57% of Dominicans live in poverty

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RacerX

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So this is your excuse why it's OK to throw trash out the window? It's your trash not the public's!!!! How is our country going to progress if we make up excuses for such behavior?!? It's the same thing in NYC the apt are nice and clean but then they take out their trash and leave it in the hallway. Like that's not part of their environment too!

THIS is a problem with creates a bias against Dominicans when they move into buildings in the US, where there are other nationalities or Americans. Hmm, you either have to have a spanish speaking Super to explain this to them or either do what I used to do. Knock on their door with a broom and a mop and tell them to clean that sh''t up or I ll get you kicked out. Cooth wasnt a strongpoint for me then. But Wonderwoman is right, that isnt a real excuse "We have to throw garbage out or our house/car will look dirty" Not good. I see all these commercials paid for my the Tourism Department and they always mention how beautiful the country is, but never make reference to garbage everywhere, EVERYWHERE.
By the way, serious question: Where do you guys think the garbage goes after it leaves your presence. I mean you cant NOT see it everyday when you go outside or open your front door.
 

greydread

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Jan 3, 2007
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ha! thats was funny...
more likely to stay competitive they will move to China, India, Vietnam or points east. Or if they stay in this hemisphere it will be a battle for the most underdeveloped country. Paraguay, Bolivia, Ecuador, by the way are we past creating economic disasters for our own financial gain. I dont think so.
The global marketplace means just that. They(these corporations) have no allegiance to anyone for any specific period of time.

No. I was speaking specifically about the DR's main GDP gogetter = Tourism!

Unlike manufacturing, helpdesk and telemarketing services this resource, if correctly managed cannot be duplicated elsewhere. As a matter of fact as the per capita earnings of the other countries you mentioned and the economic disparity in those countries improve you can look forward to seeing planeloads of their workers arriving to vacation in the Dominican Republic with cameras around their necks and fistfulls of Pesos in their hands.

"Allegiance/ GlobalMarketplace", whatever. There is only 1 Dominican Republic and it's the #1 tourist destination in the Caribbean. Dominican businesses from linnen/ laundry service suppliers to food wholesalers to livery services to entertainment venues, restaraunts, electrical and electronic repair, carpentry, plumbing, IT support, pool cleaners....name it will spring up locally to support this industry and grow as it grows.
 

bob saunders

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Although these articles are fairly accurate about the state of affairs in the DR, nothing there shows an increasing gap between rich and poor, in fact ther DR went from 58 TO 54 on your prosperty list, perhaps proving that things are getting better not worse.
 

greydread

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Although these articles are fairly accurate about the state of affairs in the DR, nothing there shows an increasing gap between rich and poor, in fact ther DR went from 58 TO 54 on your prosperty list, perhaps proving that things are getting better not worse.

I noticed that too but when I got into more depth It became apparent that the comparative studies are only good for hard numbers (internal) to compare to similar numbers from other years. If I'm 10th this year and 9th next year it could mean that I'm doing worse than last year but somebody who was better off than me last year is doing even worse.

The answers are in there, they just have to be dug out. I used the Legatum reports primarily for their research sources.
 

AZB

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:ermm::ermm::ermm::ermm::ermm::ermm::ermm::ermm::ermm::ermm:

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. What does me being black have anything to do with you making baseless claims that you can't support with any facts? Is my being black an issue for you? If not, why even bring it into the discussion? I haven't. All I've done is refute your statements with proven facts. Your ignorance is really showing here.

Oh yeah. Adding "Viva Obama" at the end of your posts doesn't make your comments any less ignorant or racist.

Sheesh! I mean, you claim to travel a lot. And it was Mark Twain that said, "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." But you, my friend, are living proof that this adage doesn't apply to everyone.

Open your mind and get a clue.;)


Vince.

So I was right. Hehehehe.
if the shoe fits....
no wonder you were offended. Never mind, since obama is the president, I will let you have the last words. Cheers.
AZB
 
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I'd like to see a poll asking Dominicans if they feel they are living better now than they were 5, 10 or 20 years ago. I think compared to the US and most of the rest of the world, the numbers would be pretty impressive.

There are probably at least million Dominicans living in basic cinderblock homes with tin roofs that grew up in homes with palm slab walls and thatched roofs. What would have been called middle class 20 years ago is now called the lower class. 65% of the country has a TV now which to me seems pretty amazing.

