Banco Central Certificates

mondongo

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Jan 1, 2002
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Don't want to get in the middle of the Lurch/iluvdr wrestling contest, but let me at least clear up one point:

The Central Bank sells more certificates than it is supposed to sell at every single auction. The amount in DR$ of certificates outstanding has been growing EVERY WEEK. There is nothing "left over". What is happening is that the CB turns away, as is the case in all auctions, the lowest bidders (or those offering to buy at the highest interset rates).

Lurch said:
I do pose a question if these bonds are such a great investment why cannot the CB sell out of them? Usually 40%+ are left over at each auction, would not have the large worldwide investment houses pounced on this cant lose proposition? Or perhaps you are just too smart for all of us :tired: .
 

iluvdr

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Aug 24, 2004
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Lurch as finally learned to shut up!

One down on this forum !
There out to be some sort of an ethics committee on this forum... The nerve of some people calling others ignorant or uneducated!!! Who?s the donkey now?
Seems like there is no stopping the pesos ... to all of you interested in investing in CB CD's ...Just a small hint, it want get any better then this! Fasten your seat belt, the currency should rise very strongly in the coming months, unfortunately the interest rates will start to decline as well! No one could predict for how long this window of opportunity will stay open?
Unlike some people, if I am wrong on this, I will gladly apologize to the whole forum and kiss a donkey on it?s rear end ;) (and you could take that promise to the bank!)
 

jerryme

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Feb 1, 2004
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Who knows if the Peso will get stronger in the future? No one. When the Dollar hit 52 Pesos people on this board said wait its gonna go to 75-90. No one knows for sure.
 

mondongo

Bronze
Jan 1, 2002
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iluvr is a genius!

iluvdr, congratulations in picking the bottom of the DR$ last summer. If you can consistently pick the tops/bottoms of markets, you would be an Einstein level genius. Doing it once or twice does not count. We have all done that. You cannot name a single economist or analyst that claims to be able to pick market tops/bottoms.

If you think you can time markets consistently, call me. We'll both retire wealthy within the year. Count your blessings, iluvdr.
 

Lurch

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Aug 8, 2003
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At least be a challenge

iluvdr said:
I have to make you one compliment Lurch, you do know your politics and even to a certain extend your economics as well. You always comme up with some solid statements to back up your BS. Kinds of reminds me of Bush when he had to convince the world that Irak had Weapons of mass destruction, he build a pretty solid case... That's why they call it BS, you see, BS is hard on top but soft at the bottom. It's got no consistence! All your political criticizim still does not change the fact that the pesos has hardly moved since Christmas... I am yet to hear from you a " I was wrong..." this must be the american way!

Of course there are solid statements to back up my position, it is impossible to alter basic reality. You can jump up and down until your pseudo french hearts content, however it will not change the fundamentals of the RD, simply put its economic model is non viable.

In very simple terms for you, it spends more than it generates and borrows more than it can repay considering its possible present and future GDP (barring of course an oil pool the size Kuwait being discovered under Santo Domingo)

A government can declare its currency value at just about anything it truly desires especially in a remittance based economy such as the RD. However there are consequences and the government cannot maintain this peg indefinitely as it will severely impact its economy. If you look about, you are already starting to see the impact (example massive job losses in the FZ?s),. How long will the PLD continue? How long can they continue?

This brings us to the major point anyone who invests in pesos does so without any market fundamentals supporting its value. Any foreign bond investor is completely banking on the assumption the government will maintain the artificial exchange rate and market value is irrelevant. Now this is not terribly different than the internet bubble a couple of years ago where companies traded at unheard of PE ratios. What was the conclusion of that bubble? Reality set in as it always will in a market based environment, reality will set in here too. Unless one believes the RD is the lone exception on this planet.

As for the American way, well Americans do not bury their heads in the sand and wish for a positive outcome. We are people of decisive actions be they well founded or not.


iluvdr said:
Lets be real Lurch, you know you don't want any one to do that exercise...It would make you look even more like a fool.

I shall be the motley fool and stand by my position as it is well defined and supported.

iluvdr said:
I may not use big words in my post or try to act educated. The truth is, I am not. I berely have a college degree... But I have got something you don't. It's called street smart, this is the kind of degree that you don't earn, you deserve it! And for your information, I actually have a lot of very educated people working for me!
If ever you need a job feel free to apply (you can PM me).

I would actually been surprised if you said otherwise regarding your background, which explains your inability to logically argue and support your position. Some say luck is better than talent, they never last and I am quite patient by nature.

iluvdr said:
Now, I can't even began to answer your post since it makes no kind of sense...
You have only made 86 post and they where not all targeted at critisizing my opinions.Now, how would your earnings be in triple digits? Even an uneducated, street usler as myself can do the math...

