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Article examining dominican identity
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Dominicano y con orgullo......
Simply put by Mariposa; the fact to the matter is that us Dominicans are proud of who we are. Please don't criticize another culture so much and from my understanding you're a Dominican-American if i'm not mistaken? i'm a Dominican-American as well and i'll be the first to defend the Dominican Republic before anything because it's a pride to come from such a diverse mixture that makes us Dominicans unique and proud of who we are regardless of skin color.
If you are so bothered by the Dominican culture why don't you just "adopt" another culture, after all there's plenty of them here in the U.S.A.
Simply put by Mariposa; the fact to the matter is that us Dominicans are proud of who we are. Please don't criticize another culture so much and from my understanding you're a Dominican-American if i'm not mistaken? i'm a Dominican-American as well and i'll be the first to defend the Dominican Republic before anything because it's a pride to come from such a diverse mixture that makes us Dominicans unique and proud of who we are regardless of skin color.
If you are so bothered by the Dominican culture why don't you just "adopt" another culture, after all there's plenty of them here in the U.S.A.
Different cultures
I agree with you guys, very well said.I believe that the one who is really bothered by dominican culture is Mrs. Dawn Stinchcomb who claims that most dominicans deny their african heritage. She cannot pretend to understand how dominicans think by just mingling with the offshore dominican colony of NY in the US or wherever there are others settled and reading a few works of some radical dominican historians, maybe if she had lived in the DR she would have gotten in contact with DR culture and reality at first hand and she would have another impression of dominican society not too distant from reality. As others in this thread have already mentioned, is there is one thing dominicans are proud of is their mixture of races, and that includes the african heritage. What must be accepted as a fact is that us dominicans recognize our african roots or heritage in a completely different manner than our north american brothers. That's why they are not the same culture but different ones.
I agree with you guys, very well said.I believe that the one who is really bothered by dominican culture is Mrs. Dawn Stinchcomb who claims that most dominicans deny their african heritage. She cannot pretend to understand how dominicans think by just mingling with the offshore dominican colony of NY in the US or wherever there are others settled and reading a few works of some radical dominican historians, maybe if she had lived in the DR she would have gotten in contact with DR culture and reality at first hand and she would have another impression of dominican society not too distant from reality. As others in this thread have already mentioned, is there is one thing dominicans are proud of is their mixture of races, and that includes the african heritage. What must be accepted as a fact is that us dominicans recognize our african roots or heritage in a completely different manner than our north american brothers. That's why they are not the same culture but different ones.
Humm, this is a very hot topic, which unfortunately I don't have the time or stamina to participate in. I will reserve my opinions, but here is a most interesting article published two years ago that I hope will shed some light not so much on Dominican racial identity, but rather on the intra-relations among people of color in the US. There is a lot of food for thought here.
"The more that you read, the more things you will know.
The more that you learn, the more places you'll go." Dr Seuss
A Diverse -- and Divided -- Black Community
As Foreign-Born Population Grows, Nationality Trumps Skin Color _____Special Report_____
By Darryl Fears
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, February 24, 2002; Page A01
NEW YORK -- Nearly two decades have passed since Odehyee Abena Owiredua arrived here from Ghana, yet she can't truly say she has lived the black American experience.
She once rented an apartment in Harlem, but "I didn't feel comfortable around African Americans," she said. And though friends believe she resembles the strikingly attractive hip-hop singer Lauryn Hill, she said, "I have not dated an African American, because very, very few approach me."
"I love black people, but there is a negative relationship between immigrants and African Americans," said Abena Owiredua, 34. "They look down at me, not at me. I feel inferior around them. It's the ignorant questions I get. 'Do you guys live in houses over there?' When I get those kinds of questions from black Americans, I feel very hurt."
As she talked on the dimly lit mezzanine of the Times Square hotel where she works, Abena Owiredua described a little-known reality: America's black community, which now includes more West Indian and African immigrants than ever, is no longer the monolithic group that many politicians, civil rights advocates and demographers say it is.
A new African American community is being forged, sociologists and anthropologists say, in which culture and nationality are becoming more important than skin color. It is as diverse -- and as divided -- as the Latino community or the Asian American community, each made up of migrants from numerous nations.
In Miami, the West Indian population -- now 48 percent of the black community -- is expected to surpass the native-born African American population within eight years, according to Census Bureau projections. In New York City, nearly one-third of the black population is foreign-born, according to an analysis by demographer William H. Frey. And an analysis of census figures by the Boston Globe showed that one-third of the black population in Massachusetts is foreign-born.
The foreign-born black populations of Washington and Maryland are steadily growing, according to Frey's analysis of 1970 Census data and the 2001 Current Population Survey.
In Washington, nearly 8 percent of the black population is foreign-born, up from 1 percent in 1970. In Maryland, more than 5 percent of black adults are foreign-born, compared with one-half percent three decades ago. Virginia's black immigrant population remains small, up to only 2 percent from one-half percent in 1970.
"This is an important story for demographers and policymakers who are used to lumping together the black population," said Frey, a white University of Michigan demographer. "The foreign-born African Americans and native-born African Americans are becoming as different from each other as foreign-born and native-born whites, in terms of culture, social status, aspirations and how they think of themselves."
In New York, the brown-complexioned man or woman on the street could easily be Haitian, Jamaican, Senegalese or Nigerian. In Boston, they may be Cape Verdean. In Washington, they might be Ethiopian, Eritrean or Somali.
Yves Colon, a Haitian immigrant who grew up in Brooklyn and now lives in Miami, said black students at his high school thought "I was just another brother until I opened my mouth." Donnette Dunbar of Harlem said black Americans seem surprised when she returns their greetings with an accent flavored by Jamaican patois.
"Black is very diversified," said Flore Zephir, a Haitian who is an associate professor of Romance languages at the University of Missouri. "White people don't see it because they lump everyone together and don't take into account nationality and culture. Haitians resent being lumped together with other groups. This doesn't mean they don't know they're black. They consider the classification that you're either black or you're white very nefarious." And therein lies the root of the conflict.
Unity and Diversity
That black-white classification is uniquely American, a fact of history that has persisted since it was laid down by Virginia slaveholders in the 1700s. Black Americans, no matter how dark or light complexioned, were united in their suffering.
By the 1950s, historians say, black unity led to the formation of the modern civil rights movement and created a powerful Democratic voting bloc to fight white oppression. In the '60s, black unity became "Black Power" and "Black Is Beautiful." Black people acknowledged each other as "brothers," developed elaborate handshakes ending in hugs and spoke slang to communicate dissenting thoughts past the ears of white people.
But the fact of black unity in everyday life, and the history that led to it, was lost on many of the black foreigners who started arriving in droves after the 1965 Immigration Act -- which African Americans were instrumental in getting passed.
