Article examining dominican identity

[wventura]

So, this is where you and I kindly agree to part ways. I don't think color or race is something to be celebrated or to have pride on. And even if we would, shouldn't we be free to celebrate whatever heritage we see fit? Or does it have to be the one you like best.

Asking me to celebrate my blackness is akin to telling me to learn how to dance Flamenco. Besides, how I am suppose to celebrate it? and, is there a cake involved?

Come on.

Why not celebrate all of your heritage?? Isnt that what you were all saying before.

In the dominican republic there is an emphasis on european ancestry, and Taino (how ever rediculous that may be), but that is pretty much it.

"I don't think color or race is something to be celebrated or to have pride on."

I said african ancetry. You think Ancestry is not something that someone should take pride in???

 

[wventura]

The Dominican Identity is more complex than Black and White and nobody should describe us as black or white.

Domincans have no problem saying that they are 'white'.

This whole attitude of racial superiority comes from the good old US [not blaming],

Absolute nonsense. THe idea of racial superiority has always been present in the dominican republic. In the D.R whiter is better. "mejorarando la raza", is a national way of thinking. I always wondered why my grandmother always told me to never marry someone who is darker than me.

I agree 100% with Nal0whs, we do celebrate it but in our way.

How so???

I remember when Sammy Sosa first hit 60 homeruns and how the NCAAP publicly harassed him for saying he was Dominican not Black, I forgot who said it but the I will never forget the quote "brother look in the mirror you're black" said the spokesman but in my mind and Sammys he is Dominican first not a color, I do not believe he was saying im not black but saying im not Black-American im Dominican.

No. your mis-quoting him. Sammy says hes "hispanic", before anything.

Also I wish to inform those who keep insisting that Dominicans don't have of trace of Taino blood is false, there are recorded interbreeding between the European men and Taino women, meaning there were many offspring, we might not be like Mexico but there still is existing bloodlines [not in vast majority], as well I would like to point out that when you mix to colors who get a mixture not just one homogenous hue, the color that most Dominicans have is due to this mixture which is not a 100% black or white but what we call Indio referring to our skin tone and not Taino or we would say im not Black im Taino which I have never heard a Dominican say.

The government sponsored creation of the "indio" clasificaition, and the elimination of "mullato", was a deliberate attempt to disparage "blackness". This is documented.

And many dominicans actually do think that they are indian.

I will admit there is racism in the Dominican Republic but it is not as frequent as in the US and most of the time has to do with money and/or a person's educational background.

This is an understatement.

But its besides the subject, which is the lack of pride for african ancestry.

 

[Pib]

You think Ancestry is not something that someone should take pride in???

Not at all.

 

[wventura]

If you're happy identifying with your African roots, by all means be proud...however, Dominicans come in a rainbow of colors and their culture is a true mixture that needs to be viewed as such and not tried to fit it into some people's limited definitions of racial and ethnic identity.

are you implying that dominicans dont have a racial or ethinic identity???

You talk as if race is of no importance to dominicans, which is VERY false.

Color is a domincan OBSESSION.

"Dominicans come in a rainbow of colors and their culture is a true mixture that needs to be viewed as such"

Well domincans generally dont include anything african as being part of that.

 

[Pib]

.

My question has not been answered

...how I am suppose to celebrate it? and, is there a cake involved?

So?

 

[wventura]

The "Unwritten Rule" on DR1,is that,"If you post 3 times in a row,without waiting for a response,you are more interested in your own "Agenda",than in a discussion of the subject! Since on page 3,you have posted 4 times in a row,you must really be "Full-Of-Yourself"!
May I suggest that you get out more?
Dominicans,and a lot of the "Ex-Pats" who prowl this site don't care a whole lot about ancestry,much less "skin color"!
You won't get many "Converts" sermanizing here!
May I suggest a trip to Boston this Friday.You can "Preach To The Choir" there!
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Come on thats not fair.

I have to respond to posts from Several different people. So i have to put more than three.

"Dominicans,and a lot of the "Ex-Pats" who prowl this site don't care a whole lot about ancestry,much less "skin color"!"

Domicans dont care about ancesty and skin color??

Thats the most rediculous thing i ever heard.

