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Dominicans and their ancestry
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Quisqueya said:
Quisqueya,
It looks to me that you are the one that has an issue by not letting dominicans claim what they are.....Why do you care?
But i do have to agree with you on one issue when you stated that dominicans are more afrikanized than Afrikan Americans because most of these Afrikan Americans will knock you out in a heartbeat the mintute you call them afrikan. Go call one of them an african, I double dare you.
and it looks to me that you don't even know much about anything because African Americans are some of the most predjudice people you will ever find especially when they discriminate among each other if you are lighter skin/ darker skin to Haitian purple black.
You will think that the dominican republic is much closer to its African herritage depending on what area and social scale you are exposed to.
If you go around areas populated by Haitians and their descendants which is the coast, Bateyes and close to tourists areas most likely you will see the Afrikaness that you are talking about.
Many Haitians for some reasons once they are in DR soil they want to claim to be dominicans and the sons and daughter of these people are the ones that will also claim that they are Tainos when in fact they are 100% haitians
not even considered dominicans because you don't even register them because in most cases came to the country illegally.
Just look at yourself trying to identify yourself as a dominican by the member name you chose....HOW COME YOU DID NOT CHOOSE A NAME LIKE haitianwoman or haitianqueen INSTEAD OF QUISQUEYA? It took somebody else to tell me that you were HAITIAN not even dominican.
[/QUOTE]
Its funny that dominicans dont know what to do when the see haitians lighter than them..Its hard to accept it because know you the one called dark...by a white lighter haitian.....
http://www.sakapfet.com/tvice/t-vice_main.tpl....[/QUOTE]
Quisqueya,
Are you trying to say that these guys are Haitians?
because if you are you really dont have nothing when the two lightest guys look like brothers resembling more of a dominican than anything else specially with a last name like Raynaldo. Clicked on the bio but no where was I able to find your claim that these guys are trully Haitians.
It is also a fact that most of the white Haitians you will ever find are in the Dominican Republic with no intentions on even returning to Haiti.....These are the only people that will always tell you that they are Haitians unlike many of you that will say that you are dominicans.
Although I don't agree with what Trujillo did,
if he was alive today his main concern today would be that he did not choose to march into Haiti and clean the entire land of haitians. Maybe then that would've stop you from saying "The Dominican Republic is more Afrikanized than African Americans". Then there would be no Haitians coming to the land to settle and then pretend they are dominicans even if their next 10 GENERATIONS are born in DR soil and then you would be able to see the Taino in us more than just "a tad" as you previously said.
To Quisqueya
Quisqueya,
Big deal that there are light-skinned/white Asians. I have seen whiter than this before (blonde hair/blue eyes) in the Dominican Republic. If you want to flash "white" famous Haitians around go ahead but you should be warned that the Dominican media is full of white and mulatto Dominicans.
Quisqueya,
Big deal that there are light-skinned/white Asians. I have seen whiter than this before (blonde hair/blue eyes) in the Dominican Republic. If you want to flash "white" famous Haitians around go ahead but you should be warned that the Dominican media is full of white and mulatto Dominicans.
Just making a point..
DRsScarface,
Its definitely not a big deal but I posted the link just to prove my point we are not all dark poor haitians that ciguayo links presented. See that's the problem most"not all" dominicans have a big misconception of us. Again when dominicans see haitians lighter then its hard to discriminate against us. You can't call us deragatory names. I personally had to let a dominican have it because he kept persisting that I coud not be haitian because of my complexion rather dominican..I took that as insult and gave him a peace of my mind so loud off the el conde that people started noticing..I called him"un mald***prieto.etc.." Just to make him feel stupid and teach him a lesson.
DRMan,
I personally dont care what dominican consider themselves. But when you guys see haitians in a negative manner which usually is most of the time in this forum..I will put each and everyone of you in your places.
Again, most of you guys talk jibberish and have no clue about your own history and knowing anything about haitians but the stereotypical "illegal haitians". And if we listen to Ciguayo you think that every black person walking in the DR is haitian. This guy would consider Pedro Martinez haitian, Johnny Ventura haitian..etc..etc....which is ashame to all black dominicans.
Now, Why in the world would I want to be considered dominican...Are YOU CRAZY...No disrespect but I would never try to pass as dominican I have too too much pride. If you dont know that the WHOLE island was called "Quisqueya" than you shouldn't even be posting any comments rather go read more about ur history.
Again I am not claiming that dominicans dont have taino blood "a splash" but why are you so obsessed with that and out right deny the most obvious..
BTW, what's wrong with being african descendants as well. Again, what's the obsession? Is it because you hate the most dominant part of yourself...See us haitians even if we're snow as white claim to have african blood..We are proud and do not see anything negative with being african descendants. BTW, do you know anything about Africa? AFrica is a continent and have many developed countries...and the africans that I do know are very educated and have class.
Its said to see in this day in age people are confused not because of lack of resources of finding out the TRUTH but rather in denial and afraid of accepting the obvious...
Again, I am could care less what domincan consider themselves..Its your perogative...but when you mention haitians watch your mouth and show some respect...
Also what do you guys think all the non-haitian and non-dominicans view of us both.. when degrading each other just out of ignorance and being a by-product of colonization...Well, if degrading haitians just to make yourself feel more Taino or What ever you consider urself go ahead but the truth can't stay in the dark for too long..
DRsScarface,
Its definitely not a big deal but I posted the link just to prove my point we are not all dark poor haitians that ciguayo links presented. See that's the problem most"not all" dominicans have a big misconception of us. Again when dominicans see haitians lighter then its hard to discriminate against us. You can't call us deragatory names. I personally had to let a dominican have it because he kept persisting that I coud not be haitian because of my complexion rather dominican..I took that as insult and gave him a peace of my mind so loud off the el conde that people started noticing..I called him"un mald***prieto.etc.." Just to make him feel stupid and teach him a lesson.
DRMan,
I personally dont care what dominican consider themselves. But when you guys see haitians in a negative manner which usually is most of the time in this forum..I will put each and everyone of you in your places.
Again, most of you guys talk jibberish and have no clue about your own history and knowing anything about haitians but the stereotypical "illegal haitians". And if we listen to Ciguayo you think that every black person walking in the DR is haitian. This guy would consider Pedro Martinez haitian, Johnny Ventura haitian..etc..etc....which is ashame to all black dominicans.
Now, Why in the world would I want to be considered dominican...Are YOU CRAZY...No disrespect but I would never try to pass as dominican I have too too much pride. If you dont know that the WHOLE island was called "Quisqueya" than you shouldn't even be posting any comments rather go read more about ur history.
Again I am not claiming that dominicans dont have taino blood "a splash" but why are you so obsessed with that and out right deny the most obvious..
BTW, what's wrong with being african descendants as well. Again, what's the obsession? Is it because you hate the most dominant part of yourself...See us haitians even if we're snow as white claim to have african blood..We are proud and do not see anything negative with being african descendants. BTW, do you know anything about Africa? AFrica is a continent and have many developed countries...and the africans that I do know are very educated and have class.
