Chip, the size of the wire has nothing to do the amperage going through a person's body when being electrocuted. There is no "smaller jolt" because the gauge is smaller.
- Thread starter Matilda
- Start date
A sad story - how to stop it happening again
Chip, the size of the wire has nothing to do the amperage going through a person's body when being electrocuted. There is no "smaller jolt" because the gauge is smaller.
From a source about electrocution on the web:
Although the extent of injury is most directly related to amount of current (amperage) often only the voltage is known.
http://www.aic.cuhk.edu.hk/web8/electrocution.htm
Also, thin wire that is typically damaged and poorly connected cannot carry as much amperage. Also too because of this many time the voltage that makes it to the house in a situation like this is much less than 110 volts. In my old system I measure the voltage in our house at little more than 80 volts.
Yes I agree that many have missed the main problem here ............. Matilda is looking for INFORMATION of how to prevent accidents (no matter how, where, who is to blame ................) from happening again in the area she is living. She is NOT looking for people to remostrate parents.fellow poster on who knows more about electricity & make SUPPOSITIONS on how this accident might have happened.
I know that Matilda was more involved in trying to help this 11 year old than she has mentioned here. As she has not mentioned her actions & reactions when called to the site, then neither will I - I respect her decision not to go into details. I KNOW she is trying to turn an extremely harrowing experience into something educational AND preventative for future accidents of this nature. She is to be applauded on BOTH aspects & assisted with her endeavours accordingly.
You have had several good responses here Matilda & I hope more will come along in the fulness of time. I am not an electrician no qualified to give advice on how to deal with such a scenario as you were presented with. I hope I would first see if I could disconnect the power supply to the house (in a speedy manner rather than waiting for a qualified EdeNorte (EdeSud in your case) to arrive The machete, wooden pole to bash the cables away from the fuse box (or where it enters the house failing such a modern nicety as a fuse box) wood seem the tools of choice for a quick solution at minimum risk. THEN get up to the girl on the roof. If the disconnect has failed & assuming there is no water around the person entrapped on the wire I would entrust to the rope, wood batten, pair of trousers/shirt for pulling the arm away from the wire. The 'drop kick' may be impressive to onlookers but could cause problems if performed on a fragile (read somewhat old & rusty) zinc roof.
I hope I would also have thought to get someone on the phone to the medical services whilst climbing on to the roof in the hope that they would arrive during or shortly after the victim had been released from the wire! Again, I am not qualified in such things as CPR/resuscitation techniques so would prefer someone who IS to be there in the shortest possible time to take over from my limited knowledge on this matter.
The posters with pictures (for those who might not be able to read) put up in the colmado seems a very good start. Maybe you could use this example to see if there is a body of people in the community who are prepared to start a 'Volunteer Corps' for emergencies like this. Obviously they will need to be trained & if you get expenses in this matter you can just bring them here where I am sure many will e prepared to offer assistance! This seems to be A VERY WORTHWHILE CAUSE'. ~ Grahame.
(with apologies to all if I have duplicated on anything posted whilst I was typing this!)
Just a thought,,,,,,,
Maybe you could start with a picture like the one below, then show a picture with different methods to free a person, and finally a photo showing how to revive a person. I would think it would not be that difficult for some one who is good with Photo Shop or some other software program. You can probably find all the photos you would need online.
As a starter send an email to info@mikeholt.com. Mike Holt does seminars in the USA on the electrical code. He is a very helpful person. If you explain your situation I am sure he can guide you in the right direction.
Good Luck.....
From experience
Just a note -- Even if there are iron or copper pipes with a grounding wire to them in the house doesn't mean they will ground. If somone has repaired a split pipe with a section of plastic pipe then the ground is gone.
Getting zapped while in the shower is not a comfortable feeling.
Just a note -- Even if there are iron or copper pipes with a grounding wire to them in the house doesn't mean they will ground. If somone has repaired a split pipe with a section of plastic pipe then the ground is gone.
Getting zapped while in the shower is not a comfortable feeling.
Wires off the post (if legal) or directly off the overhead wires.
Barrio "connection" may only have a machette cut-off switch... the knife-switches which look like the light switches at Alcatraz prison, some don't even have that.
Many -more and more actually- DO have a main knife-switch and at least one "trip"-breaker.
I'd estimate that 90% of homes are NOT at all or not properly grounded.
GFI's are yet something of the future.
Only a few select private luxury development have under ground power wiring. In countries like this one, probably soon more of a headache than anything else (repairs and finding).
... J-D.
i think it is important to remember that prying a victim free is not the end. the emergency services are not readily available in DR so it is best to take the victim to the hospital as soon as he/she is stabilized.
feel for the pulse on the neck, just below the jaw line. check for breath and heart beat. do mouth to mouth and heart massage immediately: lack of oxygen can cause brain damage in a short time.
also: electrical burn is a nasty one; at first skin may only look red but eventually it can burn all the way to the bone.
i had CPR course in high school and maybe it would be beneficial, mat, if your campaign concentrated on that. education, education, education.
feel for the pulse on the neck, just below the jaw line. check for breath and heart beat. do mouth to mouth and heart massage immediately: lack of oxygen can cause brain damage in a short time.
also: electrical burn is a nasty one; at first skin may only look red but eventually it can burn all the way to the bone.
i had CPR course in high school and maybe it would be beneficial, mat, if your campaign concentrated on that. education, education, education.
Best thing is to try to get the person away from the current in the first place - a long pole perhaps to try to "shove" the person away from the wire if possible. People who are electrocuted can't "let go" because the current causes their muscles to contract so whatever their holding, they'll hold onto until the power is shut off.
