Health reform is needed

suarezn

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Unfortunately there's a huge chasm between the service offered by public hospitals and private clinics. If you have the money you can get very good care at places such as Hospiten, but if you're really poor then you could easily be left to die over a simple illness.

I've heard of patients not being allowed to leave the clinic until the debt is settled, but never heard of clinics not accepting patients for not having the money up front. I'm sure it happens...

Shalena is correct to extent that lack of money doesn't excuse the treatment of patients. The problem is deeper than money and resources. For instance when my sister was an intern in "El Morgan" one of those investigative programs went there to investigate what kind of care patients were getting and she spoke up about the bad situation. Long story short after the camera left she was threatened that she would be expelled from the program (losing everything she had worked for) if she said anything else and the hospital director even went as far as to say to her that "All heroes are dead"...clearly a veiled threat to just shut up. So you can see how doctors are indoctrinated to just accept it and of course after seeing so many of these cases they get jaded to the point where patients in public hospitals are almost just like another object in a never ending assembly line of misery.

Bottom line if you can afford it, get health insurance and have some money saved just in case so you and your loved ones can go to a private clinic when/if the need arises.
 

SKing

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Nov 22, 2007
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Sking... growing up that's exactly how I remember the people talking about how women deliver their babies in DR, how they make fun of the women saying something like "shut up, you didn't complain when you made that baby". I know is sad, I don't know how anybody can see a human being suffering and be so cold. The culture is all mess up. I really appreciate what you are doing there. As I said, maybe when my mind is in a better place I'll be able to help.
Thank you. You will be in a better place soon, just take it one day at a time.

SHALENA
 

dv8

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Sep 27, 2006
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in my good old country in order to start a medical school one takes several exams: polish, a foreign language of choice, biology, chemistry, physics and math. the exam is there to separate the first wave of the wannabe doctors, there are at least 10 candidates for each available place. in DR one enters directly from the street. no wonder some doctors hardly have any wits about them. but that is not the worst problem of healthcare in DR. the worst is that all patients are treated like medio polvo. well, majority probably is quite stupid but for f**ck's sake, i wanna see a doctor explaining at least what medicine is prescribed and for what...
i guess they grow tired of saying that because people do not listen, do not remember and do not care. you won't believe a number of folks who are 100% convinced that ampicilina is for pain, because that's what their neighbour told them. whatever i say to them in the pharmacy does not enter the brain at all...

in any case, the major falta here is education, not money. education of the staff that is one but also some basic education of general public so they can at least be able to READ what the prescription says.

i never had the "pleaure" of visiting a public hospital and i hope i never will. i got the insurance as soon as i arrived. but i know people who have been treated in public hospitals and they are fine. yes, the hospitals lack funds but i do not think there is a doctor in this world who wants their patient to die. majority of doctors who have a private practice do some public work: one of miesposo's tias who is a renown plastic surgeon charging an arm and leg for each operation (not literally, right?) devouts part of her time to perform free surgeries too.
 

GioMed

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Sorry for the OPs lost. I must say that instead of turning your back on the DR health system
you might be better served, bringing to light these problems, did you know that 6 out of 10
births at public hospitals are haitian ladies that cross the border to give birth? (Washington Post).

While your father (may he rest in peace) paid outrageous taxes, his money is used to take care of
citizens of another sovereign nation that have added nothing to the coffer.
 
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SKing

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Nov 22, 2007
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Please if you have a weak stomach do not look at the slideshow. Please do not look at it and then complain that the pictures were too graphic for you. I could not just post the pics so I put them in the slidshow. This is from 5 months ago. Two of the Midwives that I am starting the Birthing Center with were there in Santiago....THIS is why I get upseT when I read expats encouraging naive new expats to send their wives to public hospitals for Births. As I said before, these docs work hard, and although they could use a bit of brushing up on some techniques....look at what they have to work with. Would you want to have your baby there?
Please, any of you that find this appalling, please refer to this thread when the next unsuspecting expat Mom is asking about where to deliver her baby and you read someone directing her to a public hospital because it "only cost 1500rd"

SHALENA

Public Hospital Dominican Republic - May 2011 | Roxio PhotoShow
 

whiddons

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This in DR1 News Section
Professional students get to stay on in UASD

The rector of the UASD, Mateo Aquino Febrillet has set his conditions for expelling students with poor academic scores, as reported in El Caribe. The UASD has been in the spotlight since a professional student who has spent 21 years "studying" medicine at the university was elected leader of a prominent student union.