Unlike black people in the United States, West Indians and Africans grew up among black majorities that were ruled by black governments. "Black Is Beautiful" was a given, as was black pride, because there was no white-imposed segregation after their liberation from slavery and colonialism.
It almost goes without saying that black people of all persuasions also share a bond, said Jemima Pierre, a Haitian American and doctoral candidate in the African diaspora program at the University of Texas in Austin. She mentioned Jamaican Marcus Garvey, who founded the Universal Negro Improvement Association and its Black Star shipping line during the Harlem Renaissance for return trips to Africa.
Randall Robinson in 1977 founded TransAfrica, an organization dedicated to black causes and bringing together people of African origin. In Ghana, the Pan African Congress concerns itself with African American affairs every time it meets. In pop culture, two of the most popular black hip-hop artists are a Haitian, Lauryn Hill, and a Jamaican, Trevor Smith, also known as Busta Rhymes..
While researching a book on Haitians, Flore Zephir found that those who grew up in the United States were less critical of African Americans than their elders. "They tend to want to identify with African Americans," she said. "They do not have an accent, so they know they can pass as African American. They change the pronunciations of their names. Michel becomes Michael, Pierre becomes Peter, Mathieu becomes Matthew."
Garry Pierre-Pierre, editor of the Haitian Times in New York, said he grew to see America differently than his mother, who was slightly suspicious of African Americans.
"You see white Americans point to foreign-born blacks as role models," he said. "But there's a hypocrisy in their selection of this role-model immigrant. Haitians are being shot down by police just like African Americans."
The New York chapter of the NAACP joined Haitian and African organizations in protesting New York police treatment of Haitian Abner Louima, who was sodomized with a nightstick in 1997, and Amadou Diallo, an unarmed immigrant from Guinea who was shot dead by detectives on the front stoop of his Bronx apartment building two years later. But lately, the issues that divide the black community in New York have attracted almost as much attention as the incidents that bring them together.
Mutual Suspicion
Last year's Democratic primary between Una Clarke, a Jamaican American, and Rep. Major R. Owens, a black American, ranked as one of the nastiest fights ever over a congressional seat in the Flatbush section of Brooklyn.
During a forum, Clarke, a former City Council member, declared, "I'm not a black American. I identify as a black person, but you cannot take my identity and call me something else." She also said Owens was almost dismissive when it came to immigration issues West Indians care about.
Owens won the race by garnering votes from black and white Americans. In the process, he labeled Clarke, his former prot?g?, a liar. He also compared her campaign for West Indian votes to Nazism.
"Whether it's [Joerg] Haider in Austria or Adolf Hitler," Owens said, "when you appeal to ethnic loyalties as a way to ascend to power, it is the worst possible way to come to power." Owens is a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, made up of black politicians who campaign hard on black issues to get black votes.
In North Miami, Josaphat "Joe" Celestin, a Haitian American, became the city's first black mayor after an election in May. It was an extraordinary achievement for Haitians, who were long denied immigration status by the United States even as white Cubans were welcomed into South Florida. But along with cheers, Celestin was greeted by a barrage of telephone threats and racial epithets -- from black Americans.
"It's shocking, the amount of animosity and suspicion," said Marvin Dunn, chairman of the psychology department at Florida International University in Miami. Dunn studied the divide between African Americans and West Indians when Haitian and black American students brawled in Miami public schools in the 1980s.
"Whether you talk to Haitians, Bahamians, Jamaicans or Africans about African Americans, you hear the same things," Dunn said. " 'They are violent, they don't respect their elders, they have no sense of family, they don't want to work, they depend on welfare.' "
Black Americans are no more tolerant of immigrants, Dunn said. "When you talk to African Americans about the immigrants, you hear, 'They're here to take our jobs. They'll work for nothing. They're cliquish. They smell. They eat dogs. They think they're better than us,' " he said. "There's no moral high ground here."
Sometimes, even love doesn't lead to an answer, Dunn said: "There's much more intermarriage and dating between black groups than blacks and whites, but not all that much. I wouldn't overstate the point.
"A Haitian wants his daughter to marry a Haitian. A Bahamian wants their daughter to marry a Bahamian. The reverse is also true. African American mothers tell their sons that Haitian girls are not clean."
Courtship Amid Conflict
Detroit native Sunni Khalid learned that things were not so different in Africa when he interned at the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi in 1982. While walking to work one day, he saw Zeinab Said, a striking Somali, from across the street and followed her to work.
He quickly learned that like most Somalis, Said is extraordinarily proud of her heritage. It took everything he had learned of African history at Howard and Johns Hopkins universities to convince her that he could understand her more than most foreigners.
But that was only the first barrier the couple had to overcome. Said's relatives, especially her brother-in-law, frowned on the affair, calling Khalid the son of a slave.
"They wanted me to marry a Somali," she said. Soon, Somali men she did not know were knocking on her door. "I didn't want to marry someone simply because he was a Somali," Said said. The brother-in-law forbade Said's sister from attending the wedding.
When Khalid and Said moved to Washington in 1983, she was startled to see so many black people in her new home. But she quickly discovered that they were not nearly as knowledgeable about Africa as her husband.
Once, Said mentioned to an African American woman that she is a Somali and had lived in Africa. When the woman asked, "Do you speak the ooga-booga language?" Said was startled. "What's that?" Said asked.
She speaks three languages -- Somali, Swahili and English -- and at the time knew nothing of Tarzan movies, where such insulting characterizations of African language can be heard.
Meanwhile, Khalid had his own problems at Howard University. Black women he knew looked past his wife's chocolate-colored skin and focused on her narrow nose, straight hair and thin lips. "Sunni has gone and married a white black woman," he recalled a friend saying. He lowered his head for shame while recounting the story at his Baltimore home.
His wife stiffened with indignation. "What is a European feature?" she demanded. "What is an African feature? It is an insult to a Somali for someone to ask if you are half-Indian, the way African Americans do. I am not an Indian. I am not white. Only in America. When I walk in London, no one would mistake me for a Nigerian. They look at me and say, 'You are Somali.' It's education, education, education!"
But little is taught of Africa or African Americans in U.S. schools, said Pierre, the anthropologist -- an almost exclusive emphasis on white American and European history is a legacy of second-class citizenship that African Americans endure.
After arriving in America, masses of impoverished West Indians and Africans see a land of plenty -- and don't understand why black natives haven't flourished. The immigrants don't realize that black Americans were enslaved the longest, and that after emancipation, they lived under legal segregation.
What most African Americans know of black immigrants comes from foreign news accounts and Hollywood, Pierre said. She was hard pressed to recall a major motion picture about Africa -- "Out of Africa," "Gorillas in the Mist," "I Dreamed of Africa," "Congo" -- that was not set in the jungle.
"Think about it," she said. "If you're being bombarded by these images of poor, destituted countries, you don't want to be associated with that. Think about Tarzan in Africa. You don't want to be associated with all those people who were depicted as savages. All you know of Africa is primitives, war, destitution, hunger."