Its said to see in this day in age people are confused not because of lack of resources of finding out the TRUTH but rather in denial and afraid of accepting the obvious...
Again, I am could care less what domincan consider themselves..Its your perogative...but when you mention haitians watch your mouth and show some respect...
Also what do you guys think all the non-haitian and non-dominicans view of us both.. when degrading each other just out of ignorance and being a by-product of colonization...Well, if degrading haitians just to make yourself feel more Taino or What ever you consider urself go ahead but the truth can't stay in the dark for too long..
But i do have to agree with you on one issue when you stated that dominicans are more afrikanized than Afrikan Americans because most of these Afrikan Americans will knock you out in a heartbeat the mintute you call them afrikan. Go call one of them an african, I double dare you.
and it looks to me that you don't even know much about anything because African Americans are some of the most predjudice people you will ever find especially when they discriminate among each other if you are lighter skin/ darker skin to Haitian purple black.
Listen, racism existed everywhere and people will discriminate among each other. Most dominicans that migrate to the USA usually move to a poor neighborhood and will find alot of ignorant people. When african american see a bunch of black/mulatto spanish speaking people moving into their area playing loud music all night and having cockfight in basement buildings what do you expect going to happen. Its funny to see a domincian from the diaspora complain about discrimination when in their own country the discriminat against darker dominicans and poor haitians. How does it feel? Now, you're the poor black/mulatto immigrant who speak a foreign language looking for a better life for your family....its not easy....
You will think that the dominican republic is much closer to its African herritage depending on what area and social scale you are exposed to.
If you go around areas populated by Haitians and their descendants which is the coast, Bateyes and close to tourists areas most likely you will see the Afrikaness that you are talking about.
Again stop blaming haitans for dominicans africanization(scapegoat). Domincans food, music..etc.etc are strongly linked to africa than african americans..
Just look at yourself trying to identify yourself as a dominican by the member name you chose....HOW COME YOU DID NOT CHOOSE A NAME LIKE haitianwoman or haitianqueen INSTEAD OF QUISQUEYA? It took somebody else to tell me that you were HAITIAN not even dominican.
I never thought I had to show my cedula b4 posting...My name is Quisqueya because that's the school I went to in HAITI..Do you know anything about the island?
Quisqueya,
Are you trying to say that these guys are Haitians?
because if you are you really dont have nothing when the two lightest guys look like brothers resembling more of a dominican than anything else specially with a last name like Raynaldo. Clicked on the bio but no where was I able to find your claim that these guys are trully Haitians.
U just prove my point..You dont have a clue about haitians but your stereotypical "illegal haitians".. You're doing the same thing that domincan did to me..saying I rersemble dominicans..PLEASE!!!! and they are not even the white like some other haitians... Again your idea of who is haitian is ridiculous...
Although I don't agree with what Trujillo did,
if he was alive today his main concern today would be that he did not choose to march into Haiti and clean the entire land of haitians. Maybe then that would've stop you from saying "The Dominican Republic is more Afrikanized than African Americans". Then there would be no Haitians coming to the land to settle and then pretend they are dominicans even if their next 10 GENERATIONS are born in DR soil and then you would be able to see the Taino in us more than just "a tad" as you previously said.
Even your Trujillo had haitian blood hated his african features and powdered himself . ONly if Miss Key 'blanqueadora" was around then he would've made it the National product..
and it looks to me that you don't even know much about anything because African Americans are some of the most predjudice people you will ever find especially when they discriminate among each other if you are lighter skin/ darker skin to Haitian purple black.
Listen, racism existed everywhere and people will discriminate among each other. Most dominicans that migrate to the USA usually move to a poor neighborhood and will find alot of ignorant people. When african american see a bunch of black/mulatto spanish speaking people moving into their area playing loud music all night and having cockfight in basement buildings what do you expect going to happen. Its funny to see a domincian from the diaspora complain about discrimination when in their own country the discriminat against darker dominicans and poor haitians. How does it feel? Now, you're the poor black/mulatto immigrant who speak a foreign language looking for a better life for your family....its not easy....
You will think that the dominican republic is much closer to its African herritage depending on what area and social scale you are exposed to.
If you go around areas populated by Haitians and their descendants which is the coast, Bateyes and close to tourists areas most likely you will see the Afrikaness that you are talking about.
Again stop blaming haitans for dominicans africanization(scapegoat). Domincans food, music..etc.etc are strongly linked to africa than african americans..
Just look at yourself trying to identify yourself as a dominican by the member name you chose....HOW COME YOU DID NOT CHOOSE A NAME LIKE haitianwoman or haitianqueen INSTEAD OF QUISQUEYA? It took somebody else to tell me that you were HAITIAN not even dominican.
I never thought I had to show my cedula b4 posting...My name is Quisqueya because that's the school I went to in HAITI..Do you know anything about the island?
Quisqueya,
Are you trying to say that these guys are Haitians?
because if you are you really dont have nothing when the two lightest guys look like brothers resembling more of a dominican than anything else specially with a last name like Raynaldo. Clicked on the bio but no where was I able to find your claim that these guys are trully Haitians.
U just prove my point..You dont have a clue about haitians but your stereotypical "illegal haitians".. You're doing the same thing that domincan did to me..saying I rersemble dominicans..PLEASE!!!! and they are not even the white like some other haitians... Again your idea of who is haitian is ridiculous...
Although I don't agree with what Trujillo did,
if he was alive today his main concern today would be that he did not choose to march into Haiti and clean the entire land of haitians. Maybe then that would've stop you from saying "The Dominican Republic is more Afrikanized than African Americans". Then there would be no Haitians coming to the land to settle and then pretend they are dominicans even if their next 10 GENERATIONS are born in DR soil and then you would be able to see the Taino in us more than just "a tad" as you previously said.
Even your Trujillo had haitian blood hated his african features and powdered himself . ONly if Miss Key 'blanqueadora" was around then he would've made it the National product..
xamaicano said:
RACIAL AND ETHNIC GROUPS
Ethnic Heritage
The island's indigenous inhabitants were mainly Taino Indians, an Arawak-speaking group, and a small settlement of carib Indians around the Bahia de Samana. These indians, estimated to number perhaps 1 million at the time of their initial contact with Europeans, all of whom had been killed or died by the 1550's as a result of harsh spanish treatment. The Tainos were especially ill-treated.
The importation of African slaves began in 1503. By the nineteenth century, the population was roughly 150,000: 40,000 were spanish descent,40,000 were black slaves, and the remainder were either freed blacks or mulattoes. In the mid-1990's, approximately 10% of the population was white and 15 percent black; the remainder were mulattoes-- 75 percent(THE PERCENTAGE OF DOMINICO-HAITIANS OR HAITIANS ARE NOT INCLUDED). Since then the percentage of whites has been slowly decreasing and that of mulattoes increasing; the black percentage has remained almost about the same. The figures about ethnic ration and its changing composition are a SENSITIVE Dominican issue because many elite and upper-class whites are anti-african(blacks and mulattoes) and seek to claim a higher, constant "white" figure. Many mulattoes, however, claim a larger percentage for themselves at the same time that many others have difficulty acknowledging their African roots.