Rector Mateo Aquino Febrillet said he would implement the university rulings for minimum yield requirements once the government has provided the funds for sufficient teachers and classrooms to improve the academic standards at the university.

Meanwhile, Minister of Higher Education Ligia Amada Melo believes the UASD should do more in the name of quality education. She said that the UASD needed to find strategies to accelerate the graduation process. El Caribe reported yesterday that at present, the UASD is registering 33,000 every year but only 7,000 are graduating.
 

Criss Colon

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After watching Salena's slideshow,........................................ ...........

I can only say that the hospital shown is better than most I HAVE VISITED HERE!
I was being wheeled into the OR here one time,and was asked for 30,000 pesos in advance,and I have health insurance!
I had to "loan" my brother-in-law 2,000 pesos so the hospital would release the dead body of his baby.
I have seen doctor in the surgical ICU examine an infected patient's wound,then walk to the next patient to examine their surgical site.
Hospital infections are a huge problem in the "First World".So you think you want to go to the hospital here?
I am not talking about the public hospitals,I am talking about the best hospitals in the country!
They don't know sterile technique! They don't even know hand washing.It's like Lister and Pasture never existed!
iN THE DR patients don't survive because of what the doctors do,patients survive inspite of what the doctors do!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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Please if you have a weak stomach do not look at the slideshow. Please do not look at it and then complain that the pictures were too graphic for you. I could not just post the pics so I put them in the slidshow. This is from 5 months ago. Two of the Midwives that I am starting the Birthing Center with were there in Santiago....THIS is why I get upseT when I read expats encouraging naive new expats to send their wives to public hospitals for Births. As I said before, these docs work hard, and although they could use a bit of brushing up on some techniques....look at what they have to work with. Would you want to have your baby there?
Please, any of you that find this appalling, please refer to this thread when the next unsuspecting expat Mom is asking about where to deliver her baby and you read someone directing her to a public hospital because it "only cost 1500rd"

SHALENA

Public Hospital Dominican Republic - May 2011 | Roxio PhotoShow

Shalena maybe you ought to read your first post and maybe take a class in English because there was nothing but criticism on your part.

I also don't have an issue with the fact that the hospitals are poorly funded, equipped and that the staffers are poorly paid.

My issue is your blatant assumption that they ALL don't care based on your limited observations.

I also never recommended any expat should go there only stated my experience.

Finally, it would really be nice if you read my posts as opposed to making foolish assumptions.
 

Matilda

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Sep 13, 2006
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When I was shot I was eventually taken to the ER at one of the best hospitals here - Plaza de la Salud. It was 3am, I wasn't breathing, I was being bagged with oxygen, and I had insurance. My husband had to find 30,000 pesos deposit before they would let me into the ER. Luckily he had a bank card, luckily there was a cashpoint machine right there. There but for the grace of a piece of plastic.

Matilda
 

bob saunders

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Jan 1, 2002
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I can only say that the hospital shown is better than most I HAVE VISITED HERE!
I was being wheeled into the OR here one time,and was asked for 30,000 pesos in advance,and I have health insurance!
I had to "loan" my brother-in-law 2,000 pesos so the hospital would release the dead body of his baby.
I have seen doctor in the surgical ICU examine an infected patient's wound,then walk to the next patient to examine their surgical site.
Hospital infections are a huge problem in the "First World".So you think you want to go to the hospital here?
I am not talking about the public hospitals,I am talking about the best hospitals in the country!
They don't know sterile technique! They don't even know hand washing.It's like Lister and Pasture never existed!
iN THE DR patients don't survive because of what the doctors do,patients survive inspite of what the doctors do!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

It beats the two public hospitals I've visited in Cuba. I have only been in the lobby area of the hospital in Jarabacoa so can't comment. I have been in a small private clinic in Jarabacoa where I took a a young girl whose was have an epileptic fit. I was just walking by a house when she went down and her eyes rolled back and she started shaking. All her brothers....etc were all drunk. She had just woke up, stepped outside and collapsed. My wife phone a taxi, and we bundled her in and off we went, no family members. My wife knew the mother, who was in Santo Domingo. The doctor and nurse were both very professional and the clinic was clean. We paid the clinic, I believe it was around 1200 pesos- over night stay and monitoring. My wife was able to get in contact with her mother and calm the girl down as she came out of the seizure. My wife was repaid the next day when the girls' mother arrived from the capital.
 

