Baby shot in Sosua in drug gangs shoot out.

[Jane J.]

I really resent some people's tendency to so distinctly separate gringo from non-gringo. I, gringa as I may be, have friends and family in Sosua, as does Trina, as do other people who consult these boards. And YES, we want to know who it happened to, it could be someone we know, and perhaps we might HAVE to make a condolence call, KEN.

I have found out that the boy who was killed is the grandson of the owner of the pizzeria in Charamicos. Granted, that doesn't mean a lot to many people who read these boards, and may seem like idle gossip-mongering, but no - that is called information.

I am also chagrined that someone could post here that this changes "nada" in Sosua... except certain people's LIVES and loss of. You have no way of knowing who might be affected in an incident such as this and I really don't understand the insensitivity expressed.... ??

 

[Lambada]

Hear, hear, Jane J.
It has been an eye opener to me. I knew there were levels of insensitivity around.........I never thought that people would almost boast about it.
Thank you, for keeping us informed.

 

[trina]

I really resent some people's tendency to so distinctly separate gringo from non-gringo. I, gringa as I may be, have friends and family in Sosua, as does Trina, as do other people who consult these boards. And YES, we want to know who it happened to, it could be someone we know, and perhaps we might HAVE to make a condolence call, KEN.

I have found out that the boy who was killed is the grandson of the owner of the pizzeria in Charamicos. Granted, that doesn't mean a lot to many people who read these boards, and may seem like idle gossip-mongering, but no - that is called information.

I am also chagrined that someone could post here that this changes "nada" in Sosua... except certain people's LIVES and loss of. You have no way of knowing who might be affected in an incident such as this and I really don't understand the insensitivity expressed.... ??

Jane, tu sabes que tu eres mas Dominicana que una persona quien nacio en la RD! What's better than that, is that you KNOW that's a compliment. If more "gringas" and ex-pats were like you, there wouldn't be so much blatant insensitivity for crimes committed against locals. Too many people have the attitude of "well, that's what happens when you live in an area so infested by drugs". I don't know of a child or innocent bystander that deserves to be the victim of any crime. La Piedra (ni Maranetta -sp?-, ni Los Castillos, etc etc etc) is not just a bunch of druglords and criminals, as we both know. There are many very good, hard-working, decent people living there, and it pains me to think these tragedies will occur and continue to occur to people who don't need or deserve to have their lives further devastated by crime. Upon stating that, I can imagine the ignorant saying "well, they should move to a safer area then"... :ermm: like poor people have the resources to just pick up and leave - they have enough trouble putting food on the table. If more ex-pats started getting involved in positive ways, what a better town this place we love could become. I wish more would be like Lambada and enrich their lives by getting to know the common folk...maybe then, a better light would be cast on the ex-pat community and they wouldn't have so many problems to deal with. NOTE: this is not meant to reflect on any ex-pats who think of the DR as their home, and treat it as such. There are many ex-pats who live amongst locals, and are richer for it.

 

[Chris]

I really resent some people's tendency to so distinctly separate gringo from non-gringo. I, gringa as I may be, have friends and family in Sosua, as does Trina, as do other people who consult these boards. And YES, we want to know who it happened to, it could be someone we know, and perhaps we might HAVE to make a condolence call, KEN.

I have found out that the boy who was killed is the grandson of the owner of the pizzeria in Charamicos. Granted, that doesn't mean a lot to many people who read these boards, and may seem like idle gossip-mongering, but no - that is called information.

I am also chagrined that someone could post here that this changes "nada" in Sosua... except certain people's LIVES and loss of. You have no way of knowing who might be affected in an incident such as this and I really don't understand the insensitivity expressed.... ??

Jane, and other posters - with respect -- None of the posters on this thread asked any of the Sosua residents to find out specific details in order to make a condolence call. If anyone asked, I am sure that the Sosua residents would have gone out of their way to help find the information. We've seen this level of support happen before on this board. No-one asked, besides Trina who did not say why she asked. quote: "In both articles, it mentions the name of the father, but not the mother. Does anyone know the mother's name?" Trina, I did not know that there was a good reason behind your question. It seemed to me just a casual question. If I knew, I would have attempted to find out for you.