Contemporary Dominican society and culture are primarily spanish in origin. At the same time, much of popular culture reflects many African influences. Taino influence is limited to cultigens, such as Maize or Corn, and a few vocabulary words, such as huracan(hurricane) and hamaca(hammock). The African influence in society was officially suppressed and ignored by the Trujillo regime(1930_1961) and then by Balaguer until the 1980s. However, certain religious brotherhoods with significant black membership have incorporated some afro-american elements. Observers also have noted the presence of African influence in popular dance and music(see Culture, this ch.)
There has long been a preference in Dominican society for light skin, straight hair, and "white" racial features. Blackness in itself, however, does not necessarily restrict a person to a lower status position. Upward mobility is possible for the dark-skinned person who manages to acquire educatiohn or wealth. During the era of Trujillo, joining the military became a major means of upward mobility, especially for dark and light skinned Dominicans-the white elite would not permit its sons to join). Social characteristics focusing on family background, education, and economic standing are, in fact, more prominent means of identifying and classifying individuals. Darker-skinned persons are concentrated in the east, the south, and the far west near the Haitian border. The population of the Cibao, especially in the countryside, consists mainly of whites or mulattoes.
Dominicans traditionally prefer to think of themselves as descendants of the island's indians and the spanish, ignoring their African heritage. Thus, phenotypical African characteristics, such as dark skin pigmentation, are disparaged. Trujillo, a light-skinned mulatto who claimed that he was "white" (French and Spanish), instituted as official policy that dominicans were racially white, culturally spanish, and religiouly Roman Catholic. Balaguer continued this policy until the 1980s when he openly recognized African cultural and social influences. He made the change because, first he followed two opposition party governments, those of presidents Guzman(1978-82) and Jorge Blanco (1982-86), who had officially recognized the country's African roots. Second, he was appealing for votes as he prepared for his reelection campaign in 1986. Because of Trujillo's and then Balaguers racial conditioning, emigrants and visitors to the United States are often shocked to discover that they are viewed as "black". However, they and many back home welcomed the civil rights and black pride movements in NOrth America in the 1960s and 1970s. Those returning brought a new level of racila consciousness to the republic because they had experienced both racial and prejudice and the black pride movement. The returning emigrants who broughtt back Afrom hairstyles and a variety of other Afro-Nort Americanisms received mixed reatios from their fellow dominican, however.
Nalowhs here are a few books for you to read..there goes your proof i hope you learn
see i'm not making this up.......and i am not gonna send you any internet information because most are wrong anyway.....Here are some text books writting by scientist and FEDERAL RESEARCH DIVISION LIBRARY OF CONGRESS and other groups of people(oh and i'm not screaming so calm down)
Robert L. Worden
chief
Federal Research Division
Library of Congress
Econmist Intelligence unit. Country Report, 3rd Quarter 1997: cuba dominican rep. haiti puerto rico ect....
Crassweller, Robert. Trujillo: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF A CARIBBEAN DICTATOR
GUERRERO, MIGUEL. El golpe de estado. Historia dl derrocamiento de Juan Bosch..Santo Domingo
HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH.(you guys really need to read this)Human Rights watch report from New york: in 1998 whoa
and ect..............
uups i gotta go but if anybody is interested to learn(who is not racist of course) about there culture ask me some question maybe we could all learn from each other.....
Threads like these always go on for so long becuase so many people have strong opinions on the issue .Threads like these usually start up when someone(usually a foreigner,but not always) says something that many Dominicans dont agree with( so many times about race) .These type of discussions should be avoided becuase everyone knows that once they start ,they dont stop (or until the thread is shut down or people agree on something,which on this issue is rare).
There are many blacks in the DRxamaicano said:
Haiti has been supplying DR with blacks for years.
And that gives them the right to say that they are dominicans.
What really gets to me is that you then have people like QUISQUEYA who is just using our Taino Country's name for her DR1 name to try and tell us that we have nothing more than just a tad of the taino race and that we are more africanized than African Americans which i greed with her on that note just depending where there are Haitian roots.
In a place where more than one quarter of the people are legal Haitians that are now calling DR home, and that is not even counting the other 2 million that are illegal and there descendants that are not registered when born just because of fear to deportation but yet you see them in the streets of Sosua
having more and more kids.
Where are you getting this sources??
First of all, I think Quisqueya is wrong for saying we even have a tad of Taino blood in our genes...Second, Dominicans And American census show that there is almost about 1 million illegal haitians,, and the legal hatians that are dominican citizen fall just under 30,000. The fact of the matter is that Dominicans have european and african in there blood...Our culture is Mainly Spanish and African with a lil bit of Taino influence but DNA testing show we have no taino genes in us.... Sure i could find out some source for you on how "supposely" we have Taino genes in fact i could send you about 3 source right now...I could also send you sources that says Jamaicans have no white in them and source telling you that Chinese people have black in them....Listen the point is that you could never judge a book by its cover nor Judge a author by your personal feelings... Balaguer has writting books on Hispanidad (where nalowhs and a lott of dominicans get there information) but one Can not trust someone like Balaguer on race or Trujillo....
and anothere thing ....Did you know that Trujillo's mom was an exslave???
To Nalowh the whole haitians killing dominicans in Santiago before living is a big lie or you got some weird sources...And now i'm starting to believe that your source are not even from Dominican Rep...Maybe most of the things you believe are writting in this country...Even some profesor in Dominican Rep. and some schools have acknowledge the fact that most of us are african Descend (Mulattoes and blacks)...However, Trujillo's preachings still echoes in many dominicans home till this day.......and i would like to add one more thing
After the haitian massacre that trujillo's army accomplish to do,,,our population at that time was still 70%mulatoes 12% black (pure dominicans with no haitians ancestry) and another thing how do you thing our population got to be so Mulattoes?? because of the legacy of slavery in the dominican republic side.....Not because haitians raped our women.......And if dominicans are not black Than Gregorio Luperon had to be a haitian because he was pure black....And Sammy Sosa has to be haitian Because his pure black ....And Alfonso Soriano has to be haitian because he is pure black.....And Romeo From the Steve harvy show has to be haitian because he is pure black.....And David Ortis,,,Batista,,,,,,,,ect........The fact of the matter is the Dominicans not all but most use haitians to justify there blackness...And that's my whole arguments....If there is a Doctor that Genuinly finds a few dominicans with taino Genes,,,, than yeah some of us are mestizo but come on...I have spokend personaly with people who do country studies all over the world and they have not found anything in cuba or dominican rep to have taino genes so on that note
peace out
Mr_DR said:
First of all, I think Quisqueya is wrong for saying we even have a tad of Taino blood in our genes...Second, Dominicans And American census show that there is almost about 1 million illegal haitians,, and the legal hatians that are dominican citizen fall just under 30,000. The fact of the matter is that Dominicans have european and african in there blood...Our culture is Mainly Spanish and African with a lil bit of Taino influence but DNA testing show we have no taino genes in us.... Sure i could find out some source for you on how "supposely" we have Taino genes in fact i could send you about 3 source right now...I could also send you sources that says Jamaicans have no white in them and source telling you that Chinese people have black in them....Listen the point is that you could never judge a book by its cover nor Judge a author by your personal feelings... Balaguer has writting books on Hispanidad (where nalowhs and a lott of dominicans get there information) but one Can not trust someone like Balaguer on race or Trujillo....
and anothere thing ....Did you know that Trujillo's mom was an exslave???