Last year, Will Smith, the black American actor, traveled to Mozambique for the first time during the filming of "Ali." "Everything I knew about Africa was a solid 80 percent false," he told a reporter for the Los Angeles Times. "I was embarrassed when I realized there were tall buildings and Mercedes and big cities and fine women.
"I was so miseducated," Smith said. "It has the best and worst of everything. It's like God visits everywhere else, but he lives in Africa."
Ethiopian Lily Assegid said Africans also stubbornly hold on to stereotypes. But as in Smith's case, she said, they can fade away with time.
"When our parents came to this country in the 1950s," Assegid said, "many of them went to white schools, the better schools, and didn't interact with African Americans. What they were learning about African Americans was very prejudiced.
"But they didn't see themselves as what they were hearing African Americans get called," Assegid said. "They said, 'No, no, no, we're Ethiopians. We're Africans. We're different.' They would go back home and spread these stories."
Now, living in Washington, Assegid doesn't believe a word her parents and others said. "As far as I'm concerned, African Americans are as much a part of Africa as a newborn child right now," she said. "They're a part of the people. The only difference is the culture they were born into. I believe that for all black people."
"The more that you read, the more things you will know.
The more that you learn, the more places you'll go." Dr Seuss
A Diverse -- and Divided -- Black Community
As Foreign-Born Population Grows, Nationality Trumps Skin Color _____Special Report_____
By Darryl Fears
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, February 24, 2002; Page A01
NEW YORK -- Nearly two decades have passed since Odehyee Abena Owiredua arrived here from Ghana, yet she can't truly say she has lived the black American experience.
She once rented an apartment in Harlem, but "I didn't feel comfortable around African Americans," she said. And though friends believe she resembles the strikingly attractive hip-hop singer Lauryn Hill, she said, "I have not dated an African American, because very, very few approach me."
"I love black people, but there is a negative relationship between immigrants and African Americans," said Abena Owiredua, 34. "They look down at me, not at me. I feel inferior around them. It's the ignorant questions I get. 'Do you guys live in houses over there?' When I get those kinds of questions from black Americans, I feel very hurt."
As she talked on the dimly lit mezzanine of the Times Square hotel where she works, Abena Owiredua described a little-known reality: America's black community, which now includes more West Indian and African immigrants than ever, is no longer the monolithic group that many politicians, civil rights advocates and demographers say it is.
A new African American community is being forged, sociologists and anthropologists say, in which culture and nationality are becoming more important than skin color. It is as diverse -- and as divided -- as the Latino community or the Asian American community, each made up of migrants from numerous nations.
In Miami, the West Indian population -- now 48 percent of the black community -- is expected to surpass the native-born African American population within eight years, according to Census Bureau projections. In New York City, nearly one-third of the black population is foreign-born, according to an analysis by demographer William H. Frey. And an analysis of census figures by the Boston Globe showed that one-third of the black population in Massachusetts is foreign-born.
The foreign-born black populations of Washington and Maryland are steadily growing, according to Frey's analysis of 1970 Census data and the 2001 Current Population Survey.
In Washington, nearly 8 percent of the black population is foreign-born, up from 1 percent in 1970. In Maryland, more than 5 percent of black adults are foreign-born, compared with one-half percent three decades ago. Virginia's black immigrant population remains small, up to only 2 percent from one-half percent in 1970.
"This is an important story for demographers and policymakers who are used to lumping together the black population," said Frey, a white University of Michigan demographer. "The foreign-born African Americans and native-born African Americans are becoming as different from each other as foreign-born and native-born whites, in terms of culture, social status, aspirations and how they think of themselves."
In New York, the brown-complexioned man or woman on the street could easily be Haitian, Jamaican, Senegalese or Nigerian. In Boston, they may be Cape Verdean. In Washington, they might be Ethiopian, Eritrean or Somali.
Yves Colon, a Haitian immigrant who grew up in Brooklyn and now lives in Miami, said black students at his high school thought "I was just another brother until I opened my mouth." Donnette Dunbar of Harlem said black Americans seem surprised when she returns their greetings with an accent flavored by Jamaican patois.
"Black is very diversified," said Flore Zephir, a Haitian who is an associate professor of Romance languages at the University of Missouri. "White people don't see it because they lump everyone together and don't take into account nationality and culture. Haitians resent being lumped together with other groups. This doesn't mean they don't know they're black. They consider the classification that you're either black or you're white very nefarious." And therein lies the root of the conflict.
Unity and Diversity
That black-white classification is uniquely American, a fact of history that has persisted since it was laid down by Virginia slaveholders in the 1700s. Black Americans, no matter how dark or light complexioned, were united in their suffering.
By the 1950s, historians say, black unity led to the formation of the modern civil rights movement and created a powerful Democratic voting bloc to fight white oppression. In the '60s, black unity became "Black Power" and "Black Is Beautiful." Black people acknowledged each other as "brothers," developed elaborate handshakes ending in hugs and spoke slang to communicate dissenting thoughts past the ears of white people.
But the fact of black unity in everyday life, and the history that led to it, was lost on many of the black foreigners who started arriving in droves after the 1965 Immigration Act -- which African Americans were instrumental in getting passed.
Unlike black people in the United States, West Indians and Africans grew up among black majorities that were ruled by black governments. "Black Is Beautiful" was a given, as was black pride, because there was no white-imposed segregation after their liberation from slavery and colonialism.
It almost goes without saying that black people of all persuasions also share a bond, said Jemima Pierre, a Haitian American and doctoral candidate in the African diaspora program at the University of Texas in Austin. She mentioned Jamaican Marcus Garvey, who founded the Universal Negro Improvement Association and its Black Star shipping line during the Harlem Renaissance for return trips to Africa.
Randall Robinson in 1977 founded TransAfrica, an organization dedicated to black causes and bringing together people of African origin. In Ghana, the Pan African Congress concerns itself with African American affairs every time it meets. In pop culture, two of the most popular black hip-hop artists are a Haitian, Lauryn Hill, and a Jamaican, Trevor Smith, also known as Busta Rhymes..
While researching a book on Haitians, Flore Zephir found that those who grew up in the United States were less critical of African Americans than their elders. "They tend to want to identify with African Americans," she said. "They do not have an accent, so they know they can pass as African American. They change the pronunciations of their names. Michel becomes Michael, Pierre becomes Peter, Mathieu becomes Matthew."
Garry Pierre-Pierre, editor of the Haitian Times in New York, said he grew to see America differently than his mother, who was slightly suspicious of African Americans.
"You see white Americans point to foreign-born blacks as role models," he said. "But there's a hypocrisy in their selection of this role-model immigrant. Haitians are being shot down by police just like African Americans."
