German tourism has fallen more than 50%

yogibear

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the british are not going to the dr so much now the airport close to were i live are not flying to the dr because they cannot fill the plane
 

Ken

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Jan 1, 2002
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As it's far for Germans to fly here, and prices rise, it is getting near impossible to offer a competitive AI vacation to them, while the North Americans are a lot closer, and we all know that the Americans have been catching onto the DR in the last 6 or 7 years, filling the void left from the declining Germans.

I would say more than fill the void, Rocky. I think the resorts and local businesses benefit considerably more from tourism now than they did when Germans were coming in very large numbesrs
 
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batich

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I would say more than fill the void, Rocky. I think the resorts and local businesses benefit considerably more from tourism now than they did when Germans were coming in very large numbesrs

In other words , Germans are much more sophisticated, intelligent, experienced, seasoned, smart and more difficult to manipulate and overcharge than "those" who "filled in" now, correct?

Of course, sky rocketed prices are welcome thing for a couple of hundreds of business owners here, but are they good for the population in general, including ex-pats, majority of whom are on fixed pension income?

Tough question I know...
 

Rocky

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In other words , Germans are much more sophisticated, intelligent, experienced, seasoned, smart and more difficult to manipulate and overcharge than "those" who "filled in" now, correct?
Wow.
How did you draw that conclusion from what was written?
 

Ken

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Jan 1, 2002
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In other words , Germans are much more sophisticated, intelligent, experienced, seasoned, smart and more difficult to manipulate and overcharge than "those" who "filled in" now, correct?

No. That is not what I said.
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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What is a good thing for everybody, is that the tourism offering is upgraded in order to attract the tourist with more disposable income.

I do not care if that tourist is German or Martian. Batich, you may just win the prize for the most negative and alarmist poster on DR1.
 
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batich

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Batich, you may just win the prize for the most negative and alarmist poster on DR1.


Maybe.
Or maybe just saw too many games in too many countries that people play to separate others from money.
Mostly on naive and uninformed.

But I appreciate the Prize anyway. Where and when is the reception?
 

Lambada

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I do not care if that tourist is German or Martian. Batich, you may just win the prize for the most negative and alarmist poster on DR1.

If what batich is saying is that certain tourists are prepared to pay over the top and artificially inflate the prices then I would disagree that this is being alarmist. Paying a higher price for a much improved product is one thing. There is a difference between 1)wanting & paying for 'better', 2)being a cheapie cheapie & 3) not being prepared to pay a stupid price. Paying a higher price for same old same old merely signals to a whole lot of people the suckerability of certain tourists. This can lead to the conclusion that said tourists are stupid and thus 'fair game' for scams.
 

Ken

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Jan 1, 2002
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I worked for Hotel Gran Bahia in Samana for a number of years, starting when the hotel ope The hotel was built with the idea of attracting very wealthy tourists from any where in the world. When the hotel opened, it figured it would need 1/3 occupancy to break even, given the rates it was charging.

The owners were not willing to take the time necessary to develop that market and attract tourists from the destinations that they are accustomed to going to, so they contracted with Accor a big French company with properties all over the world, that planned to market it as at least a 4 star hotel, 5 if the owners did the additional upgrading that Accor requested. Accor only had 2 years, and before their plans had the chance to come to fruition, the owners signed with another company, one that promised to immediately fill the hotel.

Which that company did by signing contracts with a number of tour operators, many of them bringing German clients. To get those clients, the wealthy Germans go to Bavaro and other resorts on south coast, not to the north coast, the hotel went all-inclusive with rock bottom prices, so low that it was necessary to have about 100% occupancy to even break even.

Because prices were so low, service was bare minimum and major maintenance was non-existent. And the businesses in town benefitted not at all.

Having had that experience, I will continue to believe that a more upscale type of tourist, one that will pay more and spend more, is good for tourism. Even though being on a fixed income, it does make it more difficult.

I can also recall arriving in Samana in 1986, a much different Samana than exists today. Yes, there is much to be said for the way things were, and certainly a dollar went much further than it does today. But, we bought our meat in the farmers market, to go to Santo Domingo met a long ride on a very crowded yellow school bus, to get a decent dentist we had to go to San Francisco de Macoris and for doctors for anything but the common cold, to Santo Domingo. The closest supermarket was San Francisco de Macoris, more than 2 hours away, and the selection of products available was much, much smaller than we have today.