To Nalowh the whole haitians killing dominicans in Santiago before living is a big lie or you got some weird sources...And now i'm starting to believe that your source are not even from Dominican Rep...Maybe most of the things you believe are writting in this country...Even some profesor in Dominican Rep. and some schools have acknowledge the fact that most of us are african Descend (Mulattoes and blacks)...However, Trujillo's preachings still echoes in many dominicans home till this day.......and i would like to add one more thing
After the haitian massacre that trujillo's army accomplish to do,,,our population at that time was still 70%mulatoes 12% black (pure dominicans with no haitians ancestry) and another thing how do you thing our population got to be so Mulattoes?? because of the legacy of slavery in the dominican republic side.....Not because haitians raped our women.......And if dominicans are not black Than Gregorio Luperon had to be a haitian because he was pure black....And Sammy Sosa has to be haitian Because his pure black ....And Alfonso Soriano has to be haitian because he is pure black.....And Romeo From the Steve harvy show has to be haitian because he is pure black.....And David Ortis,,,Batista,,,,,,,,ect........The fact of the matter is the Dominicans not all but most use haitians to justify there blackness...And that's my whole arguments....If there is a Doctor that Genuinly finds a few dominicans with taino Genes,,,, than yeah some of us are mestizo but come on...I have spokend personaly with people who do country studies all over the world and they have not found anything in cuba or dominican rep to have taino genes so on that note
peace outListen, racism existed everywhere and people will discriminate among each other. Most dominicans that migrate to the USA usually move to a poor neighborhood and will find alot of ignorant people. When african american see a bunch of black/mulatto spanish speaking people moving into their area playing loud music all night and having cockfight in basement buildings what do you expect going to happen. Its funny to see a domincian from the diaspora complain about discrimination when in their own country the discriminat against darker dominicans and poor haitians. How does it feel? Now, you're the poor black/mulatto immigrant who speak a foreign language looking for a better life for your family....its not easy....
again you proved to me that you are lacking knowledge by making ridiculous comparissons.
like we dominican are the only ones that listen to loud music.
and having cocks fights is much more acceptable and humane than organizing pitbulls dogs fights in your basement which is the only reason most African American have these dogs for.
Again stop blaming haitans for dominicans africanization(scapegoat). Domincans food, music..etc.etc are strongly linked to africa than african americans..
Yes, I am gonna stop using it because according to you, there are no Hatians in the DR, My aunt did not ever merried a haitian and had twelve kids with him only to find out he had 30 more kids with other women. My aunt's grand kids does not totals to 40 so far and not counting the fact that she will soon be a great grandmother. Haitians never enter the DR illegally, They are not brought to cut sugarcane by the mass and later escape and stay in the country illegally right before their contract is expired in which they are to return back home. There are not dominicans and haitians making money illegally crossing Haitians into this country. There are no constraction workers from Haiti. The 3 workers I hired to help me shovel some gravels were not haiti but yet they could barely speak spanish. There are no Hatians or descendants in places like Dajabon, Elia Pinas, Azua and many other places especially that borders both countries. The bar tenders, the cooks and the maids at the Hotel that I was staying lied to me when they told me they were Haitians because it was not noticible on their accents and according to you the DR is free of any Haitian's herritage contributions in the country.
never thought I had to show my cedula b4 posting...My name is Quisqueya because that's the school I went to in HAITI..Do you know anything about the island?
Come on,
you are in a Quisqueya forum, Is gonna talk crap about it's people and then when asked why the name you are gonna come up with a lame excuse like that?
you were born in Haiti as well but i don't see you picking out a name associated to your country. Ok the school was name from the obsession of some christian missionaries with the QUISQUEYA NAME. But what is your excuse? IS IT AN OBSESSION AS WELL? I BET YOU EVEN NAMED ONE OF YOUR KIDS LIKE THAT.
U just prove my point..You dont have a clue about haitians but your stereotypical "illegal haitians".. You're doing the same thing that domincan did to me..saying I rersemble dominicans..PLEASE!!!! and they are not even the white like some other haitians... Again your idea of who is haitian is ridiculous...
TO ME YOU PROVED NOTHING, BUT I WILL LET YOU PROVE ME WRONG BY DIRECTING ME TO A LINK THAT WILL CONVINCE ME THAT THESE GUYS ARE 100% HAITIANS and while you are at it why don't you enrich my horizons about Hatians? Because all that I can tell you is that Haitians have the most afrikan influence in the caribbean, many practive voodoo, there are some catholics, about 95% are the product of sons and daughters of the first slaves brought to the island to work for the french therefore speak a potoi french, 5% of the population is mulatto/white, are very smart people and mourn when a baby is burn and celebrate when a person dies.
Even your Trujillo had haitian blood hated his african features and powdered himself . ONly if Miss Key 'blanqueadora" was around then he would've made it the National product..[/QUOTE]
YOU JUST CONTRADICTED YOURSELF,
EARLIER YOU STATED THAT THERE ISN'T ANY HAITIAN INFLUENCE IN THE DR BUT NOW YOUR SAYING THAT TRUJILLO WAS PART HAITIAN.
I AM NOT GOING TO DISAGREE WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU COULD BE RIGHT.
JUST LIKE PENA GOMEZ ALSO DENIED BEING HAITIAN.
YOU JUST NEED TO STOP CONFUSING YOURSELF AND LEARN HOW TO STAND ON SOLID GROUND AND OPEN YOUR EYES.
Also I need you to enlight me about our food.
I for sure did not know that we learned how to eat plantains because our afrikaness when Cristopher Columbus was the one tha introduced that and many other starch to the country.
Yuca and corn has always been a Taino food as well as dried cod( Bacalao) and dried meat. I was just talking to a German lady and we were talking about food and she was telling me how much their food resembles our food but i did not go around telling her that is because the latinoness in the germans. And also tell me how come our dialect is not made up signicantly of many afrikan words vs the Taino?
Bottom line is that you don't like to accept the fact that Haitians have being coming to this country in masses for years and will continue to do so legally and illegally, they will have children, and great grand kids, especially since they like having so many kids; therefore overpowering and making it hard for people to see that some of us true deep rooted dominicans with taino genes are still standing. Am i saying that sons, daughters and generations of these Haitians are not concidered dominicans? No, they are the ones that will be saying that they are dominicans themselves and will also continue carying that Afrikaness that you are talking about, but will then deny even beeing Haitians or part Haitians just as my aunt's children and grand children will deny it themselves.
again you proved to me that you are lacking knowledge by making ridiculous comparissons.
like we dominican are the only ones that listen to loud music.
and having cocks fights is much more acceptable and humane than organizing pitbulls dogs fights in your basement which is the only reason most African American have these dogs for.
