2 years to go.

[bilijou]

R Snyder, I doubt a Constitution without any loopholes will do anything. The problem with the Constitution in DR is not the loopholes, but lack of authenticity. Its been broken and modified so much that it is no longer binding.

Living in the US, I see the disparity between the American and Dominican concept of the Constitution. In the US, it is the law of the land. In DR, its merely a political tool at the disposal of the current administration.

 

[El Vegano]

It will be a long, slow process.

Once again, to those naysayers finding fault with President Fernandez's corruption fighting possibilities, it is important to remember that there are no better alternatives, unfortunately. Fernandez is the most 'atypical' of Dominican presidents due to his upbringing, education and generation.

No one else brings better possibilities, including the right's favorite, Candelier, who has no regard or respect for individual, human or civil rights. Sure, he will reduce crime and corruption, perhaps, but at what price?

Fernandez has a long, slow process, and very much uphill, since some near him and most of the Dominican society don't give a second thought to 'make it' by influence-peddling, awarding Government contracts outright and downright stealing. Of course he could do a better job of trying to control things, perhaps, but it's not as easy from his position as it looks to us from ours, for sure.

Let's hope he makes some headway for the sake of all of us who live here in the DR.

 

[Chris]

Let's hope he makes some headway for the sake of all of us who live here in the DR.

My initial question is around that 'hope'. I was hoping that someone could tell me we have a firmer foundation than hope... :laugh::laugh:

 

[Rick Snyder]

Hipocrito Mejia,

Let us take your response first and then follow in order.

When Leonel came to power in 1996 who did he have to help him run the country with its lopsided PRD congress? He didn’t have other intelligent foreign educated people (IFEP) such as I mentioned in my prior post offering their services to bring this country about. In the 1998 elections he didn’t have (IFEP) running for congress nor in the 2000, 2004 or the 2006 elections. And therein lays a major problem for this country. As long as the present “elite” are getting involved in politics you will have the same thing is happening or ‘history repeating itself’. With a limited cast to pick from I would suppose that Leonel is hoping to pick the lesser of two evils in his attempt to do the right thing.

If I were Dominican and president I would think it would go something like this:

“José now that I’m president I need some help, would you like to be my adviser? I know you have deep pockets but how about making them shallower and help me bring change about.”

“Rick, no problem, if you want to think you can change things with those a$$holes running congress then who am I to try to convince you otherwise. Sure, let’s see what we can do and yes I’ll steal less then before.”

Rick to himself, “Damn I wish I had some honest people that were interested in helping me”.

I don’t think that all the corruption that is going on is with the “blessing” of Leonel but rather, as I said before, the lesser of two evils.

In my 10 years here I have done a lot of research and studying on the DR and the Dominican people. One thing that I have found time and time again is that of all the Dominicans that have done the most good for this country through the centuries, and there have been a lot, have all lived and were educated in a foreign land and returned here to help their fellow Dominicans. I can trace this back to 1772 when Losé Núñez de Cáceres was born in Santo Domingo. Or the poet Pedro Mir born in 1913 in San Pedro de Macoris. And there are so many more. They all lived and some educated in another country and returned to their native country to help.

Bilijou,

I disagree with you as to what the DR constitution is. Here as in all countries it is the law of the land. The enforcement of the laws determines the importance of those laws. We are all aware of the general enforcement of laws that are conducted here. Be it throwing litter on the street to crimes against the security of the state and everything in between. And all of this brings us right back to the constitution and what it contains.

Chris,

I think there is a great possibility of positive change but it will require people to get involved and I’m not talking about the same old “elite”.

The constitutional reform is the pivot point for all this change. To understand this you must put some thought into the present constitution and what it says. Just to mention a few that jump out at me are Article 32, Art 24 para I (quanity?), Art 37 para 10, 21, Art 48 (Does this include all criminal cases committed by the police?), Art 85 para 2. There are more that I think the board members could find.

Rick

 

[CarpeDReam]

Industrial Revolution

Reading your posts, I couldn't help to think about the Industrial Revolution. It seems to me that any nation that is fastly developing has to deal with the same issues: crime, child labor, poverty, corruption, lack of education, etc. Though it is true that corruption is deeply embedded in dominican society, Leonel is the best domincan leader we can ask for; he's not perfect, but at least he has a vision of what the DR can be. It took small steps for the US and Europe to get to where they are: i.e. children under a certain age could no longer work; school is mandatory; harsher punishment for corrupt leaders; more checks and balances; cleaner society; more opportunities/work as well as investments, etc. The constitution needs to change for anything to take place. Some of you may think it's all symbolic, but at least something is being done from the top-down. I study business, and in numerous cases I've seen company's fail/strive because of the top boss; i.e. Home Depot sale's are falling and customer's are increasingly dissatisfied. This is because the new head in charge has a military mindset and does not place the customer as top priority; many of his employees have either been conditioned to think this way or have left (the "good" ones) and the new ones that are hired follow this mentality. I know it may be silly to compare a country to a company, but my point is, the more LF is against corruption and if his desire to fight it is sincere, the more officials and the "elite" would have to adapt to the times because for many people, it's not that they want to be corrupt, it's just the way to survive and as many of you said--they know no other way. I'm sure some of you had to pay customs just to let you leave the airport sometimes...this doesn't make you a bad person, it's just the way it is and it's hard to change anything from the bottom. But depending on how strong his policies are implemented, this mentality can have a domino effect (slow, yes, difficult, yes, but possible).