Sigh, it was figurative speech just as I assume you are aware not all my posts have centered on the CB bonds. However I do recall in every posting directed toward you correcting a multiple deceptions, incorrect assessments, fraud, ignorance of history, law, business and economics.

iluvdr said:
Finally, some light at the end of the tunnel! Smart question, deserves a smart answer.
There is an old saying in Real Estate: "Buy when everyone is selling, sell when every one is buying..."


I guess this would also apply to the Argentina bonds, Enron, Global Crossing should I continue or has the point been made?

iluvdr said:
Don't you get it Lurch, if all the investment houses where jumping in on this deal then it would not be at 26%. The potential risk does not permit institutionalize investors to come in at this time.

Touchdown! Now you have just completely flipped positions in one paragraph. The risk of the CB bonds is unwarranted considering its only paying 26% in a manipulated overvalued currency. Congratulations you have learned something.

iluvdr said:
What the CB is doing by giving CD's at High yield is bringing money into the country, therefore stabilizing the pesos and creating confidence, as that level of confidence rises, they will lower the interest rates and pay back the high yield loans with the new lower interest rates CD's until they reach a standard rate. This strategy seems to be working. The real winners will obviously be those who got in early on. There is no conspiracy or pyramid scheme here. I tip my hat to the genius at CB that put this all together! (Not bad for a stock pimp!)

Of course it?s a pyramid scheme and you admitted it in your first sentence. The PLD bringing in hard currency to support the peso (non liquid currency) to create an artificial environment to foster a confidence scheme (sounds like a MLM to me, but heck I am just the motley foo :tired: l).

The more a read of you the more you sound like a proverbial two-bit hustler, time take it elsewhere unless you can argue your points more effectively.
 

Lurch

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Aug 8, 2003
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iluvdr said:
One down on this forum !
There out to be some sort of an ethics committee on this forum... The nerve of some people calling others ignorant or uneducated!!! Who?s the donkey now?
Seems like there is no stopping the pesos ... to all of you interested in investing in CB CD's ...Just a small hint, it want get any better then this! Fasten your seat belt, the currency should rise very strongly in the coming months, unfortunately the interest rates will start to decline as well! No one could predict for how long this window of opportunity will stay open?
Unlike some people, if I am wrong on this, I will gladly apologize to the whole forum and kiss a donkey on it?s rear end ;) (and you could take that promise to the bank!)

Oh it seems you posted again, I am a bit jet lagged this evening thus I shall respond tommorrow.

Well perhaps not as your posting doesn't seem to be anything other than a cry for more my attention. Were you lonely over the weekend? :confused:
 

Mr_DR

Silver
May 12, 2002
2,506
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sagfil said:
So yes, if you buy a 1 year-certificate of Banco Central for 5000 usd at 26% you will get after 1 year 5200 usd of interests net!
Sorry if I detailed too much what I went through but it could be helpfull for other people to know.

You mean with $20,000.00 USD will ROI $5200.00 USD at 26%
 

Mr_DR

Silver
May 12, 2002
2,506
60
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Bartolomeo67 said:
26% and even 20% is surely a great return but there are a lot of 'but's and 'if's and exchange rate risks.
What are everyone's reasons to prefer this risky investment with some inconvenient practicalities over the stockmarket which is doing really well?
Just made +10% return in the first 2 months of the year myself.
Bartolomeo
If there is something very risky it is the stock market.

You can lose your shirt before you even put it on.
I have loss a lot of money in it....You can lose 20% in just one day
and it does not matters how good the company you are investing is doing.

All it takes is a negative comment, a lawsuit or a very bad quarter or the analysts call misses.

If you talk about a very risky way of investing your money, the stock market is among the top......Because too much BS controls the market..On one side you have the press releases, the analysts, Green Span with his FED interests
Un employment, the oil prices, the profit takers and all the other bs that i am not gonna waste my breath talking about.

You made a 10% already in just two months? then just enjoy it because you are in very volatile market in which any negative news can have a very big impact on your position and also not counting in consideration all the money that you pay in brokerage fees.
 

iluvdr

New member
Aug 24, 2004
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I try my best...

mondongo said:
iluvdr, congratulations in picking the bottom of the DR$ last summer. If you can consistently pick the tops/bottoms of markets, you would be an Einstein level genius. Doing it once or twice does not count. We have all done that. You cannot name a single economist or analyst that claims to be able to pick market tops/bottoms.