CPR may work to keep blood circulating to vital organs - the biggest problem is the electricity has short-circuited the hearts normal rhythm (call Ventricular fibrillation) and the only real way to get that back again is with a counter shock. Some times a sharp blow to the chest can "manually shock" the heart back into a normal rhythm but this is an off chance hope kind of thing. The brain dies after 4-5 minutes without blood circulation.
I assume cpr would work if you can get to someone as soon as they have 'died'???
CPR may work to keep blood circulating to vital organs - the biggest problem is the electricity has short-circuited the hearts normal rhythm (call Ventricular fibrillation) and the only real way to get that back again is with a counter shock. Some times a sharp blow to the chest can "manually shock" the heart back into a normal rhythm but this is an off chance hope kind of thing. The brain dies after 4-5 minutes without blood circulation.
I assume cpr would work if you can get to someone as soon as they have 'died'???
Te haz a caer de la antenna, como este.
Most of the tools you see laying around with rubber coated handles have that coating strictly for the comfort in handling. They were not safe for working on live electrical circuits when they were brand new and any insulating qualities the rubber had has only decreased with use.
The roof was grounded. While standing on the grounded roofing material she grabbed the ungrounded and hot antenna supplying a path to ground, and hence was electrocuted.
(see bigbird post #36)
Please stop with the blood thing. Electricity does not care what it flows through. Whatever is the better conductor gets more current, and blood is a very good conductor. It would only serve to kill more surely. Tell them they are wrong, wrong, wrong.
The power here is no different than anywhere else. The supply a voltage. They try to keep it near 120 VAC. The current is determined by the load that you connect to it. The only way a wire will limit the current is by burning up and breaking the circuit. A 14 gauge wire (very small) will carry 15 amps all day, 20 in free air. Less than a fortieth of an amp can kill you.
It is true that a connected person is still alive for a while and probably cognitive of their situation. Therefore the first thing attempted should be telling them to try and fall away from whatever their hand is grasping, and then demonstrate with a hard lunge to the ground. ?Te haz a caer de la antenna, como este.? If they don?t respond then it is up to you to separate them with the other methods mentioned here.
It's also true that prevention of such needless tragedies would be a much happier resolution. However, the total disregard for proper safety practices in this country is deeply ingrained. Many will be electrocuted before this is changed. Therefore, it is a worthwhile endeavor to discuss rescue procedures.
Most of the tools you see laying around with rubber coated handles have that coating strictly for the comfort in handling. They were not safe for working on live electrical circuits when they were brand new and any insulating qualities the rubber had has only decreased with use.
The roof was grounded. While standing on the grounded roofing material she grabbed the ungrounded and hot antenna supplying a path to ground, and hence was electrocuted.
(see bigbird post #36)
Please stop with the blood thing. Electricity does not care what it flows through. Whatever is the better conductor gets more current, and blood is a very good conductor. It would only serve to kill more surely. Tell them they are wrong, wrong, wrong.
The power here is no different than anywhere else. The supply a voltage. They try to keep it near 120 VAC. The current is determined by the load that you connect to it. The only way a wire will limit the current is by burning up and breaking the circuit. A 14 gauge wire (very small) will carry 15 amps all day, 20 in free air. Less than a fortieth of an amp can kill you.
It is true that a connected person is still alive for a while and probably cognitive of their situation. Therefore the first thing attempted should be telling them to try and fall away from whatever their hand is grasping, and then demonstrate with a hard lunge to the ground. ?Te haz a caer de la antenna, como este.? If they don?t respond then it is up to you to separate them with the other methods mentioned here.
It's also true that prevention of such needless tragedies would be a much happier resolution. However, the total disregard for proper safety practices in this country is deeply ingrained. Many will be electrocuted before this is changed. Therefore, it is a worthwhile endeavor to discuss rescue procedures.
I had assumed that the antenna mast was in solid contact with the roofing material. Every antenna mast I've ever used (and that's plenty) has a picture inside a red circle of a stick person, an overhead line and a ZAP with a diagonal red line across it. Whoever installed an antenna mast anywhere near a power line should be charged with involuntary manslaughter.
Irresponsibility oozes from every detail of this story. Unfortunately there will be many others.
yes i have heard the thing about cutting someone i.e making them bleed if they are being electrocuted. That would just top your day off wouldnt it, electrocuted and missing a limb?!?!?
My partner and all i have discussed it with here also seem to think as long as you are wearing footwear and messing with electricity then you will be ok.
I agree some education would be great, maybe a infomercial on local channels bought to you by your new Sindico?!?!?!
My partner and all i have discussed it with here also seem to think as long as you are wearing footwear and messing with electricity then you will be ok.
I agree some education would be great, maybe a infomercial on local channels bought to you by your new Sindico?!?!?!
Yes some education would be great. You can start by informing people just because you are wearing footwear does NOT mean you are ok when messing with electricity.
See photo in post #46. The gentleman not only has footwear but he is wearing work boots.
Actually some infomercials would be such a great idea.
1. Dealing with electric shocks
2.How to treat burns etc
3. How to put out a fire safely
5. What to do incase of choking, Accidents, head injury etc
6. Water safety, not leaving wells uncovered, children unattended etc
There are so many things that would surely be useful and probably greatly received by the general public.
That certainly would be a great idea but you also need to be able to reach out to those with limited TV access. I know in the barrio there are quite a few homes without TV and many without electricity.