Coronavirus - In the DR

Cdn_Gringo

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Apr 29, 2014
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There are no completely accurate numbers of infected being reported anywhere. That's the nature of after the fact testing of those with symptoms - with a representative sampling you are always a few weeks behind the virus . However, more testing can give a more accurate picture of what is happening in a population. A million tests per day would be more representative than 500,000 tests and a whole lot more reflective than just 2000. As the understanding of the spread of infection becomes more nebulous the more likely it is for a country to make policy mistakes that compound the problem needlessly.

If 2000 tests is the best the DR can do, that that's the best they can do. I don't personally believe that is the case but I also understand blissful ignorance when it comes to potentially deflecting accountability and the very real need to get to the place in time when this economy can begin to sponge up foreign currency again. I'm not sure if opening the tourist sector sooner and then having no one come is better than just waiting until the travel restrictions are lifted in the countries that provide the bulk of travelers for these businesses.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
 

Cdn_Gringo

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Apr 29, 2014
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I don't see any difference in a 30 stay extension of the S.O.E. than 2 fifteen day extensions or 3 ten day extensions.
 

etolw

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Oct 6, 2018
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I agree that the headline case statistics are not useful for comparison. If you focus on severe/critical hospitalisation statistics you will have a better measure. And look at how many people on average died e.g last month vs. normal average from previous year.

DR should aim to maximise the amount of economic activity that doesn’t overwhelm their hospital system.

There are four main gaps between reported cases and actual cases:

  1. Insufficient testing: Countries that do not have the systems or capacity to test properly
  2. Yet to be reported cases: People who have the virus but are either: yet to show symptoms, yet to be tested, or had a test that showed a false negative
  3. Asymptomatic cases: Estimates are that around half of all people who get the virus will never show symptoms
  4. Deliberately under-reported: Some countries look to be deliberately under-reporting cases

The economic trade-off:
  1. Humanitarian. The bigger the shutdowns, the greater the preventative measures, the fewer people will die.
  2. Economic. The bigger the shutdowns, the greater the preventative measures, the more significant the economic impact will be.
So far I am happy with my decision to go against my home country advise, and turned down their offer to have a ferry flight out. I preferred to remain here, understanding that I have to face the consequences.

I agree with the decisions that the DR government has done so far, hospitals occupation and the number of deaths taken in consideration compared with many other countries.

But nobody knows how this will end. So far I am still enjoying my life in the DR, but hope the situation allows for more restrictions to be lifted soon.

I feel with those suffering, both financially and with illness/death.

Looking forward to enjoying everything DR has to offer again
 

Caonabo

ABINADER 2020
Sep 27, 2017
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The reality is that here in RD nobody is aware if persons are dying because of the coronavirus, or if persons dying simply test positive for the corona virus.
Two separate and very different situations, which for whatever reason, most do not want to acknowledge.
They are not the same thing.
What is known after all this time, is that we are not seeing the same death tolls as elsewhere within the globe.
 
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william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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I agree that the headline case statistics are not useful for comparison. If you focus on severe/critical hospitalisation statistics you will have a better measure. And look at how many people on average died e.g last month vs. normal average from previous year.

DR should aim to maximise the amount of economic activity that doesn’t overwhelm their hospital system.

There are four main gaps between reported cases and actual cases:

  1. Insufficient testing: Countries that do not have the systems or capacity to test properly
  2. Yet to be reported cases: People who have the virus but are either: yet to show symptoms, yet to be tested, or had a test that showed a false negative
  3. Asymptomatic cases: Estimates are that around half of all people who get the virus will never show symptoms
  4. Deliberately under-reported: Some countries look to be deliberately under-reporting cases

The economic trade-off:
  1. Humanitarian. The bigger the shutdowns, the greater the preventative measures, the fewer people will die.
  2. Economic. The bigger the shutdowns, the greater the preventative measures, the more significant the economic impact will be.
So far I am happy with my decision to go against my home country advise, and turned down their offer to have a ferry flight out. I preferred to remain here, understanding that I have to face the consequences.