To get progress, you do pay a price. And since I can't do anything to turn back the clock, even if I wanted to, or change the direction that tourism is taking in the DR, rants by Batich and others just go in one ear and out the other.

Besides, I think Batich is kicking the wrong horse. I think the merchants, or those that have competition, are keeping prices low in order to be competitive. But the taxes, customs fees, etc., that the government is collecting have been increasing steadily. But I can't do anything about that, either.
 
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batich

Guest
I worked for Hotel Gran Bahia in Samana for a number of years, starting when the hotel ope The hotel was built with the idea of attracting very wealthy tourists from any where in the world. When the hotel opened, it figured it would need 1/3 occupancy to break even, given the rates it was charging.

The owners were not willing to take the time necessary to develop that market and attract tourists from the destinations that they are accustomed to going to, so they contracted with Accor a big French company with properties all over the world, that planned to market it as at least a 4 star hotel, 5 if the owners did the additional upgrading that Accor requested. Accor only had 2 years, and before their plans had the chance to come to fruition, the owners signed with another company, one that promised to immediately fill the hotel.

Which that company did by signing contracts with a number of tour operators, many of them bringing German clients. To get those clients, the wealthy Germans go to Bavaro and other resorts on south coast, not to the north coast, the hotel went all-inclusive with rock bottom prices, so low that it was necessary to have about 100% occupancy to even break even.

Because prices were so low, service was bare minimum and major maintenance was non-existent. And the businesses in town benefitted not at all.

Having had that experience, I will continue to believe that a more upscale type of tourist, one that will pay more and spend more, is good for tourism. Even though being on a fixed income, it does make it more difficult.

I can also recall arriving in Samana in 1986, a much different Samana than exists today. Yes, there is much to be said for the way things were, and certainly a dollar went much further than it does today. But, we bought our meat in the farmers market, to go to Santo Domingo met a long ride on a very crowded yellow school bus, to get a decent dentist we had to go to San Francisco de Macoris and for doctors for anything but the common cold, to Santo Domingo. The closest supermarket was San Francisco de Macoris, more than 2 hours away, and the selection of products available was much, much smaller than we have today.

To get progress, you do pay a price. And since I can't do anything to turn back the clock, even if I wanted to, or change the direction that tourism is taking in the DR, rants by Batich and others just go in one ear and out the other.

Besides, I think Batich is kicking the wrong horse. I think the merchants, or those that have competition, are keeping prices low in order to be competitive. But the taxes, customs fees, etc., that the government is collecting have been increasing steadily. But I can't do anything about that, either.


I am true sorry that my words sounded rude! I all respect hard workers like you and like the majority of the DR1 members.

I only expressed surprise with your statement that departure of Germans and arrival of americans is a good thing.

Germans are well known and respected ever as the most rational nation. Excellently ordered and organized. Who calculate everything perfectly before leaping. And the fact that they lost interest in DR as their business and touristic destination should be considered as alarm and not as joy.

Something is wrong not with Germans but with DR.

No, Germans do not travel less now. Unlike many DR1 members I travel alot. And after my recent trips to Egypt and Turkey I must say that I am impressed.

You can see miles and miles of brand new hotels and resorts in Belek, Sharm-el-Sheih, Tunisia, Hurgada. Of excellent quality and service. Being built and filled by Germans. Being staffed with low paid but nevertheless happy local workers.


Losing Germans is a big mistake of DR (especially former traditionally German North Coast). A short term today`s greedy gain cannot make up for big longer term losses in the future.
 

mountainfrog

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Dec 8, 2003
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Not Only Germans

Unfortunately, in Germany the DR had the reputation of a cheap destination and it obviously was.
Two years ago one could still get return flights for 200 ?.
That attracted low life clientele; some would just come on their dole money. They would sit at bars in the morning, do the red light districts at night, always clad in a tank top revealing their plentiful tatoos. They called the Dominican republic 'domi' and the Dominicans 'domis', sex tourist among them were the norm.

Fortunately this is no longer so.
The carriers have fewer last-minute-offers, due to a wiser occupancy policy; the German 'chopos' became fewer and fewer.
Higher prices lead to higher class...

And that's good (for the country).

m'frog
 
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batich

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Higher prices lead to higher class...



m'frog

With a very high respect I still have some serious reservations regarding this assumption.