 

[RHM]

I am glad this thread was started. Personally, I have been let down by Fernandez.

What drives me crazy the most are his die-hard supporters who always seem to fall back on the "He's a lot better than Hipolito!" argument. Yeah? So are a lot of people. It's time to start seeing some tangible results. We've heard enough rhetoric.

Scandall

 

[Chris]

Scandall, I hope all the posters can keep it to a civil conversation all round, like over a beer or a coffee. I also feel kinda let down, you know. And I do realize it is stupid to even feel that way.

I guess having lived through the Hippo era, we did have a lot of hope. You're right. LF has been here before. He faces challenges, but he 'volunteered' for the job. There needs to be some action that is not just talk or chicken prices down a centavo or something. Anything that will make the average Dominican smile, or have a few more pesos in the pocket, or find it easier to find a business opportunity ... What should we look out for in terms of change?

 

[RHM]

What should we look out for in terms of change?

Excellent question. And hopefully it will stimulate some good answers.

What would "progress" look and feel like? And I'm not talking about economic numbers that mean nothing to the people.

I'll give it a shot as soon as I get back from dinner. A glass or two of wine will get me warmed up.

Scandall

 

[Rick Snyder]

Everyone, in my opinion, is missing the point and the point is that this is the Dominican Republic and everything within the DR must be done by Dominicans. It is great that the US and other countries are sounding off about corruption and education as this will have a tendency to cause those in power to want to bring change about but it is still up to the Dominicans to do it.

Everything depends on who is appointed to the positions of power. The first obstacle is that they must be Dominican and then the person must choose from what pool is available of people that wish to get involved. If you should appoint a person such as Señora Germán to run your department of education and like her predecessor has no inkling as to how to accomplish her job then what have you done other then make a bad situation worse.

I am positive that within the DR populace there are Dominicans that have children that have gone to the public school system here and would make a better attempt at running the education system here then those running it has been done for the last 10 years. Just as an example how about the mother of that 13 year old girl that last year graduated from high school as the youngest Dominican to do such. One of the reasons this young girl did such is because her mother is a teacher in the public sector and helped her daughter study and learn. I would think that this mother has a lot more experience then the people running the show.

You can’t have a person running your payroll if they don’t know how to add and subtract.

Rick

 

[Hipocrito Mejia]

There are plenty of people in the DR who are qualified and well prepared to help steer the country out of this mess, but it has to start from the top. LF needs to roll up his sleeves and first reform the justice system to a point where judges can not be bought. At that point, you start rounding up the big fish, including the ones from his own party and make examples out of them. Past and present government officials, judges, military personnel, police officers and whoever else has had their hand in the people's money for their own benefit.

There can not be any sacred cows, and no fear of repercussions from within or outside the country as to the consequenses of cleaning up the mess. If they start from the top, it would show the common person that the laws have to be respected because the country has changed its course to a path where everyone is held responsible and pays the price for breaking the laws regardless of how much money they have or who they know. The culture of exerting political and economic influence to get away with anything and everything has to stop, and the best way to do it is by bringing to a screeching halt!

 

[Hipocrito Mejia]

Rick, LF can not tolerate corruption in any form or quantity. To accept "I'll steal less than before" is not an option. To me, the only acceptable course of action is to take that government employee and make an example out of him/her by bringing him/her to justice and showing everyone else that corruption will not be tolerated on any level. It would go a long way to show the people of the DR that he's truly intent on putting an end to a culture that has seen corruption from their public officials as acceptable for so many years.

IMO, LF is failing at this and looking the other way at obvious instances of officials in his own administration dipping into the pot.

 

[Don Juan]

The contributors to this thread have made very important and sensible observations that, I think, are right-on when it comes to the reasons why corruption is so rampant in DR. I agree with: "culture, mindset, poverty, scofflaws, cronyism," etc. All good and valid reasons for it.... But, what can be done to eliminate it, or at least, reduce it? One, but certainly not, the only method is to do exactly what Leonel is doing. To wit: Stimulating the economy by reigning inflation, modernizing infrastructure, attracting foreign investment and just plain running the country in a very astute manner.
If LF or his successor can prosper the country further, it will have the means to pay its gov. "employees", (read: leaches) with enough $$ to at least reduce the need for them to shake down the rest of us.
The sad truth of the matter is that nobody that works for the gov. -except those at the very top- make enough to support a family and see the wresting (stealing) as par for the course and justifiable because "everyone else does it", and also know they can get away with it with impunity.
So, until DR can afford to pay livable wages and severely punish corruption simultaneously, the status quo will never change.