I agree with the decisions that the DR government has done so far, hospitals occupation and the number of deaths taken in consideration compared with many other countries.

But nobody knows how this will end. So far I am still enjoying my life in the DR, but hope the situation allows for more restrictions to be lifted soon.

I feel with those suffering, both financially and with illness/death.

Looking forward to enjoying everything DR has to offer again
I concur..... if mistakes are being made here.... they are the ones that many countries are experiencing


The reality is that here in RD nobody is aware if persons are dying because of the coronavirus, or if persons dying simply test positive for the corona virus.
Two separate and very different situations, which for whatever reason, most do not want to acknowledge.
They are not the same thing.
What is known after all this time, is that we are not seeing the same death tolls as elsewhere within the globe.
Again, the whole world suffers from this type of 'reporting'

Which in fact, may not be reporting at all as properly defined
 
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MikeFisher

Well-known member
There are no completely accurate numbers of infected being reported anywhere. That's the nature of after the fact testing of those with symptoms - with a representative sampling you are always a few weeks behind the virus . However, more testing can give a more accurate picture of what is happening in a population. A million tests per day would be more representative than 500,000 tests and a whole lot more reflective than just 2000. As the understanding of the spread of infection becomes more nebulous the more likely it is for a country to make policy mistakes that compound the problem needlessly.

If 2000 tests is the best the DR can do, that that's the best they can do. I don't personally believe that is the case but I also understand blissful ignorance when it comes to potentially deflecting accountability and the very real need to get to the place in time when this economy can begin to sponge up foreign currency again. I'm not sure if opening the tourist sector sooner and then having no one come is better than just waiting until the travel restrictions are lifted in the countries that provide the bulk of travelers for these businesses.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
countries would most likely not cosider travel restrictions to destinations who still don't even have any reopening/border opening plan.
on those 2 sides there has to be one who does the first step.
of course it only fruits once both sides of a flight route have their stuff open.
 

MikeFisher

Well-known member
I don't see any difference in a 30 stay extension of the S.O.E. than 2 fifteen day extensions or 3 ten day extensions.
there are very huge and for Free people very important differences to be under a SOE or not,
as such situation gives un-normal powers to the executive, which a free country does not like to have without a inmediate danger/situation present.
like a SOE government can assign curfews at they please.
as a german born/raised, unless the russians already arrived at the outer boundaries of Berlin, a curfew would lead to a revolution, lol.
short 15 days terms of such to be then evaluated by the involved deciding parties, which in our bi-camera system involve the opposition as a equal deciding powercompared to the reigning powers, are in my personal opinion the way to go.
long terms of whole months or 90 days SOE phases mean that the extra powers are given to the reigning group and then for a quarter of a year they have to explain nothing to anybody and can do legally as they please.
I am myself too far from any Right side to accept such, but thats just myself.
before some wrong impression come's up,
I am also a full anti-commy, nothing anywhere a super socialsit or such crap.
 

william webster

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2009
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There is logic in the 2 week limits to a lockdown/quarantine

1/
2 x 15 days = 1month

2/
it is a nice period to examine the virus results - cases & deaths

3/
it ensures that the politico doesn't get power crazy
even racehorses are held back on their speed until needed...

15 day bites suits me to a 'T'....... Mr T....
 

jd426

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2009
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Exactly - FisherMan

I am watching the US border much closer than the RD border
The tail does NOT wag the dog

If the DR opens the border---- where will we go if no others are open ???
Um, Tourists come to visit, and go back home..back home is always open to them.
or did i read that wrong.
Although , yes, the USA will probably have to open first before the DR will consider it, as they follow the leader .
 