Again stop blaming haitans for dominicans africanization(scapegoat). Domincans food, music..etc.etc are strongly linked to africa than african americans..
Yes, I am gonna stop using it because according to you, there are no Hatians in the DR, My aunt did not ever merried a haitian and had twelve kids with him only to find out he had 30 more kids with other women. My aunt's grand kids does not totals to 40 so far and not counting the fact that she will soon be a great grandmother. Haitians never enter the DR illegally, They are not brought to cut sugarcane by the mass and later escape and stay in the country illegally right before their contract is expired in which they are to return back home. There are not dominicans and haitians making money illegally crossing Haitians into this country. There are no constraction workers from Haiti. The 3 workers I hired to help me shovel some gravels were not haiti but yet they could barely speak spanish. There are no Hatians or descendants in places like Dajabon, Elia Pinas, Azua and many other places especially that borders both countries. The bar tenders, the cooks and the maids at the Hotel that I was staying lied to me when they told me they were Haitians because it was not noticible on their accents and according to you the DR is free of any Haitian's herritage contributions in the country.
never thought I had to show my cedula b4 posting...My name is Quisqueya because that's the school I went to in HAITI..Do you know anything about the island?
Come on,
you are in a Quisqueya forum, Is gonna talk crap about it's people and then when asked why the name you are gonna come up with a lame excuse like that?
you were born in Haiti as well but i don't see you picking out a name associated to your country. Ok the school was name from the obsession of some christian missionaries with the QUISQUEYA NAME. But what is your excuse? IS IT AN OBSESSION AS WELL? I BET YOU EVEN NAMED ONE OF YOUR KIDS LIKE THAT.
U just prove my point..You dont have a clue about haitians but your stereotypical "illegal haitians".. You're doing the same thing that domincan did to me..saying I rersemble dominicans..PLEASE!!!! and they are not even the white like some other haitians... Again your idea of who is haitian is ridiculous...
TO ME YOU PROVED NOTHING, BUT I WILL LET YOU PROVE ME WRONG BY DIRECTING ME TO A LINK THAT WILL CONVINCE ME THAT THESE GUYS ARE 100% HAITIANS and while you are at it why don't you enrich my horizons about Hatians? Because all that I can tell you is that Haitians have the most afrikan influence in the caribbean, many practive voodoo, there are some catholics, about 95% are the product of sons and daughters of the first slaves brought to the island to work for the french therefore speak a potoi french, 5% of the population is mulatto/white, are very smart people and mourn when a baby is burn and celebrate when a person dies.
Even your Trujillo had haitian blood hated his african features and powdered himself . ONly if Miss Key 'blanqueadora" was around then he would've made it the National product..[/QUOTE]
YOU JUST CONTRADICTED YOURSELF,
EARLIER YOU STATED THAT THERE ISN'T ANY HAITIAN INFLUENCE IN THE DR BUT NOW YOUR SAYING THAT TRUJILLO WAS PART HAITIAN.
I AM NOT GOING TO DISAGREE WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU COULD BE RIGHT.
JUST LIKE PENA GOMEZ ALSO DENIED BEING HAITIAN.
YOU JUST NEED TO STOP CONFUSING YOURSELF AND LEARN HOW TO STAND ON SOLID GROUND AND OPEN YOUR EYES.
Also I need you to enlight me about our food.
I for sure did not know that we learned how to eat plantains because our afrikaness when Cristopher Columbus was the one tha introduced that and many other starch to the country.
Yuca and corn has always been a Taino food as well as dried cod( Bacalao) and dried meat. I was just talking to a German lady and we were talking about food and she was telling me how much their food resembles our food but i did not go around telling her that is because the latinoness in the germans. And also tell me how come our dialect is not made up signicantly of many afrikan words vs the Taino?
Bottom line is that you don't like to accept the fact that Haitians have being coming to this country in masses for years and will continue to do so legally and illegally, they will have children, and great grand kids, especially since they like having so many kids; therefore overpowering and making it hard for people to see that some of us true deep rooted dominicans with taino genes are still standing. Am i saying that sons, daughters and generations of these Haitians are not concidered dominicans? No, they are the ones that will be saying that they are dominicans themselves and will also continue carying that Afrikaness that you are talking about, but will then deny even beeing Haitians or part Haitians just as my aunt's children and grand children will deny it themselves.
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First of all i think you are way off, that sound like a 30 year old census when the entire population was barely reaching 4 millions. I don't know how come you never post your sources, but let say that let just say that it is 1 million and 30,000 illegal. do you know that just that right there makes them close to 15% of the entire population and that is not even taking in considerations the fact that is only counting imigrants that were only born in Haiti....Matos said:First of all, I think Quisqueya is wrong for saying we even have a tad of Taino blood in our genes...Second, Dominicans And American census show that there is almost about 1 million illegal haitians,, and the legal hatians that are dominican citizen fall just under 30,000. The fact of the matter is that Dominicans have european and african in there blood...Our culture is Mainly Spanish and African with a lil bit of Taino influence but DNA testing show we have no taino genes in us.... Sure i could find out some source for you on how "supposely" we have Taino genes in fact i could send you about 3 source right now...I could also send you sources that says Jamaicans have no white in them and source telling you that Chinese people have black in them....Listen the point is that you could never judge a book by its cover nor Judge a author by your personal feelings... Balaguer has writting books on Hispanidad (where nalowhs and a lott of dominicans get there information) but one Can not trust someone like Balaguer on race or Trujillo....
and anothere thing ....Did you know that Trujillo's mom was an exslave???
After the haitian massacre that trujillo's army accomplish to do,,,our population at that time was still 70%mulatoes 12% black (pure dominicans with no haitians ancestry) and another thing how do you thing our population got to be so Mulattoes?? because of the legacy of slavery in the dominican republic side.....Not because haitians raped our women.......And if dominicans are not black Than Gregorio Luperon had to be a haitian because he was pure black....And Sammy Sosa has to be haitian Because his pure black ....And Alfonso Soriano has to be haitian because he is pure black.....And Romeo From the Steve harvy show has to be haitian because he is pure black.....And David Ortis,,,Batista,,,,,,,,ect........The fact of the matter is the Dominicans not all but most use haitians to justify there blackness...And that's my whole arguments....If there is a Doctor that Genuinly finds a few dominicans with taino Genes,,,, than yeah some of us are mestizo but come on...I have spokend personaly with people who do country studies all over the world and they have not found anything in cuba or dominican rep to have taino genes so on that note
According to you there aren't any Dominican people, product of generations from haitians imigrants in DR since hundreds of years back.