 

[Guatiao]

What do you create threads if you do not like the outcome/results you were expecting. What do you wants us Dominicans to say? Are you even Dominican? As a Dominican I believe we do celebrate our cultures in various way, it is not like we dedicate a parade to Spain but yet we don't do one for Africa. Also it would be easier to identify with Spain because it's only one country, Africa has many countries and has more cultural diversity than any other continent, so im guessing you want us Dominicans to celebrate every African country on the map make a great parade for a continent that most Americans don't know about but you want Dominicans to celebrate. African Americans always talk about the motherland yet most never have been and wont survive in Africa, I can tell you this most Dominicans white/black/green or blue can survive in Africa longer than any African American. I'm guessing you want Dominicans to say let's go back to the motherland all of them that make up our genes oh wait which country. In reality Dominicans has a more common culture than African Americans has with their African roots just because we don't say it repeatedly doesn't mean we know it's not their. I have never heard a black Dominican say he was white and everybody has a preference of beauty if a person likes lighter skin it's there problem not yours. This thread remains me of African American struggles and their hate towards any light skin black and the hypocrisy that exists in there culture. To quote Kanye West- "I'ma make sure these light skinned niggaz, Never ever never come back in style" Self hatred of ones culture and miseducation that Blacks and whites have been interbreeding for centuries.

PS Im not dissing African American culture but this issue of judgement mostly happens in their community and they try to enforce their beliefs on Dominicans and how "brainwashed" we are.

I agree with 100% with Naw0ls statement.

 

[NALs]

The $50 Trillion Question is... (notice, its trillions)

wventura claims to be a 2nd generation American of Dominican parents.

Ok. My question is this to you and I would like for you to fully answer it with a real answer, no reverse questions. I need to get a better feeling of your way of thought.

You were born in the USA and despite being born from Dominican parents, your birth certificate, your passport, and your citizenship is of that of an American. Ok.

Because you would like for Dominicans to pick "the culture that fits best" according to your ideology, here is the real question.

Why are you so interested in the DR and its people? Shouldn't you be embracing Hip Hop and your American culture. After all, you are American by birth and since that is more obvious (through your way of thought, your cultural preferrence probably correlates along American lines, and your understanding of the world is probably very Americanize)?

I mean, you tell Dominicans to forget about Spain and Embrace Africa because of their skin color, well I'll tell you to forget about the Dominican Republic and embrace the United States because you are legitimately recognized as an American in the eyes of international laws, etc. Don't pick to embrace both, pick one only and that should be the US of A

If you were to live by what you preach, you would not even be responding on DR1.com because your culture is that of Anglo-America, not Latin America.

Of course, you are going to feel that there is a duty within you to never forget your Dominican roots and you embrace those roots in yourown way, whether it is via a yearly trip to the island or listening to Dominican music or whatever. If you do feel that "duty" to satisfy both of your cultures in your own way, why can't you accept Dominicans in general celebrating their own culture (which is not Spanish or African, but Dominican - Remember, we are an independent country with our own way of life) in their own way?

Am I correct in this or is there some form of hypocrasy floating around here?

BTW, because on the internet is very easy to interpret something as belligerent or insulting, I want you to know that I meant to ask this question in a very relaxed, non-beligerent, intellectual manner. Thank You.

 

[Criss Colon]

If you want Dominicans to "Celebrate" their African Heritage,

Pib has given us the "clue" about how to do it!!!
Make it a Dominican Holiday,and serve "Biscocho"!
Those of you who are not part of the Dominican Culture will have NO IDEA of the importance of "Cake" in this society!!
"Cake" can cause a Dominican to be very HAPPY,if he gets some,or really angry,if he doesn't!
Cut a cake,and Dominicans will appear out of nowhere! Not only will they eat some cake on the spot,they will always grab some to take home! If you mention that you had "cake",and you don't have some with you to share,you are asking for trouble! If you serve cake,and they hear about it,and you didn't tell them,you will lose a friend.At least for a few days!
So serve cake,"Chocolate"in keeping with the "African Heritage" theme,and you will have 100% participation,from even the "Whitest" Dominican!

Cake Rules!
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[wventura]

Besides, how I am suppose to celebrate it? and, is there a cake involved?

I'm going to use Cuba as an example again.

Cuba maintains an afro-descendent identity through language, music, dance, religion, ect.

There are countless afro-cuban writers, poets, all whos writing is centered around the theme promoting and celebrating what they call "afro-cuban" culture. So much afro-centric writing comes out of cuba.

There are the famous "Afro-cuban Allstars"; a group of famous cuban musicians who boast pride of their african ancestry through thier songs.

there are many different Afro-Cuban organizations.

I could go on and on.......African ancestry and heritage is VERY important to cubans, on a national level, and they are very vocal about it.

This is what I mean by "celebrate".


No such things exist in the domincan republic.

And the ironic thing is that the DOmincan republic has a much larger component of african ancestry than cuba does.

 

[wventura]

Because you would like for Dominicans to pick "the culture that fits best" according to your ideology, here is the real question.