The New York chapter of the NAACP joined Haitian and African organizations in protesting New York police treatment of Haitian Abner Louima, who was sodomized with a nightstick in 1997, and Amadou Diallo, an unarmed immigrant from Guinea who was shot dead by detectives on the front stoop of his Bronx apartment building two years later. But lately, the issues that divide the black community in New York have attracted almost as much attention as the incidents that bring them together.
Mutual Suspicion
Last year's Democratic primary between Una Clarke, a Jamaican American, and Rep. Major R. Owens, a black American, ranked as one of the nastiest fights ever over a congressional seat in the Flatbush section of Brooklyn.
During a forum, Clarke, a former City Council member, declared, "I'm not a black American. I identify as a black person, but you cannot take my identity and call me something else." She also said Owens was almost dismissive when it came to immigration issues West Indians care about.
Owens won the race by garnering votes from black and white Americans. In the process, he labeled Clarke, his former prot?g?, a liar. He also compared her campaign for West Indian votes to Nazism.
"Whether it's [Joerg] Haider in Austria or Adolf Hitler," Owens said, "when you appeal to ethnic loyalties as a way to ascend to power, it is the worst possible way to come to power." Owens is a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, made up of black politicians who campaign hard on black issues to get black votes.
In North Miami, Josaphat "Joe" Celestin, a Haitian American, became the city's first black mayor after an election in May. It was an extraordinary achievement for Haitians, who were long denied immigration status by the United States even as white Cubans were welcomed into South Florida. But along with cheers, Celestin was greeted by a barrage of telephone threats and racial epithets -- from black Americans.
"It's shocking, the amount of animosity and suspicion," said Marvin Dunn, chairman of the psychology department at Florida International University in Miami. Dunn studied the divide between African Americans and West Indians when Haitian and black American students brawled in Miami public schools in the 1980s.
"Whether you talk to Haitians, Bahamians, Jamaicans or Africans about African Americans, you hear the same things," Dunn said. " 'They are violent, they don't respect their elders, they have no sense of family, they don't want to work, they depend on welfare.' "
Black Americans are no more tolerant of immigrants, Dunn said. "When you talk to African Americans about the immigrants, you hear, 'They're here to take our jobs. They'll work for nothing. They're cliquish. They smell. They eat dogs. They think they're better than us,' " he said. "There's no moral high ground here."
Sometimes, even love doesn't lead to an answer, Dunn said: "There's much more intermarriage and dating between black groups than blacks and whites, but not all that much. I wouldn't overstate the point.
"A Haitian wants his daughter to marry a Haitian. A Bahamian wants their daughter to marry a Bahamian. The reverse is also true. African American mothers tell their sons that Haitian girls are not clean."
Courtship Amid Conflict
Detroit native Sunni Khalid learned that things were not so different in Africa when he interned at the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi in 1982. While walking to work one day, he saw Zeinab Said, a striking Somali, from across the street and followed her to work.
He quickly learned that like most Somalis, Said is extraordinarily proud of her heritage. It took everything he had learned of African history at Howard and Johns Hopkins universities to convince her that he could understand her more than most foreigners.
But that was only the first barrier the couple had to overcome. Said's relatives, especially her brother-in-law, frowned on the affair, calling Khalid the son of a slave.
"They wanted me to marry a Somali," she said. Soon, Somali men she did not know were knocking on her door. "I didn't want to marry someone simply because he was a Somali," Said said. The brother-in-law forbade Said's sister from attending the wedding.
When Khalid and Said moved to Washington in 1983, she was startled to see so many black people in her new home. But she quickly discovered that they were not nearly as knowledgeable about Africa as her husband.
Once, Said mentioned to an African American woman that she is a Somali and had lived in Africa. When the woman asked, "Do you speak the ooga-booga language?" Said was startled. "What's that?" Said asked.
She speaks three languages -- Somali, Swahili and English -- and at the time knew nothing of Tarzan movies, where such insulting characterizations of African language can be heard.
Meanwhile, Khalid had his own problems at Howard University. Black women he knew looked past his wife's chocolate-colored skin and focused on her narrow nose, straight hair and thin lips. "Sunni has gone and married a white black woman," he recalled a friend saying. He lowered his head for shame while recounting the story at his Baltimore home.
His wife stiffened with indignation. "What is a European feature?" she demanded. "What is an African feature? It is an insult to a Somali for someone to ask if you are half-Indian, the way African Americans do. I am not an Indian. I am not white. Only in America. When I walk in London, no one would mistake me for a Nigerian. They look at me and say, 'You are Somali.' It's education, education, education!"
But little is taught of Africa or African Americans in U.S. schools, said Pierre, the anthropologist -- an almost exclusive emphasis on white American and European history is a legacy of second-class citizenship that African Americans endure.
After arriving in America, masses of impoverished West Indians and Africans see a land of plenty -- and don't understand why black natives haven't flourished. The immigrants don't realize that black Americans were enslaved the longest, and that after emancipation, they lived under legal segregation.
What most African Americans know of black immigrants comes from foreign news accounts and Hollywood, Pierre said. She was hard pressed to recall a major motion picture about Africa -- "Out of Africa," "Gorillas in the Mist," "I Dreamed of Africa," "Congo" -- that was not set in the jungle.
"Think about it," she said. "If you're being bombarded by these images of poor, destituted countries, you don't want to be associated with that. Think about Tarzan in Africa. You don't want to be associated with all those people who were depicted as savages. All you know of Africa is primitives, war, destitution, hunger."
Last year, Will Smith, the black American actor, traveled to Mozambique for the first time during the filming of "Ali." "Everything I knew about Africa was a solid 80 percent false," he told a reporter for the Los Angeles Times. "I was embarrassed when I realized there were tall buildings and Mercedes and big cities and fine women.
"I was so miseducated," Smith said. "It has the best and worst of everything. It's like God visits everywhere else, but he lives in Africa."
Ethiopian Lily Assegid said Africans also stubbornly hold on to stereotypes. But as in Smith's case, she said, they can fade away with time.
"When our parents came to this country in the 1950s," Assegid said, "many of them went to white schools, the better schools, and didn't interact with African Americans. What they were learning about African Americans was very prejudiced.
"But they didn't see themselves as what they were hearing African Americans get called," Assegid said. "They said, 'No, no, no, we're Ethiopians. We're Africans. We're different.' They would go back home and spread these stories."
Now, living in Washington, Assegid doesn't believe a word her parents and others said. "As far as I'm concerned, African Americans are as much a part of Africa as a newborn child right now," she said. "They're a part of the people. The only difference is the culture they were born into. I believe that for all black people."
Making sense of this all...
Thanks for the article. There have been a few articles that have come out on this topic in the last few years. Interestingly enough a good friend of mine was recently quoted in the NYTimes on her trend-setting BA thesis from Harvard (under Mary Waters/Lani Guinier) which pre-dated a lot of the current dialogue on foreign-born vs long-staying Black Americans. While there is a chism with how Dominicans on the island and race-conscious Dominican-Americans view race and racial pride, have Dominicans (and other immigrants of African descent) who have succeeded in the US ever questioned their privilege to access the US power structure?