SKing

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Nov 22, 2007
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Shalena maybe you ought to read your first post and maybe take a class in English because there was nothing but criticism on your part.

I also don't have an issue with the fact that the hospitals are poorly funded, equipped and that the staffers are poorly paid.

My issue is your blatant assumption that they ALL don't care based on your limited observations.

I also never recommended any expat should go there only stated my experience.

Finally, it would really be nice if you read my posts as opposed to making foolish assumptions.



Dear everyone that can read and comprehend English....this was my first post in this thread. Those who have a college education please point out to me the "nothing but crtisicm" part.


So sorry to hear about your father. The situation of healthcare in the country is the giant elephant in the room that noone talks about. Money rules, sad to say, and my country United States, is at the total other end of the pole....don't get me started on that.

My deepest condolences

SHALENA

Dear Everyone again that can read and comprehend English, here is my second post. Please point out to me where I state or make an assumption that none of the Doctors care. In addition to that, I will put in bold print some of my statements that suggest otherwise. Statments that showed that I understood how pressed they are....

Chip has a family member who works in a public hospital so his narratives are somewhat scewed. There are some staff in public hospitals who give very good treatment this is true. They are severely understaffed and under equipped. Rarely do they have the supplies to do the task at hand and are sometimes not pais for a month or two.
All of this however is no excuse for the lack of human caring and abundance of ignorance even when presented with truth. I spent a week sleeping on the floor in Cabral y Baez with my son's 80 something year old great-grandmother when her husband was dying. The family wanted me there as I am a nurse in the US. The docs were super nice to me but other staff seemed angry and bitter. The resident doc came in to put a catheter in his penis for urine collection. We had bought the supplies. I had purchased sterilized gloves, yet this physician took a pair of gloves out of his pocket. I stopped him, telling him that I had sterilized gloves for him (in the US, placing a urinary catheter is a sterile procedure). He told me, "I have my own. No problem" and I had to put my hand on his and say "Yes, problem". I explained to him that the bladder is sterile and that that is where his catheter would end up, and placing a catheter without sterilized technique could cause a serious infection in this already immuno-suppressed 90 year old.
( I dis not use the words technique or suppressed because I don't know those words in Spanish but I explained it the best I could). He accepted this and was very nice and used the sterile gloves, I had to stop him again to clean the head of the penis before sticking the catheter in. This person is probably already a doc now on his own.
That is not the worse part. Not even 2 hours later he had to pit a catheter in another elderly patient in the room and did NOTHING that I had explained to him before. NOTHING
Not having supplies or being understaffed is no use for ignorance and bad treatment. Your father should've been treated immediately or at least with your promise of payment. The caring has gone. One of my midwife instructors spent 2 weeks in Santiago public hospital with a group of 7 Midwives and students. The docs lived them because they had an ease up on their workload but twice the group had to leave early due to done if the students not being able to handle the treatment of the women. Some were slapped when they were out of control with pain. They are on sheetless beds left alone except for every 2 hours a doc cones around with at least 5 others (residents and med students) and opens their legs forcefully, checking their cervixes in front of 8 other women and the 5 men standing there, talking about them like they aren't there, ignoring their cries for help, closing their legs and moving on to the next one not even washing their hands in between. They saw a Haitian deliver a stillbirth in a bathroom, the hospital staff took her baby away and left her on the floor in blood and feces. While the Midwives prayed over her, the staff then returned with a wheelchair and took her to a room with a metal table, had her climb up bleeding and in pain and proceeded to tug on her placenta, one of the midwife students said that not one staff person said a word to the patient and she looked like a deer in headlights.
Nothing
Nothing
Nothing is an excuse for this type of treatment.

We cannot say anything, we sign forms for our Midwife students that state that we understand that we are not there to judge the hospital staff and we are not there to change their ways of doing things, we are there to be a blessing to the patients. And we do not need to make enemies of these doctors.

But when will ONE doctor stand up and say that this is wrong. When will 1 treat a patient with compassion, as a human and not a disease. When will 1 doctor hold a scared woman's hand? I have had patients that I hope to never see again in my life! Patients that have left me seething with anger, yet they never knew.