??? when did I say this.

Why are you so interested in the DR and its people? Shouldn't you be embracing Hip Hop and your American culture.

Why? Because its my roots. Its my ancetry. Its where most of my family resides.

After all, you are American by birth and since that is more obvious (through your way of thought, your cultural preferrence probably correlates along American lines, and your understanding of the world is probably very Americanize)?

I dont understand what the quetion here is.

What about my "way of thought" is american????

I mean, you tell Dominicans to forget about Spain and Embrace Africa because of their skin color.

When did i say such a thing??? Domincans shouldnt "reject" spain, because its part of their ancestry as well. What I did say is that african ancestry should be of some importance to dominicans because it is such a large ancestral component of the D.R.

well I'll tell you to forget about the Dominican Republic and embrace the United States because you are legitimately recognized as an American in the eyes of international laws, etc. Don't pick to embrace both, pick one only and that should be the US of A

i cant forget about my ancestry. And I dont even know what "american culture" is.

 

[NALs]

So basically, you want Dominicans to be more like Cubans, Americans, Europeans.

You want Dominicans to be liekt he much more "perfect" cultures of the world?

You want Dominicans to stop being Dominicans and instead become something else?

If not, then clarify it because everything that a Dominican is also includes the way he/she looks at the world. One slight change towards another culture and we can see our downward spiral as a nation. I know its premature to make such predictions, but I can happen.

So lets say that Dominicans "celebrate" their African heritage according to your ideology. I guess you would be happy if Dominican neighborhoods were to develop their own regional identity based on the color of people's skin. You'll have the white culture and then the black culture instead of the unified culture that exist in the DR today. You want the DR to become much more divided along race lines based on peoples skin color.

I'll bet that if Dominicans follow your advice, afterwards you'll ask Dominicans to ditch Spanish as their language and embrace some African language. To ditch the guitars and accordions and saxophones in our Merengue and Bachata and simply stick to African instruments and rythims.

I'll bet you'll then ask Dominicans to blame the "white" men for all their problems, blame White Dominicans for all their problems and they should "revolt" by not mixing with them.

I'll bet you'll then ask Dominicans to ditch Arroz con Pollo and ditch Casave and eat more African foods because according to you we are African.

I'll bet that if you were in power, you would be erasing the fact that if it wasn't for Europe, this island would have still been the backwater NATIVE AMERICAN paradise that it was before the Europeans and the Africans came and intermarry and interbreed.

Please, accept the DR how it is. We are not going to change our way of thinking simply to satisfy the rest of the world. Sorry, its not going to happen.

The DR is a wonderful country today, based on the way Dominicans see the world which is reflected in their way of being. By you wanting for Dominicans to be more like the Afro-Americans or Afro-Cubans, you are saying that you don't want this unity that exist in the DR between the races and instead you want the divisions and hatred that exist in countries like the US and Cuba and Brazil among the races.

BTW, you haven't answered my question from a few post behind.

Why are you so interested in the DR? You are an American by birth, so stick to YOUR country which is the USA, not the DR. Forget your connection through your parents, you belong to the USA. Its on your passport, its on your citizenship, its on your birth certificate. You are an American and if you live by what you preach, you would be focusing on celebrating your American culture rather than trying to impose your American ideas on Dominicans who don't see the world the sameway you do.

I'm not trying to be offensive here or beligerent, just trying to make you realize that the DR is not going to change and when it does, its simply going to make things much worst for the poor Dominicans. The country is hurting for the poor due to the strict divisions among wealth, why do you want to divide the country along racial lines as well?

 

[xamaicano]

I'm going to use Cuba as an example again.

Cuba maintains an afro-descendent identity through language, music, dance, religion, ect.

There are countless afro-cuban writers, poets, all whos writing is centered around the theme promoting and celebrating what they call "afro-cuban" culture. So much afro-centric writing comes out of cuba.

There are the famous "Afro-cuban Allstars"; a group of famous cuban musicians who boast pride of their african ancestry through thier songs.

there are many different Afro-Cuban organizations.

I could go on and on.......African ancestry and heritage is VERY important to cubans, on a national level, and they are very vocal about it.

This is what I mean by "celebrate".


No such things exist in the domincan republic.

And the ironic thing is that the DOmincan republic has a much larger component of african ancestry than cuba does.

Yes but, black or darker Cubans are much more marginalized than those in the Dominican Republic. Afrocentrism usually result from not feeling completely part of the dominant culture. It's a coping mechanism. However, I really doubt that African ancestry and heritage is very important to all Cubans. Afrocentrism has not caught on in DR simply because there is less of need.