Why do you think that Trujillo had more than 25,000 Haitians killed in 1937 in the bordering towns inside the DR? It was because the Haitian presence was so strong at that time that it was very obvious especially when the DR population at that time was not even 500,000 and i have to remind you that that was already close to a 10% of the population and these Haitians were here during the Trujillo era which you would have to be crazy to migrate to a country ruled by such caudillo.
So, if these people were holding close to 10% during such hard time what do you think they would have contributed to the population since 1937 especially when Haiti gets poorer, their population has swelled and conditions in the DR is way much better now and without a Trujillo to persecute them?
Yes, I am gonna stop using it because according to you, there are no Hatians in the DR, My aunt did not ever merried a haitian and had twelve kids with him only to find out he had 30 more kids with other women. My aunt's grand kids does not totals to 40 so far and not counting the fact that she will soon be a great grandmother. Haitians never enter the DR illegally, They are not brought to cut sugarcane by the mass and later escape and stay in the country illegally right before their contract is expired in which they are to return back home. There are not dominicans and haitians making money illegally crossing Haitians into this country. There are no constraction workers from Haiti. The 3 workers I hired to help me shovel some gravels were not haiti but yet they could barely speak spanish. There are no Hatians or descendants in places like Dajabon, Elia Pinas, Azua and many other places especially that borders both countries. The bar tenders, the cooks and the maids at the Hotel that I was staying lied to me when they told me they were Haitians because it was not noticible on their accents and according to you the DR is free of any Haitian's herritage contributions in the country.
When did I say that there wasn't any haitians in the DR. I clearly stated that the african element in the dominican society has nothing to do with Haitians migrating to the DR. You are insinuating that haitians are the reasons why domincans are influenced by the african culture which is definitely not true.. Again, I am not hear to convince you are african descendant..If you think your descendants of Tainos more power to you. All, I want you to realize is that you can't disrespect haitians and stereotype us. Usted falta respeto. Your trying to degrade my people in order to make urself feel superior. But when confronted with haitians like myself, who does not fit the stereotype you(dominicans) tend to look perplex.
See my point is, dominicans only can talk jibberish to black haitians and look like fools when confronted with lighter skin/white haitians. We are offended when a dominican has the nerve to say where not haitian. I am proud to be haitian as much as you are proud to be dominican. We come in all different colors and have money to spend just because we can. Again, I am replying in this forum because you guys(some dominicans) are degrading my people and providing mis-information.
In regards, to race and the psyche of the dominican coming to grip with his/her roots(the one they deny) its ur business...I dont care but make sure u watch ur mouth when u mention my peoples.
BTw, dominicans in the USA are having so much kids and leaching off the welfare system. Have you ever drove around Washington Hghts., Newark, Jersey City, Perth Amboy to see how dominicans live. Dominican women are popping kids out of the oven like "hot pockets" and have no education and Eugenio(the father) bailed out and plants seeds again. My point is to stop you from stereotyping because everything u mentioned about haitians in the DR can be applied to dominicans in the US and Puerto Rico..in five more yrs PR will be a small DR..I even talked to dominicans denying their heritage and claiming to be Puerto Rican. Again every stereotype you have towards my people can be applied towards urs.
Come on,
you are in a Quisqueya forum, Is gonna talk crap about it's people and then when asked why the name you are gonna come up with a lame excuse like that?
you were born in Haiti as well but i don't see you picking out a name associated to your country. Ok the school was name from the obsession of some christian missionaries with the QUISQUEYA NAME. But what is your excuse? IS IT AN OBSESSION AS WELL? I BET YOU EVEN NAMED ONE OF YOUR KIDS LIKE THAT.
Again, your showing ur lack of education and how ignorant u r when it comes to Haiti and the DR. Its ironic to see poor dominicans from the diaspora trying to debate about something the know nothing about. Do you know that a dominican with class and old money don't respect you and looks down on you(dominican yorks). Just because u or ur family happen to get an opportunity to make it out of DR doesn't mean ur part of "La Sociedad". BTW, dominicans with old cash with class would be disappointed if their kids married a domincan from the diaspora. I think you should be focusing on equal rights for the poor dominicans instead of posting something u know nothing about.
Believe me even the remesas sent to you wouldn't be enough for you to go to "Quisqueya". I think u should stop posting because its obvious u have know idea about the history of island. Well, if they r missionaries then I guess they are the same ones who opened all the christian schools in the DR as well.
Listen why dont u ask Nals to educated you at least he knows what his talking about although he manipulates the context of history to be more sypmpathetic towards dominicans. Nals, these are the people who are representing dominicans abroad and then are either deported or come back making crime in the DR skyrocket. Only if they knew the truth of how Real domincans(old money) feel about them.
When did I say that there wasn't any haitians in the DR. I clearly stated that the african element in the dominican society has nothing to do with Haitians migrating to the DR. You are insinuating that haitians are the reasons why domincans are influenced by the african culture which is definitely not true.. Again, I am not hear to convince you are african descendant..If you think your descendants of Tainos more power to you. All, I want you to realize is that you can't disrespect haitians and stereotype us. Usted falta respeto. Your trying to degrade my people in order to make urself feel superior. But when confronted with haitians like myself, who does not fit the stereotype you(dominicans) tend to look perplex.
See my point is, dominicans only can talk jibberish to black haitians and look like fools when confronted with lighter skin/white haitians. We are offended when a dominican has the nerve to say where not haitian. I am proud to be haitian as much as you are proud to be dominican. We come in all different colors and have money to spend just because we can. Again, I am replying in this forum because you guys(some dominicans) are degrading my people and providing mis-information.
In regards, to race and the psyche of the dominican coming to grip with his/her roots(the one they deny) its ur business...I dont care but make sure u watch ur mouth when u mention my peoples.
BTw, dominicans in the USA are having so much kids and leaching off the welfare system. Have you ever drove around Washington Hghts., Newark, Jersey City, Perth Amboy to see how dominicans live. Dominican women are popping kids out of the oven like "hot pockets" and have no education and Eugenio(the father) bailed out and plants seeds again. My point is to stop you from stereotyping because everything u mentioned about haitians in the DR can be applied to dominicans in the US and Puerto Rico..in five more yrs PR will be a small DR..I even talked to dominicans denying their heritage and claiming to be Puerto Rican. Again every stereotype you have towards my people can be applied towards urs.
Come on,
you are in a Quisqueya forum, Is gonna talk crap about it's people and then when asked why the name you are gonna come up with a lame excuse like that?
you were born in Haiti as well but i don't see you picking out a name associated to your country. Ok the school was name from the obsession of some christian missionaries with the QUISQUEYA NAME. But what is your excuse? IS IT AN OBSESSION AS WELL? I BET YOU EVEN NAMED ONE OF YOUR KIDS LIKE THAT.
