Crime and violence in DR, how will it stop?

[Riu]

Originally Posted by FuegoAzul21
"get rid of the haitians , they re the biggest criminals of all"

Don't blame him, we all tend to stereotype, it simplifies things... For example, I think Dominicans are more prone to violent crimes than Haitians, but Haitians almost without exception are given to petty thievery... If you ask me, the biggest criminals are the authorities, who should give the example. Unpunished corruption from those in authority demoralizes the entire society, to the point that criminals rationalize their actions by stating things like: "Well, if the President can steal, why cant' I".

Mirador

Stereotyping brings about prejudice. Prejudice becomes the tool for scapegoating. Then we end up back where we started blaming others and perpetuating a corrupt system. Group x or Group Y is "prone to" just does not compute, we are all "prone to" given the circumstance. Belonging to X or Y group does not make you prone, your environment does.

 

[Larry]

Stereotyping brings about prejudice. Prejudice becomes the tool for scapegoating. Then we end up back where we started blaming others and perpetuating a corrupt system.

I agree. I agree. That's why you have to emotionally detach yourself from the subject and look at it objectively. If Hatians are causing the problem ( I don't think they are....I don't want my point to get lost in presuming that I do) then you are being counterproductive in refusing to explore it and possibly come up with an idea/ideas that would help rectify the situation without affecting the Hatians who are not involved. Don't get lost in a sea of Political Correctness like so many others do.

Read my previous post in case you missed it.

Larry

 

[Riu]

A bit racist?? How do you figure? I am not saying that he is right in saying that the Hatians are the root cause of the problem but if they ARE, then he is only stating the truth or at the very least, whether they are or not, he is stating what he believes to be true. The thread is about ways to alleviate crime in the DR. He has made an overture to solve the problem. Don't immediately dismiss it and cry "racism" because you have been programmed by society to do so. For if the influx of Hatians into the DR IS a big contributer to the current crime wave, you have effectively prevented yourself from looking at a possible angle in solving it. Maybe you wouldn't agree with deporting all Hatians but by examining the problem, you may come up with another idea/angle in curbing the Hatian influence on crime. Don't cheat yourself and curb your thought process by immediately raising the racism "flag" or any other PC flag that society has programmed you into doing. Look at the object from all angles. Be a free thinker.

Larry

Maybe they are, maybe they are not. But I don't think is just that you or anyone else would generalize by such an insult to a race. When it is stated that the Haitians are the criminals, that is simply inexplicable to me. What happened to all men are created equal. Give the right circumstance you too could be a criminal, would it be fair for me to say that all of your race are criminals? Keep in mind, I am in no way making excuses. If you are a criminal you should pay the price, no matter your creed, no matter you color, no matter your religion, no matter your social status, simple. Let's not blame the status of a current system on a race, since the status is due in large part not by Haitians but by a combination of political corruption, greed and ignorance.

 

[Riu]

I agree. I agree. That's why you have to emotionally detach yourself from the subject and look at it objectively. If Hatians are causing the problem ( I don't think they are....I don't want my point to get lost in presuming that I do) then you are being counterproductive in refusing to explore it and possibly come up with an idea/ideas that would help rectify the situation without affecting the Hatians who are not involved. Don't get lost in a sea of Political Correctness like so many others do.

Read my previous post in case you missed it.

Larry

Like a said, if you are a criminal then you should be punished no matter if you are Haitian, Dominican, American or whatever.

 

[Larry]

Maybe they are, maybe they are not. But I don't think is just that you or anyone else would generalize by such an insult to a race. When it is stated that the Haitians are the criminals, that is simply inexplicable to me. What happened to all men are created equal. Give the right circumstance you too could be a criminal, would it be fair for me to say that all of your race are criminals? Keep in mind, I am in no way making excuses. If you are a criminal you should pay the price, no matter your creed, no matter you color, no matter your religion, no matter your social status, simple. Let's not blame the status of a current system on a race, since the status is due in large part not by Haitians but by a combination of political corruption, greed and ignorance.

It amazes me how narrow minded some ultra liberals are. They say we only use 7% of our brain mass. I think ultra liberals use about 5%. You refuse to read what I say and digest it. You immediately lunge back with the same programmed responses. Must be easy going through life in a mental tunnel.

Larry

 

[Riu]

It amazes me how narrow minded some ultra liberals are. They say we only use 7% of our brain mass. I think ultra liberals use about 5%. You refuse to read what I say and digest it. You immediately lunge back with the same programmed responses. Must be easy going through life in a mental tunnel.