If you think you can time markets consistently, call me. We'll both retire wealthy within the year. Count your blessings, iluvdr.

Thanks mondongo, I am flatered! Unfortunately you are right, no one can predict for sure tops and bottom of markets, my evaluation is notting more then an educated guess (...a bit like Christopher Columbus when he decided to part to America). But I would welcome yours, maybe we should get together and exchanges opinions, we might be able to figure this thing out!

Good luck!
 
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NotLurking

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Jul 21, 2003
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I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. Investing, in general, is a gamble. Even investments that appear rock solid can have very different results than those projected. It is my opinion that the risk of the stock market (SM) is no better than that of the CB's CDs. The projected gain (ROI) of the CB's CDs in comparison to the SM is much better. The savings from taxes and commission from investing in these CDs as opposed to the SM is reason enough to sway me to invest in CB's CDs.

For me, any propensity I have to invest in the SM is nullified by the likes of Merk (hit by Vioxx recall), Martha Stewart (when convicted) and the infamous internet bubble.

The SM is full of examples of why you should not invest in it but that doesn't stop people from gambling...err investing their money in the hopes of making a pretty penny.

Currency and economic speculation is a double edge sword. You can make a boat load (George Soros) or lose your shirt (too many to list). The truth is the DR is ripe for currency and economic speculation - those that assert with their speculations/evaluations (Voodoo) will make money. This type of investment strategy is not for everyone and those considering entering this market should do so with caution or if in doubt perhaps should find another investing option. Whatever investing venue you choose remember no investment is 100% and that is exactly why you make money. The money made is payment for the risk taken. The bigger the risk the high the return.
 

iluvdr

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Aug 24, 2004
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Bull's eye!

NotLurking said:
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. Investing, in general, is a gamble. Even investments that appear rock solid can have very different results than those projected.

THAT'S WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY ALL ALONG!
Thanks notlurking, you have enlighten this post with your clear and accurate comments!
Beware... Lurch will come after you and call you uneducated and ignorant for your views, unless offcourse, I am the only one being targeted?!
 

Bartolomeo67

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Mar 18, 2004
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Mr_DR said:
If there is something very risky it is the stock market.

I agree with your comment. I was only pointing out that the stock market is doing well this year and it's worthwhile putting some of your money in it right now. I know this won't last forever and I will probably pull out in 2-3 months time if stockprices keep rising.
As for brokerage fees, the very point is to refrain from doing impulsive buy/sell transactions and be patient.
Bartolomeo
 

mondongo

Bronze
Jan 1, 2002
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iluvdr...I think that Lurch has been trying to impart some wisdom...I don't know how long you (and Bartolomeo,too) have been investing/trading in the financial markets...but I can tell you from long experience with serious dough on the line, that what you guys are doing is speculation and unless you have a gift from god, it is difficult to maintain success over the long haul.

Maybe you guys are the exception, but the vast majority of small speculators end up losing their money.

Good luck to all, and don't lose all your money trading Bundesbank interest rate futures!
 

johne

Silver
Jun 28, 2003
7,140
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And it's possible...

mondongo said:
iluvdr...I think that Lurch has been trying to impart some wisdom...I don't know how long you (and Bartolomeo,too) have been investing/trading in the financial markets...but I can tell you from long experience with serious dough on the line, that what you guys are doing is speculation and unless you have a gift from god, it is difficult to maintain success over the long haul.

Maybe you guys are the exception, but the vast majority of small speculators end up losing their money.

Good luck to all, and don't lose all your money trading Bundesbank interest rate futures!

that some of these people are not familiar with P.T. Barnum adage "there's a sucker born every minute" :>

JOHN
 

Escott

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Jan 14, 2002
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iluvdr said:
THAT'S WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY ALL ALONG!
Thanks notlurking, you have enlighten this post with your clear and accurate comments!
Beware... Lurch will come after you and call you uneducated and ignorant for your views, unless offcourse, I am the only one being targeted?!
Well, maybe you are the only one looking to spend 1000$ US a night for a women withOUT sex:)

Lurch has some sort of clue to what goes on here. I have my doubts about you.
 

iluvdr

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Aug 24, 2004
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Another Lurch fan...