Again, your showing ur lack of education and how ignorant u r when it comes to Haiti and the DR. Its ironic to see poor dominicans from the diaspora trying to debate about something the know nothing about. Do you know that a dominican with class and old money don't respect you and looks down on you(dominican yorks). Just because u or ur family happen to get an opportunity to make it out of DR doesn't mean ur part of "La Sociedad". BTW, dominicans with old cash with class would be disappointed if their kids married a domincan from the diaspora. I think you should be focusing on equal rights for the poor dominicans instead of posting something u know nothing about.
Believe me even the remesas sent to you wouldn't be enough for you to go to "Quisqueya". I think u should stop posting because its obvious u have know idea about the history of island. Well, if they r missionaries then I guess they are the same ones who opened all the christian schools in the DR as well.
Listen why dont u ask Nals to educated you at least he knows what his talking about although he manipulates the context of history to be more sypmpathetic towards dominicans. Nals, these are the people who are representing dominicans abroad and then are either deported or come back making crime in the DR skyrocket. Only if they knew the truth of how Real domincans(old money) feel about them.
Quisqueya
Quisqueya, Can you post a picture of you. Quiero ver si en verdad pareces "Dominicana" como te comentaron.
Quisqueya, Can you post a picture of you. Quiero ver si en verdad pareces "Dominicana" como te comentaron.
I have great respect for my African heritage, my great great grandmother was Haitian, she was affectionately called Mamb?, and before she entered into the family, we all used to be light-skinned and blue eyed, and all it took was Mamb?'s African Negroid genes to kink our hair and shade our skin for posterity. Definitely, our African heritage is stronger than the Taino, or even the Caucasian.
Mirador
Mirador
Boyer and Haitian Occupation.
Nals,
Boyer was a genious and wanted to end ALL europeans from meddling on Hispaniola. After the haitians defeated the french in 1804. The french took control of the east side of the island(DR) and maintained control for some time until 1808/1809. The following year the spanish took control again from the french which is the Espanol Boba era. Its was called that because DR was worthless at that point and S. America was where the cash was(gold). During that time Spain neglected its colony and the Spanish creoles(mulattos which is present day dominicans) revolted and had a brief independence(Spanish Haiti) in 1821. That's when Boyer took advantage of the conflict in Santo Domingo by a passive invasion and secured the Spanish part of Hispaniola in 1822 with the consent of the spanish creoles(present day domincans). Occupation of the territory, however, proved unproductive for the Haitians, and ultimately it sparked a Dominican rebellion. See Boyer had a vision for the whole island to prosper but didn't have any resources to produce for the WHOLE island. He tried to make DR into an agricultural state but Spanish creoles where more into cattling. thus, that's when haitian soldiers were repossessing "Spanish creoles" homes and masscred the ones who resisted and all of the other bad things dominicans seem to solely focus on in history. 1844 Juan Pablo Duarte who was a Spanish creole studying aboard took over and formed the independent dominican republic. Around 1861-63 the president of DR Pedro Santana returns the DR to Spanish rule. Which in my opinion was a good move economically speaking Although many dominican scholars would disagree and let the pride get in their way. BTW,we(haitians) would've definitely taken the east side back. . Then in 1864 Spain withdraws its troop by a popular revolt...
Now that's a true (neutral) assessment of what really happened.
BTW, Mr DR this is what a debate should be. You provide ur facts and dates with names. Then you decipher the extreme right(dominican scholar) and the extreme left(haitian scholars) afterwards you dissect the boys up North version(US) which seems to occupy lands because they feel its their given right to put order and sign treaty for the own interest. Last but not least you make your own assessment by the information provided to you. that's when you'll become an "Independent Thinker" ....Lets keep this forum clean and move on please...
Nals,
Boyer was a genious and wanted to end ALL europeans from meddling on Hispaniola. After the haitians defeated the french in 1804. The french took control of the east side of the island(DR) and maintained control for some time until 1808/1809. The following year the spanish took control again from the french which is the Espanol Boba era. Its was called that because DR was worthless at that point and S. America was where the cash was(gold). During that time Spain neglected its colony and the Spanish creoles(mulattos which is present day dominicans) revolted and had a brief independence(Spanish Haiti) in 1821. That's when Boyer took advantage of the conflict in Santo Domingo by a passive invasion and secured the Spanish part of Hispaniola in 1822 with the consent of the spanish creoles(present day domincans). Occupation of the territory, however, proved unproductive for the Haitians, and ultimately it sparked a Dominican rebellion. See Boyer had a vision for the whole island to prosper but didn't have any resources to produce for the WHOLE island. He tried to make DR into an agricultural state but Spanish creoles where more into cattling. thus, that's when haitian soldiers were repossessing "Spanish creoles" homes and masscred the ones who resisted and all of the other bad things dominicans seem to solely focus on in history. 1844 Juan Pablo Duarte who was a Spanish creole studying aboard took over and formed the independent dominican republic. Around 1861-63 the president of DR Pedro Santana returns the DR to Spanish rule. Which in my opinion was a good move economically speaking Although many dominican scholars would disagree and let the pride get in their way. BTW,we(haitians) would've definitely taken the east side back. . Then in 1864 Spain withdraws its troop by a popular revolt...
Now that's a true (neutral) assessment of what really happened.
BTW, Mr DR this is what a debate should be. You provide ur facts and dates with names. Then you decipher the extreme right(dominican scholar) and the extreme left(haitian scholars) afterwards you dissect the boys up North version(US) which seems to occupy lands because they feel its their given right to put order and sign treaty for the own interest. Last but not least you make your own assessment by the information provided to you. that's when you'll become an "Independent Thinker" ....Lets keep this forum clean and move on please...
My Final Post in this Debate that is going NOWHERE!
1. This is going in circles, no good.
2. Matos keeps re-posting the same sources over and over again. For a person who denies over 20 sources that shows all Dominican traits available in the population, it baffles me that he only can find 1 source to back his claim of only African influence in this country.
3. Quisqueya is a Haitian. It's no surprise he has a pro-Haiti agenda, just how Dominicans have a pro-Dominican agenda. Both will never agree, that has been the case since the 22 year occupation up to this day.
4. MR_DR, you made your point well (this goes for everybody else as well), if you did not convinced these folks as of now, then they will not be convinced. Let them think what they want, they think Haiti and DR are the samething. It's obvious they don't know what they are talking about. Afterall, they are basing their arguments on 1 source!
5. FuegoAzul, you are right about the nature of these types of threads. Wow, I'm even surprised how long this one has lasted!
6. Mirador, I hope you also take great pride in your other heritage that was supplied by all the other peoples, who definitely greatly outnumered you 1 Haitian connection. And the strong influence her African lineage had on your family is proof of the 100% african blood that most Haitians are made of.
7. Xamaicano, these types of issues are hardly discussed in Dominican homes, except in those homes where people comes with these foreign ideas that don't apply to Dominican heritage or culture. Of course, those who do implement these ideas get the same circle debates that we see here. It's a clash of cultures.
Final note: It doesn't matter anymore. Even if many Dominicans are 100% african (hard to believe, but whatever) that does not imply a unification with Haiti at all.