Larry

Please, Larry do not take offense, as I am referring to the original post by fuegoazul. When I refered to you I was simply "stereotyping". I am not lunging, I am merely stating consequences of preprogramed behavior. I am not liberal nor conservative, I just do not have a taste for politics. In short, I found very wrong of fuegoazul to make that comment, it just isn't right, and I am sure other readers would agree. I just look at bigger pictures I guess. I thought that we would be a little more passed that. Would you agree?

 

[NALs]

Don't you think that is a bit racist?

What FuegoAzul said about "getting rid of the Haitians, they are the biggest criminal of all" lies right on the racist/reality line.

However, under the law of any country, a person that enters illegally is by law a criminal for breaking the laws of that country by going in illegally. As such, Haitians and other foreigners in the country who are here illegally ought to be deported, but if they got their legal situation figure out, then they should stay.

The only problem (when explaining it to the human rights organizations) is that the vast majority of Haitians are in the DR illegally and as such, mass deportation will be a feature of the landscape for a small while.

 

[Riu]

What FuegoAzul said about "getting rid of the Haitians, they are the biggest criminal of all" lies right on the racist/reality line.

However, under the law of any country, a person that enters illegally is by law a criminal for breaking the laws of that country by going in illegally. As such, Haitians and other foreigners in the country who are here illegally ought to be deported, but if they got their legal situation figure out, then they should stay.

The only problem (when explaining it to the human rights organizations) is that the vast majority of Haitians are in the DR illegally and as such, mass deportation will be a feature of the landscape for a small while.

I clearly see your point Nal0whs, and I agree with you. However, there is a difference between being labeled "the biggest criminal of all" and being illegally domiciled in a foreign country.

Example, one of the largest minorities in the U.S. are Mexicans, many, and I mean many, are in the U.S. illegally. I do not applaud they being illegal in the U.S., but one fact remains, they work very hard, and not all of them are criminals, would it be right for me to labeled them as "the biggest criminal of all", granted they have committed a crime by entering illegally, but is that label warranted or deserved?

 

[NALs]

I clearly see your point Nal0whs, and I agree with you. However, there is a difference between being labeled "the biggest criminal of all" and being illegally domiciled in a foreign country.

Example, one of the largest minorities in the U.S. are Mexicans, many, and I mean many, are in the U.S. illegally. I do not applaud they being illegal in the U.S., but one fact remains, they work very hard, and not all of them are criminals, would it be right for me to labeled them as "the biggest criminal of all", granted they have committed a crime by entering illegally, but is that label warranted or deserved?

They might not be warranted such grandiose label, but they are still a form of criminal under the law and as such, must receive some repercussion for their illicit actions of entering illegally.

Also, keep in mind that illegal immigrants in any country usually experience less than perfect conditions and rights compared to their legal counterpart. Under such notion, it makes sense to assume to illegal (not all, but probably a higher percentage of population compared to the overall population) would resort to violence and actual crime in order to release their building up anger.

I would think that between a poor native of any country who is hungry and has nothing and a poor illegal immigrant who is also hungry and has nothing but is constantly harrassed, abused, and mistreated, I think the illegal would be much more likely to create a crime out of a burst of anger than the poor native.

Notice, both are still prone to do criminal activities due to their circumstances of low self esteem, but the illegal has a slight higher chance, thus the assumption that crime is exacerbated by illegals is born. Whether is true or not remains to be seen, but the truth is that any crime (little or big) done by an illegal is a crime that should have never taken place because that illegal was not suppose to be in the country to start with if he/she were law abbiding citizens, meaning not have broken the migration laws from the start.

I do see your point, but there is alot more to this issue than meets the eye.

 

[Riu]

They might not be warranted such grandiose label, but they are still a form of criminal under the law and as such, must receive some repercussion for their illicit actions of entering illegally.

Also, keep in mind that illegal immigrants in any country usually experience less than perfect conditions and rights compared to their legal counterpart. Under such notion, it makes sense to assume to illegal (not all, but probably a higher percentage of population compared to the overall population) would resort to violence and actual crime in order to release their building up anger.

I would think that between a poor native of any country who is hungry and has nothing and a poor illegal immigrant who is also hungry and has nothing but is constantly harrassed, abused, and mistreated, I think the illegal would be much more likely to create a crime out of a burst of anger than the poor native.

