No, call Don King to promote this one ... it's public now, settle it mano-a-(wo)mano. :rambo:
- Thread starter Rafael Rothschild
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An open e-mail to a DR1 poster
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I personally think expats pay way more to their employees (maids etc) than an average dominican. Ok some expats my not speak spanish properly but let me tell you, they probably know more than you about this country beause they live here 24/7. When I was a tourist here like you, I thought I knew alot also, yet when I moved down here, thats when I learned the real knowledge of living in DR.
The issue with paying dominicans low wages: do you know what type of work you get for what you pay for? Yes, the worker get money according to the quality of work they put out. These low wage workers are nothing but a total screw up. They can't get one thing right with their tiny brain. Example: My maid in puerto plata was fired because I caught her cleaning bathroom toilet with my dish washing sponge. Let me remind you, I paid her 3 times more than her full time job at a dominican house. The other maid did something similar, she took the stove napkin (towel) and cleaned the toilet with it.
Then the guy who was supposed to paint my car forgot to write down the paint code that I chose so guess what, he chooses a paint for me, Purple. I mean out of all the colors in the world, he chooses purple? I wanted to paint his face with it. Then he tells me "no es mi culpa' no fui yo...". I had him change the color.
You tell them this and they do that. They hardly ever get it right. No wonder they make what they make. You think they would become smarter if you pay them double? The smart ones are already making double or triple than the dumb ones. So please live here for some time and then pass the judgements.
AZB
The issue with paying dominicans low wages: do you know what type of work you get for what you pay for? Yes, the worker get money according to the quality of work they put out. These low wage workers are nothing but a total screw up. They can't get one thing right with their tiny brain. Example: My maid in puerto plata was fired because I caught her cleaning bathroom toilet with my dish washing sponge. Let me remind you, I paid her 3 times more than her full time job at a dominican house. The other maid did something similar, she took the stove napkin (towel) and cleaned the toilet with it.
Then the guy who was supposed to paint my car forgot to write down the paint code that I chose so guess what, he chooses a paint for me, Purple. I mean out of all the colors in the world, he chooses purple? I wanted to paint his face with it. Then he tells me "no es mi culpa' no fui yo...". I had him change the color.
You tell them this and they do that. They hardly ever get it right. No wonder they make what they make. You think they would become smarter if you pay them double? The smart ones are already making double or triple than the dumb ones. So please live here for some time and then pass the judgements.
AZB
Rafael...some advice....
You have to be here for a long time in order to understand the people and the expats. Take it from someone who has been through the process and still spouts off what he should not...because he knows not. It is a long learning process. Expats bitch because they are going through a process and the process is difficult and they are human and not everyone is the same or has the same experience or handles it as well as some believe they should. There are some huge negatives to this country but the expats as a whole are probably not one of them. You obviously do not understand what is going on with the hired help. Expats are usually paying them in more than one way. But the wages are fair for this country and they can do wonders with the money they receive. I have found that expats are usually more generous than dominicans are hiring their own people. I know we are very generous with the young lady that works in our home. So...get humble cause you don't know as much as you may think you do. Best of Luck.
You have to be here for a long time in order to understand the people and the expats. Take it from someone who has been through the process and still spouts off what he should not...because he knows not. It is a long learning process. Expats bitch because they are going through a process and the process is difficult and they are human and not everyone is the same or has the same experience or handles it as well as some believe they should. There are some huge negatives to this country but the expats as a whole are probably not one of them. You obviously do not understand what is going on with the hired help. Expats are usually paying them in more than one way. But the wages are fair for this country and they can do wonders with the money they receive. I have found that expats are usually more generous than dominicans are hiring their own people. I know we are very generous with the young lady that works in our home. So...get humble cause you don't know as much as you may think you do. Best of Luck.
Who is this "Keith" that he keeps addressing in his OP? Cuz it certainly is not me...aranoid:
I believe it is KeithUK.
Marlie
Only important matter is whether he'll settle mano-a-mano ... duke it out and restore your honour man!!!!
I'll leave this open a little for the oldtimers to have some fun. But to be truthful, this 'open e-mail' reminds me of spam or flame baiting or such tiresome stuff.
If you ask any Domincan maid whether they want to work for a foreigner or a Dominican family, they will ALL tell you a foreigner. Even for the same salary.
Why? Because, according to them, the Domincans look down on them and treat them with no respect. If the OP lived here he would know this. It is rough to find out anything visiting 6 times a year living in a hotel.
Why? Because, according to them, the Domincans look down on them and treat them with no respect. If the OP lived here he would know this. It is rough to find out anything visiting 6 times a year living in a hotel.
This is exactly true. My wife just hired a girl to do her accounting for her school. This involves tracking invoices and paying bills, incription for 600+ students, tracking payroll for around 50 people, and girl friday type duties from 0730am -500 pm 5 days a week for $5000 pesos per month plus medical/dental insurance, and this is a 1000 peso raise over what a lawyer was paying her to work 6 days per week. I would pay a maid...etc way better than my Dominican wife, but she knows the going rates better than me. My wife treats people working for her much, much better than the average Dominican employee so she has no problem getting good help.