Sad part is....that is the DR....until sine people in power change, nothing will. And I wouldn't hold my breath for it

Chip, I am not a school teacher, nor a professor. Please refer to the "PRIVATE SCHOOLS" thread if there are some more classes that you need to take. I do not take offense to your post only because it is your post....I take offense to the fact that this is an INFORMATIVE site for people who live, want to live, are going to live, or just love the DR in general. And YOU and others on here telling unsuspecting, naive expats, that they should go to public hospitals makes me livid. L-I-V-I-D. Don't get mad now because you actually get to SEE what I am saying instead of reading it....don't get mad beuse you look like an idiot that sent his wife to hve surgery at a hospital whose OR cabinets barely hold more than a few sterile gloves.
YES, PEOPLE, THAT WASTHE HOSPITAL CHIP SO GLOWINGLY RECOMMENDS AS GOOD ENOUGH FOR HIM AND HIS FAMILY. WATCHMY SLIDESHOW AND MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICE.
Keep listening to people on here and you'll get yoursel killed.
never said the Docs were all bad....but who teaches them? #1 killer of Women in childbirth inthe Dominican Republic??? INFECTION!!!!
What is the #1 way to prevent infection....HANDWASHING!!
Yet, people on this site recommend these hospitals to others who have no idea....shame on you. DOMINICANSDON'T EVEN RECOMMEND THESE HOSPITALS, THEY GO THERE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO CHOICE! THEY TAKE THEIR CHANCES!
Please YouTube "Cabral y Baez", Chip's precious family hospital....my slideshow looks like an episode of the Smurfs compared to whats on there, and they're ALL DOMINICANS POSTING

The End

SHALENA


Criss......I deserve una fria, no curses
 

SKing

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Nov 22, 2007
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When I was shot I was eventually taken to the ER at one of the best hospitals here - Plaza de la Salud. It was 3am, I wasn't breathing, I was being bagged with oxygen, and I had insurance. My husband had to find 30,000 pesos deposit before they would let me into the ER. Luckily he had a bank card, luckily there was a cashpoint machine right there. There but for the grace of a piece of plastic.

Matilda

I didn't mean that I liked that you wereshot. I just liked that you are telling the truth....Thank you.

SHALENA
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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My mistake, it was you second post I was referring too

With regard to the following comment of your bolded below:

Dear Everyone again that can read and comprehend English, here is my second post. Please point out to me where I state or make an assumption that none of the Doctors care. In addition to that, I will put in bold print some of my statements that suggest otherwise. Statments that showed that I understood how pressed they are....

Here is your own response:

But when will ONE doctor stand up and say that this is wrong. When will 1 treat a patient with compassion, as a human and not a disease.

From what I remember in English class the opposite of one as used in the context above is none. Thank you for the clarification.
 

dv8

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Sep 27, 2006
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i thought it was much worse, the slideshow was no so bad. blood and death are part of all hospitals everywhere, we just do not get to see that much of it as it is quickly removed from our view.
i only have one thing to say, boy, having a child sucks big time. it's a miracle that women do it all the time, and willingly to top that! :)
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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Santiago
I talked to my sister in law who worked in the maternity ward in the Jose Maria Cabral hospital for three years and she says their are good and bad doctors and nurses just like there are good and bad people in life but that from what she has seen most try to be professional and as sensitive as possible to the patients condition.

With regard to the treatment of women in the maternity ward, she says the doctors will yell at the mothers to motivate them to push in order to give birth because it is understood that if the child remains too long that they can be hurt.
 

SKing

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Nov 22, 2007
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i thought it was much worse, the slideshow was no so bad. blood and death are part of all hospitals everywhere, we just do not get to see that much of it as it is quickly removed from our view.
i only have one thing to say, boy, having a child sucks big time. it's a miracle that women do it all the time, and willingly to top that! :)

Yes blood and death are part of hospitals everywhere but ill tell you what's not....
-Gaps you can fit your hand through on xray door entrances (there was one on the bottom too that the pic didn't show)
-Women delivering on trash bags and little else
-C-section wounds being cleaned with water that's been sitting stagnant in bleach bottles
-Maggots under stretcher mattresses (youtube: hospital Cabral y Baez)
-etc, etc, etc

So some of these expats who think that they and their family are well due to the quality of care that they received, I would say they have some kissing up to do to the man upstairs because it is only by his grace that they are doing well.
That is my point and seeing that this is either my 5th or 6th post on the subject and I can hear Dr. McDonald's voice telling me to let the idiots be idiots, I shall retire. But it is sad to see how little people think of their own "loved" ones....

SHALENA