The fact is that while Dominicans come with this one love/I am not Black attitude to the states (and some even successfully-sadly- pass it down to their children), if they had come in 1960 (as the few who experienced this can tell you) they would have had to FEEL and EXPERIENCE the social segregation of the times. For Dominicans to come to the US and ignore race is a disrespect to all that Black Americans have accomplished and to which they are entitled to benefit from. What does this mean in real terms? This translates to the fact that redlining is prohibited when you buy a house, you can be a corporate CEO, you can obtain bank loans to start up your Bodega/ business, etc. My friend's thesis survey results showed that the students of color that benefit from affirmative-action educational programs at Harvard are predominantly first/second generation immigrants NOT the targeted group of older generational African-Americans. If people take a moment to think about it, this is deep. This means that we as Dominicans are being hypocritical of the advantages available to us in the US. So do we remember our color only when it is "convenient?" If so, this is not right.
While there may be a few Dominicans that can say they are "pure" white Dominicans (because of racist practices, social class preservation or whatever) and others comment on the lightness of their eyes, the straightness of their hair, the fineness of their nose/lips, many more never comment on the beauty of their kinky hair, full shaped lips, rounded thighs and arse. These social perceptions are observable in the low-self-esteem dialogue "feo pero sabroso" used. El complejo total de echarse al menos and give access to whites just because....they are white. Those on the benefitting end have no incentive to see this social practice end.
When comparing the social strata in the DR with the country's racial make up it is clear that Dominicans are tapando el sol con un dedo. Well, if Dominicans want to come to the US and take advantage of what the US has to offer then they need to recognize de donde viene la leche que da la vaca. A first step is embracing your Africaness openly and not just pointing out "lo fino de ti."
Peace
Deelt
Thanks for the article. There have been a few articles that have come out on this topic in the last few years. Interestingly enough a good friend of mine was recently quoted in the NYTimes on her trend-setting BA thesis from Harvard (under Mary Waters/Lani Guinier) which pre-dated a lot of the current dialogue on foreign-born vs long-staying Black Americans. While there is a chism with how Dominicans on the island and race-conscious Dominican-Americans view race and racial pride, have Dominicans (and other immigrants of African descent) who have succeeded in the US ever questioned their privilege to access the US power structure?
The fact is that while Dominicans come with this one love/I am not Black attitude to the states (and some even successfully-sadly- pass it down to their children), if they had come in 1960 (as the few who experienced this can tell you) they would have had to FEEL and EXPERIENCE the social segregation of the times. For Dominicans to come to the US and ignore race is a disrespect to all that Black Americans have accomplished and to which they are entitled to benefit from. What does this mean in real terms? This translates to the fact that redlining is prohibited when you buy a house, you can be a corporate CEO, you can obtain bank loans to start up your Bodega/ business, etc. My friend's thesis survey results showed that the students of color that benefit from affirmative-action educational programs at Harvard are predominantly first/second generation immigrants NOT the targeted group of older generational African-Americans. If people take a moment to think about it, this is deep. This means that we as Dominicans are being hypocritical of the advantages available to us in the US. So do we remember our color only when it is "convenient?" If so, this is not right.
While there may be a few Dominicans that can say they are "pure" white Dominicans (because of racist practices, social class preservation or whatever) and others comment on the lightness of their eyes, the straightness of their hair, the fineness of their nose/lips, many more never comment on the beauty of their kinky hair, full shaped lips, rounded thighs and arse. These social perceptions are observable in the low-self-esteem dialogue "feo pero sabroso" used. El complejo total de echarse al menos and give access to whites just because....they are white. Those on the benefitting end have no incentive to see this social practice end.
When comparing the social strata in the DR with the country's racial make up it is clear that Dominicans are tapando el sol con un dedo. Well, if Dominicans want to come to the US and take advantage of what the US has to offer then they need to recognize de donde viene la leche que da la vaca. A first step is embracing your Africaness openly and not just pointing out "lo fino de ti."
Peace
Deelt
dcareamama said:
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Sudan (African Country) is currently committing a Holocaust of great proportion to black people, and the world is hardly trying to stop it.
Haiti (Black Caribbean Republic) flared up earlier this year and the US was reluctant to help out in that situation.
Kosovo (White European Country) tried to create another holocaust and within weeks, the international community "went to the rescue".
Like I said before, Dominicans already celebrate their MIXTURE by embracing their culture which is a mix of all the cultures that have influence the DR.
However, many still want Dominicans to be more like "other" people in celebrating their African heritage. I wonder, what are the positive things for the country that would come out of that? Please, pin point to economic and cultural progress of such thing?
Aside from satisfying the rest of the world's ideology of what the world should be, all I see is a downhill battle of ignoring all influences in the DR except that of Africa and ignoring the fact that the DR is a mixture!
This issue of Africa vs. Europe would not had come up if the DR would have been more "pure" like Haiti (ie. mostly Africans) or Chile (ie. mostly Europeans). The truth is that the DR is mixed and that can't be denied.
It will be a sad day when Dominicans focus on celebrating their African heritage according to the rest of the world's doctrine on how it should be celebrated. That will be the begining of the end of the DR in my opinion. The DR is much more developed than any black country on earth and the fact that we have European blood mixed in has a lot to do with it, aid flows easier to the DR than to most black countries. Look at our neighbor, Haiti. Also, it would be a shame that this melting pot of country, where people from all over the world have come and intermingled and intermarried and interbreed, would have to ignore its mixture and diversity and focus on Africa, simply because many foreigners don't recognize Dominican culture as a mix of things, despite the evidence such as in Merengue.
This reminds me of the new wig crisis in Israel. Apparently, many Israelis who were having Hairloss problems were buying wigs made from Hair of Indians (from India). Recently, some religious person said that Indian hair is not "kosher" enough because they are infidels in the eyes of Jews, instead they should buy from Westerners who have more "Kosher" hair. Now in Isreal, everybody is dumping their Indian hair and instead buying wigs made in Europe because European hair is much more "Kosher".
That is exactly what many of you uncomformists are trying to do. Now that Dominicans are fully embracing their culture, which is a mixture of things and in fact, if they embrace their culture they are embracing their mixed heritage. Now that Dominicans are embracing and celebrating who they are, now come these uncomformists and tell us that we have it all wrong. They tell us that we are not mixed, but Black simply based on what's seen with the naked eye. Forget the genetic make up, forget the historical accounts, forget everything. They say we are black because in their minds that's what we are. And since many of these NGO sucking/Skewed ideologically foreigners believe that THEY are always right, they will never at least give it a chance or some thought that maybe Dominicans already are celebrating what they are!