Some people on this thread asked for sensitivity of another kind. The sensitivity to 'live and let live'. The sensitivity to allow others to continue with their mourning process with out being overwhelmed by the curious and the sensation seekers (and with this comment, I am not making any allegations to anyone... these are the only words that I have to express what I'd like to say). The quiet voices asking for quiet sensitivity was not given much space here - check out the thread, there were many posts asking for 'quiet sensitivity'. Personally, if I was discussing this incident with anyone whilst seeking information for information's sake, it would feel totally inappropriate and disrespectful and shameful. This family does not need another person trying to get the story behind the story, especially from those who do not live in the community.

Also, this incident was discussed on the radio just about the whole of last Friday. There was a lot of information given but I personally am not sure enough of my translations to give anyone information based on what I heard on the radio. I would expect those people with ties to the community to get their information through the circles of family and friends.

I found Ken's comment about making a condolence call simply realistic. If you know Ken, he was simply expressing astonishment that all with deep ties to this community were not been able to find more information, and wanting to know why. Also if you know Ken, if anyone gave him reason, or asked him, to find out information for them, he would get on his horse and go and find out.

The comment that this news changes 'nada' in Sosua, I found not insensitive, but feet on the ground realistic -- and shockingly sad.. This news should change things. This news should have the people who live in the affected area up in arms and doing something locally to make their lives safer. I find the fact that they dismantled the house and threw the possessions in the sea, heartwarming... this is real local action and one can carry out this action whether you are poor or not, Dominicano/a or not, gringo/a or not.

I am a mother and a grandmother. Any news of any little 2-year old dying in any circumstances makes me feel to say the least, quite ill, irrational with inability to right the wrongs of the world, and attempting in my way, to simply send thoughts of strength and support to those affected. I don't necessarily cry all over my keyboard.

Some of us cry publically, some of us cry privately - the one thing that I'm sure of, is that all of us cry!

 

[trina]

I found Ken's comment about making a condolence call simply realistic. If you know Ken, he was simply expressing astonishment that all with deep ties to this community were not been able to find more information, and wanting to know why. Also if you know Ken, if anyone gave him reason, or asked him, to find out information for them, he would get on his horse and go and find out.

With all due respect, Chris, Ken does know that my family is in Sosua. For what other reason, after showing my respect and sympathy, could I possibly have for wanting to know the mother's name? After being on this board for the last five years, I would think most (newbies and those that don't know me well excluded) would know that I had no "ulterior" motive for wanting to know the name of the mother. A condolence call is not something we would want to make, as expressed by JaneJ, but something that would pain us deeply to make, if we had to. I would like to know that if we could do nothing else from afar but to help the family financially if they were someone we were close to, this knowledge would give us the tool to do so. I found Ken's reply an ill-placed attempt at sarcasm...please enlighten me if I'm wrong, Ken.

 

[Rocky]

Sosua Drugs

The real bottom line is how do we prevent it happening in the future.
How do we stop those controlling the drug trade?
It's a small town. Everybody knows who they are.
The Dominicans need to organize themselves and kick these people out of town.
We don't want any crack heads or any more murdered babies.

 

[Lambada]

Alleged perpetrator arrested & according to police has confessed.
http://elnacional.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=22829

This report says alleged perpetrator lives in Santiago. If that is so, the 'local justice' must have been carried out on someone else's home.

 

[trina]

Alleged perpetrator arrested & according to police has confessed.
http://elnacional.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=22829

This report says alleged perpetrator lives in Santiago. If that is so, the 'local justice' must have been carried out on someone else's home.

Perhaps he's from Santiago, and was hiding out in Santiago, but he probably also has a place in La Piedra, which he uses for his drug trade? Like I've said many times before, "los malos de Sosua" are not originally from Sosua, they come to Sosua to take advantage of the tourist trade.

 

[Lambada]

Now that the '9 days' has passed, footage of the funeral was shown on CDN last night. It really was a huge funeral. I know newspaper reports said as much, but when you see the footage it brings it home. Many of the mourners carried anti-drug placards. The group was addressed over a p.a. system by the Mayor & a very tearful Ileana Newman, the diputada.
The mother was interviewed. All names are now out in the public domain, but I will not put them here in case I offend sensitivities. I will PM the 2 posters whom I know have a family interest in the area, Trina & Jane J. If there is anyone I do not know about, they can PM me.

