffed clinics, they were paid in cash, and a host of other benefits prior to 2007, the year Hartley and company lashed out on the Vicinis with his film. Following that film came the pressure from the US and the UN (remember the "delegation" that arrived to "inspect" the bateyes ).

The Vicini's have not changed anything in the way they treat their employees, so don't go around claiming that they are reacting to the added pressure. They already had offered such benefits way before the "pressure" was added in late 2007.

-NALs

Nals,

I thought of posting a detailed response to your "nonsense" but thought better of it. How can you possibly substantiate the following?

"In fact, the employees in Vicini owned plantations already had access to fully staffed clinics, they were paid in cash, and a host of other benefits prior to 2007".

Really Nals, really? I'm not saying they're all bad, but they certainly aren't all good.

--Exxtol

 

[leodabull]

Damn, I am so tired of this. I mean really.

Ok, this is a very sore subject since as a Dominican educated in the states this constitutes a number of opinions that can be regarded as ?mindsets?. First off AlActor this earth will not be here in the next 2,3 or 4 hundred years. That?s another topic. HOWEVER, Haiti, well how can I say it without dissing any Hiatians...You know what the hell with that. Haitianos go home to your land and regrow what you destroyed so you can EAT and regrow your once existing forrest so the rain water can help reproduce it and can stop polluting your rivers and oceans from all the soot that runs down since hence there is no forrest trees to stop and absorve. Also Haitianos STOP HAVING 10,11,12, or 20 f***?n babies so they can grow up to only starve as they r doing today. Sure their is hunger here in my Dominicana just like there is hunger in Harlem, and probably on the upper east side. Remember someone is skipping their dinner so they medicate themselves in the US. Forget about that thats aonther subject. Damn! I?m so f***?n ****ed right now. I hate this subject but I got a beef with it. We here is DR are struggling as we have been for many years. Struggling to eat and have a roof over our heads. Do u think I want to share my half of the country with people who would tear it apart as they did their own land? HELL NO!!! Listen this is something the US, France and the rest of the developed nations would love to see happen. They keep accusing us of mistreatment of the Haitian but they come and get free medical attention which has depleted those resources for my own people. They make their own barrios and sell their children and woman as well as drugs and arms. I?ve seen this first hand. I?ve been to Port au Prince and it reeks of pure *hit ok? There is a puppet president who cannot control the various warlords that control different sects of the country. Who are the ones that really run the country not this jive turkey the UN put in. Come on people Haiti has been top news for the past 50 yrs. Dont act shocked now. And the US making like PR. Hahahahaha! What clown said that. You jack*** dont u know the developed nations would love for Haiti to disapper from this planet if we DR dont take it in. The Haitians have been made into selfish people because they did not get up and wipe the dust off them when it got rough, when it was time to rebuild and re'educate. No instead they got use to hand outs from DR and the rest of the world. Now they screw their undernourished brains out and wait for more hand outs. Why? Because just like Americas welfare program, the poor were trained to just sit back and recieve money, food stamps, and medicare and have babies, babies, and more f***?n babies. Hundreds of billions of dollars gone to waste instead of Education. Same s**t in Haiti. Since I?m a fair guy I will admit the massive amount of corruption at the border between both countries. U see, a Dominican soldier makes crap monthly but stick him at the border with several hundred Haitianos with thousands of pesos to offer them just to get in and what do u think will happen? This is a third world country also. Exactly!!! So do me a favor Haitianos go home a clean it up and put it to run the way it can be made to run. For your peoples sake........................................Leodabull.

 

[pedrochemical]

I guess your life really might be that black and white. But that doesn't give you the excuse to be so retarded in your outlook. You said you were educated in the states - I beg to differ - if you had been educated anywhere at all you would be ashamed of that last childish little rant.
My Turn....
Let's try the 'Day without a Haitian' test in the Dominican Republic. Uneducated, manual labourer types like yourself might have to crawl from under that Banana tree and actually do a day's work rather than cheat their multiple children by multiple women out of any kind of a future by thinking no further than the end of their dxck. Understandably we have short collective memories. Just 6 years ago the Dominican Republic was a failed state. 30 years ago Haiti was the 'Pearl of the Caribbean'. Let us see where we are in another 30 years.
You will still be driving your moto-concho ripping of tourists as a matter of national pride - your many fatherless children working the discotheques, unable to read or write will still whining and bitching about how these rich Haitians come over here taking all the best jobs and women.
Thankfully you are in a minority.
Please do not breed any more as people like me have to pay taxes to send financial aid to your little country - also, being good looking and
of dubious morals or being able to swing a baseball bat does not make yours a great country.
Many other things do.
Good luck with your life on this island.
You and your family are going to need it.
GO AND READ SOME BOOKS!!