 

[Rick Snyder]

Hipocrito Mejia,

I agree with you 100% but in the same breath I must admit that before 16 Aug his hands are virtually tied and have been. The fact that the judicial branch of government is in a sorry state is a fact. The fact that the NP has their own court system for the supposed prosecution of crooked police is a classic example and one of the reasons I mentioned Article 48 of the Dominican constitution.

Your reference of “"I'll steal less than before" is not an option” should be true but I don’t think it was a possibility before. As I’ve tried to state throughout all my posts the available employment pool is very limited only due to the fact that the average intelligent and educated Dominican is under the impression that there is no way to get into that pool and the fact that the political spectrum holds such negativism with the people. The vast majority of those in power are of the corrupt elite and can’t phantom anyone wanting to join forces for the soul purpose of the betterment of the DR.

I firmly believe that the constitution needs to be changed to insure more checks and balances and to incorporate those things that are badly needed and presently lacking. I don’t think there is anyone on this board that wouldn’t agree the a civil service system would be a great benefit due to its guarantee of continued employment for work properly done and would do away with most of those botellas by people that can’t read or write.

In another thread I mentioned the Taiwan constitution and Aegap posted an interesting link. Now look at those links and tell me if you think that there is possible hope that LF might do the right thing. The potential is out there all it takes is for people to take the bull by the horns.

Rick

PS Very well said Don Juan

 

[mandryjx]

Excelent post, Chris! And there is no answer to your questions, but "poof" will never come. There are forces in the country far more powerful than LF, and the best he can do is put the economy on an even keel -- which he's done -- and then expand it and the middle class with it. The hope is that a broad middle class will prevent back-sliding, but that didn't help in 2000, what?
Just pray the economy strengthens so the FR and Chavistas don't feed on a depressed DR.
And Sauders: 300+ years of Spanish tradition is nothing after 800 years of Arab masters....

Well said Conchman.

 

[Rick Snyder]

Mandryjx,

Welcome to DR1. As that was your first post then how about a little introduction so that we have a feel as to your knowledge to the DR and its workings.

Now those that are talking about prosecution of wrongdoers it looks like LF might be getting the award handed to him on a platter as indicated here. All it will take is close scrutiny from the media and the government.

Rick

 

[mandryjx]

Hi Rick,
I'm a New York/Floridian in search of new horizons. I'm a novice with respect to DR. Have visited twice in the span of eight years. In perusing through various sites while in search of a villa to vacation in, I stumbled across this site. Out of sheer curiosity I decided to sign up. This site is actually a breath of fresh air. I was amazed to see so many insightful, rather intellectual conversations have funneled through this site.

 

[Rick Snyder]

Mandryjx,

Thank you very much for that introduction.

The main purpose of this board is to help those that wish to know more about the DR in all aspects of it. As you may have noticed we have forums covering just about everything and with the search function in the upper right of your screen you may inquire about what ever you wish to know and it will usually direct you to a thread dealing with your inquiry.

The board is made of people living here and in a host of different countries and are made of people of a host of nationalities. As an example I'm American and have lived here 10 years now and call the DR my home.

Once again welcome to DR1 and we look forward to your posts and questions.

Rick

Edited to correct grammar

 

[Hipocrito Mejia]

Now those that are talking about prosecution of wrongdoers it looks like LF might be getting the award handed to him on a platter as indicated here. All it will take is close scrutiny from the media and the government.

I actually saw most of that interview with Juarez Castillo this morning, and although some of the things that he pointed out make sense, there are too many holes in the Castillos' story and way too many assumptions for anyone to really say that they can connect the dots and link Hipo to the major drug trafficking that took place during his tenure. Anything coming from them (Castillos) has to be taken with a big grain of salt when it comes to Hipo, as there is obviously some serious personal dislike between those two.

Now, a clear cut case of corruption and stealing was what took place at the department of agriculture during Hipo's administration, yet, all the accused officials have been tried and discharged. The whole lot of them (Elijio Jaquez and crew) belong in jail and the judges that presided over their trial should be in the cell right next to them.

 

[mandryjx]

Rick,
Perhaps you or others viewing this forum could in fact guide me. Though my ventures into this forum were as a result of my searching for a vacation villa, fact is I’ve always considering making the DR my home.

I would like to know if the DR has a search engine similar to www.martindale.com. This site enables one to search for an attorney and/or a firm. I’m in the legal field, working as a Litigation Specialist. Searching through the wide world web has led me to four firms that seem to have nine partners, a few associates and a couple of offices spread throughout the country. Perhaps if I could find a comparable site, I might be able to broaden my search and find larger firms, with hopes that they are heading in the direction of eDiscovery filings.

 

[Rick Snyder]

Board members please excuse my highjacking this thread but I wish to help this new member.

Mandryjx,

From the main forums you will see the “Legal” forum right below this Government forum. That forum is moderated by Fabio J. Guzman who is a Dominican attorney and his website is;

http://www.drlawyer.com/

If you have any questions of a legal nature that is the forum you should be posting in.

Rick

Now back on thread.