No one could have watched this footage & not been moved.

 

[Escott]

Perhaps he's from Santiago, and was hiding out in Santiago, but he probably also has a place in La Piedra, which he uses for his drug trade? Like I've said many times before, "los malos de Sosua" are not originally from Sosua, they come to Sosua to take advantage of the tourist trade.

What tourist trade is there in La Piedra? Perhaps I missed something.

 

[Escott]

I really resent some people's tendency to so distinctly separate gringo from non-gringo. I, gringa as I may be, have friends and family in Sosua, as does Trina, as do other people who consult these boards. And YES, we want to know who it happened to, it could be someone we know, and perhaps we might HAVE to make a condolence call, KEN.

I have found out that the boy who was killed is the grandson of the owner of the pizzeria in Charamicos. Granted, that doesn't mean a lot to many people who read these boards, and may seem like idle gossip-mongering, but no - that is called information.

I am also chagrined that someone could post here that this changes "nada" in Sosua... except certain people's LIVES and loss of. You have no way of knowing who might be affected in an incident such as this and I really don't understand the insensitivity expressed.... ??

Well Jane I can't understand the reason for your rightous indignation. If I were you and wanted info I would have spent a quarter or less and make a quick call to one of my relatives. On a message board you get some good info and some bad info as you have seen in this thread. I think this thread was just intended to stir the pot. You never would see her post this about Puerto Plata. She is just trying to fire up some people who she thinks are easy bait in my opinion.

The OP didn't say that this happened in one of the very worst parts of Sosua and certainly NOT in El Batey. If there is someone killed in Puerto Plata do you think it affects anyone in Confressi? Not hardly! Sorry you were "chagrined" at my comments.

I took someone who has a house in Cabrera and a apartment in Sosua for years to lunch at Restaurant Central last week. The guy is about 6'5" and said he had been scared to go to Charimicos before to my amazement. Most gringos do NOT go to Charimicos for anything. A lot of us do. I feel very safe there also. An unfortunate incident like this changes NADA for me also in terms of returning there for any reason.

Scott

 

[trina]

What tourist trade is there in La Piedra? Perhaps I missed something.

Perhaps you did miss something, Scott, or perhaps you were adding something that wasn't there?

Like I've said many times before, "los malos de Sosua" are not originally from Sosua, they come to Sosua to take advantage of the tourist trade.

I said nothing about a tourist trade in La Piedra.

Besides, La Piedra is part of Sosua, unless things have changed in recent years. Now who's stirring the pot?

 

[Chris]

Scott and I must have missed the same thing. But I'm also quite sure we noticed the same thing about this post.... and I assure you, it is *not* that great minds think alike --- I could never equate my mind with Scott's. It is simply that some things appear just too good to be true!

 

[trina]

Scott, I've never had a problem with you and don't wish to start :classic: . This post has been blown out of proportion by all parties involved, ourselves included. If you think that there was an ulterior motive for the OP posting this, that is your opinion. I don't share that opinion, and have an interest in this news due to family in the area. I'm glad it was posted, because due to rainfall in the area, we're having a lot of problems getting through to cellulars and landlines in Sosua from Canada. Besides, this post was what notified us that something bad had happened in the area - how would Jane or I have known to make a call to Sosua if it weren't for the post?
No matter if this happened in Sosua, Costumbar, Santo Domingo, Boca Chica, Punta Cana, or Timbuktu; anytime that a baby is shot dead, you can guarantee it will affect me and many others. And if someone was shot in Cofresi, of course it would affect those in POP, just like this incident affected many lives in Sosua. Matter of opinion, I guess, or matter of the interpretation of the word "affect". It's a shame that it did happen in Sosua because we both love this town and don't wish to have the reputation damaged by infrequent crimes. To me, it's not likely, due to crime being much more rampant in US cities (where many DR and DR1 visitors are from) than it is in the DR...I think we can give most people the benefit of the doubt when making these decisions to know that crime happens everywhere. No stats to back it up, just my opinion.