As a Dominican, I am sick and tired and disgusted with how foreigners (not those expats that live or truly love the DR for what it is) but those who come here to impose their belief! I am tired of my country being told what to do by foreigners. All that that has brought is misery, destruction, and backwardness. LEAVE US ALONE AND LET US LIVE OUR LIVES OUR WAY! FOR GOODNESS SAKE! NOT EVEN ISLANDS ARE LEFT TO LIVE THEIR LIVES IN PEACE, WE HAVE TO BE SUBJECTED TO FOREIGN IDEOLOGIES!
PIN POINT TO ME HOW PERFECT YOUR ADOPTED FOREIGN CULTRUE IS! ONCE YOU DO THAT, THEN COME AND TELL ME WHAT TO BELIEVE IN AND HOW TO LIVE. BUT UNTIL THEN, LEAVE US ALONE!
MOST DOMINICANS ARE NOT BLACK OR WHITE OR MIDDLE EASTERN. MOST DOMINICANS ARE MIXED. STOP DENIYING IT, ITS IN OUR BLOOD, ITS IN OUR GENES, ITS IN OUR DNA. YOU TAKE A SAMPLE AND RUN IT THROUGH SOME TEST AND IT WILL SHOW THE MIXTURE OF CULTURES THAT RUNS THROUGH THE VEINS OF ANY DOMINICAN. LEAVE US ALONE, ONLY THE REAL DOMINICAN KNOWS WHAT IT IS, HOW TO BE, AND HOW TO CELEBRATE WHAT WE ARE.
WE DON'T NEED FOREIGN INPUTS ON HOW TO LIVE OUR LIVES. THANK YOU.
Haiti (Black Caribbean Republic) flared up earlier this year and the US was reluctant to help out in that situation.
Kosovo (White European Country) tried to create another holocaust and within weeks, the international community "went to the rescue".
Like I said before, Dominicans already celebrate their MIXTURE by embracing their culture which is a mix of all the cultures that have influence the DR.
However, many still want Dominicans to be more like "other" people in celebrating their African heritage. I wonder, what are the positive things for the country that would come out of that? Please, pin point to economic and cultural progress of such thing?
Aside from satisfying the rest of the world's ideology of what the world should be, all I see is a downhill battle of ignoring all influences in the DR except that of Africa and ignoring the fact that the DR is a mixture!
This issue of Africa vs. Europe would not had come up if the DR would have been more "pure" like Haiti (ie. mostly Africans) or Chile (ie. mostly Europeans). The truth is that the DR is mixed and that can't be denied.
It will be a sad day when Dominicans focus on celebrating their African heritage according to the rest of the world's doctrine on how it should be celebrated. That will be the begining of the end of the DR in my opinion. The DR is much more developed than any black country on earth and the fact that we have European blood mixed in has a lot to do with it, aid flows easier to the DR than to most black countries. Look at our neighbor, Haiti. Also, it would be a shame that this melting pot of country, where people from all over the world have come and intermingled and intermarried and interbreed, would have to ignore its mixture and diversity and focus on Africa, simply because many foreigners don't recognize Dominican culture as a mix of things, despite the evidence such as in Merengue.
This reminds me of the new wig crisis in Israel. Apparently, many Israelis who were having Hairloss problems were buying wigs made from Hair of Indians (from India). Recently, some religious person said that Indian hair is not "kosher" enough because they are infidels in the eyes of Jews, instead they should buy from Westerners who have more "Kosher" hair. Now in Isreal, everybody is dumping their Indian hair and instead buying wigs made in Europe because European hair is much more "Kosher".
That is exactly what many of you uncomformists are trying to do. Now that Dominicans are fully embracing their culture, which is a mixture of things and in fact, if they embrace their culture they are embracing their mixed heritage. Now that Dominicans are embracing and celebrating who they are, now come these uncomformists and tell us that we have it all wrong. They tell us that we are not mixed, but Black simply based on what's seen with the naked eye. Forget the genetic make up, forget the historical accounts, forget everything. They say we are black because in their minds that's what we are. And since many of these NGO sucking/Skewed ideologically foreigners believe that THEY are always right, they will never at least give it a chance or some thought that maybe Dominicans already are celebrating what they are!
As a Dominican, I am sick and tired and disgusted with how foreigners (not those expats that live or truly love the DR for what it is) but those who come here to impose their belief! I am tired of my country being told what to do by foreigners. All that that has brought is misery, destruction, and backwardness. LEAVE US ALONE AND LET US LIVE OUR LIVES OUR WAY! FOR GOODNESS SAKE! NOT EVEN ISLANDS ARE LEFT TO LIVE THEIR LIVES IN PEACE, WE HAVE TO BE SUBJECTED TO FOREIGN IDEOLOGIES!
PIN POINT TO ME HOW PERFECT YOUR ADOPTED FOREIGN CULTRUE IS! ONCE YOU DO THAT, THEN COME AND TELL ME WHAT TO BELIEVE IN AND HOW TO LIVE. BUT UNTIL THEN, LEAVE US ALONE!
MOST DOMINICANS ARE NOT BLACK OR WHITE OR MIDDLE EASTERN. MOST DOMINICANS ARE MIXED. STOP DENIYING IT, ITS IN OUR BLOOD, ITS IN OUR GENES, ITS IN OUR DNA. YOU TAKE A SAMPLE AND RUN IT THROUGH SOME TEST AND IT WILL SHOW THE MIXTURE OF CULTURES THAT RUNS THROUGH THE VEINS OF ANY DOMINICAN. LEAVE US ALONE, ONLY THE REAL DOMINICAN KNOWS WHAT IT IS, HOW TO BE, AND HOW TO CELEBRATE WHAT WE ARE.
WE DON'T NEED FOREIGN INPUTS ON HOW TO LIVE OUR LIVES. THANK YOU.
Quit the world play, idea manipulation, drama
Oh please...some of this is not even worthy of a response. Stop twisting words around Nals. You are the ultimate expert on misinterpretation and anti-black insinuation. I know it hurts your 99.99% whiteness to be identified as black. :cheeky:
No one is saying that Dominicans are just Black. But to deny that the vast majority are at least in part black or to surpress that part of their DNA that is their blackness is the true injustice. How many stories can I tell you of Dominicans who marry African-Americans to have their families ex-communicate them for marrying "un negro" when they themselves could be darker or have darker children (yes, because they married a black dominican). It's a riot. Or how about growing up hearing the "hay que mejorar la raza" crap. Or your people (even family) saying bs like "ahi esta la moca en la leche".
While everyone recognizes their blackness "a lo escondido" no one is willing to say so publicly. What is accepted is to put your blackness down and call it ugly...think of the social conditioning this creates over time. You ask what is to come of it if we turn this negative dialogue around? Well how about self-respect, good self-esteem, and even higher self-pride in being
Dominican? Is that too hard of a task to ask? When I was in DR I heard a Dominican woman, living in the island, trying to say these very things. She was never taken seriously. So to tell me that in DR Dominicans don't feel as I do is a load of crap.