I stayed in a home in the middle of Los Charimicos about 25 years ago that would have been considered middle class at the time. They had a concrete floor with palm slab walls and a thatched roof. They had a small dorm fridge, a gas range and all of two light bulbs for the building. In the back yard, they had a wash table and lines to hang their clothes. No TV. It had three rooms: a living room, a kitchenette, a bedroom and an outside flush toilet along with a hose for taking showers. For two people though, it was pretty good living.
 

Lambada

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Then you'll understand how and why many think about the statistics that originate from the UN you cited and who does them, right?

I guess it comes down from who we ~want~ to believe, right?

The link I put up was from the CIA World Factbook. The CIA has taken over the UN??? I never knew that.
 

cobraboy

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The link I put up was from the CIA World Factbook. The CIA has taken over the UN??? I never knew that.
:cheeky:

Cute!

Some don't like the eeeeevil CIA so they question the source.

Others think the UN is the single most corrupt, inept, agenda-driven institution on the planet.

It just goes to show: folks will gravitate to the "truth" put out by those whom they agree with politically.

I don't know about the CIA and their "truthiness." Never really needed them as a source, although their "factbook" on the world is as accurate as anyone's.

However, I can cite a looooooong list of baloney the UN has produced...
 

DRob

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Aug 15, 2007
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So I was right. Hehehehe.
if the shoe fits....
no wonder you were offended. Never mind, since obama is the president, I will let you have the last words. Cheers.
AZB

AZB,

My my. I leave for a few days, and you go off again. Hope we didn't ruin your trip to NYC. Heh.

Wow. I'm actually impressed. It's a very rare thing to run into a so-called educated person with the sheer breadth of your ignorance.

My original point in this discussion on poverty was that it is one thing to disagree on the causes or solutions to a particular problem, in this case poverty. That's fine. It is quite another to revel in someone else's poverty and/or misery, because it makes you feel better about yourself. That's just sadistic.

Whatever happened to "to whom much has been given, much will be expected?" I mean, it's bad enough to be profoundly selfish and shortsighted, but do you have to get off on it by badmouthing those who are less fortunate?

On to the later, less fortunate racist comments you made. Unlike you, my brown-skinned south asian muslim friend, Corsair and I 1) are both quite happy in our own skins, 2) have no interest in proving to the world that we're something that we're not (and have no interest in being) and 3) don't use any perceived racial, religious, or other genetic difference to discount or discredit a meritorious comment. That's all about you, and your issues.

Back on point. The reason the BRIC countries are doing so well and rapidly becoming the economic powerhouses of the future is because education mixed with opportunity is an incredibly powerful game-changer, on both the individual and macro level.

In the United States, the middle class was created by a combination of returning WWII veterans going to school and/or finding solid jobs that were far superior to anything experienced in the nation's prior history.

Nothing will change the fortunes of the majority of Dominicans (some will admittedly always be poor) faster than a solid education, and incentives for opportunity to take them somewhere beyond dire poverty.

But people like AZB actually fear this. AZB's existence in DR is utterly dependent upon the maintaining of large numbers of poor, ignorant, and desperate people. An educated, fully employed population would make it very difficult for opportunists like him to stand on the necks of others, insult the poor for sport, and take advantage of the exchange rate to screw a bunch of poor, desperate women who would otherwise have nothing to do with him.

The DR is full of decent, well-meaning expats with many different, valid perspectives.

And then there's people like AZB.
 

bob saunders

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AZB,

But people like AZB actually fear this. AZB's existence in DR is utterly dependent upon the maintaining of large numbers of poor, ignorant, and desperate people. An educated, fully employed population would make it very difficult for opportunists like him to stand on the necks of others, insult the poor for sport, and take advantage of the exchange rate to screw a bunch of poor, desperate women who would otherwise have nothing to do with him.

The DR is full of decent, well-meaning expats with many different, valid perspectives.

And then there's people like AZB.

I'm sure that ABZ would still be sucessful regardless if the Dominican Republic was full of educated, fully employed, and weathy people. He strikes me as a chameleon.
 

Lambada

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Nothing will change the fortunes of the majority of Dominicans (some will admittedly always be poor) faster than a solid education, and incentives for opportunity to take them somewhere beyond dire poverty.

Good post DRob. You and corsair debate using intellect. There are others who....don't. It is glaringly obvious to any reader with eyes to see.
 