You are looking at the DR through the perspective of a person living in the States and it's going to be hard for a person living on the island to understand. I grew up in Jamaica and live there until I graduated high school. However when I came to States, being black was not as important a part of my identiy as it was to black Americans, since I did not grow up in a culture that race was in the forefront. I felt no deep connection to Africa (still don't). However, when I return to Jamaica after living in the States for 13 years and I noticed interesting things. At hotels, the maids were usually significantly darker than the front desk clerks. The people in magazines, the people on TV, the wealthier folks mostly consist of lighter people. If your white, you either marry a local white or import one from US or the UK. Never really made connection before because its subtle and general accepted as the way things should be. My point is, even "black" English speaking colonies there is a color hierarchy much like in DR. It's more apparent in DR because there are more lighter people.

I have a question? What would afrocentrism accomplish in DR?

 

[Dominican Tony]

What can i say....

I agree with the last two posts. It seems that there are still some people "troubled" if i may, to see that Dominicans are united as a country and not labeled by their skin color which was something started by the good ol' U.S. of A. where you are asked what "race" you identify yourself with when you sign up to any government service whether it's education or voting. Then again aren't Americans looked at suspiciously around the world these days? or better yet gaining enemies around the world as we speak? it's kind of hypocritical to criticize another country/culture on what they should follow when your own country/culture is the most hated around the world don't you think?
The Dominican culture has been carried around the world by Dominicans that keep close ties to the D.R. and this just shows how united we are.

 

[wventura]

I agree with the last two posts. It seems that there are still some people "troubled" if i may, to see that Dominicans are united as a country and not labeled by their skin color which was something started by the good ol' U.S. of A. where you are asked what "race" you identify yourself with when you sign up to any government service whether it's education or voting. Then again aren't Americans looked at suspiciously around the world these days? or better yet gaining enemies around the world as we speak? it's kind of hypocritical to criticize another country/culture on what they should follow when your own country/culture is the most hated around the world don't you think?
The Dominican culture has been carried around the world by Dominicans that keep close ties to the D.R. and this just shows how united we are.

" agree with the last two posts. It seems that there are still some people "troubled" if i may, to see that Dominicans are united as a country and not labeled by their skin color which was something started by the good ol' U.S. of A. where you are asked what "race" you identify yourself with when you sign up to any government service whether it's education or voting."

This is such incredible bullshit, I cant beleive that you even said it. Dominicans arent labeled by their skin color??? Since when??
Identification cards in the D.R have race on it.

Socially the domincan republic as a whole is absolutely OBSESSED with skin color, To a degree that I havent witnessed anywhere else. The country is an absolute color heirarchy, from the poorest to the most wealthy.

You all act like race is meaningless in the domincan republic, and that could not possibly be more inacurate.

But I wasnt even discussing "race", but rather the lack of recognition and pride, for D.R's african ancestry.

 

[wventura]

You want Dominicans to stop being Dominicans and instead become something else?

NO not at all.

So lets say that Dominicans "celebrate" their African heritage according to your ideology. I guess you would be happy if Dominican neighborhoods were to develop their own regional identity based on the color of people's skin.
You'll have the white culture and then the black culture instead of the unified culture that exist in the DR today. You want the DR to become much more divided along race lines based on peoples skin color.

I dont know where you are getting all of this from. All I said was that, dominicans should take more pride in the fact that they are of african ancestry. This doesnt happen.

They extol spanish, other european, and taino, ancestries, but never african.

And D.R is already divided along racial lines, If you think not you're dreaming.

I'll bet that if Dominicans follow your advice, afterwards you'll ask Dominicans to ditch Spanish as their language and embrace some African language.
To ditch the guitars and accordions and saxophones in our Merengue and Bachata and simply stick to African instruments and rythims.

Once again where do you get this bullshit from. This is what you think, i'm saying, when that it absolutely not the case. Nobody needs to "ditch" anything.

I'll bet that if you were in power, you would be erasing the fact that if it wasn't for Europe, this island would have still been the backwater NATIVE AMERICAN paradise

If it wasnt for Europe, the native american people might still exist. To bad they KILLED them all.

this unity that exist in the DR between the races

Rediculous

BTW, you haven't answered my question from a few post behind.

which question

Why are you so interested in the DR? You are an American by birth, so stick to YOUR country which is the USA.

I answered this question before.

You are an American and if you live by what you preach, you would be focusing on celebrating your American culture

What I have been stressing is the importance for people to have pride in their ancestry. How does that imply what you have just said???

rather than trying to impose your American ideas on Dominicans who don't see the world the sameway you do.

