A sad story - how to stop it happening again

[greydread]

It seems odd to me that building codes would allow for a metallic roofing material which isn't properly grounded. Every lightning storm carries potential disaster otherwise. I remember my first afternoon thunderstorm at El Conde in Santo Domingo like it was yesterday. When the wires got wet the sparks flew everywhere.


Unbeleivable. It was like the 4th of July. It's almost like electricity is regarded as magic in the DR.

In lieu of metal pipes, the rebar sticking out from the rooftop would also serve as some small protection. Anything more conductive than a human body will help as an alternate, lower resistant path to ground.

 

[bigbird]

It seems odd to me that building codes would allow for a metallic roofing material which isn't properly grounded.......
.

I am going to take a wild guess this happened in one of the barrios where there is NO building code.

 

[Robert]

It seems odd to me that building codes would allow for a metallic roofing material which isn't properly grounded. Every lightning storm carries potential disaster otherwise. I remember my first afternoon thunderstorm at El Conde in Santo Domingo like it was yesterday. When the wires got wet the sparks flew everywhere.


Unbeleivable. It was like the 4th of July. It's almost like electricity is regarded as magic in the DR.

In lieu of metal pipes, the rebar sticking out from the rooftop would also serve as some small protection. Anything more conductive than a human body will help as an alternate, lower resistant path to ground.

What building codes? They don't apply to houses for the poor, like most parts of the planet.

Actually, I think you're on to something, because it sure feels magical when the power comes back

 

[bienamor]

What building codes? They don't apply to houses for the poor, like most parts of the planet.

Actually, I think you're on to something, because it sure feels magical when the power comes back

aye dios mio robert jajajajajajajajajaa

 

[Lambada]

Matilda, get the next Mayor of your municipality to invest in some insulated rescue hooks plus training in how to use them.
How to Use an Insulated Rescue Hook

Proper Way to Rescue a Person With an Insulated Rescue Hook

The training needs to include the different arcing (as in electrical arc) potential of different electrical sources. It is my understanding that some power sources can arc up to 8 metres.

For anyone helping someone struck by lightning, same rules do not apply (they are no longer in contact with a current so can be touched, I believe).

 

[dv8]

rescuing a person who is being electrocuted is very risky and there is not much one can do.
in any case: you have to avoid any wet areas so stand on something dry. wear shoes and stand on rubber mat (a goma would be good, i think) or a blanket (can be even newspapers). then it is best to smack a person with a wooden stick trying to either knock the wire out of their hands or knock them away from the source. apparently you can also use dry clothes (towels, sheets, fabric) or blanket to secure the wire. stand as far from the electricity source as possible.
CPR should consist of a heart massage and mouth to mouth.

frankly i am not sure if i was able to risk my own life in order to save a stranger. not everyone can be a hero. remember that usually people who save lives (police, firefighters, doctors, soldiers, life guards) are trained. act on an impulse and you can die too.

 

[Adrian Bye]

i've been shocked a lot of times by 110 AC both here and in the US while messing around with computers. Its not like its a death ray. It hurts, but you deal with it especially if its not too long a shock.

If there's no non conductive things lying around to move the person I think diving in feet first would be a pretty good strategy.

 

[bigbird]

.......If there's no non conductive things lying around to move the person I think diving in feet first would be a pretty good strategy.

Why feet first? Do you mean like a flying drop kick?

What happens if you don't knock the person free?

 

[pedrochemical]

I was always told that the voltage is not an issue. The higher the voltage the further a spark can jump, so do not get too close to super-high voltage installations.
But the real killer is current - amperes.

 

[Chip]

With all due respect lets just get a few facts straight:

Things to remember that apply in the DR:

1. Most ladders available in the DR are aluminum, which conducts electricity. If the electricity is connected to a zinc roof, it will go through the ladder (or an aluminum ladder with a rescuer on top of it) to the ground.

On the contrary, they are wood and homemade. This is what you find in the poorer areas where people steal power. On top of that, anybody that connects to the power illegally would never use an aluminum ladder. That would be because many times they are doing live connections.

Things to remember that apply in the DR:

3. A dry pair of chancletas (rubber sandals)

This will get you shocked. Boots or shoes with thick soles are the preferred here.

Things to remember that apply in the DR:

Most people in the DR don?t have or cannot afford proper workboots.

No offense but this is just not true. The boots that I reference are cheap and plentiful here. At any rate shoes with a thick sole will work as well.

 

[Adrian Bye]

Why feet first? Do you mean like a flying drop kick?

What happens if you don't knock the person free?

i'm new to this as well my friend; just what someone else posted.

if an 11 year old was getting electrocuted in front of me, i think that would be a reasonable approach.

 

[bigbird]

i'm new to this as well my friend; just what someone else posted. .

I know, just joking with you about the flying drop kick.

I have always been taught to free the person by hitting them with a 2x4 or similar object. I have also been taught to never, ever come in dircect contact with the person.

What I did learn in this thread that will stick with me is the following.

4. You don?t have to kill the victim while hitting them with something made from wood. Hit the point of contact with just enough force to release them (for example their arm).

5. Contact can also be broken using a piece of rope, a pair of DRY pants (use the ones you are wearing) or a piece of garden hose to pull them off the electrical contact. Put one end around their torso and then pull them away, without contacting their body with yours and becoming a second victim.

Education is a start. Maybe teaching CPR to a lot of people would be a good first step.

A rescue pole was mentioned which IMO would be useless. Would every household have one or just the corner colmado. Flying feet first into somone on the roof is without a doubt two casualities.

What forastero posted can easily be remembered and the items he/she mentioned would be readily available.