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cobraboy

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Good post DRob. You and corsair debate using intellect. There are others who....don't. It is glaringly obvious to any reader with eyes to see.
So now: intellect=shares my worldview

It certainly is a convenient formula to make folks feel...better. Almost like a pep rally. "Yea!!!! Our side!!! 'Cuz we're smarter! Just ask us!" :cheeky:

And like him or not, AZB has shown what intellect IN ACTION can do: go into a totally foreign environment and produce results for himself. Folks may not like the formula, but he has accomplished in the DR what others cannot do in their own country.

Some folks harrrrumph a good game. Aftab PLAYS a good game.

I'll take action over words any day.
 

DRob

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Aug 15, 2007
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So now: intellect=shares my worldview

It certainly is a convenient formula to make folks feel...better. Almost like a pep rally. "Yea!!!! Our side!!! 'Cuz we're smarter! Just ask us!" :cheeky:

And like him or not, AZB has shown what intellect IN ACTION can do: go into a totally foreign environment and produce results for himself. Folks may not like the formula, but he has accomplished in the DR what others cannot do in their own country.

Some folks harrrrumph a good game. Aftab PLAYS a good game.

I'll take action over words any day.

CB,

To clarify, so my point won't be missed: I don't begrudge anyone who has worked hard to make a good living for themselves. As a small biz owner, I know how hard it can be, and imagine it's several times more difficult when you're living in another country. Frankly, I admire what you've done with your bike biz. No problems, good luck, God bless.

I took issue NOT because AZB has achieved a measure of success (good for him), but rather because he chose to berate poor people for the sin of being poor, discredit Corsair's comments because he's a black american, and insult anyone whose perspective is different from his. In other words, the man appears incapable of disagreeing without being obnoxiously disagreeable.

Reread his posts, and tell me whether, from the most objective perspective you can muster, his comment are intellectually challenging, or merely insipid and crude.
 

Robert

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In other words, the man appears incapable of disagreeing without being obnoxiously disagreeable.

Reread his posts, and tell me whether, from the most objective perspective you can muster, his comment are intellectually challenging, or merely insipid and crude.

That just about sums him up :)

Like him or loath him, he has done what 95% of expats never do.
Assimilated extremely well, has an excellent grasp of the language and totally immersed himself in the culture.

He makes his living from middle-class to rich Dominicans and does a pretty good job at it. Many have a lot of respect for him and he has a pretty wide circle of influential Dominican friends. Bottom line, he would survive and do well in just about any country.

He's no more jaded towards the poor than "many" middle class and up Dominicans. When you live and breath around Dominicans 24x7, it sometimes rubs off on you. If you did, you might know what I'm getting at.

This thread is not about AZB, so let's end it here, anymore posts on him, consider them deleted, so don't waste your time, that includes you AZB.

Carry on...
 

Lambada

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When you live and breath around Dominicans 24x7, it sometimes rubs off on you. If you did, you might know what I'm getting at.

That would be an excellent subject for another thread, Robert. What things expats allow to rub off on themselves & internalise and which things they draw the line at.

But as you say.........back to this thread's topic, poverty.
 

dv8

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Nothing will change the fortunes of the majority of Dominicans (some will admittedly always be poor) faster than a solid education, and incentives for opportunity to take them somewhere beyond dire poverty.

i could not agree with you more. education is the key to personal and professional development. but in DR poor do not only need education but even education about education. to be more precise: you can lead the horse to water but you cannot make it drink.
DR ain't african savannah with no schools for miles. there are plenty of primary education schools all over the country. do kids go? majority yes but some not, because their parents think it pays off better to send kids on the streets: gringos pay so well for not having their shoes and windows clean!
and schools are free. yes, they may be "crappy" public schools but free none the less. a smart, hard working student can learn more in a public school than a moron whose parents fork out thousands of dollars for private school in SD.
then we have public university with evening classes and really low rates: one can study whole year for just few thousand pesos. and here is an advantage of dominican families - they are always huge and extended and there are always some family members in SD, POP, santiago, san pedro, san francisco or any other big city. if there is a will there is a way to study, even at the lowest salary one can still afford to pay the keep to the family and pay university fees. the only thing they have to do is forget shoes (girl) or frias (boys) for few years. small price to pay for the raise in society.
do dominicans use those opportunities? some do indeed. but some cannot be bothered because it is too much work.
 

bob saunders

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This is how the poor live in the campo. The child and younger couple live in Jarabacoa, but Grandma lives high up in the mountains. Poverty is everywhere in the DR and it is in every country in the world. Who is worse off, the poverty stricked in an affluent society, or those in a poor country.

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