Hey guys, let gets something clear ... I am not the one asking for advice here and this is certainly not a popularity contest, I could not care less how anyone feels or doesn't feel about me, I have already made my investment and very happy with it, Thank you!
I am just giving my opinion to someone that wants to take the same route...
There's no need here for name calling! I found Mr. Lurch highly disrespectful and certainly conceded... I made it a point to stand up to him.
His affirmation before Christmas about the pesos devaluating, it turned out to be totally erroneous and therefore, I would recommend caution to any one taking his advice on currency exchange or investments...
As for my unconventional business approach, well, lets not mix apples and oranges; I don't understand how this reflects on my opinions about investing in the Central Bank CD's?! Unlike lurch, I highly recommended members on this forum to buy, back in August when the pesos was at 40 and the rates where at 36%. I reentered my suggestion early on in December when the pesos was at 30 and the rates at 32% and I still recommend it today at 28 with the rates at 24%. I have been right, right and maybe right again... All of you can gang up on me as much as you like, but it will not change the outcome. I have doubled my investment in less then a year and very proud of myself, recently I have brought more CD?s and I am convinced that it was a good move?All matters considered, this investment is a good bang for the buck!!!
 
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Escott

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Jan 14, 2002
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iluvdr said:
Hey guys, let gets something clear ... I am not the one asking for advice here and this is certainly not a popularity contest, I could not care less how anyone feels or doesn't feel about me, I have already made my investment and very happy with it, Thank you!
I am just giving my opinion to someone that wants to take the same route...
There's no need here for name calling! I found Mr. Lurch highly disrespectful and certainly conceded... I made it a point to stand up to him.
His affirmation before Christmas about the pesos devaluating, it turned out to be totally erroneous and therefore, I would recommend caution to any one taking his advice on currency exchange or investments...
As for my unconventional business approach, well, lets not mix apples and oranges; I don't understand how this reflects on my opinions about investing in the Central Bank CD's?! Unlike lurch, I highly recommended members on this forum to buy, back in August when the pesos was at 40 and the rates where at 36%. I reentered my suggestion early on in December when the pesos was at 30 and the rates at 32% and I still recommend it today at 28 with the rates at 24%. I have been right, right and maybe right again... All of you can gang up on me as much as you like, but it will not change the outcome. I have doubled my investment in less then a year and very proud of myself, recently I have brought more CD?s and I am convinced that it was a good move?All matters considered, this investment is a good bang for the buck!!!
Nothing personal but you may have picked the ONLY TIME IN 40 years where the peso appreciated 60% against every other currency in the world for NO REASON WHATSOEVER other than VOODOO economics practiced by a bunch of crooks but better known in the DR as the "GOVERNMENT". Before that the peso went from 16 to 53 in 1.5 years and anyone owning any of these bad boys lost their ASSES. I am in US Dollars and some Euros and plan on staying that way. I sleep better at night and am still better off than what you made in a few months. Stay where you are and the see-saw will bounce your arse with more ease than you can
possibly imagine.

So how was the sexless 1000 US Dollar a day "ESCORT"?
 

NotLurking

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Jul 21, 2003
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Escott you are correct in pointing out that the DR economy is volatile and that iluvdr lucked out as have many (including me). But it is unfair to say that those that stuck to their guns lost their shirts!

Lets say for argument sake you had US$100k in 2000. The exchange rate hovered around 16 to 1. If you exchanged your money back then you had RD$1.6 Mil. Banco Popular was paying around 14-16% on CDs (if I recall correctly)

1.6 * 15% = 1.84 mil (2001)
1.84 * 15% = 2.116 mil (2002)

In 2002 banks were paying 19-21+% on CDs

2.116 * 20% = 2.539 mil (2003)

in 2003 BC at close to 60%

2.539 *55% = 3.935 (2004)

Exchange rate in 2004 is at 29 to 1 which would be
3,935,000 / 29.5 = ~US$133k

Earning US$33k in 4 years is not equivalent to loosing your shirt! It's equal to making ~8% on your US$100k every year for the past 4 years. Some would consider that quite a respectable return. Albeit, it was LUCK to the enth degree.

NotLurking.
 

mondongo

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Jan 1, 2002
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NotLurking, while not exactly spot on, your math does point out a very dangerous observation. Had you made a similar calculation last June, you would have come up with less than US$70K.

The reason your numbers work out today is that we now have a de-facto fixed exchange rate that, by most accounts, is not correct.

Additionally, when determining whether an 8% return is good, it has to weighed against risk and volatility.

You can now get GM bonds for 7%, but that's because they may not be able to pay you.
 

sagfil

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Feb 28, 2005
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still me, the Italian guy who does not speak English well.There has been a lot of discussion about the fluctuation of the exchange rate and other issues that are definetely important in order to understand if you make or not a good bussiness in buying these certificates, but it has not been taken into consideration the most important thing that really pisses me off, that is: is there a higly possibility that the Banco Central does not pay your money back (like it happened in Argentina, Mexico, Venezuela)? Is there anyone who went through this bad experience (even in other countries) and wants to share it with us?