Haiti has the worst indicator in every aspect of life outside of Africa! Even Afghanistan has better conditions and this is a 4th world country!
Average life expectancy in the DR is near 70, in Haiti its in the 50s!!!
Per capita income in the DR is 6 and a quarter times more than in Haiti.
The DR economy is the largest in the Caribbean, Haiti's is the smallest and worst of all economies outside of Africa!
DR receives progressive foreign investment, Haiti receives none!
DR is now civilized and in peace, Haiti is still anarchaic and in war!
DR is much better than Haiti, period.
Uniting with the FAILURE that Haiti is, is the equivalent to commiting mass suicide. Of course, many folks will push for this, then once they see what the reality will be of this, they will be the first to regret it, but by that time it will be too late and the DR as we know it will go into extinction. No more vibrant economy in Santo Domingo, no more hotels filled with tourists, no more expats enjoying the life, no more lushly covered mountains (they will use the wood for charcoal, guaranteed), and an exodus of boat people to Puerto Rico that will probably cause mainland USA to drop Puerto Rico from its commonwealth status.
Here are extra (non-Dominican based) sources from where I get my data from (unlike Matos who only get's his data from 1 or 2 sources and then re-post the samething over and over and over again)
Compendium of Social Statistics and Indicators, United Nations, Department of International Economic and Social Affairs
Demographic Yearbook, United Nations, Department of International Economic and Social Affairs
FAO Production Yearbook, United Nations, Food and Agriculture Organization
FAO Trade Yearbook, United Nations, Food and Agriculture Organization
Handbook of International Economic Statistics, U.S. Dept. of State, Central Intelligence Agency
Handbook of International Trade and Development Statistics, United Nations, Conference on Trade and Development
International Trade Statistics Yearbook, United Nations, Dept. of Economic and Social Development
Mineral Industries of Latin America and Canada, U.S. Dept of the Interior, US Geological Survey
Oxford Economic Atlas of the World, Oxford University Press
Population and Vital Statistics Reports, United Nations, Dept. of Economic and Social Information and Policy Analysis
Status of Armed Conflicts, International Institute for Strategic Studies
World Development Report, World Bank
World Fackbook, U.S. Dept. of State, Central Intelligence Agency
World Population Profile, U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Bureau of the Census
World Population Prospects, United Nations, Department of International Economic and Social Affairs
I think Juan Pablo Duarte would have been very dissapointed to see his country beginning to split on the basis of Haiti/African segregation from those Dominicans who are not African based. Maybe the DR will become an aparteid that will encourage whites to come and settle here, again, to put an end to this dilemma.
Hopefully this will not happen, but if these things continue, the old adage will resurface once again, as sad as that may seem.
I always thought we were just Dominicans. I always thought we were just DOMINICANS. I ALWAYS THOUGHT WE WERE JUST DOMINICANS.
1. This is going in circles, no good.
2. Matos keeps re-posting the same sources over and over again. For a person who denies over 20 sources that shows all Dominican traits available in the population, it baffles me that he only can find 1 source to back his claim of only African influence in this country.
3. Quisqueya is a Haitian. It's no surprise he has a pro-Haiti agenda, just how Dominicans have a pro-Dominican agenda. Both will never agree, that has been the case since the 22 year occupation up to this day.
4. MR_DR, you made your point well (this goes for everybody else as well), if you did not convinced these folks as of now, then they will not be convinced. Let them think what they want, they think Haiti and DR are the samething. It's obvious they don't know what they are talking about. Afterall, they are basing their arguments on 1 source!
5. FuegoAzul, you are right about the nature of these types of threads. Wow, I'm even surprised how long this one has lasted!
6. Mirador, I hope you also take great pride in your other heritage that was supplied by all the other peoples, who definitely greatly outnumered you 1 Haitian connection. And the strong influence her African lineage had on your family is proof of the 100% african blood that most Haitians are made of.
7. Xamaicano, these types of issues are hardly discussed in Dominican homes, except in those homes where people comes with these foreign ideas that don't apply to Dominican heritage or culture. Of course, those who do implement these ideas get the same circle debates that we see here. It's a clash of cultures.
Final note: It doesn't matter anymore. Even if many Dominicans are 100% african (hard to believe, but whatever) that does not imply a unification with Haiti at all.
Haiti has the worst indicator in every aspect of life outside of Africa! Even Afghanistan has better conditions and this is a 4th world country!
Average life expectancy in the DR is near 70, in Haiti its in the 50s!!!
Per capita income in the DR is 6 and a quarter times more than in Haiti.
The DR economy is the largest in the Caribbean, Haiti's is the smallest and worst of all economies outside of Africa!
DR receives progressive foreign investment, Haiti receives none!
DR is now civilized and in peace, Haiti is still anarchaic and in war!
DR is much better than Haiti, period.
Uniting with the FAILURE that Haiti is, is the equivalent to commiting mass suicide. Of course, many folks will push for this, then once they see what the reality will be of this, they will be the first to regret it, but by that time it will be too late and the DR as we know it will go into extinction. No more vibrant economy in Santo Domingo, no more hotels filled with tourists, no more expats enjoying the life, no more lushly covered mountains (they will use the wood for charcoal, guaranteed), and an exodus of boat people to Puerto Rico that will probably cause mainland USA to drop Puerto Rico from its commonwealth status.
Here are extra (non-Dominican based) sources from where I get my data from (unlike Matos who only get's his data from 1 or 2 sources and then re-post the samething over and over and over again)
Compendium of Social Statistics and Indicators, United Nations, Department of International Economic and Social Affairs
Demographic Yearbook, United Nations, Department of International Economic and Social Affairs
FAO Production Yearbook, United Nations, Food and Agriculture Organization
FAO Trade Yearbook, United Nations, Food and Agriculture Organization
Handbook of International Economic Statistics, U.S. Dept. of State, Central Intelligence Agency
Handbook of International Trade and Development Statistics, United Nations, Conference on Trade and Development
International Trade Statistics Yearbook, United Nations, Dept. of Economic and Social Development
Mineral Industries of Latin America and Canada, U.S. Dept of the Interior, US Geological Survey
Oxford Economic Atlas of the World, Oxford University Press
Population and Vital Statistics Reports, United Nations, Dept. of Economic and Social Information and Policy Analysis
Status of Armed Conflicts, International Institute for Strategic Studies
World Development Report, World Bank
World Fackbook, U.S. Dept. of State, Central Intelligence Agency
World Population Profile, U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Bureau of the Census
World Population Prospects, United Nations, Department of International Economic and Social Affairs
I think Juan Pablo Duarte would have been very dissapointed to see his country beginning to split on the basis of Haiti/African segregation from those Dominicans who are not African based. Maybe the DR will become an aparteid that will encourage whites to come and settle here, again, to put an end to this dilemma.
Hopefully this will not happen, but if these things continue, the old adage will resurface once again, as sad as that may seem.
I always thought we were just Dominicans. I always thought we were just DOMINICANS. I ALWAYS THOUGHT WE WERE JUST DOMINICANS.
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