Thank you Christa - when I first saw your name as the last poster I thought you might have closed it. To be honest, I think a lot of the cross-chat in here might be instructional for new posters too.
The 'open e-mail' style of posting reminds me more of another gentleman who plagued this board for a while. HE had good intentions to start off with & was offered much assistance - he then decided HE knew more than the rest of us put together & went his own way ........ banned from this & many more DR boards as I recall.
I think the problem here is one of not understanding the Dominican / Ex-Pat cultures sufficiently. The OP showed none of this agressive nature when visiting our house last week, in fact we got on very well I thought & he was certainly prepared to listen to what we said without suggesting we were "Burnt out Old Foggies". I am amused to see some of the things we mentioned during our 2 plus hours chat, coming up here in a manner which has been twisted to meet HIS agenda (whatever that might be).
Dominicans WE know from experience are prone to telling us what we want to hear & not always what is factual - you know in answer to "Is it far to Santo Domingo"? back comes the reply (because it is what we want to hear) "No. Just get on the Metro bus, a quick break in Santiago & then another hour to Santo Domingo". Three hours later we wonder why we are just on the outskirts of The Capital.
On DR1, we tend to 'Tell it how it is'. If we think yelling blue nurder at the tour companies is a waste of time - we SAY so, to try & save the poster a load of hassle & frustration! Maybe now that the OP is getting a different slant on the DR, one that he thinks crushes his good intentions, he is attacking the very core of the DR1 principle - to try & give sane, valued & honest views as to how things work here. Have worked, DO work & will CONTINUE to work for many years ..... no matter what our continued input is. And believe it or NOT (as you will) that input is tremendous, even though it does not show immediate results!!
I hope the OP has had a good nights sleep & re-joins us today in a better frame of mind. Do I fell insulted by his comments??? Hell no. If The OP wants lessons on how to insult people he should go see AZB who is a past master at insulting the likes of me (Eh Aftab??). AZB will teach him in EXCELLENT Spannish too (albeit DOMINICAN Spanish) with a number of words even the OP will not have heard of!!
No, I am just disappointed in the manner he tends to sweep all Ex-Pats with one brush, corraling us all under the mantle of unhelpful, 'little or poor Spanish' speaking, non integrating & exploitive of the Dominicans. I think we all deserve a little better treatment than that - certainly until he gets to know us better. I must introduce him to HB next time he is down. Also Bob Hildreth, Jim Belair, Jim Bailes, Dr. Bob, Grace Gallagher, Texas Bill, Miguel Costa ................... Now THESE guys do a LOT for the community!!
Have a nice day Y'all ~ Grahame.
The 'open e-mail' style of posting reminds me more of another gentleman who plagued this board for a while. HE had good intentions to start off with & was offered much assistance - he then decided HE knew more than the rest of us put together & went his own way ........ banned from this & many more DR boards as I recall.
I think the problem here is one of not understanding the Dominican / Ex-Pat cultures sufficiently. The OP showed none of this agressive nature when visiting our house last week, in fact we got on very well I thought & he was certainly prepared to listen to what we said without suggesting we were "Burnt out Old Foggies". I am amused to see some of the things we mentioned during our 2 plus hours chat, coming up here in a manner which has been twisted to meet HIS agenda (whatever that might be).
Dominicans WE know from experience are prone to telling us what we want to hear & not always what is factual - you know in answer to "Is it far to Santo Domingo"? back comes the reply (because it is what we want to hear) "No. Just get on the Metro bus, a quick break in Santiago & then another hour to Santo Domingo". Three hours later we wonder why we are just on the outskirts of The Capital.
On DR1, we tend to 'Tell it how it is'. If we think yelling blue nurder at the tour companies is a waste of time - we SAY so, to try & save the poster a load of hassle & frustration! Maybe now that the OP is getting a different slant on the DR, one that he thinks crushes his good intentions, he is attacking the very core of the DR1 principle - to try & give sane, valued & honest views as to how things work here. Have worked, DO work & will CONTINUE to work for many years ..... no matter what our continued input is. And believe it or NOT (as you will) that input is tremendous, even though it does not show immediate results!!
I hope the OP has had a good nights sleep & re-joins us today in a better frame of mind. Do I fell insulted by his comments??? Hell no. If The OP wants lessons on how to insult people he should go see AZB who is a past master at insulting the likes of me (Eh Aftab??). AZB will teach him in EXCELLENT Spannish too (albeit DOMINICAN Spanish) with a number of words even the OP will not have heard of!!
No, I am just disappointed in the manner he tends to sweep all Ex-Pats with one brush, corraling us all under the mantle of unhelpful, 'little or poor Spanish' speaking, non integrating & exploitive of the Dominicans. I think we all deserve a little better treatment than that - certainly until he gets to know us better. I must introduce him to HB next time he is down. Also Bob Hildreth, Jim Belair, Jim Bailes, Dr. Bob, Grace Gallagher, Texas Bill, Miguel Costa ................... Now THESE guys do a LOT for the community!!
Have a nice day Y'all ~ Grahame.