 

[Matilda]

Wow!!! You guys are great!!! So many ideas which I can make work here, but now have loads more questions!!

1. The girl was on the roof for 20 minutes. Everyone was too frightened to go near her as roof was zinc and they thought/knew it might hurt them too. So in answer to how long you can take the current for......maybe 20 mins.

2. They did not disconnect the power as was said it was not that easy - and were also scared to just cut the line - I assume no rubber handled pliers available.

3. i became excited about the water pipe idea till I too realised not many water pipes about and all are plastic. But could there be a way to ground using salt??? I know I had to put salt next to my transformer. No idea exactly how that works but could we ground all zinc roofs???

4. thanks lambada for the special stick thing!! Will tell new mayor to get them all over the place. We can have a few places in each barrio where they are there so that people can get them when needed. Like the smash the glass to get the fire axe out. Hope no one steals them though, but I don't think they will when they know what they are for.

5. Dominicans still tell me the blood thing works - will try and investigate more.

6. But thank you sooo much for the sensible ideas re hitting with sticks, and karate kicking the person - we need to adapt the way we know it should be done with what is really possible here.

I saw the girls mother today and told her what we would do and we will name the campaign after the little girl who died - so that she did not die in vain. Not a concept that they are familiar with here - but she loved the idea. Thank you so much for the ideas and please keep them coming. I will report back with how the campaign goes.

Matilda

 

[bigbird]

Maybe you can post a flyer in the colmados with pictures showing different ways to free a person being electrocuted. Something like a rope tossed around a victim and two people yanking the person free. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some literature already available on the internet. Maybe a cut, copy, paste and translate to Spanish you will be off to an inexpensive start.

Sometimes when in a restaurant you see a poster for the Heimlich maneuver. While waiting for your food you can't help but read it.

 

[bigbird]

......
2. They did not disconnect the power as was said it was not that easy - and were also scared to just cut the line - I assume no rubber handled pliers available.

3. i became excited about the water pipe idea till I too realised not many water pipes about and all are plastic. But could there be a way to ground using salt??? I know I had to put salt next to my transformer. No idea exactly how that works but could we ground all zinc roofs???.......

Matilda

If you use a wooden ladder to access the electrical lines and cut them one at a time you would not get electrocuted using pliers without rubber handles. Most of the electrical wires connected to the barrio homes are so old and brittle a good whack with a machete would also do the trick.

Grounding a tin roof will not prevent someone from getting electrocuted. The roof was proabably already grounded. In layman's terms let say the antenna was attached to a broom stick. The electrical wire came in contact with the antenna. The victim was standing on a tin roof which was grounded, not properly but grounded none the less. Once the victim touched the antenna the electrical circuit was completed. The electricity flowed from the wire to the antenna through the victim finally to the grounded tin roof. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

Bless You, your heart is in the right place.........

 

[RacerX]

I didnt read all of this, so some of this may be redundant but wood doesnt conduct electricity. So swatting the person with a log, branch or 2x4 long enough to engage the target but still keep you out of range.
Throwing a knife? What the f? Pliers coated with rubber? Where? Here? Ha! They need to stop. thats like saying Why dont you throw some hot water at them. Shooting someone? And what if the bullet kills them versus the electricity?

You cannot let go because the electricity overwhelms the nervous system so you lose the control of your muscles. You die because the high voltage sends the heart into fibrillation(the muscle contracts but pumps nothing-there is no volumetric efficiency) and lyzes(ruptures cell integrity) the red blood cells in the liver. And the heat produced from the electrical current also causes damage to the internal organs. And in some cases put your hair on fire.

The greater problem here is half-ass electricians who use electrical tape and bind everything together using rope, rubber straps and hangers, who cover no exposed connections with weatherproof/tamperproof connectors(just a bundle of cheap electrical tape-and I sometimes doubt if its 600v rated electrical tape vs. just black vinyl tape). And people who have no emergency medical training so in an emergency they all just stand around and gossip.

In this instance if someone could have gotten close enough to the child without touching the roof and exert enough momentum with a wood plank or tree branch(minus any metal in it) long enough there are 2 options: you could thrust it at the wire that was touching the antenna or the roof, removing contact; or hit the girl with it(where? I dont know, because she is on a metal roof grasping on a metal antenna) to break her free from the current.

 

[Lambada]

Yes homemade wooden ladders are often used here plus also rope ladders - this was filmed in Santiago..............
Al peligro que se exponen los pintores de edificios

 

[waytogo]

I think everyone has missed the main problem here, what the hell is an 11 year old girl doing on the roof in the first place. Was the idiot and lazy father telling the girl go on the roof, turn the antenna and I will tell you when I have a good signal. 11 year old girls just don't go on the roof of a house unless they are told to.
Probably dead because of an idiot parent.

 

[Chip]

One thing to remember too is that the current here typically is of lower amperage due to the thin guage wire and therefore one will more than likely receive a "smaller" jolt.

Also, for those who don't know, merely touching a 110 line won't kill you instantly. I did that myself on more than one occasion and remember doing it specifically while we were rewiring my Dad's house. I touched it with a hard handled screwdriver and am still here to talk about it.

I think most of the damage therefore must come from cardiac arrest from the length of time one is exposed. Therefore, the sooner one gets the person who is being electrocuted away from the live the better chance they have to live.

 

[ExtremeR]

The problem with 110V is not that it kills you instantly but that it lets you "pegao" making the victim unable to move away from the "connection". I've been electrocuted by 110V no less than 20 times in my life, maybe the combination of a zinc roof, small girl and maybe without shoes up there was the culprit for disaster.