 

[pedrochemical]

By the way, that was aimed at 'LoadOfBull' - the kind of moron who gives The Dominican Republic a bad name.

 

[Hillbilly]

FYI: Pedrochemical_ Haiti was NEVER the pearl of the Caribbean...Never! It has been a failed state for a century or more. That is just history. Of course, it had to have been less of a failed state because there were less inhabitants, but only because of that.

What you saw in the diatribe by leodabull was how a Dominican "really" feels about Haitians and Hait?. Again, this is a general feeling as expressed. This does not mean that individuals are not well treated or that friendships are not created, they are. This does not negate the economic necessities of having Haitian workers in the Dominican Republic, it does not. But what "Leodabull" said is echoed by millions here. Most would not be so vocal, but the sentiment is there.

HB

 

[Mr. Lu]

....

Ok, this is a very sore subject since as a Dominican educated in the states this constitutes a number of opinions that can be regarded as ?mindsets?. First off AlActor this earth will not be here in the next 2,3 or 4 hundred years. That?s another topic. HOWEVER, Haiti, well how can I say it without dissing any Hiatians...You know what the hell with that. Haitianos go home to your land and regrow what you destroyed so you can EAT and regrow your once existing forrest so the rain water can help reproduce it and can stop polluting your rivers and oceans from all the soot that runs down since hence there is no forrest trees to stop and absorve. Also Haitianos STOP HAVING 10,11,12, or 20 f***?n babies so they can grow up to only starve as they r doing today. Sure their is hunger here in my Dominicana just like there is hunger in Harlem, and probably on the upper east side. Remember someone is skipping their dinner so they medicate themselves in the US. Forget about that thats aonther subject. Damn! I?m so f***?n ****ed right now. I hate this subject but I got a beef with it. We here is DR are struggling as we have been for many years. Struggling to eat and have a roof over our heads. Do u think I want to share my half of the country with people who would tear it apart as they did their own land? HELL NO!!! Listen this is something the US, France and the rest of the developed nations would love to see happen. They keep accusing us of mistreatment of the Haitian but they come and get free medical attention which has depleted those resources for my own people. They make their own barrios and sell their children and woman as well as drugs and arms. I?ve seen this first hand. I?ve been to Port au Prince and it reeks of pure *hit ok? There is a puppet president who cannot control the various warlords that control different sects of the country. Who are the ones that really run the country not this jive turkey the UN put in. Come on people Haiti has been top news for the past 50 yrs. Dont act shocked now. And the US making like PR. Hahahahaha! What clown said that. You jack*** dont u know the developed nations would love for Haiti to disapper from this planet if we DR dont take it in. The Haitians have been made into selfish people because they did not get up and wipe the dust off them when it got rough, when it was time to rebuild and re'educate. No instead they got use to hand outs from DR and the rest of the world. Now they screw their undernourished brains out and wait for more hand outs. Why? Because just like Americas welfare program, the poor were trained to just sit back and recieve money, food stamps, and medicare and have babies, babies, and more f***?n babies. Hundreds of billions of dollars gone to waste instead of Education. Same s**t in Haiti. Since I?m a fair guy I will admit the massive amount of corruption at the border between both countries. U see, a Dominican soldier makes crap monthly but stick him at the border with several hundred Haitianos with thousands of pesos to offer them just to get in and what do u think will happen? This is a third world country also. Exactly!!! So do me a favor Haitianos go home a clean it up and put it to run the way it can be made to run. For your peoples sake........................................Leodabull.

Replace every mention of Haiti with the word Dominican Republic, and every reference of Haitian for a reference to a Dominican and this is how they feel about Dominicans in the US and in Europe. Sad but true.





If this is how "Dominicans" "really" feel, I'd rather not be associated with such a group of people. This "we are better then them attitude" is a social pollutant. They might be darker, that doesn't make Dominicans better.




Mr. Lu

 

[Mr. Lu]

.....

But what "Leodabull" said is echoed by millions here. Most would not be so vocal, but the sentiment is there.

HB

Though millions would argue in favor of Leodabull's comments, would you say that million think contrarily, yet would not be so vocal?






Mr. Lu