MikeFisher

Well-known member
If they don't extend the SOE, then by definition would la cuarantena expire?
exactly.
no extention would mean that everybody would do by their own "common sense".
weel,
I live here so long, more than a quarter century, most of my adults life, so i guess i can say i know the DR on many points quiet well, lol.
but when it come's to leave common sence decisions to our DR Population,
you could also leave it to your 'hood's Lobo to be in charge to take good care about the 'hood's sheeps herd.
we need some powers to dictate us wht is the best behavior of our's to stay fine as best as possible by own possible powers.
sure, we hate the powers for telling us that, right away, and heartfully,
but we also under the line go by the orders.
so this is a always running cat and mouse game.even showing up very different, it is really not that much different in 1st world countries, when you cut all the crap down to the basics.
my buddy in Michigan/USA, a 10000%%% Trumpeter, in a Democratic run state of the huge and full of divercity powerful USA,
is living these times under some of the strictest restrictions due Covid19 of the country,
brought to him by a Democrat Leadership, with him to be pure Republican Blood(rumors tell most of his blood is Amish, but not wanting to sweep too far from the theme).
Michigan is running tight restrictions lines and they do by numbers/stats not that bad.
and he, the Republican full-blood, is running acording to those Democrats given rules/recommendations.
and they do very fine doing so.
so under the line,
the herd is following,
even when politiacl or other views are completely different/contrary.
this is not meant to be any political theme, doesn't matter who like which side of the 2 leading US political parties/movements.
he is one of my most loved buddies, we have full contrary political opinions about anyways His country's politics, where I do not live in.
just an example out of Real Life with Real People, average people.

a extention for an other Quinzena/around 15 days,
is in my personal opinion the right thng to do.
and I personally would even see it positive to use those hopefully approved extented SOE powers,
to also extend the Curfew for the whole country for the same time period to be the SOE.
but thats just my point of view, of course.
 

MikeFisher

Well-known member
I agree that the headline case statistics are not useful for comparison. If you focus on severe/critical hospitalisation statistics you will have a better measure. And look at how many people on average died e.g last month vs. normal average from previous year.

DR should aim to maximise the amount of economic activity that doesn’t overwhelm their hospital system.

There are four main gaps between reported cases and actual cases:

  1. Insufficient testing: Countries that do not have the systems or capacity to test properly
  2. Yet to be reported cases: People who have the virus but are either: yet to show symptoms, yet to be tested, or had a test that showed a false negative
  3. Asymptomatic cases: Estimates are that around half of all people who get the virus will never show symptoms
  4. Deliberately under-reported: Some countries look to be deliberately under-reporting cases

The economic trade-off:
  1. Humanitarian. The bigger the shutdowns, the greater the preventative measures, the fewer people will die.
  2. Economic. The bigger the shutdowns, the greater the preventative measures, the more significant the economic impact will be.
So far I am happy with my decision to go against my home country advise, and turned down their offer to have a ferry flight out. I preferred to remain here, understanding that I have to face the consequences.

I agree with the decisions that the DR government has done so far, hospitals occupation and the number of deaths taken in consideration compared with many other countries.

But nobody knows how this will end. So far I am still enjoying my life in the DR, but hope the situation allows for more restrictions to be lifted soon.

I feel with those suffering, both financially and with illness/death.

Looking forward to enjoying everything DR has to offer again
now thats a statement i can agree with, by my personal sight/view/feelings/guts etc.
and of course mine doesn't have to be the same for others, we are all different, different raised, different well off to stand a shut down, different influenced economically/business wise due a shut down etc etc etc
but my concensus is the same as you named it:
the DR has to reopen it's different parts of it's economy as much/quick as the health care system can cope up with.
and to me, at this moment, it looks like thats what the DR is trying to do.
open some(and we reopened many last wednesday), then see how it results during the next couple weeks.
if it looks good/acceptable/within the manageable boundaries, take the next step.
if it looks less favorable than expected, add more time/continue with the further steps slower than originally planned.

btw, as you mentioned you decided not to take a ferry flight,
which is yoru country of origin, how long are you here in DR, alone or with family(locally or brought from abroad)?
 
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william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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Um, Tourists come to visit, and go back home..back home is always open to them.
or did i read that wrong.
Although , yes, the USA will probably have to open first before the DR will consider it, as they follow the leader .

Yes - you read it wrong

1/
where will we - the DR residents - go if no borders are open



We need more open borders to even think about this...
to some extent - we are ALL trapped here....
 