Notice, both are still prone to do criminal activities due to their circumstances of low self esteem, but the illegal has a slight higher chance, thus the assumption that crime is exacerbated by illegals is born. Whether is true or not remains to be seen, but the truth is that any crime (little or big) done by an illegal is a crime that should have never taken place because that illegal was not suppose to be in the country to start with if he/she were law abbiding citizens, meaning not have broken the migration laws from the start.

I do see your point, but there is alot more to this issue than meets the eye.

I agree. But this is your point of view, my point of view, and everyone else's point of view which will all be, although similar, but slightly different or totally different all together. You assumptions do have basis on the count they are most likely to be oppressed and angry, but I would like to compare them to actual factual data. Although we are entitled to our own opinions as individuals, you think the comment was harsh? Or you think it was correct, although made by "assumption of" Haitians being the bigger criminals?

 

[NALs]

Although we are entitled to our own opinions as individuals, you think the comment was harsh? Or you think it was correct, although made by "assumption of" Haitians being the bigger criminals?

I don't think the comment was harsh or correct. I do think the comment is understandable given that foreigners in any country (particularly poor foreigners) usually fall prey to racism or anti-immigrant remarks. All of that is perfectly understandable, thus I don't consider the comment to be harsh - though it might be a bit on the racist side, but then again, the same applies in that respect.

Whether it was correct, as I already noted I don't think it was 100% correct either. Not all Haitians or other immigrants in this country are criminals, only those who have broken the laws are regardless if they only broke the migration law or the more serious law such as the laws against murder, stealing, etc. Because his comments puts all Haitians in the same bucket, that simple three letter word makes the comment incorrect.

Then again, such comment is understadable given the situations the country faces today and the reality that the country doesn't really needs more unskilled workers. As a response to such case, people resort to such remarks.

I think his/her remarks about the Haitians had understandable intentions behind it, but many people just took the remark at face value. As you can see, at face value the comment appears to be very racist and almost incomprehensible to a person that don't know or understand the relationship of Dominicans-Haitians through the years.

Hopefully you see what I am saying here. Thus far we seem to have a sort of common ground in certain aspect of this issue.

 

[Riu]

I don't think the comment was harsh or correct. I do think the comment is understandable given that foreigners in any country (particularly poor foreigners) usually fall prey to racism or anti-immigrant remarks. All of that is perfectly understandable, thus I don't consider the comment to be harsh - though it might be a bit on the racist side, but then again, the same applies in that respect.

Whether it was correct, as I already noted I don't think it was 100% correct either. Not all Haitians or other immigrants in this country are criminals, only those who have broken the laws are regardless if they only broke the migration law or the more serious law such as the laws against murder, stealing, etc. Because his comments puts all Haitians in the same bucket, that simple three letter word makes the comment incorrect.

Then again, such comment is understadable given the situations the country faces today and the reality that the country doesn't really needs more unskilled workers. As a response to such case, people resort to such remarks.

I think his/her remarks about the Haitians had understandable intentions behind it, but many people just took the remark at face value. As you can see, at face value the comment appears to be very racist and almost incomprehensible to a person that don't know or understand the relationship of Dominicans-Haitians through the years.

Hopefully you see what I am saying here. Thus far we seem to have a sort of common ground in certain aspect of this issue.

"Because his comments puts all Haitians in the same bucket, that simple three letter word makes the comment incorrect."

That is exactly what I meant. There may be some truth in the comment but it puts all Haitians in the same bucket regardless of the Dominican-Haitian relationship. I do see what you mean. Still my morals lead me to think of that as being wrong at face value or not.

 

[NALs]

"Because his comments puts all Haitians in the same bucket, that simple three letter word makes the comment incorrect."

That is exactly what I meant. There may be some truth in the comment but it puts all Haitians in the same bucket regardless of the Dominican-Haitian relationship. I do see what you mean. Still my morals lead me to think of that as being wrong at face value or not.

I think we have taken a common ground in the areas that common ground can be taken with such issue.

We agree with everything here, except that last bit on whether it was really wrong or not. I think that part of the issue is up to personal interpretation based on one's experience of life from our own childhoods up to the very present. The slight difference in whether it was right or wrong is a difference that reflect our own personalities as different individuals.

I think this discussion went very well (as all discussion should be on this and all boards) and I think that both of us have a better understanding of our own view of the world. Thank you for such a "civilized" discussion. I wish this would repeat more often with other DR1ers and myself in the near future.