HEY!!!!!! I resemble that remark Keith!!:bunny: You having a knock at us Brits?
irate: We're the ones who can't play cricket or Football (even though we introduced them to the world:ermm so maybe there is something in what you say after all!! ~ Grahame.Well you're ok in soccer but, you're right, definitely not football!!! .... oval shaped ball used.knock at us Brits?
Thanks Chris for leaving it open. I've been out all morning exploiting in the barrios.................
My concern about the poster is this: he started out well but recently is loosing a lot of credibility. I'm particularly concerned that he attacked Conchman when we all know what that family has done for the north coast. And if Conchman was having a little down time relaxing at a poker table (we all know he works hard enough) then whether his conversation was 'empty' or not, I presume it was not expected that it would be reported on this board. A high profile businessman with a reputation to consider deserves some privacy.
Each time the poster is called on something we get 'I didn't mean you Grahame and Ginnie' (or whoever). But he did because he said 'every single expat I met'. He is warned by you Chris for a personal attack on one person & he comes back the next day & attacks many more. This shows evidence of failure to listen or failure to learn and we all know expats who don't learn are marmelised here.
As Bushbaby said, we met Rafael and enjoyed his company plus his wife, friend and their driver. But the games playing in the 'attack' posts we need like a hole in the head. :laugh:
I'm also seeing a pattern. Two late night postings, both over the top and attacking people, on consecutive nights. If I say the avocado syndrome, I think some here may know what I mean.
And I had thought that here was a poster who wasn't just another new person who knew it all..............Back to the drawing board, Ginnie. :laugh:
Well, OK, despite my better judgement, here goes...
I have visited many countries many times. Visits, and living in a place are different experiences. There are many posters that I do not agree with either. This does not make me unable to see their point.
It is the 'passing judgement' thing here that really worries me. And secondly, claiming experience to 'pass judgement'. Sheesh! Get off of this passing judgement business already. It is neither your, nor my job.
There is absolutely nothing wrong in employing servants. Providing a job is certainly not taking advantage of anyone. Most every business in the world employs staff. Household staff are no different. It would be much more profitable to look toward the free zones where employees are receiving very low salaries than to try and mess with the expats that employ staff.
I would say that foreigners certainly had and has a tremendous impact on areas in the DR. In other areas, foreigners have no impact at all. I would say your claims of being qualified to 'pass judgement' are ludicrous and show up your shallow knowledge of the Dominican Republic. The North Coast is not the DR. On a lighter note, I think the 'robbing' is about on a par
Creating level playing fields without taking the broader environment into consideration is really like making a weewee in the ocean. Surely it is not the expats responsibility to create a level playing field. Most long-termers on this board have a little respect for Dominican born people and will not impose their 'solutions' on a people that have the ability to create their own.
I don't see anything wrong in this picture. People were out enjoying themselves in the way that they choose to do so.
There is value in both. But certainly there is no value in listening to other people's conversations and coming to a conclusion without knowing what was going on.
What people are telling you here, is that any change in the DR need to be as a result of the initiative of the DR and its people. One cannot push a rivier and change cannot be imposed. Having said that, there are excellent organizational and personal initiatives going on all over the island. I would put forward that your claim of being qualified to say anything, leaves much to be desired and frankly, leaves me cold.
I have visited many countries many times. Visits, and living in a place are different experiences. There are many posters that I do not agree with either. This does not make me unable to see their point.
It is the 'passing judgement' thing here that really worries me. And secondly, claiming experience to 'pass judgement'. Sheesh! Get off of this passing judgement business already. It is neither your, nor my job.
There is absolutely nothing wrong in employing servants. Providing a job is certainly not taking advantage of anyone. Most every business in the world employs staff. Household staff are no different. It would be much more profitable to look toward the free zones where employees are receiving very low salaries than to try and mess with the expats that employ staff.
I would say that foreigners certainly had and has a tremendous impact on areas in the DR. In other areas, foreigners have no impact at all. I would say your claims of being qualified to 'pass judgement' are ludicrous and show up your shallow knowledge of the Dominican Republic. The North Coast is not the DR. On a lighter note, I think the 'robbing' is about on a par
Creating level playing fields without taking the broader environment into consideration is really like making a weewee in the ocean. Surely it is not the expats responsibility to create a level playing field. Most long-termers on this board have a little respect for Dominican born people and will not impose their 'solutions' on a people that have the ability to create their own.
I don't see anything wrong in this picture. People were out enjoying themselves in the way that they choose to do so.
There is value in both. But certainly there is no value in listening to other people's conversations and coming to a conclusion without knowing what was going on.
What people are telling you here, is that any change in the DR need to be as a result of the initiative of the DR and its people. One cannot push a rivier and change cannot be imposed. Having said that, there are excellent organizational and personal initiatives going on all over the island. I would put forward that your claim of being qualified to say anything, leaves much to be desired and frankly, leaves me cold.
Sorry about that. The email in the OP was addressed to "Keith" and did mention the UK, so when Marlie suggested the Keith in question was KeithUK, sounded logical.
I just did a check and found alot of Keith's now on the board. Didn't realize there were so many of us! For many years it was pretty much just me... :glasses:
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