What happens when you have a country of people who respect themselves? Lower rates of teen pregnancy, higher educational achievement, higher respect for your neighbor, respect for the political process, etc. Imagine that. If we look at the generation of African-Americans from the south that where in fact engaged in civil rights movements you'll find doctors, lawyers, teachers, truly working professionals--the Vernon Jordans, the Gaites, Wests, etc and a ton of unsung heroes no one ever hears about. The mess you see on the 6 o'clock news is a small percentage when compared to the great strides the African-American community has been able to achieve. However, due to inner city urban dynamics and the increasing gap between the X/Y generations with those from the '60s, this group pride has been lost.
No one is tryng to make Dominicans be like other people. What is being said is that Dominicans that come to the states need to recognize that their self-perception is not necessarily valid in another country, so they need to check it at the door of the JFK or Miami airport. When they return to DR they can be as white as they want to be. The latter, contrary to your statement, which is the doctrine that the world currently celebrates. It is a sad enough tale that Dominicans have to leave DR, "creando patria en otro pais," to be able to dream.
I'll take being a nonconformist as a compliment. THANK YOU. As for the other insults you know where you can place that, as gently or as rough as you like.
If Dominicans really what to stop taking aid from foreigners then ya'll need to stop begging for someone else's hard earned tax dollars and take care of your own business, eliminate corruption, improve the quality of life for all Dominicans not only the "fine ones," and stop selling out your key industries out in free trade agreements with the same foreign nationals you want to keep out. The hypocrisy has to stop some where. Stop trying to bite the hand that feeds you.
D
Oh please...some of this is not even worthy of a response. Stop twisting words around Nals. You are the ultimate expert on misinterpretation and anti-black insinuation. I know it hurts your 99.99% whiteness to be identified as black. :cheeky:
No one is saying that Dominicans are just Black. But to deny that the vast majority are at least in part black or to surpress that part of their DNA that is their blackness is the true injustice. How many stories can I tell you of Dominicans who marry African-Americans to have their families ex-communicate them for marrying "un negro" when they themselves could be darker or have darker children (yes, because they married a black dominican). It's a riot. Or how about growing up hearing the "hay que mejorar la raza" crap. Or your people (even family) saying bs like "ahi esta la moca en la leche".
While everyone recognizes their blackness "a lo escondido" no one is willing to say so publicly. What is accepted is to put your blackness down and call it ugly...think of the social conditioning this creates over time. You ask what is to come of it if we turn this negative dialogue around? Well how about self-respect, good self-esteem, and even higher self-pride in being
Dominican? Is that too hard of a task to ask? When I was in DR I heard a Dominican woman, living in the island, trying to say these very things. She was never taken seriously. So to tell me that in DR Dominicans don't feel as I do is a load of crap.
What happens when you have a country of people who respect themselves? Lower rates of teen pregnancy, higher educational achievement, higher respect for your neighbor, respect for the political process, etc. Imagine that. If we look at the generation of African-Americans from the south that where in fact engaged in civil rights movements you'll find doctors, lawyers, teachers, truly working professionals--the Vernon Jordans, the Gaites, Wests, etc and a ton of unsung heroes no one ever hears about. The mess you see on the 6 o'clock news is a small percentage when compared to the great strides the African-American community has been able to achieve. However, due to inner city urban dynamics and the increasing gap between the X/Y generations with those from the '60s, this group pride has been lost.
No one is tryng to make Dominicans be like other people. What is being said is that Dominicans that come to the states need to recognize that their self-perception is not necessarily valid in another country, so they need to check it at the door of the JFK or Miami airport. When they return to DR they can be as white as they want to be. The latter, contrary to your statement, which is the doctrine that the world currently celebrates. It is a sad enough tale that Dominicans have to leave DR, "creando patria en otro pais," to be able to dream.
I'll take being a nonconformist as a compliment. THANK YOU. As for the other insults you know where you can place that, as gently or as rough as you like.
If Dominicans really what to stop taking aid from foreigners then ya'll need to stop begging for someone else's hard earned tax dollars and take care of your own business, eliminate corruption, improve the quality of life for all Dominicans not only the "fine ones," and stop selling out your key industries out in free trade agreements with the same foreign nationals you want to keep out. The hypocrisy has to stop some where. Stop trying to bite the hand that feeds you.
D
Nal0whs said:
what is this ?
**** that **** . we are most a mix , i dont want to hear opinion about someone saying that we dont recognize our african roots .we do recognize it good. the end is that we are a mix and if any body dont think so come to dominican republic and live here , i think
this is a world problem not a dominican. ok.if anything DR is the least racist country in the world .i live there and i know it .so stop been a dick head the perso that want to put our pride down.
im mulato and thats whats up ,if they call that black in the united state i dont care.
i would not be me if a mix of two or more different races would not taken place together.
peace out and please i dont want to see this type of dick posting stupidity
**** that **** . we are most a mix , i dont want to hear opinion about someone saying that we dont recognize our african roots .we do recognize it good. the end is that we are a mix and if any body dont think so come to dominican republic and live here , i think
this is a world problem not a dominican. ok.if anything DR is the least racist country in the world .i live there and i know it .so stop been a dick head the perso that want to put our pride down.
im mulato and thats whats up ,if they call that black in the united state i dont care.
i would not be me if a mix of two or more different races would not taken place together.
peace out and please i dont want to see this type of dick posting stupidity
Tell that to the guy Balaguer shot and killed when he tried to publicly celebrate the African ancestry of Dominicans. This maybe occured within both or our lifetimes...well, definitely mine and I still concider myself a young adult. Hon, I don't think anyone wants "to put our pride down" as Dominicans, but to acknowledge that we are all beautiful not just the lighter ones. 
Take time to read the posts and think through some of the points a bit more about the implications speaking positively about our negritude can have on a country like DR. Else, just stay in DR making DR pesos and don't ever come to the states for dollars. Show me you can be all you wannabe being mulatto-esque. Become richer than all these DR1ers here living in and benefitting from DR. Oh and with the caveat that you don't hurt Dominicans in the process by accomplishing your goals legally and respectfully.
D
Take time to read the posts and think through some of the points a bit more about the implications speaking positively about our negritude can have on a country like DR. Else, just stay in DR making DR pesos and don't ever come to the states for dollars. Show me you can be all you wannabe being mulatto-esque. Become richer than all these DR1ers here living in and benefitting from DR. Oh and with the caveat that you don't hurt Dominicans in the process by accomplishing your goals legally and respectfully.D
eudi said:
Please Help Me "CELEBRATE" my Dutch "Roots"!
I know about "wooden shoes",and "Hans Brinker & The Golden Skates",and I have stuck my finger in a "Dike" on more than one occasion,but am I missing anything???