 

[Argo]

I think we have taken a common ground in the areas that common ground can be taken with such issue.

We agree with everything here, except that last bit on whether it was really wrong or not. I think that part of the issue is up to personal interpretation based on one's experience of life from our own childhoods up to the very present. The slight difference in whether it was right or wrong is a difference that reflect our own personalities as different individuals.

I think this discussion went very well (as all discussion should be on this and all boards) and I think that both of us have a better understanding of our own view of the world. Thank you for such a "civilized" discussion. I wish this would repeat more often with other DR1ers and myself in the near future.

Isn't it obvious? By being of Haitian ancestry, you should be forced to wear a large yellow star and be shipped off to a work camp.

Problem solved

 

[Tony C]

One of the reason that there is crime is political correctness as it relates to crimes.
If you commit a crime you are a criminal! if you are in a country illegally you are a CRIMINAL! The reason doesn't matter. Your actions in the country only counts during sentencing.

BTW The DR has gun control laws that are much stricter than in the US. Maybe that explains why Crime is increasing in the DR yet crime decreased in the US once many states relaxed the "concealed carry" laws.
Crooks are, by their nature, cowards. They are creatures of oppourtunity. They attack the weak and unwary. An un-armed populace is a tempting target.

 

[AZB]

AZB's solution...

Send all Haitians to Uganda, including the ones from Haiti. take over their land and make it a huge dominican republic. haitians have destroyed their country and chewed up the remaining plants and trees. Now they are invading DR. I say, send them to Uganda and let them meet their brothers.

Now about the dominican criminals. If a person is convicted of a crime example: robbing someone, then refuse him brugal for a month and see long he would live without breaking down in pieces. A rapist will be given a year without brugal. I bet he will commit suicide within 3 months.

Ok, jokes aside, lets do what really has worked for many countires. If you steal, cut off a finger ( not a hand like in saudi arabia). You will see how fast the robberies will stop.
If you murder someone, give him public excution. But don't gas him, thats boring, behead him and put it on TV for people to watch (Pay per view). You will see how fast murder rate will drop after 3 public excutions. A rapist get 25 whips and gets rapped by 5 haitians in a jail. lets see how many women he will raped again by the same person.
drug dealers will be given 6 months to change career. Then after that time, they will be rounded up and lined up against the wall and shot in public.

I know it sounds very barbaric but believe me, after a few public excutions, all crime will stop.
AZB

 

[Rick Snyder]

AZB your idea is good but

the only problem I see is the possibility of getting the big fish. If you execute some of the poor or remove body parts then I think only the poor would stop commiting crimes. NOW, if you were to prosecute that fat bald guy for stealing and the people saw this humpty dumpity running around with no fingers, hands, toes, feet etc. Then you would see crime take a very fast nose dive, IMHO. :rambo: :devious:

 

[gringo in dr]

Send all Haitians to Uganda, including the ones from Haiti. take over their land and make it a huge dominican republic. haitians have destroyed their country and chewed up the remaining plants and trees. Now they are invading DR. I say, send them to Uganda and let them meet their brothers.

Now about the dominican criminals. If a person is convicted of a crime example: robbing someone, then refuse him brugal for a month and see long he would live without breaking down in pieces. A rapist will be given a year without brugal. I bet he will commit suicide within 3 months.

Ok, jokes aside, lets do what really has worked for many countires. If you steal, cut off a finger ( not a hand like in saudi arabia). You will see how fast the robberies will stop.
If you murder someone, give him public excution. But don't gas him, thats boring, behead him and put it on TV for people to watch (Pay per view). You will see how fast murder rate will drop after 3 public excutions. A rapist get 25 whips and gets rapped by 5 haitians in a jail. lets see how many women he will raped again by the same person.
drug dealers will be given 6 months to change career. Then after that time, they will be rounded up and lined up against the wall and shot in public.

I know it sounds very barbaric but believe me, after a few public excutions, all crime will stop.
AZB

Since the government is first on the list of excusions, how do you get the government to order the military to start killing themselves?

 

[ERICKXSON]

Hey guys i've seen big improvements in street security by the national Police there's 3 Hummers full of Police with heavy guns patrolling my neighborhood and others around i've been stop twice already for checking this week alone.

 

[gringo in dr]

Hey guys i've seen big improvements in street security by the national Police there's 3 Hummers full of Police with heavy guns patrolling my neighborhood and others around i've been stop twice already for checking this week alone.

If that is what it takes then so be it.