What ideas do i have, that you think are "american".

 

[NALs]

I dont know where you are getting all of this from. All I said was that, dominicans should take more pride in the fact that they are of african ancestry. This doesnt happen.

Many Dominicans have partial African ancestry. Remember, most are mixed not just black and whites, but blacks and middle eastern, middle eastern and whites, etc. There is more to the DR than simple black and white.

And D.R is already divided along racial lines, If you think not you're dreaming.

Didn't you mentioned that you are of a mix (like most Dominicans), you have a blackside and a whiteside. If the country was so divided along racial lines, why is 3/4 of the population mixed? Contrast that to the USA or Cuba or anyother country where each person embraces "his/her culture", the percentage of recongnized mixed folks in those countries is dismal. As if that wasn't enough, the number of mixed folks is under-represented in those countries because many mixed prefer to be called "blacks" simply because their skin color is a shade darker than their white buddies, despite them having white blood in their veins.

If it wasnt for Europe, the native american people might still exist. To bad they KILLED them all.

That's my point! If the Europeans never had expanded into the New World with Santo Domingo leading the expansion (every major region of the hemisphere except North America north of Florida was discovered by Europeans leaving Santo Domingo) and you would have never come into existence because in order for you and everything that is Dominican to have come into existence, the country had to develop and believe in what it has become today. If it wasn't for the mixture and the lack of attention to race, you would not have been born because you yourself have mentioned that you are mixed, like many Dominicans.

What ideas do i have, that you think are "american".

Re-read all of your post and re-read the post of others that follow. You will notice that you (the Dominicanyork) have a very American mindset unlike the Dominicans of the island responding here and those foreigners that are Dominicans at heart. Don't ask me where I get the idea that your mindset is severely Americanized, just re-read what you post.

 

[NALs]

Let me clarify my understanding of this...

Your case: Dominicans should embrace their African heritage more like the Afro-American, Afro-Cubans, etc. embrace it.

My case: Dominicans don't need to embrace their African heritage like anybody else. Dominicans are embracing what they are everyday by practicing their Dominicanidad. Dominicanidad or Dominican culture is the result of mixing of different habits and things from all the cultures that have called the DR home. Every Dominican (white, black, japanese, chinese, or middle eastern) who practices Dominicanidad, is in fact embracing the cultural malaise that makes up the country.

That seems most fitting because most Dominicans are a mixture of things, as such it becomes the most appropriate.

Dominicans are not better than the rest of the world and the rest of the world is not better than Dominicans. We are just different, and as such celebrate different aspects of our society in our own way.

Now, that Dominicans claim their European roots before their African roots is a different matter, the reality is that every Dominican does celebrates the diversity of our country every time he/she dances to a Merengue or Bachata, eats Dominican food, Enjoys popular sports, etc.

 

[mariposa]

Much more than a Color

If I look at my skin color it is not white, it is not black, IT is a mixed, neither, my eyes are hazel but my hair is more curly then straight. What does that make me? I do not celebrate Spain or Africa, I celebrate, above anything else being Dominican. Speaking Spanish, Dancing a good bachata or merengue, the generosity and friendliness of my people, the pride I feel when one of my has success.

I do not celebrate my african ancestry because I do not have it, I do not celebrate Spaniards' ancestry because I do not have it, I don't celebrate it because I am more Dominican than anything else. Wearing chancletas, desrizandome el pelo, eating habichuelas con dulce, my family is not made of white or blacks, is made of people who are proud to be who they are and work hard everyday.

Don't stereotype me of being black or white or blue, I refuse to be acknowledge by skin color, but do stereotype me of being Dominican, I'm proud of it!

 

[juancarlos]

If I look at my skin color it is not white, it is not black, IT is a mixed, neither, my eyes are hazel but my hair is more curly then straight. What does that make me? I do not celebrate Spain or Africa, I celebrate, above anything else being Dominican. Speaking Spanish, Dancing a good bachata or merengue, the generosity and friendliness of my people, the pride I feel when one of my has success.

I do not celebrate my african ancestry because I do not have it, I do not celebrate Spaniards' ancestry because I do not have it, I don't celebrate it because I am more Dominican than anything else. Wearing chancletas, desrizandome el pelo, eating habichuelas con dulce, my family is not made of white or blacks, is made of people who are proud to be who they are and work hard everyday.

Don't stereotype me of being black or white or blue, I refuse to be acknowledge by skin color, but do stereotype me of being Dominican, I'm proud of it!

Wow, Mariposa, that was beautiful! I think you are a poet!