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MikeFisher

Well-known member
and here we see how different things are seen/moving in different countries.
I was out of the hosue this morning til 30 minutes ago, so i did not read all new stuff of todays, yet.
but here we have France, a well off and big country, hit hard, reopening measures taken early, on a step back.
to me such reports show, that all this stuff is still too New to every country, to every scientist.
nobody has a real "valid for all" clue about the Covid19 desease thingy.
we will continue to see changes on things all the time for a longer while,
because such thing can only be brought to a accurate definition once long term studies been done from all angles.
til now, we are all at the beginning to understand that stuff, at the very beginning with no real clue.
 

MikeFisher

Well-known member
Exactly - FisherMan

I am watching the US border much closer than the RD border
The tail does NOT wag the dog

If the DR opens the border---- where will we go if no others are open ???
right, and with a tricky backdoor.
if one suggerates a too early opening, like Mexico,
it may become a target of irresponsibility and be blacklisted as not safe and bite the own tail.
it is a fine line between one and the other extreme.
who waits too long, will miss the train.
who jumps on too early, may be on a train but without fuel in the tank to reach the planned destin.
 

MikeFisher

Well-known member
Um, Tourists come to visit, and go back home..back home is always open to them.
or did i read that wrong.
Although , yes, the USA will probably have to open first before the DR will consider it, as they follow the leader .
wrong understanding of his post.
he meant,
when one mayor vacation destin is Open and the others are still closed,
where will the ones, who dearly wanna go on vacay NOW, go?
they will go to the one which is open.
and NO,
the DR will not wait til the USA(our prime producer of tourist visitors) will reopen,
that would be the stupiest thing to do as a tourist destination.
the DR has to reopen by themself, even before the USA reopens any border,
and show that the destin is safe, like specially Punta Cana, that it is safe to reopen USA borders for travels to the DR.
like measures(I completely hate it but understand it's positive, even that it keeps my own business completely nuked and out of the game for a while)
that prohibid visitors to leave the "safe" route of Home Country-Destin Airport-Transfer to safe Resort-NOT leaving Resort-Transfer back to PC Airport-Arrival back home at airport, without leaving the resorts, without participating in any local excursion/activity Off Resort, without any contact with DR Citizens other than the strictly checked/ruled Resort Staff and airport and transfer staff.
again, it is a way which nukes my own toursim business here in DR,
but it is def a way which show's the big Tourist Providers, like the USA, that a destination is safe for their travelers,
so there's the best chance that a travel warning to DR will be lifted, the DR been seen as a safe place to have vacay at.
so that would be a point where such countries, like the USA, would say "yes, we open the borders to DR, we see it as safe to travel to DR, so our med insurers are Obliged to cover traves to DR".
 
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william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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That seems to be the plan Mike - from what I read

Sequestered is the English word
Locked up - it means - separated

IN the resort = quarantine and vacay = one nice (not so nice ) holiday package
In reality - many tourists stay 'on site' for their visit
 

MikeFisher

Well-known member
Yes - you read it wrong

1/
where will we - the DR residents - go if no borders are open



We need more open borders to even think about this...
to some extent - we are ALL trapped here....
i dont see it that way.
from the DR to many different destinations, since 2 months, specially at the beginning,
many many many ferry flights been available.
who wanted to return to his/her home country, could have done so.
who waited too long, should not blame any government(not here nor there) nor blame any Virus.
and anyways, what is "trapped"in such situatiom?
I live here since over a quarter century,
kids all born here,
aside of my usual 7 weeks summer break visits to germany with my daughter, i never had the intention to move back and LIVE again in germany/my birth country, as i decided a very long time ago that i want to spend my life and raise kids here, in DR.
we could have bought a ticket on many ferry flights, we both hold a german passport and have a home direction/house there.
but such never occured to me and never will, as my self choosen home country been selected a very long time ago.

the DR Borders never been closed for Residents who wnated to go back home to their country of which they have theor passport from.
none of those could tell me he/she is "starnded" in the DR.
 
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