 

[Berzin]

The same thing could very well happen here, The Capital in the DR. could become like Kingston Jamaca..........

I think before this happends however Uncle Sam will get involved as they have far to much at stake to see this Country fall to the Drug Loards and let Tourism go down the crapper......

Jamaica went downhill because of the draconian measures instituted by the IMF which forcibly opened jamaican ports to cheaper goods from the US and basically ruined any efforts of the jamaican people for self-sufficiency. And then in stepped the drugs.

As far as the drug lords are concerned, it can stop if their was the will, which there is not. This money is made by traffickers who send their cash to banks in the DR. Why is there no oversight to see who is sending this money over and to what accounts? The dominicans are famous the world over for thier involvement in the drug trade, and this has been going on for years. From the streets of Washington Heights to San Fransisco De Macoris.

 

[Jane J.]

I think this thread was just intended to stir the pot.

The provision of this sort of information is what I value about these boards. When I see news about Sosua, I automatically take interest as I have many ties to that community, as you well know. If your intention was to allay tourists' fears about safety, I would back that up: of course it has no bearing on how vacationers will spend their 7-day stays at an AI. But I don't support the "us" and "them" sort of message that I read into the sentiments expressed here and that was what I reacted to.

An unfortunate incident like this changes NADA for me also in terms of returning there for any reason.

OK, if that's what you meant by changing NADA, then I misinterpreted BUT you know that encouraging tourism to the DR is only one of these boards' purposes and a little human sympathy from a long-time poster who obviously has a lot to offer to his surroundings is not too much to ask for.

This was a crime that caused a HUGE amount of pain to the town of Sosua and an outpouring of sympathy that was reported on a national level. Perhaps I came across as "righteously indignant" but I'll let you call it a knee-jerk reaction to something that pained me very much. I know you don't understand my point of view, Escott, but this news was like a knife through my heart and I still take offense at the attempts to downplay it, especially given that you live right there, and not in COFRESI.

 

[Jane J.]

****************

 

[Escott]

Perhaps you did miss something, Scott, or perhaps you were adding something that wasn't there?



I said nothing about a tourist trade in La Piedra.

Besides, La Piedra is part of Sosua, unless things have changed in recent years. Now who's stirring the pot?

"ike I've said many times before, "los malos de Sosua" are not originally from Sosua, they come to Sosua to take advantage of the tourist trade."

This is your quote relating to the shooting in La Piedra.

Again, there are NO tourists there that I know of.

Confresi is part of Puerto Plata and as much a part as La Piedra is a part of Sosua. You will NOT be affected in Confresi by a shooting in Puerto Plata.

Is this so hard to understand?

 

[trina]

"ike I've said many times before, "los malos de Sosua" are not originally from Sosua, they come to Sosua to take advantage of the tourist trade."

This is your quote relating to the shooting in La Piedra.

Again, there are NO tourists there that I know of.

Confresi is part of Puerto Plata and as much a part as La Piedra is a part of Sosua. You will NOT be affected in Confresi by a shooting in Puerto Plata.

Is this so hard to understand?

It is quite hard for me to understand that anyone is NOT affected by the cold-blooded killing of a baby, Scott. I am in Canada and it affects me. Like I said, depending on your interpretation of the word "affect". Effectively, are you saying that the killer cannot and will not step out of the boundaries of La Piedra, and into the other parts of Sosua, such as El Batey, if he was so inclined? From Puerto Plata, into Cofresi??? Nonsense. I'd say that affects people close to the areas mentioned. If you're saying that it doesn't affect your travel to the area, good for you! Doesn't affect me in that way, either. What I really don't understand is why you continue this diatribe, in the same breath accusing someone else of trying to stir the pot...I see that as your only motive to continue. What exactly offends you about the quote that you just won't give up on? The killer is from Santiago (not from Sosua), commiting crimes in Sosua, like many (I'm venturing to say most, as an educated guess) of the people who commit crimes in Sosua. That's about as far as I can, or care to, break it down for you.

Bad mood today, perhaps? You're picking fights all over the board lately...go have a drink and relax a bit...

 

[GirlieGirl]

....

it was not crossfire...

it was not drugs...