I have blue eyes,blond hair,and I would like to give everyone a "Dutch Treat"(Is that a racial slur??) but am I "DUTCH" enough???Am I "Pure",since I am the product of a "Mixed" family heritage? I also have "Welsh Blood" in my gene pool!
What To Do,What To Do???????
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
I know about "wooden shoes",and "Hans Brinker & The Golden Skates",and I have stuck my finger in a "Dike" on more than one occasion,but am I missing anything???
I have blue eyes,blond hair,and I would like to give everyone a "Dutch Treat"(Is that a racial slur??) but am I "DUTCH" enough???Am I "Pure",since I am the product of a "Mixed" family heritage? I also have "Welsh Blood" in my gene pool!
What To Do,What To Do???????
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
First and only warning. No insults here.eudi said:
Never heard of that. Please post names, dates and verifiable details.eudi said:
Criss... Welsh and Dutch... a stuborn dopehead? :devious:
You Said It "PIB"!
I used to smoke my "Weed",eat a pound of "Dutch Chocolate",and then still have to get drunk and start a fight with "Anyone"!
"President con Clamato" has been my "Salvation"...............that and 20 mg.of "Prozac" for breakfast!!!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
I still suffer from "Break Through" insanity from time to time! gre: :bored:
I used to smoke my "Weed",eat a pound of "Dutch Chocolate",and then still have to get drunk and start a fight with "Anyone"!
"President con Clamato" has been my "Salvation"...............that and 20 mg.of "Prozac" for breakfast!!!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
I still suffer from "Break Through" insanity from time to time!
gre: :bored: PIB-
I believe it's cited in "Why the Cocks Fight?" by Michele Wucker. I lent my copy out so I can't cite the pages with the details. I know Forbeca has a copy. Maybe she can share? I can get my copy back mid week since the person is currently out of town.
Shoot... sorry, I hit the wrong button. My apologies. :disappoin
Pib
I believe it's cited in "Why the Cocks Fight?" by Michele Wucker. I lent my copy out so I can't cite the pages with the details. I know Forbeca has a copy. Maybe she can share? I can get my copy back mid week since the person is currently out of town.
Shoot... sorry, I hit the wrong button. My apologies. :disappoin
Pib
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Nal0whs said:
No. Everything european, and Taino, is celebrated; Theres a monument to Christopher columbus, and Taino Museums, just to name a few things. But NOTHING african is nationally recognized.
How do Domincans "embrace the mixture" , by leaving out everything African.
What positive things??? Pride for all their ancestors that died for them.
WHat are you talking about. Where are you getting this from?? Nobody said that dominicans should ignore everything else.
What i did say was that African influences, and ancestry should be recognized as well.
Why?? You have no problem with the national recognition of Spain, and the Taino indians, but you think if dominicans start to celebrate anything african it will be the "downfall of the country".
THis is rediculous.
Ohh my god!! You could at least try not to sound so racist.
And your wrong by the way, because the Dominican Republic is poorer than MOST AFRICAN COUNTRIES.
NO they dont. As i stated before. Nothing african is recognized on a national level. Everything else is though.
deelt said:
Thank You for making my point. You guys are nonconformist. If it wasn't the race issue, it would have been something else you guys would want to change of the DR. You guys will never accept the DR how it is, its a shame because from what I am seeing, you guys are wasting alot of energy and time in something nobody really cares. Bye bye
So what African person should be recongized in the DR? Really, tell me.
The mixture is celebrated in our culture, not on a "per race" per se. Listen to Merengue, you hear AFRICAN DRUMS, you hear TAINO GUIRA, you hear EUROPEAN ACCORDION.
In a Pica Pollo Dominicans ask for CHICHARRONES WHICH ARE AFRICAN, and CASAVE which are Taino, and sometimes they ask for some ARROZ on the side which is part of Spanish dishes.
When Dominicans talk they use all sorts of slang words comming from Africa, Taino, and Europe!
It's like I said, Dominicans celebrate their mixture by the way they live. Whether they make a quicker note of their European influence over their African is a different story, We DO celebrate our mixture by celebrating and embracing Dominican culture. A biproduct of all the cultures that have converged here.
I don't have a problem with Dominicans recognizing their MIXTURE, because we already are via our Dominicanidad - which is a byproduct of the congregation of cultures that have influenced this country. What I do have a problem is with this pro-Africa deal. Sure, I don't like it when Dominicans claim their pure European or pure Taino, because most are not pure European or pure Taino, just how most are not pure African. That's why I say that we already celebrate what we are by living our Dominicanidad!
It's not that I am racist, its just that you are not trying to understand what I am saying! Please, take a moment to understand what I am saying which is this: DOMINICANS ARE A MIXTURE, A MIXTURE, NOT BLACK, NOT WHITE, NOT TAINO, A MIXTURE. NOTICE HOW MIXTURE IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT WORD AND HAVE A TOTALLY DIFFERENT MEANING THAN BEING PURE BLACK, OR WHITE, OR TAINO. WE ARE A MIXTURE! THERE ARE A FEW THAT ARE PURE WHITES AND PURE BLACKS AND MAYBE ONE OR TWO PURE TAINOS HERE AND THERE, BUT THE REALITY IS THAT MOST ARE A MIXTURE! DOMINICANIDAD IS THE PRODUCT OF A MIXTURE. MIXTURE, MIXTURE, MIXTURE = DOMINICANS. GET WHAT I AM SAYING.
Really? Prove it. If you decide to ignore all my other request, at least answer this one. Prove it that most African countries are much more developed than the DR, considering that Haiti is the least developed country outside of Africa and the DR is much more developed than Haiti. I really need to see these facts to believe it.
Also, don't include the Arab African countries, because from my understanding of your understanding of Africa, Africa only consist of the black countries in the Sub-Saharan part of the continent.
Nal0whs said:
NO NO. This is what you said
YOu attribute D.R's development to the fact that it has more "european blood" , than black countries. Your implication was that the D.R is superior, and more devoloped than any black country, because it is whiter.
THAT is a racist comment.
........I will adress the rest of your post later, but right now I really have to go
Did you missed the part that I wrot saying AID FLOWS EASIER TO THE DR THAN TO MOST BLACK COUNTRIES.?
That is just the truth, not a racist remark. Most of the global wealth is in white countries and white countries are much more generous at giving aid to other white countries. Then it goes downhill from that accordingly, thus my comment.
Please, take your concept of me being racist out of your head. It is really starting to mess with the way you see my responses. And please, don't forget to address the other stuff.
That is just the truth, not a racist remark. Most of the global wealth is in white countries and white countries are much more generous at giving aid to other white countries. Then it goes downhill from that accordingly, thus my comment.
Please, take your concept of me being racist out of your head. It is really starting to mess with the way you see my responses. And please, don't forget to address the other stuff.
- Status