So, if tomorrow Casa Marina starts charging not $75 per night but $750 Sosua immediatelly gets flooded with millioneres who would leave $50 US tips at PJ Stakehouse?

If only business solutions were that easy!

But unfortunatelly this is the common way of thinking for the most dominican business people - I WANT MORE MONEY - I INCREASE MY PRICES.
 

mountainfrog

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Dec 8, 2003
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Misunderstanding

... serious reservations regarding this assumption.
It's not an assumption nor a rule for earning more, it's an observation.
Of course higher prices would go along with a better service and higher standards.

So, if tomorrow Casa Marina starts charging not $75 per night but $750 Sosua immediatelly gets flooded with millioneres who would leave $50 US tips at PJ Stakehouse?
If only business solutions were that easy!
Little logic in that...

m'frog
 

Ken

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Jan 1, 2002
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Unfortunately, in Germany the DR had the reputation of a cheap destination and it obviously was.
Two years ago one could still get return flights for 200 ?.
That attracted low life clientele; some would just come on their dole money. They would sit at bars in the morning, do the red light districts at night, always clad in a tank top revealing their plentiful tatoos. They called the Dominican republic 'domi' and the Dominicans 'domis', sex tourist among them were the norm.

Fortunately this is no longer so.

I agree. I was here when the Germans were coming to the North Coast and I worked in a hotel that had a lot of them. The loss of the type of German you describe, and that was the majority of them on the north coast, is not a loss to the DR.

I am speaking only about the Germans on the North Coast. If the professionals/ managers that were going to the south coast no longer do, then I would consider that a loss.

Seeing over-weight Germans with their bellies and boobs hanging out of their too-tight bathing suits and shorts on the main street is fortunately, no longer a common sight.
 
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batich

Guest
Seeing over-weight Germans with their bellies and boobs hanging out of their too-tight bathing suits and shorts on the main street is fortunately, no longer a common sight.

So , to your like you prefer those new " higher -class faces" with gold chains that we can see now in "Europa", "Las Terrazas", "Barba Negra"?

Well, well...
 

Ken

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Jan 1, 2002
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So , to your like you prefer those new " higher -class faces" with gold chains that we can see now in "Europa", "Las Terrazas", "Barba Negra"?

Well, well...

With all due respect, Batich, do you dream up these snappy retorts when you are sitting around playing pocket pool?
 

manunut

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Nov 17, 2006
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Has the DR changed that much in 7 years? Have people suddenly decided to become rude and throw garbage out the window in the last 7 years?

Cocaine/crack was big in the 80/90s. Is the correlation perhaps that the Dominicans from New York are getting out of prison and in the last 7 years they have been deported and are the cause???? I'm not seeing it.

I'm not seeing how a country has become ruder in 7 years. Maybe over 30 years but not 7.

There has to be other reasons why Germans aren't coming. Maybe the economy is not doing that well in Germany and they aren't travelling as much???? I don't know that much about Germany.

Maybe the putas aren't as cheap and "naive" as they used to be???
?the putas?certainly not as competivley priced as before when 80% sold their bodies for the sex alone.
in the last 5-7 years as far as i can see and hear from the putas is that 80% are more intrested in robbing whatever they can from you rather than honestly making their dough from the sex.
?naive?yes they still are ,MORE SO THAN EVER.in germany and lots of europe you can get laid for the same price as in most parts of the dr.
pm me if you would like exact details.
and yes i know you can ?if you wish? pay big bucks too in europeor the states-canada for that matter.
cristal in porta plata you can do the same and in various other joints here too.
in all acts of buisness dominicans are the gold medalists of cutting their own throats financially in numerous ?buisness?s.
dont think that the drop of arouNd 50% were the sex tourists either.it would be rather ?naive?of you to think that.
asia has allways been an option and still is for fairly priced putas.
and not greedy sour faced theives like you get so much of here ?these days?.
my guess is that the germans have become fissed off with the crap service all around,the dirt,noise and the increse in prices ?a la value for money?.
the place may not be ruder in the last 7 years,but it is CERTAINLY a greedier socitey than before.
but so many people live in ?ivory towers?here they probably havent noticed.
or dont want to,and feel its the same beutifull ?paradise?with its simple allways smiling allways happy welcoming people.
Give me a break!
oh and,auf weiderseine,but i dont think so to all the germans who have gone to travel greener pastures.